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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Mousethief: ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Interestingly, today a friend of mine (who technically is a shipmate, though he hasn't posted in quite a few years) e-mailed me that his house was searched the other day by the FBI, and two computers and some data disks were impounded, and his housemate interogated for several hours because she "may have taken some photos at a demonstration that got out of hand earlier this year". I don't know any more details than this, but I'll see if I can convince him to drop by and explain further. Cause it sounded pretty creepy from what he said.
<Shudder>
I am in the middle of "Little Brother" (audio) by Cory Doctorow FREE author's download of the written book here.. It's sciFi/Fact about the government taking over our privacy to "protect and serve" us. Yeah. Right. Even only about 1-hour into the book I recommend it highly, especially to get young people to pay attention to these bastard politicians we have.
I also send kudos to MT.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I heard Cory read from some chapters of that at a con a few months ago. Its very funny. Well worth a look.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
But...But...But...there is a war going on!
And, BTW, we've got this Hessian solider we want to billet in your place. Mind putting him up for awhile? Yeah, he eats a lot but, there is a war going on!
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I suppose it would be a violation of Godwin's Law if I started posting "First they came for..." , huh?
Yeah, thought so.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
But...But...But...there is a war going on!
Is there? When did Congress declare war? On whom?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonablesearches and seizures....
Obviously Congress and the Courts have decided that the wiretapping in this case is not unreasonable.
quote:
It doesn't comply with this:
No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...
Actually holding enemy detainees at Guantanamo does comply with the provision above!
quote:
Or this:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.
Well, these are not criminal prosecutions. These are military courts operating during a time of war. Until recently the protections above were not afforded to enemy combatants. Now, however, with that nasty Supreme Court ruling, we will have to read any enemy soldiers their rights. Just imagine: "Excuse General Rommel. As you can see we've got all these landing craft off of Normandy and we're all ready to invade. First, however, we must tell you that you and all your troops have the right to remain silent..."
[ 24. September 2008, 18:04: Message edited by: New Yorker ]
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
And the Empire strikes again. According to the Washington Post Hope this link works and writer Ellen Nakishima, the Administration has ordered all border crossing agents to examine and, if they wish, to question, seize or copy any papers or electronc devices that ANY person might have in their posession.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
OK, my friend said that he would try to drop by and give a more detailed account of what happened, but probably not before tomorrow night. In the meantime he gave me permission to quote the following from his e-mail:
quote:
I'll have to see if my registration is still any good. I also have to
assume at this point that my cell phone and internet traffic is being
monitored by the Feds. The affadavit attached to the search warrant listed
xxxx's cell number (which is on the same account as mine) as part of the
chain of evidence by which they tracked her down. If they got a warrant to
search the house, a warrant to tap the phones wouldn't be too hard to get
either, and we know that the Justice Department no longer considers warrants
for wiretaps strictly necessary anymore in any event.
He also points out that I should mention that the housemate here identified as xxxx is a freelance journalist.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
...I don't admit that civil rights have been curtailed. Everyone still has the right to vote, etc. All that has happened is that the feds listen in on conversations of bad people.
How do we know? There are no checks and balances.
There is a special court set up to issue warrants for sensitive situations, with provisions for emergency situations (come to court within a specified period after the wiretap to show why you did it). The Bush Administration refuses to use it.
Would you sign a blank credit application when buying a car if the credit manager says "trust me"?
The Republicans keep saying how government isn't to be trusted and needs to be curtailed. Except in this case.
The curtailment of our civil rights can be demonstrated. The constitution requires warrants (protection against unreasonable searchs). The Bush Administration says it won't get the warrants for these wiretaps, even though there is a special court for this purpose.
Fortunately some of us still have state constitutions that are being followed.
The Bush Administration wanted the Washington State Patrol to do random searches of vehicles getting on Washington State Ferries. No reasonable cause would be necessary. This flies directly in the face of our state constitution, with its explicit right to privacy.
