|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Eccles: Feasts of Mary
|
Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishop's Finger:
and finished up with three verses of Immaculate Mary (the Walsingham hymn......).
Around here we call Immaculate Mary el Ave de Lourdes or the Lourdes Hymn. Is this different from the Walshingham hymn?
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
"Dine and Dashers" is the silly little phrase I use for those who receive Communion and immediately leave - they just keep walking to the door rather than returning to their pew.
"Judas Walkers" means the same thing; it's a term a priest I used to to know used.
I'm guessing it has to do with that joke about him being the first person to ever leave mass (that is, the Last Supper) early.
Mass at my church yesterday (Spanish evening mass for the I.C.) was well attended if somewhat disappointing. I was late and arrived during the Old Testament reading so I don't know what the entrance hymn was. Father celebrated with deacon and I think there was a server. A capella hymns lead by one of our de-facto cantors in the congregation. Readings and prayers for the day. Otherwise it was much like our regular weekday Spanish masses, except there was a Gloria, Creed, and a collection during the Preparation of the Gifts. I might have forgotten something else. Sadly, no "Immaculate Mary" ![[Frown]](frown.gif) even though that used to be guaranteed around here.
I was a little disapppointed because until a couple of years ago we'd put more effort into this and other feasts. Not so much anymore, with a couple of exceptions.
--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chiltern_hundred:
I'm not sure about that one either, Laetare. I'd argue that our Lady's sins were wiped away by the presence of Our Lord within her, or by her act of saying 'fiat mihi....'. One of these things one can be agnostic about.
So she wasn't Immaculately Conceived? Hmm.
Thurible
--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by chiltern_hundred:
I'm not sure about that one either, Laetare. I'd argue that our Lady's sins were wiped away by the presence of Our Lord within her, or by her act of saying 'fiat mihi....'. One of these things one can be agnostic about.
So she wasn't Immaculately Conceived? Hmm.
Thurible
Our Lady's Conception - Immaculate or otherwise - is obviously unique and very special, or it would not be given special place in the Church's Kalendar. With the possible exception of John the Baptist, no other saint has his or her conception commemorated.
--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Here (pdf) is the leaflet for our service.
I have had a look at this leaflet and it was obviously a very fine service, which is right up my street. However, one thing I do notice which is a subject for another thread, is that intinction is no longer allowed!? That is a new one on me and I wonder why.
--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
While looking up an old Missal for information about ember days I came across the following ;
7th dec.vigil of Immaculate Cwith its own Mass and gospel from Beginning of St Matthew
15th dec. Octave of Feast ,Mass as on the Feast day but read as the Last gospel that of the Appropriate ember Day ,should the Octave of the Feast fall on an ember Day.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Here (pdf) is the leaflet for our service.
Which hymnal do you use?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
With the possible exception of John the Baptist, no other saint has his or her conception commemorated.
I'm sure that the other day someone refered to the Greek Orthodox commemorating the Conception of St. Anne....
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
While looking up an old Missal for information about ember days I came across the following ;
7th dec.vigil of Immaculate Cwith its own Mass and gospel from Beginning of St Matthew
15th dec. Octave of Feast ,Mass as on the Feast day but read as the Last gospel that of the Appropriate ember Day ,should the Octave of the Feast fall on an ember Day.
So there was a vigil for IC in the old form? Is there still one in the Extraordinary Form? Why none in the modern rite? To protect Advent?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by chiltern_hundred:
I'm not sure about that one either, Laetare. I'd argue that our Lady's sins were wiped away by the presence of Our Lord within her, or by her act of saying 'fiat mihi....'. One of these things one can be agnostic about.
So she wasn't Immaculately Conceived? Hmm.
Thurible
Surely she was preserved from original sin by God's prevenient grace - that's what we have signed up to at ARCIC.
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Is there still one in the Extraordinary Form?
Not according to my missal. And not accoring to the S. Clement's ordo, which essentially follows the Roman Rite as it existed c. 1955. The 1921 Anglican Missal on the Internet Archive has it, though. So it would appear to have been abolished sometime between 1921 and 1955.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
However did he have the time between Masonic lodge meetings?
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
|
Posted
Delegated it to his Jewish speech-writer, probably.
Thurible
--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
The Missal I was quoting from with a Vigil and Octave Mass of the Immaculate Conception, describes itself as following the decrees of Pius V with the reforms of Pius X and the authority of Benedict XV as well as an Imprimatur from Stephanus Carton de Wiart, Bishop of Tournai in Belgium ,dated 7 January 1948.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
I've got an old Roman Missal that father gave me as a gift a while back. To tell the truth I've not really looked at it much but I did today to see what it says about Immaculate Conception.
