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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Swish
Shipmate
# 8566
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Posted
Could someone help me out and explain the appeal of Romney in regards to the other candidates? I initially thought that he was running a strong 'moral conservative' campaign and thought that Huckabee would take away much of the votes that he would have got for that - and for all his faults it seems to me that Huckabee has been a lot more consistent than Romney. What is Romney running on? All a bit confusing from the other side of the Atlantic.
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Sorry Ted. I was concentrating too hard on looking holy.
Posts: 114 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Sep 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Michigan democratic machine broke the rules, so their delegates are rejected by the Convention.
The British equivalent (in legal terms) would be, say, a local Labour Party GMC that broke the rules on electing delegates to national conference and so was ruled out of order. Of course as we have hundreds of constituencies and they have fewer states and Michigan is a biggish one it is relatively more impactful.
The interesting question is why they broke the rules. Unless they have been chucked into the lake and replaced by fluffy bunnies, the Michigan Democrats are about as likely to lose their delgation by accidentally getting the rules wrong as Manchester United are to have a nil-nil draw with Accrington Stanley.
So, being a natural-born conspiracy theorist, I have to assume that someone in Michigan actually wanted to castrate their delegation.
And as Clinton was almost sure to win the Michigan Primary I'd guess that it wasn't her supporters who blew it. Though it might have been some of the same people who were printing leaflets telling Democrats to vote "uncommitted".
Of course the other really interesting question (if you are an obsessive political hack like me) is how many disenfranchised Michigan Democrats voted in the Republican primary?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
In Michigan, with most precincts counted, Romney won convincingly, with 39 percent of the vote while his nearest rival was McCain with 30 percent. Huckabee was third with 16 percent. No other Republican reached double digits.
snip
Neither Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama nor John Edwards campaigned in Michigan, where party officials defied the Democratic National Committee by holding the primary so early in the campaign season.
As a result, the election was a bit farcical, because Clinton was the only major candidate who entered the race. She faced competition principally from the 'uncommitted' line on the ballot, an option that Obama and Edwards urged their supporters to take.
With most precincts counted, Clinton had 56 percent of the vote, much more than the 39 percent for uncommitted delegates to the Democratic National Convention.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
The problem is, there are many people who agree with Huckabee.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Actually, Huckabee made an accurate statement. It is easier to change the constitution than the bible. Is it easy to change the constitution? Nope.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Swish:
Could someone help me out and explain the appeal of Romney in regards to the other candidates?
The cliche is that the Republican party gathers support from big business, social conservatives, the traditional authoritarian right-wing, white Southern fundamentalists, and small-l libertarians. (Those are overlapping groups - except for authoritarians and libertarians of course)
Huge generalisation: Business doesn't want Huckabee, prefers Romney, but can live with Giuliani or McCain. Social conservatives don't like Giuliani but are happy with Romney or Hucklabee. Right-wingers suspect McCain (and possibly Giuliani and even Huckabee) of being too liberal. The libertarian tendency really don't like Huckabee, would prefer McCain, can live with Giuliani, might just vote for Romney as long as they think he will keep his religion out of his politics.
Romney's made lots of money in his own business which Americans always like (Staples chain of office supply superstores, Dominos pizza, etc etc)
His family background includes both big business and government. Americans seem very prone to electing 2nd or 3rd generation politicians to senior office. There current President is more or less a fifth generation politician. We also do it, but not as much as they do. The Churchills and the Benns and so on.
He doesn't come over as a rabid social conservative and so is thought able to win over soft Democrat and uncommitted votes. A Democrat who thinks Clinton or Obama too liberal might be persuaded to vote Romney, but not Huckabee. (Though Giuliani and McCain would be even better bets from that point of view)
He's MOTR-right-wing on most economic issues, like most Republicans. McCain is more economically liberal than the party (in both the American and the European senses) and Huckabee come overs as being a bit week on trade and government intervention enough.
On social issues Huckabee is portraying himself as more conservative than Romney and than most Republican voters, Giuliani and McCain are looking less socially conservative.
Also, I am told, Romney is good-looking. Being a bloke, I can't tell. Actually I can't even remember what he looks like and I've seen him on TV and in the papers loads of times in the last few weeks, and on three or four websites within the last half-hour. Sort of bland anonymous daytime-soap face on top of a boring business suit. If I remember correctly, which I might not. (I can't remember what John Edwards looks like either, though he has had nothing like the coverage over here.)
