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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
Zorro
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Argh! Hofstra told me the debate started 4 mins ago! They can set up a presidential debate but they can't set a fucking clock!


[Mad]


Zorro.

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It is so hard to believe, because it is so hard to obey. Soren Kierkegaard
Well, churches really should be like sluts; take everyone no matter who they are or whether they can pay. Spiffy da wondersheep

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Orb

Eye eye Cap'n!
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Oh by the way, I think McCain will tank again in tonight's debate.

But that's hardly worth predicting, is it?

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“You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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The debate starts about four hours and forty minutes after the time stamp of this post.
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Organ Builder
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quote:
Originally posted by Orb:
Oh by the way, I think McCain will tank again in tonight's debate.

I don't know that he will embarrass himself horribly--he's had a few gaffes but he hasn't done that yet.

Unfortunately for him, he needs a truly stellar performance if he is to have any chance at all in the short time remaining.

His campaign has been written off too many times in the past for me to feel comfortable closing the lid on it just yet, but I think this debate is Obama's to lose, not McCain's to win.

That and $1.95 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbuck's.

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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson

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Choirboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
From what I hear, ever since the Democratic convention, Hillary has been an awfully good girl, campaigning vigorously for Obama-Biden. If he is elected, how is he going to repay her? High cabinet post (Attorney General, maybe)? Supreme Court?

Going on the assumption that anyone to replace her in the Senate would be a Democrat, I imagine Supreme Court is the best place, partly, as you say, so he doesn't have to have her and Bill mucking about. I can't imagine Justice Stephens carrying on through a whole term of a Democratic presidency, so there should be a vacancy.

Alternatively, she may simply decide to be an influential Senator. She could end up majority leader at some point.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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She said yesterday she just wants to be a good senator, that she's not interested in being on the Supreme Court and that the chances of her running for POTUS again are "probably close to zero." I could see her taking a few pages out of Teddy Kennedy's playbook, though at 60 she doesn't have all the time in the world to make her mark in the Senate.
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Choirboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Orb:
McCain was always their man. And, it seems, he was always destined to lose.

Not so. He almost went out of business due to lack of funding prior to the primaries, and was a surprise win in New Hampshire, if I recall correctly.

The real problem for the Republicans is that they had no single man. To assume so would promote a viewpoint of the Republican party as more united than it actually is at the moment.

What we are seeing is the collapse of the Reagan coalition due to excessive neocon incompetance in governance. There was no one person that the 'Christian Right', your old line traditional conservatives, and your hawkish neocons could all gravitate to. McCain sneaks in due to a divided house. Likewise, no one of those groups could hope to attract the former Reagan Democrats on their own. Hence, McCain is going down.

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Choirboy
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quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
This may mean nothing to you, but I am a life-long Red Sox fan. I have seen defeat snatched from the jaws of victory far too many times to count.

They're one game down. Lighten up!

--Tom Clune

OK, Now you can start to panic...

--Tom Clune

Yes, it is very sad. I heard some fan, I believe, commented after the division series that 'no one does it in the post season like the Red Sox'. I had to agree, but I don't think I meant it in the same way that he did. Obviously a post-2004 fan....

...but I digress. Back to less important matters.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
What we are seeing is the collapse of the Reagan coalition due to excessive neocon incompetance in governance.

Which is either predictable, or ironic, or both, given that they're constantly saying that government is the problem and not the solution.

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Foolhearty
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Watch out, Mousethief. You're going to give rise to a whole new conspiracy theory. Instead of Duh-bya merely being the Worst POTUS ever, you'll have people thinking he's succesfully achieved his long-term covert objective: bringing about the destruction of the United States Government.

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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mousethief

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Let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Nicolemr
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Two completely unimportant bits of trivia about hofstra, where tonights debate is being held.

1. Both of my parents went to Hofstra, and I applied and was accepted but went somewhere else.

2. The building where the debate is being held was rented by my daughter's high school this past spring for her graduation ceremony.

Sorry, couldn't resist mentioning it.

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Zorro
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Nicole, is Hofstra an acronym or what?


Zorro.

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Nicolemr
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No, it's a Dutch name. A family named Hofstra owned the land it's built on, I think.

It was a fairly new college when my father went there, before and after WW2.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Zorro
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Cheers [Smile]


I'm watching BBC's coverage as CNN's is a bit behind. Weird that.


Zorro.

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It is so hard to believe, because it is so hard to obey. Soren Kierkegaard
Well, churches really should be like sluts; take everyone no matter who they are or whether they can pay. Spiffy da wondersheep

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GoodCatholicLad
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What's with the The Old Man and the furious scribbling? What's with
all the "you said this and you said that" boo hoo hoo what is this? High School??? It's politics for petesake everyone talks smack. God I am going to be so glad when this election is over!

[ 16. October 2008, 01:41: Message edited by: GoodCatholicLad ]

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Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
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quote:
Originally posted by Orb:
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
They'd be a much more attractive ticket with Mitt Romney up front right now.

Except of course for the simple truth that, to use a British phrase, he is a git.

McCain was always their man.

