Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I know all the candidates parade their families - but how come you don't see the men portaying themselves as 'a hockey dad' ? Possibly cos it has bugger all to do with their competence to manage government ?
-------------------- All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
The Torygraph's headline is "Palin stays cool whilst Obama skates in thin ice". Not to be outdone, Mad Mel is now claiming that Obama is a Marxist revolutionary.
You cannot hope to bribe or twist, thank God, the British jouralist. But seeing what the man will do unbribed, there's no occasion to.
-------------------- How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Despite the 8 year track record, will "folksy" win again? It seems like a powerful appeal to some very deep American instincts. Given the current levels of Palinmania, it looks to be hard to get back to any form of serious evaluation. Which is bad news for Obama.
-------------------- Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Barnabas62: Despite the 8 year track record, will "folksy" win again? It seems like a powerful appeal to some very deep American instincts. Given the current levels of Palinmania, it looks to be hard to get back to any form of serious evaluation. Which is bad news for Obama.
IME folksy is occasionally misunderestimated.
I predict a new word:
Palinize
v. To select a running mate which hoists your political opponent on their own petard.
You heard it here first.
(I'm beginning to understand why so many people nearly worship me: genius AND humility is a rare combination.)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Barnabas62: Despite the 8 year track record, will "folksy" win again? It seems like a powerful appeal to some very deep American instincts. Given the current levels of Palinmania, it looks to be hard to get back to any form of serious evaluation. Which is bad news for Obama.
The object of the exercise is to 'energise the base' as they say. So the theory is that the religious right who might otherwise have stayed in to do their collective hair on election day will all turn out to elect someone from the 'Let's Start A Shooting War In The Middle East In Order To Bring About The Rapture' wing of Penteostalism.
The other advantages that Palin brings are firstly that she can possibly win over the Bovine Spongiform wing of feminism (All political movements have their bovine spongiform wings, deal with it) and secondly that she is new and shiny and therefore trumps Obama's newness and shininess - let's face it, Obamamaia is so January.
Now I think the whole energising the base bit is going to work. There is a chance that the people who voted for Huckabee on economic populist grounds might decide Obama is preferable to the man with more houses than he can count but these people have been voting against their economic interests for so long it would be rash to assume that it is likely. The Republicans were always going to do something about that and the Obama campaign is presumably organised on that basis. The bovine spongiform tendency may materialise but if Hilarity has a good old pop at Palin for letting down the sisterhood it should dissipate swiftly.
It's the new and shiny bit that is worrying. I mean Obama can't exactly say: "So what if she's a hockey mum, do you want a hockey mum or the former president of Harvard Law review making those difficult decisions about peace in the Middle East" because that would be elitist. His main ally is time. She'll be a sight less appealing in November once she's been on TV every day and made the obligatory gaffe in the debates. My guess is that if he keeps his nerve and doesn't shoot until he sees the whites of their eyes he'll be OK but I don't claim to be prescient about these sorts of things.
-------------------- How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
Ms Palin reminds me of Oz's very own Pauline Hanson and her One Nation party, populist extraordinaire, and a slightly less fecund and rather less educated (left school at 15 and ran a fish and chips joint in a very unglam outpost of Brisbane-mind you probably at the same level of ignorance) version of la Palin, without the born-again rootin-tootin hokum.
Pauline had a few pollies worried but at the end of the day she was just a flash in the pan...at least she didn't push the pro-life bulldust. Here in Oz the holy rollers tend to be treated with the scepticism which they deserve, Deo gratias.
m
-------------------- quod scripsi, scripsi
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mamacita
 Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gildas (italics mine): There is a chance that the people who voted for Huckabee on economic populist grounds might decide Obama is preferable to the man with more houses than he can count but these people have been voting against their economic interests for so long it would be rash to assume that it is likely.