And he's quite clever. Though (from this side of the Atlantic) he doesn't seem as good a speaker or as nice a guy as Huckabee or McCain. And he talks lots of cliches (but so do most of them)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Swish:
Could someone help me out and explain the appeal of Romney in regards to the other candidates? I initially thought that he was running a strong 'moral conservative' campaign and thought that Huckabee would take away much of the votes that he would have got for that - and for all his faults it seems to me that Huckabee has been a lot more consistent than Romney. What is Romney running on? All a bit confusing from the other side of the Atlantic.
It would probably be a mixture of experience and economic understanding. You can go to his website and tool around.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
As others have said (and that's a pretty darn good summary, ken), Romney appeals to the pro-business voter because he has actually run a successful business, and he can leverage that experience against the others who have basically made politics (or acting) their careers.
With regards to the results in Michigan, there was a key difference in how Romney and McCain addressed that state's dire employment situation (what with the American automobile industry being in terrible shape): Romney told them that he knew how to do business turnarounds and that he would fight for them (quote) to get the jobs back. McCain took the approach of supporting retraining to develop skills for new and different jobs, and apparently that didn't make any unemployed auto workers very happy. (My personal take on this: another example of Romney saying whatever it takes to get votes.)
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
(My personal take on this: another example of Romney saying whatever it takes to get votes.)
You think he's unique in this regard?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
A Democrat who thinks Clinton or Obama too liberal <snip>
The number of Democrats I know in this category is vanishingly small.
[botched code]
[ 16. January 2008, 14:35: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Liberal has become a dirty word in America. Not to mention many of the radical left's ideas have not proven to be nirvana. Not all of them, mind you, but many.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
As others have said (and that's a pretty darn good summary, ken), Romney appeals to the pro-business voter because he has actually run a successful business, and he can leverage that experience against the others who have basically made politics (or acting) their careers.
With regards to the results in Michigan, there was a key difference in how Romney and McCain addressed that state's dire employment situation (what with the American automobile industry being in terrible shape): Romney told them that he knew how to do business turnarounds and that he would fight for them (quote) to get the jobs back. McCain took the approach of supporting retraining to develop skills for new and different jobs, and apparently that didn't make any unemployed auto workers very happy. (My personal take on this: another example of Romney saying whatever it takes to get votes.)
I tried for a couple of minutes to find the article I read a year ot two back about this, but more than half of foreign name brand vehicles sold in the US are now made here. The question they need to ask is why can others come to America and make a profit building cars, but American car companies have trouble?
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Republican John McCain holds a 6-point lead over rival Mike Huckabee in South Carolina three days before the state's crucial presidential nominating contest, according to a Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.
McCain, an Arizona senator, leads the former Arkansas governor by 29 percent to 23 percent. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney was in third place with 13 percent.
snip
In fourth place among Republicans was former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson. Texas Rep. Ron Paul trailed with 6 percent and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani had 5 percent.
Interesting McCain is ahead of Huckabee in SC, home of Bob Jones University, and I'm surprised Jones endorsed a Mormon: it was only eight years ago the guy revoked the university's prohibition against interracial dating.
quote:
Contrary to potential misinterpretations that could possibly arise from a recent statement from the Romney campaign, Bob Jones University has never officially endorsed political candidates and that policy has not changed. In late October, Dr. Bob Jones III expressed support for Governor Mitt Romney for president. In endorsing Romney, Dr. Bob Jones III spoke as a private citizen.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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beza
Shipmate
# 10581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
[QUOTE
I'm surprised Jones endorsed a Mormon: it was only eight years ago the guy revoked the university's prohibition against interracial dating.
[/QUOTE]
I don't want to open the whole Mormon racial doctrines can of worms, but maybe he sees him as a kindred spirit? 1979 was really rather late to be declaring blacks to be equal, presumably Romney went along with their racist teachings until then. I'm suprised the media haven't brought that up, though I guess the black vote is pretty much a lost cause for Republicans.
On a different note,can anybody in the US tell me if the Mighigan Primary was covered in the USA to the same extent as Iowa and New Hampshire? Over here in the UK it didn't get much coverage, hardly any build up and only third or fourth item on the news bulletins. I wonder if this is because there was no Democratic "contest" and this is an indicator that the British media is not interested in the Republican race because a) the candidates are less "interesting" to Europeans(ie none of them are black or female) b) they assume the Democrats are a shoe in for November, so the race for their nomination is the only one of interest.
Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The Michigan primary got a lot of coverage, though not as much as Iowa and New Hampshire, since there was no Democratic contest to cover. It was a top story every day once the news crews left New Hampshire, but the coverage hasn't been as intense. Here in California we've been hearing just as much if not more about the Nevada caucuses, which are this Saturday -- more about the Democrats than the Republicans, since the Democratic candidates are showing up to campaign, whereas the Republicans seem to all be blowing it off.
Reuters has an interesting article about the Republican race in Nevada. It looks like Nevada's bid for attention worked on the Democratic side, as Clinton and Obama are fighting for endorsements and quarreling about whether it's okay for caucuses to take place in casinos where the unions have endorsed Obama, but not on the Republican side, where Romney is expected to win big.
[ 16. January 2008, 16:10: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
This kind of endorsement....
quote:
....One Nevada brothel owner has even offered customers backing Paul two women for the price of one.....
...really sums up Ron Paul's chances doesn't it?
Wow.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
Did anyone see Craig Ferguson last night? He was commenting on the new season of "American Idol" and reality shows, in general. He said:
quote:
Someone asked Hillary Clinton if she'd like to be on "American Idol". She said she'd rather be on "Dancing with the Stars". Bill said he'd rather be on "The Bachelor".
Well, I thought it was funny.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) I love Craig Ferguson.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
I guess Bill Clinton is going to show up in Nevada to endorse Ron Paul.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I tried for a couple of minutes to find the article I read a year ot two back about this, but more than half of foreign name brand vehicles sold in the US are now made here. The question they need to ask is why can others come to America and make a profit building cars, but American car companies have trouble?
The foreign car companies have built brand-new state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities in non-union, low-average-wage parts of the US. The American car companies are stuck in Detroit with aging infrastructure, the United Auto Workers, and are carrying the huge expense of extremely large numbers of retired workers entitled to cushy pension and healthcare benefits left over from the Good Old Days.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I tried for a couple of minutes to find the article I read a year ot two back about this, but more than half of foreign name brand vehicles sold in the US are now made here. The question they need to ask is why can others come to America and make a profit building cars, but American car companies have trouble?
The foreign car companies have built brand-new state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities in non-union, low-average-wage parts of the US. The American car companies are stuck in Detroit with aging infrastructure, the United Auto Workers, and are carrying the huge expense of extremely large numbers of retired workers entitled to cushy pension and healthcare benefits left over from the Good Old Days.
Yep. And that's where the US auto companies messed up. They left themselves in too much of a straight jacket.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I guess Bill Clinton is going to show up in Nevada to endorse Ron Paul.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
At the start of this race I didn't think Obama could overcome Clinton's substantial campaign experience but I'm beginning to think he has a real shot at the nomination.
Race, Sex and the Battle for the Democratic Nod
quote:
Clinton's advantages in national polling, which basically evaporated in the new poll, relied on overwhelming support among women. Now, a week and a half before the South Carolina primary, the new poll finds a gap emerging between white women and black women.
It's a divide that may prove critical: African Americans made up nearly half of the Palmetto state's Democratic primary voters in 2004; black women made up 29 percent.
A month ago both white and black women favored Clinton by wide margins, but there's been a big shift. While white women continue to favor Clinton (though by a diminished margin), black women have jumped to Obama, now preferring the Illinois senator by 24 percentage points.
Notably, the change is not a broad indictment of Clinton, but an improved outlook on Obama.
Ninety percent of black women view Clinton favorably, the same as for Obama. But some of the shine is off: 57 percent have "strongly" positive views about Clinton, down from 72 percent in early November.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
(My personal take on this: another example of Romney saying whatever it takes to get votes.)
You think he's unique in this regard?
No, not hardly. But with Mitt it somehow seems more blatant. (A cartoon featured in Newsweek a few weeks ago showed Mitt at prayer, with the voice of God calling down, "Quit pandering, Mitt!")
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I thought so. Mr. Paul really does need to get help. He's nutty.
Why, because he wants to end the war and change our system of taxation to something fair? Yeah, that's pretty crazy.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
(My personal take on this: another example of Romney saying whatever it takes to get votes.)
You think he's unique in this regard?