The Washington State Ferries response was that they would only be following federal mandate if they had the Washington State Patrol conduct such random searches. There was serious threat of lawsuit over this.
What has come out of this?
The Washington State Patrol now only walks their sniffer dogs up and down the lines of cars occasionally (some places more than others). They may ask you to open your trunk if the dog indicates something may be wrong. If you refuse to allow the search, the captain of the vessel will be informed, and the captain may refuse to let you on the vessel.
Except for going to the San Juan Islands, you do have the choice of driving around Puget Sound (or driving across the Tacoma Narrows Bridges) to get to your destination instead of taking a ferry.
Our civil rights are being protected in Washington State by following our state constitution.
It also has stopped a lot of stupidity.
Conducting random searches only is meaningful on a production line where all the pieces are supposed to be identical. Find one out of tolerance, you stop the line and find out where the problem started, because—chances are—there are now a bunch of items out of spec, not just one.
People getting onto ferries by car or walking are not assembly line items. It wouldn't be hard to imagine a situation where a group would plan to have a car in line "create a disturbance" of some sort to get the attention of the WSP so that someone could just walk on with their bomb. After all, you typically only buy a passenger ticket going one way on most runs (Mukilteo to Clinton on Whidbey Island going across Possession Sound), with the return trip free (Clinton back to Mukilteo). (Car and its driver pay both ways.) There is very little opportunity for screening, because other than the person who says "You can get on now," people walking onto a WSF in Clinton have very little contact with ferry employees; I've done it a few times.
So, the federal (Homeland Security via the Coast Guard) plan to occasionally require random car searches would not have been effective and could have played into someone's plan to distract the attention of the Washington State Patrol.
Just like with avoiding torture of prisoners (because it doesn't work), following the constitution would probably result in better security for us. It sure doesn't help to forget our civil rights.
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
So far it seems to have worked. No major attack since 9/11.
My father, before he retired, was in charge of shark control on the Mississippi River from St. Louis to Clarkston, Missouri.
He must have done a great job because I don't think anyone ever found a shark on that stretch of river the entire time.
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Banding together in groups to accomplish a goal is one thing. Believing that everyone in a certain group should think and vote one way - just because they are a member of that group - is another.
Do you understand what a caucus process is about?
When you see these various Democratic caucuses, it isn't to tell a group how to think. It is to come together to find a set of common goals to work on.
Not everyone in the group will agree on tactics, though.
Generally I consider the Stonewall Democratic Caucus of the Washington State Democrats to be a bunch of wankers (in a figurative manner). It isn't because I disagree with their goals. It is because I disagree with how they want to accomplish their goals.*
There is a big difference.
*I think they unnecessarily create disturbances when a more subtle approach would work better. What are they worried about? Democrats control the legislature and governor's mansion. All creating disturbances does is give the Republicans more red meat. As if equal rights are special rights.
[corrected word]
[ 24. September 2008, 18:27: Message edited by: The Bede's American Successor ]
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
These are military courts operating during a time of war.
What war? Against who? How are the enemy defined or identified? What recourse do you have when the government comes and takes someone from your neighbourhood or workplace or family away and says that they are an "enemy combatant"?
quote:
Until recently the protections above were not afforded to enemy combatants.
That is false. Actually your government afforded far MORE protection to caputured enemy combatants up till a few years ago. History did not start in 1980.
quote:
Now, however, with that nasty Supreme Court ruling, we will have to read any enemy soldiers their rights.
As you always used to.
quote:
Just imagine: "Excuse General Rommel. As you can see we've got all these landing craft off of Normandy and we're all ready to invade. First, however, we must tell you that you and all your troops have the right to remain silent..."