And that is the sheer, malicious genius of their strategy. Bring back the Culture Wars and create pseudo-issues like the "lipstick on a pig" idiocy (which all the media, even Fox News, finally jumped on as lunacy yesterday) and take peoples' minds off the real ones, particularly the economy. It's dangerous as hell.
quote: I mean Obama can't exactly say: "So what if she's a hockey mum, do you want a hockey mum or the former president of Harvard Law review making those difficult decisions about peace in the Middle East" because that would be elitist.
Close. The real comparison is "Do you want the former president of Harvard Law Review or someone who admits he was fifth from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy. Of course that would also be elitist and, in the current environment, downright sacriligious, what with the Right ready to not just elect McCain but to canonize him as well. The real trick for the Democrats is to expose Palin's weaknesses while at the same time keep the race as Obama vs McCain, not Obama vs Palin. [ 11. September 2008, 15:01: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
-------------------- Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mjg: I predict a new word:
Palinize
v. To select a running mate which hoists your political opponent on their own petard.
You heard it here first.
(I'm beginning to understand why so many people nearly worship me: genius AND humility is a rare combination.)
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
-------------------- Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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mousethief
 Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mamacita: Bring back the Culture Wars and create pseudo-issues like the "lipstick on a pig" idiocy (which all the media, even Fox News, finally jumped on as lunacy yesterday) and take peoples' minds off the real ones, particularly the economy. It's dangerous as hell.
Maybe Obama should just bring back "It's the Economy, Stupid."
On the pig thing: I listened to All Things Considered on the way home last night, something I nearly never do (there were absolutely no good songs on my music stations and I couldn't keep my mind on my CD-based French lessons), and they actually talked to a farmer while he went out into a field and put lipstick on a pig to see if it stayed a pig. It did. It was hilarious. (They assured us that no pigs were injured in the production of the story, although the pig in question did seem offended at the waste of its time.)
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mjg: IME folksy is occasionally misunderestimated.
Yes, as Al Franken remarked, "misunderestimated" means we underestimate for the wrong reasons. In Bush's case, we underestimated him because he is an idiot. We should have underestimated him on account of his contempt for the constitution.
quote: (I'm beginning to understand why so many people nearly worship me: genius AND humility is a rare combination.)
You were saying?
quote: Clinton/Obama lose by two percentage points to Guiliani/Huckabee.
Guiliani's proven administrative prowess wins him the nomination and Huckabee's appeal to southern/conservative voters wins him the south and rural areas generally.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Choirboy: You were saying?
You'll remember of course I made some qualification.
But my latest was McCain by 3% assuming the electoral college would sort itself out.
We'll see, and I'm willing to point out how wrong I am.
(I'm still pissed about Bob Barr though: we ought be able to do better.)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mousethief: On the pig thing: I listened to All Things Considered on the way home last night, something I nearly never do (there were absolutely no good songs on my music stations and I couldn't keep my mind on my CD-based French lessons), and they actually talked to a farmer while he went out into a field and put lipstick on a pig to see if it stayed a pig. It did. It was hilarious. (They assured us that no pigs were injured in the production of the story, although the pig in question did seem offended at the waste of its time.)
Did they at least give the pig in question a selection of colors from which to choose?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
People are a little obsessed with the impact of military service. At the risk of invoking Godwin's law ...
Hitler was at one point a brave man - he fought for his country in World War 1 and was awarded the Iron Cross for valour. This did not make him a good man, or the right choice of leader.
(I don't if he was ever a POW but given Germany lost that war its highly likely.)
It is as if one virtue is touted as a proxy for all virtues. [ 11. September 2008, 17:13: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
-------------------- All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Doublethink:
It is as if one virtue is touted as a proxy for all virtues.
No, it's just rare for a politician to be able to establish that he has any virtue...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Doublethink: It is as if one virtue is touted as a proxy for all virtues.
Which has been a dramatic device since when--Aeschylus?
This leads me to believe it is a human trait rather than a purely political one.
-------------------- How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Josephine
 Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
I've become addicted to FactCheck.org, and I'm wondering ....