No, not hardly. But with Mitt it somehow seems more blatant. (A cartoon featured in Newsweek a few weeks ago showed Mitt at prayer, with the voice of God calling down, "Quit pandering, Mitt!")
Didn't see it, but it is funny!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I thought so. Mr. Paul really does need to get help. He's nutty.
Why, because he wants to end the war and change our system of taxation to something fair? Yeah, that's pretty crazy.
Ross
No. Because he wants to bring the troops home without seeing the task through and because he blames America for all the ills of the world.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Ron Paul's positions:
Nonintervention. Nice thought. Crazy as a shithouse rat in a global economy and interconnected world.
Withdraw from UN Probably a crazy thought. I like it, but then I'm crazy sometimes.
Withdraw from NATO Shithouse rat crazy and stupid to boot.
Withdraw from International Criminal Court I'm in. Also crazy.
Stay out of Iraq/Iran/Darfur/Sudan Hell No (Crazy), Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Free Trade I'm all In.
Immigration and End to Automatic Citizenship to those born here. What an asshole.
End Cuba Embargo. All In.
Smaller Government All In.
Lower taxes. Only if we cut like hell and pay off the debt first.
National Sales Tax. Don't think so. More unfair than the current system.
Eliminate U.S. Department of Education, the U.S. Department of Energy, the US Department of Commerce, the US Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Emergency Management Administration, the Interstate Commerce Commission and the Internal Revenue Service Batshit crazy on some of those, but I like the thought on others.
Gold standard or similar... Batshit fucking stupid ass hell no crazy. Tuesday 1929 anyone? Vote Paul.
Freedom to keep and bear arms and stopping other federal violations of liberty All In.
End Eminent domain and affirmative action All in.
Pro-Life Fuck You.
Capital Punishment to the state level Okay.
Against Same Sex marriage and Unwed adoption. Fuck you and what an asshole.
Medical Marijuana and legalize drugs ALL IN.
I love some of his ideas. Hate his guts on others. He's batshit crazy though.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re Int'l Criminal Court:
Um, as I understand it, the US isn't a member. Folks were afraid someone might actually charge us with something.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
Mad Geo, I don't like all of his positions, but where is there a candidate who's going to be 100% right?
We're going to end up with candidates devoid of principle in any case, people who will fall all over each other to sell out our posterity in their stampede to pander to every possible special interest group -- but I might as well vote this time for the guy who gets the most things right. Things like abortion aren't going to be decided by the president in any case.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The president appoints Supreme Court justices, so he/she can have a lot of effect on which way we go on the abortion issue. And voting for someone who has a few positions you don't agree with is one thing -- voting for someone who is indeed batshit crazy is quite another.
[ 17. January 2008, 15:43: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
[QB] Mad Geo, I don't like all of his positions, but where is there a candidate who's going to be 100% right?
Well, there's me, but I'm not running.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
He's batshit crazy though.
... and apparently racist as well.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
I don't think he's batshit crazy. Wrong on some things, very wrong on some other things -- but not crazy.
Supreme Court justices still have to be confirmed by the Congress, which has not been very cooperative with the Bush II administration even in confirming minor appointments lately.
Besides, I want to send a small message to the Republocrats about the big stuff, like the war. That being the case, it's a choice between Paul or Gravel -- or (speaking of batshit crazy) Kucinich.
[eta: Mere Nick, would you prefer to be written in on the Republican or Democratic ballot?]
Ross
[ 17. January 2008, 15:54: Message edited by: Rossweisse ]
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Y'all have seen this, right? (Or even left)
Political Compass opinion on primary contenders
Thanks for the link. It confirms what I already suspected. I agree with Gravel and Kusinich, and find Edwards the least non-objectionable. (Is that a word? I guess it is now.)
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
You've got to give Huckabee points for reaching out to even the most, erm, unique voters.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
(from the linked chart)
Dennis Kucinich is Libertarian? That's one I've never heard before.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Unveils the depth of her ignorance
What actually is a 'primary', and what actually is a 'caucas' ?
(Brit stupidity here, so were anyone kind enough to explain it with UK political similies here it would be a great help.)
Decently recovers ignorance
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
A primary is where we go and vote like a normal election: cast your ballot when you show up and that's it.