Had Rommel been captured in WW2 and taken to an American (or British) prison camp he WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN TRIED AT ALL. He would have been allowed visits from the Red Cross. He would have been allowed to send and recieve mail (though it would have been censored). He would not have been kept in solitary confinement or tortured (not legally anyway, soldies in the heat of battle get up to odd things, as do prison guards and spies, especially when they think no-one is looking) and he woull have been allowed to answer any interrogation with nothing but name, rank, and number.
AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER some German officers were tried for "crimes against humanity" (which arguably broke the Geneva Convention and was illegal in US law, but that's another matter). They were tried by the UN and in German courrts, not by the US or Britain or France (or China!) acting independently. They were tried in public. They had the right to speak in their own defence, to call witnesses, and to talk to lawyers.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
In fact, don't the Geneva Conventions specify that ALL a captured soldier has to reveal is their name, rank, and serial number?
And wasn't the official justification for not adhearing to the Geneva Conventions in the Iraq and Afganhistan conflicts precisely the point that they _aren't_ wars, and therefore the rules of war don't apply?
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
In fact, I think New Yorker would benefit by reading the text of the third Geneva Convention, which can be found here, to see just what is and isn't permitted by international law.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
MCCAIN UPS THE ANTE!!!
quote:
From NBC's Chuck Todd and Domenico Montanaro
McCain called for Friday's first presidential debate to be postponed, according to prepared remarks released by the campaign. The dates for the debates were set more than 10 months ago by the Commission on Presidential Debates, on Nov. 19, 2007.
From a Senior McCain source:
-- McCain called Obama before he made the statement and told him he was going to suspend his campaign and move back to DC until the economic crisis has been figured out.
-- McCain wants to create "a political free zone" until a deal is reached between now and Monday.
-- McCain also spoke with Bush and urged him to get both sides to work together
Desperation or savvy?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
Desperation or savvy?
Desperation. McCain's crazy, all-over-the-map, fire-the-head-of-SEC performance has resulted in Obama opening up the first substantial lead of the campaign. Tracking polls show Obama ahead by as much as 9% now (not that it will last). McCain has been worried about his performance in the debates all along. He wanted a more chatty, less debatish format because he doesn't feel comfortable in the debate structure.
So this is probably a necessary step for him. He needs to change his approach to get some momentum back, and a bad debate now could end him. But I think that people will scoff at the idea that he will be any "help" in working out a difficult deal between the executive and legislative branches.
The plain fact is that neither McCain nor Obama have any helpful role to play in hammering out this deal other than staying out of the way. Then, they and Biden get to vote on it like the other 97 Senators. So they'll have to go on record as to where they stand on the final product, but otherwise they should keep out of it.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Nobody answered my question. When did congress declare war? Against whom? WE ARE NOT IN A STATE OF WAR.
Unless you want to say that the penumbra of the constitution allows for a war-like state that is not really war. Sort of like the right of privacy. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Well, yeah, Mousethief. Of course we aren't in a state of war. As I pointed out above, if we were, we'd have to abide by the Geneva Conventions, and our prisoners would get a whole heck of a lot better treatment.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
Desperation or savvy?
Time will tell. Meanwhile, send Sarah to debate Barry. That would be fun!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
McCain has the worst record in the Senate for showing up to vote -- I'm sure they can continue to manage without him.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Regarding McCain's proposal, there are some in the Senate who think injecting presidential campaigns into the negotiations on the financial bail-out would be less than helpful.
This is the same Harry Reid who kept saying "we don't know what to do?" What a joke he is.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
My first thought was "That's interesting...". Upon reflection, I don't think it was a wise move.
I have no trouble with considering our economic situation to be important, but the campaign is important too--there are a lot of people waiting for these debates before deciding for whom they will vote. Suspending his campaign for a weekend seems to show he doesn't take the election as seriously as I would hope.
Of course, he could just be totally unprepared for a debate and clutching at straws that will let him postpone it. Still, even GWB managed to go through the debates--I don't plan on voting for McCain but I would certainly expect him to give a better showing than Bush.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
If he's not going to do well in debates, then moving them closer to the election is probably not a smart move.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
So, what would happen if Obama wants to hold the debate, but McCaine refuses to attend?