Its like Forthview says - there really is a Vigil mass there for Immaculate Conception! This Missal has a date of 1910 in the front and has official approvals.
So there was a Vigil mass but now there isn't. But for Assumption there still is. What happened to the Vigil mass of the Immaculate Conception, and who makes these changes?
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Is there still one in the Extraordinary Form?
Not according to my missal. And not accoring to the S. Clement's ordo, which essentially follows the Roman Rite as it existed c. 1955. The 1921 Anglican Missal on the Internet Archive has it, though. So it would appear to have been abolished sometime between 1921 and 1955.
Not sure what you're referring to. The Vigil was commemorated on Saturday (Vigils were generally transferred backwards--anticipated--when they fell on a Sunday) in the Mass of S. Nicholas. The ordo calendar makes reference to this.
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
Right you are. I guess I'm still mastering the art of reading the S. Clement's ordo.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Interesting.
This, rather batty document, suggests it was that evil pagan "Pope" John XXIII who did away with it when he was busy letting Satan into the Vatican.
Thurible
Indeed. The site references a quote from Pope Benedict XIV, "Do not innovate anything; remain content with tradition." This would have been news to Pope S. Pius X, who ordered the wholesale reordering of the Roman Breviary, including elements which dated to the first era of recorded Christian liturgy!
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
|
Posted
The use of "Vigil" for anticipated Masses has caused untold confusion. The Saturday evening Mass of the Sunday is not, for example, a "Vigil Mass": it is a Mass of the Sunday, using the Sunday readings and propers. A Vigil Mass has its own readings and propers.
The current Roman Missal has just six Vigil Masses: Easter, Christmas, Pentecost, Ascension, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, and Ss. Peter & Paul. In the old Calendar there were additionally Vigils for the Epiphany, St Lawrence, All Saints and the Feasts of the Apostles.
The astute reader will notice that even Corpus Christi and the Sacred Heart do not have a Vigil. That's because it is an ancient list, and newer Feasts were not given Vigils. The exception was the Immaculate Conception, for which Pope Leo XIII granted a Vigil in 1879.
Originally all these Vigils would have been much like the Easter Vigil: lengthy celebrations through the night, preceded by fasting. The fasting rule resulted in much cavorting and feasting in anticipation, which caused that old misery St Jerome to shake his head and wag his finger disapprovingly!
A number of the Vigils went in 1962, and were not re-introduced in 1969. The Immaculate Conception was one of those. And in answer to Laetare - it's the Pope himself who promulgates these things.
Presumably St Clement's is correctly following the old rule, which stated that if a Feast with a Vigil was celebrated on a Monday, then the Vigil is observed on the Saturday.
--------------------
I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
|
Posted
John Paul II re-introduced the vigil of the Epiphany (With the singing of the kalends) in the 2002 Roman Missal.
Now, if we can just get started on getting those octaves back.....
--------------------
http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
|
Posted
This year's photographs of the Papa at the Column now up.
--------------------
I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
What happened to the Vigil mass of the Immaculate Conception, and who makes these changes?
I'm going to get paranoid if I carry on answering your questions and you keep ignoring them, you know.
Thurible
--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
With the possible exception of John the Baptist, no other saint has his or her conception commemorated.
I'm sure that the other day someone refered to the Greek Orthodox commemorating the Conception of St. Anne....
I may be wrong but I think it's the Conception of the Mother of God. I believe that old usage sees the conception being referred to as an act of the mother. So Joan's conception of her daughter could properly have been referred to as Joan's conception. I think that delivery was referred to in the same sort of way.
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
What happened to the Vigil mass of the Immaculate Conception, and who makes these changes?
Why do you need special texts for a vigil mass? It's the same mass, that's the whole point. Anyway, The Imm Con is not of obligation everywhere.
--------------------
"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
Posts: 697 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
|
Posted
Obviously you missed my post above - noting the difference between a Vigil Mass and an anticipated Mass.
--------------------
I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
The current Roman Missal has just six Vigil Masses: Easter, Christmas, Pentecost, Ascension, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, and Ss. Peter & Paul.