Huh? Were you following the race in the summer of 2007? I was, and McCain looked dead in the water.

There are elements of the Republican base that really didn't like him.

Charlotte

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Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Cause he's a big fucking pussy. You'd think someone who had the shit beat out of him by the Viet Cong for five years would be able to take it.

However, Sarah fucking Palin is SO not a role model for women, unless it's of the "horrible warning" kind.

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Zorro
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Oh dear. McCain's "I'm such a victim and my running mate is a reformer and by the way she has a special needs child," line seems to have collapsed. Obama pointed out that helping special needs children requires programs with cash. Smoothly done.


Seems to be a feature tonight-McCain being glib, almost chatty and Obama being smooth and controlled in response. Can't help but wonder if he's coming over a bit dry though?


Zorro.

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It is so hard to believe, because it is so hard to obey. Soren Kierkegaard
Well, churches really should be like sluts; take everyone no matter who they are or whether they can pay. Spiffy da wondersheep

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
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It would simpler if they'd just arm-wrestle and get it over with.

Bob Schieffer: "Gentlemen? I think we can expedite this debate with a simple contest. Please face each other, place your right elbows on the table between you and grasp each others hand. On my count, force your opponent's arm down to the table's surface. The victor shall be declared champion of this debate. Now, take your positions. Ready...mark..."

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Izzybee
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# 10931

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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:

However, Sarah fucking Palin is SO not a role model for women, unless it's of the "horrible warning" kind.

I know. When he said that, I threw up in my mouth a little.

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Hate filled bitch musings...

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Foolhearty
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I thought there was going to be a debate tonight.

Rehash, rehash, rehash.

I'm glad this is the last debate. If we had any more, the entire voting public would stay home out of boredom.

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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I just want to punch McCain right in his smirking maw.

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Izzybee
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I thought McCain's take on abortion was interesting - that it should be decided on a state by state basis?

"Come to Delaware for all your abortion needs!"

Is this just a nice way of not answering the question or does he have a history of putting forward this policy?

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Hate filled bitch musings...

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Foolhearty
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Jesus! Competition among schools? What planet is McCain living on?

In my tiny little state, little kids in the North Woods already have to travel 60 miles by bus to get to the nearest damn school. They'd be traveling 100 miles to get to some other one.

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Doesn't he know his own running mate? Doesn't little Geometry have Down's, not autism?

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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FreeJack
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Has McCain being cryogenically frozen and brought back to life. His face works and his hands move but the rest of him isn't quite alive. Reminds me of a white-haired Davros.

More civil debate than I expected.

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maleveque
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What the hell was McCaint wearing on his wrist?? Is that a copper bracelet for his arthritis?
Anne L.

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maleveque
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Oh, and I called my brother Joe up after he had gone to bed and asked him why the presidential candidates were both talking to him through the TV.
Oh wait - my brother Joe is a carpenter (yeah, yeah, I know...) not a plumber.
Anne L.

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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Who knows? My favorite part, though, was when McCain whined about how he had to go negative because Obama didn't agree to town hall debates. That was the biggest WTF? out of all the WTF? moments they had.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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Nicolemr
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I'm curious about something. I'm not able to watch the debate for various technological reasons so I'm going by running commentary on a couple of different sites. On the Cnn.com political ticker, a _lot_ of people have commented on McCain "grunting", or "making weird nosises", or "mumbling", and blinking and twitching. After hearing it read out loud to him, my husbands started thinking that McCain may have actually had a stroke recently. What do people think? Does it sound plausible? Does he really look/sound that "off"?

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Foolhearty
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The Talking Heads on ABC seem to agree that McCain "lost," FWIW. Even George Will does.

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
... Does he really look/sound that "off"?

Not to me. He seemed nervous and a bit strident but not disabled.

[ 16. October 2008, 02:53: Message edited by: Gort ]

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--Formerly: Gort--

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maleveque
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McCain't is certainly very physically stiff. He holds a pen like Bob Dole, which seems odd because as far as I know, both his arms work. I recall reading that he did have a war injury that kept him from raising his arms above his shoulders, so maybe that's the source of some of his stiffness. He was grimacing a lot, but I didn't notice grunting.
Anne L.

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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Although he did look like Mr Wilson from Dennis the Menace when Obama said that Joe the Plumber would be fined $0. That was the one point I truly thought he was just going to lose it.

McCain probably would have won if he hadn't gotten bogged down in the repudiate thing. And he lied when he said that he had repudiated every negative thing that came from Republicans. I guess "palling around with terrorists" and his own commercials that he flat-out states he "approved" are exempt in McCainland. But he whined about not getting an apology from someone who has nothing to do with Obama and that was the beginning of the end.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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Foolhearty
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IIRC, both McCain's arms were broken and not re-set properly during his POW years, and he was forced to learn to write all over again with his left hand, as he could no longer write with his right.

I suspect a great deal of his stiffness stems, one way or another, from old injuries.

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
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The lasting question is... has Joe the Plumber been won-over?

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Nicolemr
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Thanks guys.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Foolhearty
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I don't know about Joe the Plumber, but our late news is showing coverage of Sarah Palin's campaign stop in my state right now, and if I have to listen to that sing-song whine talking about "moose-huntin'" much more, I'm going to lose it.