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
Perhaps this is a ploy to lower expectations. If McCain now chooses to debate anyway, he can claim his preparations were cut short by his "work" on the economy.
Interesting that several members of Congress have suggested that it will be harder to get anything done if the campaign moves to the Capitol. McCain may have suspended his campaigning, but the campaign as a whole (including press corps) is not his to suspend.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
Let's all be positive about the current financial crisis.
Maybe I'm mistaking cause and effect, but it certainly seems that as the crisis deepens, more people are looking for change as a result and McPain is inextricably tied to the architects of the disaster.
McCain himself is running scared, requesting a postponement of his debate to "work on the crisis", which, seeing as how there's absolutely nothing he can do about it, equates to "figure out how I can stop bleeding support while it's in the news."
3.7% and rising...
Bit early to breathe a sigh of relief, but if the crisis gets Obama home, it will have been worth it.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
My father, before he retired, was in charge of shark control on the Mississippi River from St. Louis to Clarkston, Missouri.
He must have done a great job because I don't think anyone ever found a shark on that stretch of river the entire time.
The sharks had all moved to Wall Street to sell mortgage backed securities instead.
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
Things are speeding up today.
Obama refuses to call off debate, and McCain will not come unless a package has been agreed upon.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
McCain has the worst record in the Senate for showing up to vote...
Arre you saying that he has routinely voted "absent"?
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Zorro
Shipmate
# 9156
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Posted
Christ this is sad news. A financial crisis that has been going on for about a fortnight now is going to postpone a presidential debate? Is it going to be all done and dusted by the time McCain wants it to be held instead? This having already asked to have the setup of the debate changed to accomodate Palin's lack of experience? Obama must be laughing all the way to the polling box-almost takes the sport out of it!
Zorro.
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It is so hard to believe, because it is so hard to obey. Soren Kierkegaard
Well, churches really should be like sluts; take everyone no matter who they are or whether they can pay. Spiffy da wondersheep
Posts: 2568 | From: Baja California (actually the UK but that's where my fans know me from) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures....
Obviously Congress and the Courts have decided that the wiretapping in this case is not unreasonable.
The Executive and Legislative branches may have decided that the wiretapping is reasonable, but it's not really their call, is it? The courts have dismissed several lawsuits based on lack of standing, but they have not ruled on the constitutionality of the wiretapping programs.
How do you dismiss the second half of the Fourth Amendment? You know, the part that you snipped out about warrants, probable cause, and specificity?
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...
Actually holding enemy detainees at Guantanamo does comply with the provision above!
Just because the Fifth Amendment includes the words "naval forces" does not mean that the government is free to hold people indefinitely as long as they're on a naval base. The prisoners in question are not members of the land or naval forces, nor the militia. Even if they were, they would still be entitled to due process.
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.
Well, these are not criminal prosecutions. These are military courts operating during a time of war. Until recently the protections above were not afforded to enemy combatants. Now, however, with that nasty Supreme Court ruling, we will have to read any enemy soldiers their rights.
As others have requested, please indicate when and where war has been declared. Then, please explain how the enemy prisoners of war are being treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention.
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
A few days ago, Sen. McCain was telling us that the economy is fundamentally strong. Now he is telling us that someting has to be done by Friday or the whole thing will collapse like a deck of cards.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Oh, Scot, don't be dense. We are NOT at war when it suits us to not be at war (i.e. when it would otherwise mean we might be called upon to honour the Geneva conventions); but we ARE at war when it suits us to be at war (i.e. when it means we can suspend due process and utilize kangaroo -- excuse me, star chamber -- excuse me, military courts).
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
McPain is inextricably tied to the architects of the disaster.
BUZZZZZZ!
Wrong Answer!
No advancement to the next round.