Why aren't the major news organizations doing a regular FactCheck feature in their coverage of the campaigns? I understand why the right-wing cable-news pundits and talkshow hosts don't. The Rush Limbaughs of the world don't care about facts. They just care about ratings and profits.
But isn't there anyone left anywhere who cares about facts?
-------------------- I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Josephine:
But isn't there anyone left anywhere who cares about facts?
Well, thanks to your link posted earlier, I've been checking with some frequency for which I thank you. So, yes, I care...
I know NPR (eek! Liberal Media Headquarters!) has been doing just that as well.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Our local ABC tv station also consults FactCheck.
-------------------- Blessed Gator, pray for us! --"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon") --"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Josephine: The Rush Limbaughs of the world don't care about facts. They just care about ratings and profits.
What a remarkable person you must be to be able to discern the mind of Rush Limbaugh.
quote: But isn't there anyone left anywhere who cares about facts?
Apparently not: you tell us what we need to do care about facts.
Please?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
 Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mjg: tell us what we need to do care about facts.
Stop lying? Just a thought.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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RuthW
 liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Josephine: Why aren't the major news organizations doing a regular FactCheck feature in their coverage of the campaigns?
I don't know how much it would matter if they did. Fewer and fewer people get their news from major news organizations. And those that do don't necessarily trust what they read/hear.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Pigwidgeon
 Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
I read it on the Internet, so I know it's true. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
-------------------- "...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe." ~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
I feel the same, Pidwidgeon. Why, just the other day I came across this interesting photo of Sarah Palin. I was shocked to discover she actually owns a Crosman BB gun and would advertise the fact. I always assumed she was the guts-in-the-teeth, assault-rifle type. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
...and if I'm not mistaken, that guy behind her is smoking a cigarette and drinking Shlitz from a can. McCain has lost my vote, fer shure.
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gort: I feel the same, Pidwidgeon. Why, just the other day I came across this interesting photo of Sarah Palin. I was shocked to discover she actually owns a Crosman BB gun and would advertise the fact. I always assumed she was the guts-in-the-teeth, assault-rifle type.
You do know that's fake, eh?
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Excuse me? I found it on the internet, The Atheist. I would appreciate it if you didn't cast aspersions on my source.
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gort: Excuse me? I found it on the internet, The Atheist. I would appreciate it if you didn't cast aspersions on my source.
Ok.
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Look, The Atheist, Huffington Post is a liberal, left-wing merchant for the Obama crowd. You would do well to take their criticism with a grain of salt. I have seen the picture of Palin. What more evidence do you need?
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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mousethief
 Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Are those some patriotic AMERICAN hooters or what? I just may change my vote. Hoooooweeee!
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Damned straight, MT, and they're supported by the good ole red, white and blue. I just can't get my mind around Sarah brandishing such a wimpy-assed weapon.
Don't try to tell me she drops a moose with that kiddy-toy. Typical Republicans, all sweet talk until it comes time for rubber to hit the road, then it's "Sorry, babe! I have to be home by 10pm to get rest for choir practice in the morning."
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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Rossweisse
 High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gort: ...I just can't get my mind around Sarah brandishing such a wimpy-assed weapon. ...
It's all part of having the right weapon for the prey at hand.
That particular weapon is for dropping pencil-necked NPR types. For moose, I'm sure she uses something more along the lines of a 30/06.
Ross
-------------------- I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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mousethief
 Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Rossweisse: That particular weapon is for dropping pencil-necked NPR types.
You're on drugs. Have you SEEN Garrison Keillor's neck?
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Rossweisse: For moose, I'm sure she uses something more along the lines of a 30/06.
From the link: quote: Purchasing the proper equipment is a crucial aspect so you must take it into consideration before you start your hunting adventure. For moose hunting, rifles are the best choice but for fun, some hunters use a simple handgun.