God save us. Can you imagine if she becamse President?

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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My favorite part was when Obama said something to the effect that "the fact that Bill Ayres has become the centerpiece of your campaign says more about your campaign than it does about me."
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Weatherwax
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# 11920

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quote:
Originally posted by Foolhearty:
I don't know about Joe the Plumber, but our late news is showing coverage of Sarah Palin's campaign stop in my state right now, and if I have to listen to that sing-song whine talking about "moose-huntin'" much more, I'm going to lose it.

God save us. Can you imagine if she becamse President?



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If thou couldst empty all thyself of self, Like to a shell dishabited, Then might He find thee on the Ocean shelf, And say—" This is not dead,"— And fill thee with Himself instead.
(formerly TE Brown)

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Weatherwax
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# 11920

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quote:
Originally posted by Foolhearty:

God save us. Can you imagine if she becamse President?

Oops - sorry about that last - here's what I meant to actually add:

Here's one conceptualization -
http://palinaspresident.com/

TEB

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If thou couldst empty all thyself of self, Like to a shell dishabited, Then might He find thee on the Ocean shelf, And say—" This is not dead,"— And fill thee with Himself instead.
(formerly TE Brown)

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Foolhearty
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Yes! And arrgh, Palin, being interviewed on late TV here, not only repeated the Ayres lie, but went on to suggest that Obama is even now associating with enemies of America, for all we know.

You know, I'm having a hard time with this whole Christian branding of Palin. Isn't there a little clause in the Christian Contract (tm) somewhere about bearing false witness?

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
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Plus there's that "golden rule" thing I've heard so much about. Restorationists must not have that in their Bibles.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Foolhearty
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quote:
Originally posted by TE Brown:
quote:
Originally posted by Foolhearty:

God save us. Can you imagine if she becamse President?

Oops - sorry about that last - here's what I meant to actually add:

Here's one conceptualization -
http://palinaspresident.com/

TEB

Oh, I love it. Which is better -- the four blank diplomas? The science book in the wastebasket? Or the shot gun hidden in the drapes?

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Fear doesn't empty tomorrow of its perils; it empties today of its power.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
I thought McCain's take on abortion was interesting - that it should be decided on a state by state basis?

"Come to Delaware for all your abortion needs!"

Is this just a nice way of not answering the question or does he have a history of putting forward this policy?

It's code language for "state's rights", which goes all the way back to the Civil War, or, as those who hold that pov like to call it, "The War of Northern Aggression".

Which makes one wonder what else should be left up to "state's rights"...

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Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
I thought McCain's take on abortion was interesting - that it should be decided on a state by state basis?

"Come to Delaware for all your abortion needs!"

Is this just a nice way of not answering the question or does he have a history of putting forward this policy?

It's code language for "state's rights", which goes all the way back to the Civil War, or, as those who hold that pov like to call it, "The War of Northern Aggression".

Which makes one wonder what else should be left up to "state's rights"...

Plus sometimes it's easier to fight those battles at the state level. We're seeing it in California right now with Prop 8, which if passed will write heterosexual marriage into the state constitution in order to overturn the state supreme court's ruling in favor of gay marriage.

To be fair, pretty much everyone wants to leave an issue up to the states if they don't think they can win on the federal level. It's not just a Republican thing, and given the association of the assertion of states' rights with slavery, I'm not sure that's not the wording I would use to discuss the anti-abortion folks' aims.

Abortion was one of the many topics where Obama did much better than McCain this evening. Saying that this is an issue where good people on either side can disagree and that we should all be working to reduce unintended pregnancies was a smart move. McCain thought he was making the smart move when he said he wouldn't have a litmus test, but then he essentially said people opposed to Roe v. Wade aren't qualified to sit on the Supreme Court -- we all know what he means, and he lost a bunch of moderates when he was busy shoring up his base, which is the story of the last six weeks.

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Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
I'm curious about something. I'm not able to watch the debate for various technological reasons so I'm going by running commentary on a couple of different sites. On the Cnn.com political ticker, a _lot_ of people have commented on McCain "grunting", or "making weird nosises", or "mumbling", and blinking and twitching. After hearing it read out loud to him, my husbands started thinking that McCain may have actually had a stroke recently. What do people think? Does it sound plausible? Does he really look/sound that "off"?

I've been thinking "mini-stroke" was a possibility for the last month or so. Not big enough to send someone to the hospital but things are definitely "off". So, no, it's not just your husband thinking that.

I saw some of the clips. Did McCain know it was going to be a split screen?

Charlotte

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Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Plus there's that "golden rule" thing I've heard so much about. Restorationists must not have that in their Bibles.

My bad. I should have said "Dominionist." Apologies to any this misspeaking may have offended -- it was unintentional: a brain fart.

[ 16. October 2008, 04:28: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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Izzybee
Shipmate
# 10931

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Thanks to both Cliffdweller and RuthW - as someone who's only been allowed to vote (in the USA) for two years, there's still some of this stuff that seems a little strange to me.

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