As everyone knows McCain tried to prevent this crisis about two years ago. Bush and the Republicans sponsored a bill to address Freddie and Fannie*'s woes. The Democrats, especially Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, stopped it. Of course the original source of all this mess is the liberal Democratic social policies that required banks to lend to non-credit worthy borrowers. In other words this whole crisis is brought to you by the Democratic Party.
(*Freddie and Fannie: Sounds like a bad vaudeville act!)
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Of course the original source of all this mess is the liberal Democratic social policies that required banks to lend to non-credit worthy borrowers.
Source?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
McCain has the worst record in the Senate for showing up to vote...
Arre you saying that he has routinely voted "absent"?
--Tom Clune
No, he just doesn't show up. (I gave a link to this somewhere in one of the previous 75 pages of this thread.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
quote:
No, he just doesn't show up. (I gave a link to this somewhere in one of the previous 75 pages of this thread.)
Well, this probably isn't the link you posted, but it tells the tale:
John McCain Officially Most Absent Member of the Senate
It's a pretty short item, but the internal links lead to some interesting stuff.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
As everyone knows McCain tried to prevent this crisis about two years ago. Bush and the Republicans sponsored a bill to address Freddie and Fannie's woes. The Democrats, especially Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, stopped it. Of course the original source of all this mess is the liberal Democratic social policies that required banks to lend to non-credit worthy borrowers. In other words this whole crisis is brought to you by the Democratic Party.
Do you really believe this?
If so, please substantiate each claim.
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform ACT of 2005
OK. Now about the claim of the original cause of the mess. Something about a requirement to lend to the non-credit worthy.
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
OK. Now about the claim of the original cause of the mess...
I'm sorry. My googlenoid is suffering a buffer overload; something about null point anecdotal cross-referencing irregularities.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
...evidence suggests, the Devil made them do it.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
I recall that some years ago (before 9/11, I think) someone in the US did a telephone survey regarding support for the wording of the 4th Amendment. An astonishing number of people thought it would pose too big a barrier to government.
I think it'd be very interesting to ask all the candidates how they feel about other parts of the Bill of Rights (or, "What part of no law don't you understand?" as the T-shirt said.) Especially "establishment of religion".
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
What does this line mean from the summary of the bill?
quote:
Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements.
OK, here you go. It may take time to find the relevant parts of the Securities Exchange Act of 1933 & 1934:
quote:
SEC. 205. EXCLUSION FROM CERTAIN SECURITIES REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.
(a) IN GENERAL- The Federal Home Loan Banks shall be exempt from compliance with--
(1) sections 13(e), 14(a), 14(c), and 17A of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and related Commission regulations; and
(2) section 15 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and related Commission regulations, with respect to transactions in the capital stock of a Federal Home Loan Bank.
(b) MEMBER EXEMPTION- The members of the Federal Home Loan Bank System shall be exempt from compliance with sections 13(d), 13(f), 13(g), 14(d), and 16 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and related Commission regulations, with respect to ownership of or transactions in the capital stock of the Federal Home Loan Banks by such members.
(c) EXEMPTED AND GOVERNMENT SECURITIES-
(1) CAPITAL STOCK- The capital stock issued by each of the Federal Home Loan Banks under section 6 of the Federal Home Loan Bank Act are--
(A) `exempted securities', within the meaning of section 3(a)(2) of the Securities Act of 1933; and
(B) `exempted securities', within the meaning of section 3(a)(12)(A) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.
(2) OTHER OBLIGATIONS- The debentures, bonds, and other obligations issued under section 11 of the Federal Home Loan Bank Act are--
(A) `exempted securities', within the meaning of section 3(a)(2) of the Securities Act of 1933;
(B) `government securities', within the meaning of section 3(a)(42) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934; and
(E) `government securities' within the meaning of section 2(a)(16) of the Investment Company Act of 1940.