A simple handgun for "fun"? Heh. Reminds me of the time a couple young summer adventurers arrived at our Haines Airways, AK. office from outside. They were seeking information regarding bush pilot rides into the mountains for some hiking. As I sat in the ragged lounge sofa and looked on, our Kiwi dispatcher asked the intrepid explorers if they were prepared to defend themselves against any Brownies (Grizzlies) they might encounter.
One enthusiastic, fresh-faced hiker responded confidently, "Yes. I've packed a 9mm pistol.".
Phil, in his low-keyed New Zealand accent inquired, "Oh? Have you filed the sights off of it?"
Intrepid explorer responds, "What do you mean? Why do I need to do that?"
Phil replies matter-of-factly, "So it doesn't hurt so much when that Brownie shoves it up your ass."
< Hyuk!>
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Josephine: isn't there anyone left anywhere who cares about facts?
Apparently this book examines this question. As one reviewer writes:
quote: Grounded in history and science, True Enough paints a dismal picture of a species with a limitless capacity for self-deception and selective reasoning. But Manjoo doesn't ascribe the rise of truthiness to fragmented media alone: he calls out PR firms, media outlets and others who have profited from the erosion of the truth.
-------------------- Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
After watching Se. Palin's first interview, I am even more frightened at even the most remote prospect of her becoing President.
She was truthful at least in claimsing to be "wired", especially in the sense of being overstimulated. Poor Charlie finally had to admit frustration with her "barrage of words" - "Yes, but...No,but...Yes,but..No,but........".
If she meant "wired" in the sense of conductivity, the electrician did a grossly substandard job. Her answers were vague, discursive, contradictory, simplistic, and irrelevant.
I have always considered Mr. Gibson to be quite fair and definitely a gentleman. He posed some very tough questions to Sen. Obama in the primary debates.
I feared that Mr. Gibson would be overly soft on Sen. Palin. As it turned out, I feel that he was quite fair throughout and that he was initially on the genntle side. I think, though, that his patience was quickly pushed to the limit by Sen. Palin's boldface arrogance crowned with her astonishing ignorance.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
On the other hand, I was fairly impressed with Sen. McCain during the 9/11 forum at Columbia University. He handled the questions well and in genreral sounded like a middle-of-the-road Democrat. If I were unaware of his stated stands on most of the specifics, I might have viewed him more favorably in the abstract.
However, in my opinion, he was no match when it came to the vision, understanding, and inspiration that so infused Sen. Obama's answers, which although eloquent, derived their impact instead from the power of their content.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by CorgiGreta: After watching Se. Palin's first interview, I am even more frightened at even the most remote prospect of her becoing President.
Her answers were vague, discursive, contradictory, simplistic, and irrelevant.
I think, though, that his patience was quickly pushed to the limit by Sen. Palin's boldface arrogance crowned with her astonishing ignorance.
So she is Presidential material (we all know what material that is)...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
My favorite part was not that she didn't generally answer the questions asked (that's the first rule of politics, and elegantly laid out in one of my favorite Yes, Prime Minister episodes), but that she suggested we might need to go to war with Russia over Georgia. Now that's some wild-ass stuff.
Also, she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was and Charlie had to tell her so she could answer the question. So much for foreign policy capability.
It's so laughable that we're even having this stupid conversation.
By the way, re: voting against your own interests, Jonathan Haidt has a lot of interest to say on why people vote Republican. According to his hypothesis, Democrats fail to get this at their peril. But Gail Collins says Dems need to calm down. It'll be okay.
From Yes, Prime Minister: (PM to Bernard) If this question should ever arise again, this is how you deal with questions:
If you have nothing to say, say nothing. Better still, have something to say and say it, no matter what they ask. Pay no attention to the question. Just make your own statement.
If they ask the question again, you say, "That's not the question" or "I think the real question is..." and then you make another statement of. your. own..
-------------------- Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Laura: ........elegantly laid out in one of my favorite Yes, Prime Minister episodes)
One of my favorite shows and one of the funniest ever on television.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: quote: Originally posted by Laura: ........elegantly laid out in one of my favorite Yes, Prime Minister episodes)
One of my favorite shows and one of the funniest ever on television.