A caucus is where we go and meet and talk and take preliminary votes to see how the support looks, and then try to talk the smaller groups into joining our side because they're too small to go anywhere, and after all the discussion and negotiating and arguing has happened, count noses or hands to determine who wins what.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Let me expand on my earlier analysis to show why he is batshit crazy:
Nonintervention.
Someone HAS to intervene sometimes. It might as well be us.
Withdraw from NATO
NATO isn't as necessary as it used to be, of course, when it IS necessary (and it will be again someday) it is good to be in, and amongst friends. This is like having cops in place in case there is a firefight. It's just stupid and crazy not to have cops available.
Stay out of Iraq
Well this was a great thought, prior to 2003. But now we are there. There is a little wee problem that we like to call energy. It's something we all need. Including China, who is snapping up as much as we are. As such, we DO have a strong interest in maintaining law and order there, even if we wish we could leave.
End to Automatic Citizenship to those born here.
Let me repeat, WHAT...AN....ASSHOLE. I don't think this even needs to be addressed it's so fucking stupid and crazy. AFAIC it's racist, and I use that word RARELY. This fucker would have us wind back the very roots of America. We are a nation of immigrants, fuckwit.
Gold standard or similar...
I simply do NOT understand people that want to send us back to the Gold Standard or equivelent.
If he was in favor of THIS ALONE I would think he was fucking crazy, and stupid to boot. I will vote against this on mere policy basis, flat out.
Against Same Sex marriage and Unwed adoption.
I can sorta understand the former, in a bigoted sort of way, even while violently disagreeing with it. But the latter? Oh hell no. You have to be a religous wackjob to try to force that upon people (or equivelent). He seems to want to believe in freedom yet wants to be in the bedroom with other people too. Screw that. I don't care if a couple is gay and likes to hang from the ceiling, if they can be good parents, they can adopt.
In short, we have to make compromises with the devil on our vote no matter what. But I won't vote for batshit crazy.
Needless to say, since he alienated the gays, immigrants, unwed couples, and the likes of ME, I can't see him getting a nomination to camp leader much less president. He's a freak.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
[eta: Mere Nick, would you prefer to be written in on the Republican or Democratic ballot?]
Ross [/QB]
Neither. The democrats piss me off and the republicans rarely pass up opportunities to disappoint. Therefore, it is only right and reasonable for me to be declared Emperor For Life. After I shuffle this mortal coil, folks can then decide if they want another emperor or just some president. The lady at the convenience store didn't object when I told her about it, so, support for the idea is certainly growing.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
Oh, Mad Geo, you closet Republican, you! ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Going back on the gold standard would be a good curb on inflation.
Opposing same-sex marriage and adoptions is just stupid.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
What actually is a 'primary', and what actually is a 'caucas' ?
(Brit stupidity here, so were anyone kind enough to explain it with UK political similies here it would be a great help.)
UK political equivalents are the party selection meetings and the national conference.
Selection meetings are where we choose candidates to put up for election. When, say, the Labour Party chooses a candidate for a council ward, then that local Labour Party branch will ask for nominations, invite the nominees to a meeting, hear them speak, and vote to decide which one they support. When the election comes round, that candidates name will be on the ballot as the Labour candidate. There is a lot of other politicking and bureacracy of course, but that's basically how its done.
I imagine that in most parts of the USA something similar happens for local elections to councils or schoolboards or whatever.
In Britain all our elections are local. The largest parliamentary constituencies ("districts" in US terms) only have a bit more than 100,000 population. (The one big exception to this is the new directly elected London Mayor - Ken Livingstone has had far more votes cast for him personally than any other British politician in history)
In the USA, the President is elected by the whole country. (Indirectly, via a complex system of electoral college votes, but thats another matter). The constituency that votes for the President is the whole nation - far too large for a nationwide party to have one big meeting to choose their candidate. (The same applies to State senators and governors of course)
So the main political parties choose their candidates at their national conventions. The equivalent if the UK party policital conferences. Just as Labour and Tory and Liberal all have a national conference every year in the autumn, so to the Repbublicans and Democrats (and all the minor parties) have a national convention.
Just as local branches of political parties here will hold internal elections to send delegates to Conference, so can the US parties hold internal elections to send delegates to Convention.
That's basically what these Caucuses are. In the year in which the party Convention will nominate a Presidential candidate, people who want to be delegates say who they will support as Presidential candidate. Party members go along to meetings and vote to choose their delegates to Convention on the basis of the candidates they support.