(3) BROKERS AND DEALERS- A person that effects transactions in the capital stock or other obligations of a Federal Home Loan Bank, for the account of others or for his own account, as applicable--
(A) is excluded from the definition of the term `government securities broker' under section 3(a)(43) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934; and
(B) is excluded from the definition of `government securities dealer' under section 3(a)(44) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.
(d) EXEMPTION FROM REPORTING REQUIREMENTS- The Federal Home Loan Banks shall be exempt from periodic reporting requirements under the securities laws pertaining to--
(1) the disclosure of related party transactions that occur in the ordinary course of the business of the Banks with members; and
(2) the disclosure of the unregistered sales of equity securities.
(e) TENDER OFFERS- Commission rules relating to tender offers shall not apply in connection with transactions in the capital stock of the Federal Home Loan Banks.
(f) REGULATIONS-
(1) FINAL RULES- Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Commission shall issue final rules to implement this section and the exemptions provided in this section.
(2) CONSIDERATIONS- In issuing final regulations under this section, the Commission shall consider the distinctive characteristics of the Federal Home Loan Banks when evaluating the accounting treatment with respect to the payment to the Resolution Funding Corporation, the role of the combined financial statements of the Federal Home Loan Banks, the accounting classification of redeemable capital stock, and the accounting treatment related to the joint and several nature of the obligations of the Banks.
(g) APPLICABILITY- The exemptions and exclusions provided for in this section shall apply in accordance with this section, notwithstanding any other provision of law, including any provision of the securities laws.
(h) DEFINITIONS- As used in this section--
(1) the terms `Bank', `Federal Home Loan Bank', `member', and `Federal Home Loan Bank System' have the same meanings as in section 2 of the Federal Home Loan Bank Act (12 U.S.C. 1422);
(2) the term `Commission' means the Securities and Exchange Commission'; and
(3) the term `securities laws' has the same meaning as in section 3(a)(47) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
For those into religious political drama, there's a new youtube video of Pastor Thomas Muthee laying hands on Sarah Palin while "rebuking every form of witchcraft in the Name of Jesus." Drag the slider ahead to 3:48 into the prayer.
Meanwhile, McCain has suggested that the federal bailout of failing investment banks being negotiated in Washington requires that he cancel this Friday's debate with Obama so that McCain be there to contribute. The Democratic nominee's reaction? quote:
"Presidents are going to have to deal with more than one thing at a time. It is not necessary for us to think we can do only one thing and suspend everything else. With respect to the debates it is my belief that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person who in roughly 40 days will be responsible for this mess. I think it is going to be part of the president's job to deal with more than one thing at once. I don't see why we can't be constructive in helping with this problem."
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Seems reasonable. Although the new prez doesn't take over until January.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Civil rights HAVE been rolled back. Wiretapping without warrant? Held at Guantanamo without trial? Hello?
Sigh.
So far it seems to have worked. No major attack since 9/11.
Rome destroyed itself from within long before the barbarians approached the gates.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Neither McCain nor Obama has any role in the House Financial Services Committee meeting - no contributions whatsoever. What's McCain going to do in Washington? Stand around on the steps of Congress informing the cameras, "I told you so!"? McCain is "suspending his campaign to address this crisis". Yeah, OK.
The real photo-op will be at the meeting Bush has called at the Whitehouse for both party nominees. All three will benefit from the serious nature of this historic meeting. "Look how we have put aside our political differences in order to ameliorate the serious shafting the people shall receive."
Lameduck Bush will receive undeserved respect as some sort of bi-partisan political mediator between inconsequential players in this fiasco. McCain will assume his Serious Game face as he reminds everyone he was cosponsor for failed legislative financial law addressing this issue years ago. Obama will look studious and introspective while reminding everyone that the common American citizen should not be forgotten in this rush to bail out the US economy.
Don't tell me this Reality Show wasn't scripted long ago. Six weeks before the election and suddenly there's a rush to fix the mortgage crisis or the world will descend into chaos? Where's Gandalf when you need him?
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--Formerly: Gort--
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