And it never gets stale -- ever. The only thing different is the suits and (from a US perspective), YM and YPM are my favorite teaching tools on how parliamentary government works (with, of course, House of Cards shiver)
Re: the popular vote, tho' -- as Gail Collins wrote, that's not the worry at all. Obama's so far very canny team are quite properly focusing on the third of the country (state by state) that they need to win to capture the electoral college. I don't think it will be a landslide, but I think he'll do better than squeak by. Also, the way polling is done misses more and more people -- two large groups being young people who haven't got landlines, people who screen calls with caller ID and never answer unless they recognize the number (me and practically everyone I know). I've read that such factors mean that phone polling tends to skew conservative.
-------------------- Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Laura: One of my favorite shows and one of the funniest ever on television.
And it never gets stale -- ever. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I've even got a book with many of the episodes reduced to short stories. It is yellowing now, but it is still by my bed as one of the main go to resources for cheering myself up!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
One thing that I really don't understand is the criticism of Gov. Palin for not having enough experience to be Vice President. It seems to me that she has just as much experience (and maybe more) as Obama and he's the Democratic candidate for President, not Vice President.
In criticizing her the Democrats are criticizing their own candidate. What gives?
(Edited for spelling. criticism but criticizing. Why the change from s to z?) [ 12. September 2008, 14:26: Message edited by: New Yorker ]
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: One thing that I really don't understand is the criticism of Gov. Palin for not having enough experience to be Vice President. It seems to me that she has just as much experience (and maybe more) as Obama and he's the Democratic candidate for President, not Vice President.
In criticizing her the Democrats are criticizing their own candidate. What gives?
I'm sure that this is the slant that McCain was after in choosing this back-woods bumpkin. But it just doesn't wash. Nobody who ran for POTUS, let alone the two final candidates, would have shown the level of ignorance that she displayed in the Gibson interview. I had honestly been willing to assume that she was reasonably within shouting distance of being up to the job. It just isn't true, and any honest viewing of that interview would have to come to the same conclusion. This isn't a judgment call.
The single most important qualification of McCain and Obama is that they were selected by their respective parties after bruising campaigns where the people who care about such things got a chance to thoroughly probe them and see what they're made of.
The thing that makes Biden a good VP pick is that he's had years of experience in national politics -- the VP isn't subjected to the same selection by the people, and so needs to be a more conservative choice than the candidate for POTUS.
Palin really is a joke. Pretend otherwise if you must, but expect to be ridiculed for your willfull partisan blindness. If Palin were the Dem choice, she would be derided by the Republicans as wildly unqualified -- you surely must recognize that. If you want to understand why people are appalled, just imagine that she was selected by a Democrat.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mamacita
 Lakefront liberal
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Laura: Better still, have something to say and say it, no matter what they ask. Pay no attention to the question. Just make your own statement.
If they ask the question again, you say, "That's not the question" or "I think the real question is..." and then you make another statement of. your. own..
In two previous jobs I was sent to media training, and that's *exactly* what they teach you.
-------------------- Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mamacita
 Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: One thing that I really don't understand is the criticism of Gov. Palin for not having enough experience to be Vice President. It seems to me that she has just as much experience (and maybe more) as Obama and he's the Democratic candidate for President, not Vice President.
In criticizing her the Democrats are criticizing their own candidate. What gives?
You might want to check out this Steven Chapman column from yesterday's Chicago Tribune. Chapman is a Libertarian and no liberal. Here is a piece of it, edited for brevity. It's worth reading in its entirety.
quote: Preparation for the presidency requires more than occupying an executive position or spending decades on Capitol Hill. What makes Obama more ready than Palin? The obvious thing is what he's been doing for the last 18 months.