Primaries are an adaptation of the same idea. Instead of th Party holding meetings the State holds a public election. The advantage of this is supposedly that is makes everything above-board and transparent so people know that the nominations aren't being corruptly bought. The disadvantage is that the taxpayers fund what is still basically an internal election in a private club - which is all political parties are in the end, private clubs which (amongst other activies) support those of their members who seek election to public office.
If you want to vote in such a primary you have to be a registered supporter of the party whose delegates you are voting for. Democrats vote for delegates to the Democrat Convention, who then choose Democrat candidates. Republicans vote for delegates to the Republican Convention, who then choose Republican candidates.
Some states have gone one step further and hold open primaries. There are differences in detail between states, but broadly these allow any registered voter to choose which primary they will vote in. So uncommitted voters can help to choose the candidates for one or other party.
I guess the theory behind this is that it is even more open and democratic and allows the whole nation to choose popular candidates and not have extremists foisted on them by a small minority of political activists.
Personally, were I an American, I'd think that was a terrible idea. Firstly because parties tend to choose relatively moderate candidates anyway, because when they don't they lose. Secondly because it allows supporters of one party a hand in choosing the candidates of the other party. And if I had that chance I would be voting for the most unelectable candidate on offer to be my opponent. Now maybe American political activists are more honest. more principled, less pragmatic, and less imaginitive than British ones. But I doubt it...
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Ken,
In North Carolina, which also currently controls occupied West Carolina, registered members of a party and unaffiliated registered voters may vote in a particular party's primary. It may be a terrible idea as you say, but these votes are funded by the taxpayers. Imo, a taxpayer-funded primary should be an open primary. It's bad enough that the two main parties make it very difficult for other parties to be placed on the ballot without demanding public funding of their own party activities.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Ken, you probably know more about the US political system than many of those who will vote in our elections.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Ken, you probably know more about the US political system than many of those who will vote in our elections.
"Magua said... I understand English, very well."
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Oh, Mad Geo, you closet Republican, you!
You jest, but if the Repuglican party merely did what it was supposed to, they probably would get a lifelong Republican out of me since we only have so far had only two real parties to choose from. Smaller government and fiscal responsiblity being two HUGE deals for me. But it was Clinton (Bill) that did those things lately, not the Repuglicans.
Although many could just as easily declared me a closeted democrat. My pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-drug-war side would be what they were seeing, for starters.
They might be even more right than your jest.
Libertarian isn't such a good fit anymore. The more I look at it, the less I see it working in the real world. I really have moved toward Independent as of late....
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Smaller government and fiscal responsiblity being two HUGE deals for me. But it was Clinton (Bill) that did those things lately, not the Repuglicans.
There was no sign of Clinton ever getting any of that done until the Republicans won the house and senate in 1994. 99.9% of the time, it is better to see one party in the White House and another in congress rolling on the floor and throwing punches instead of passing legislation.
What they do get done, if anything, has to pass more folks' smell test.
[ 18. January 2008, 15:15: Message edited by: Mere Nick ]
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Bear in mind that polls are just snapshots and that it's actual votes that really count. But, Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee "are neck and neck heading into Saturday's Republican primary in South Carolina, where the outcome could hinge on a bloc of undecided evangelical voters, according to a new McClatchy-MSNBC poll." The survey, by Mason-Dixon Polling & Research, found Republican voters dividing along these lines: McCain, 27%; Huckabee, 25%; Mitt Romney, 15%; Fred Thompson, 13%; Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, 6%; former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, 5%; Rep. Duncan Hunter of California, 1%; undecided, 8%. Each result has a margin of error of +/- 5 percentage points.
If I've followed the polls accurately the squirrel eater is gaining ground in SC. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Although I haven't said it much during this election, the last election I was SCREAMING for gridlock. Gridlock is our best friend. The only thing worse than two party government is ONE party government
Mad Geo said, "I was listening to a political podcast this morning and they said that Obama has THE most liberal voting record in the Senate, even more liberal than Ted Kennedy."
A Conservative Friend replied "I wonder if Obama has killed anyone...."
Mad Geo replied "He hasn't got enough experience to do that yet...."
[ 18. January 2008, 15:36: Message edited by: Mad Geo ]
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Thanks explanatory folks.
Presumably you can stand as an independent - if you do, can you get the cash the state didn't spend on your primary as a campaign fund ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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