He had to develop and demonstrate a sure grasp of all the issues that present themselves in the Oval Office. He's been grilled about his voting record, his pastor and his convicted former fundraiser. He's campaigned in 48 states and defeated a formidable opponent.. . .
We also know something substantive about Obama's judgment from his early opposition to the Iraq war. Contrary to Palin's claims, he has used his time in the legislature and the Senate to sponsor and pass some useful legislation, such as a tighter congressional ethics bill.
She, on the other hand, has never had to address issues beyond the borders of Alaska.... Until being chosen, she had apparently never set out her views on the Iraq war, and she never spelled out her policies on the most pressing national problems. It's anyone's guess if Palin has any guiding philosophy.
In that same article Chapman also points out that in 2000, Bush had spent only half as much time in elective office as Obama has. [ 12. September 2008, 16:04: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
-------------------- Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
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quote: Originally posted by tclune: I'm sure that this is the slant that McCain was after in choosing this back-woods bumpkin. But it just doesn't wash. Nobody who ran for POTUS, let alone the two final candidates, would have shown the level of ignorance that she displayed in the Gibson interview. I had honestly been willing to assume that she was reasonably within shouting distance of being up to the job. It just isn't true, and any honest viewing of that interview would have to come to the same conclusion. This isn't a judgment call.
The single most important qualification of McCain and Obama is that they were selected by their respective parties after bruising campaigns where the people who care about such things got a chance to thoroughly probe them and see what they're made of.
The thing that makes Biden a good VP pick is that he's had years of experience in national politics -- the VP isn't subjected to the same selection by the people, and so needs to be a more conservative choice than the candidate for POTUS.
Palin really is a joke. Pretend otherwise if you must, but expect to be ridiculed for your willfull partisan blindness. If Palin were the Dem choice, she would be derided by the Republicans as wildly unqualified -- you surely must recognize that. If you want to understand why people are appalled, just imagine that she was selected by a Democrat.
--Tom Clune
So, since Obama went through the campaign, his perceived lack of experience doesn't matter. But since Palin has not yet been through a national campaign her perceived lack of experience does matter? Doesn't this mean that instead of saying she's inexperienced so not qualified, one has to say let's see how she does during the campaign?
Frankly, I thought she was great in the Gibson interview. She didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. So what. Even I couldn't remember til Charlie told her. She gave a good answer in spite of it.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: She didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. So what. Even I couldn't remember til Charlie told her.
One important difference, of course, is that you are not a candidate for Vice President.
-------------------- How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
Obama also got into the Senate (a position of National authority) in a bruising hard-fought campaign and has served there with distinction. Sarah Palin virtually walked into the governorship of a backwater state far easier to govern than say, Texas or California or even Rhode Island (sorry, but it's true) and her time there has been distinguished by nothing to speak of but some pretty embarrassing right-wing whack-job antics (already detailed in this thread). Her mayoralty of a tiny town, where the mayor was primarily a ceremonial role with a council that really ran the show, is not worth bringing up.
Being a community organizer, by the way, is nothing to sneeze at, either. If Sarah Palin had Obama's experience, no republican would be making nasty noises about community organizing and being a senator. I try to be very fair, rigorously so -- I would never say John McCain has no business running for president. I wouldn't even say that about George Bush, though I think he's arguably the worst president we've ever had (and there's some stiff competition for anchorman of the presidency). Sarah Palin has no business being a heartbeat away from the presidency. Indeed, picking her means McCain is not putting country first, as he so likes to claim. This is serious business. I don't care if I connect with someone on a gut level. I want someone who can run this country in time of huge challenge and isn't a screaming right or left-wing freak.
As Jon Stewart said: quote: Doesn't elite mean good? Is that not something we're looking for in a president anymore? The job you're applying for, if you get it, and it goes well, they might carve your head into a mountain. If you don't actually think you are better than us, then what the f@*k are you doing? Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who is embarrassingly superior to me. I want someone who speaks sixteen languages and sleeps two hours a night hanging upside down in a chamber they themselves designed
-------------------- Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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