My copy of the current Roman Missal has a Vigil for the Assumption. Why Assumption and not IC?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
|
Posted
As I noted above, the list of Feasts with a Vigil is an ancient one, as is the Feast of the Assumption. The Immaculate Conception, however, has a chequered career and was not universally kept. It was only admitted to the Roman Calendar in the late fifteenth century by Pope Sixtus IV. Leo XIII gave it a Vigil. I'm not entirely sure why that was rescinded in 1962, but it's possibly out of a desire for simplification and a restoration of the older list of Vigil Masses. There was certainly a massive desire for simplification of the Liturgy well before the drastic pruning that happened by 1969.
And the snip you make from my quote shows I was speaking gobbledygook! I meant eight Feasts have Vigils, not six, and I forgot to inlude the Assumption ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) .
--------------------
I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cyprian:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
With the possible exception of John the Baptist, no other saint has his or her conception commemorated.
I'm sure that the other day someone refered to the Greek Orthodox commemorating the Conception of St. Anne....
I may be wrong but I think it's the Conception of the Mother of God. I believe that old usage sees the conception being referred to as an act of the mother. So Joan's conception of her daughter could properly have been referred to as Joan's conception. I think that delivery was referred to in the same sort of way.
You are correct. A bit like the Feast of the Annunciation - is it a Feast of our Lady or of our Lord? (rhetorical question, I know how you will answer that one ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ).
--------------------
I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
quote:
Originally posted by Cyprian:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
With the possible exception of John the Baptist, no other saint has his or her conception commemorated.
I'm sure that the other day someone refered to the Greek Orthodox commemorating the Conception of St. Anne....
I may be wrong but I think it's the Conception of the Mother of God. I believe that old usage sees the conception being referred to as an act of the mother. So Joan's conception of her daughter could properly have been referred to as Joan's conception. I think that delivery was referred to in the same sort of way.
You are correct. A bit like the Feast of the Annunciation - is it a Feast of our Lady or of our Lord? (rhetorical question, I know how you will answer that one ).
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Well, quite. Quite aside from my own Marian devition, it is treated as a Feast of the Mother of God in our kalendar, and doesn't get the special treatment that a Feast of the Lord would get, (unless you follow modern Greek practice which gives the honoured place of Feasts of the Lord to Feasts of the Mother of God as well ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) tut tut).
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
And the snip you make from my quote shows I was speaking gobbledygook!
If I only had a nickel for every time I heard a priest speaking gobbledygook ...
(But in all seriousness, I've never heard you speak or write gobbledygook, Fr. TT)
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
In the Book of Alternative Services, the Annunciation is a Feast of our Lord, but then so are the Visit of the BVM to Elizabeth and the Birth of Saint John the Baptist. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
[ 11. December 2008, 16:06: Message edited by: LQ ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
Thanks, Cyprian - I stand corrected!
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
The vigils referred to in copies of the Missal before 1962 and certainly before the mid 1950s would be Masses celebrated on the day previous to an important Feast.(There would not be any Masses after 1pm latest., at that time. )Often these days would be Fast days also (Christmas eve was traditionally a Fast day and that is why those in 'Catholic' countries who have the main christmas meal on Christmas eve have it without meat - in central europe the christmas eve meal has as its main course carp)
As TT so rightly pointed out,the vigil Masses now are real Vigil Masses celebrated the evening before some major Feast days and for fulfilling the obligation these Masses are quite acceptable.
Surely there still remain some Octaves but they are not really called that....
the Octave of Christmas is Mary,mother of God
the Octave of Epiphany is celebrated on a sunday as the Baptism of Christ
the Octave of Easter is divine Mercy sunday
(and doesn't Easter have an Octave of Octaves culminating in Pentecost ?)
the Octave of the Assumption is the Queenship of Mary.
I know that all the changes to the missal are done with the permission of the pope and his name is attached to any document, but he doesn't just sit in the Vatican and decide to change the Missal if there is nothing good on tv. There are the decrees of the Sacred congregation for divine worship,whose decrees would only come into force if the pope gives his approval.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
....but he doesn't just sit in the Vatican and decide to change the Missal if there is nothing good on tv.
Really? Sometimes, one wonders about that!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
|
Posted
I the Christmas and Easter octaves were still real octaves?
Anyway, one could sort-of-legally keep the old octaves, by way of loopholes.
--------------------
http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
quote:
The vigils referred to in copies of the Missal before 1962 and certainly before the mid 1950s would be Masses celebrated on the day previous to an important Feast.(There would not be any Masses after 1pm latest., at that time. )Often these days would be Fast days also
Now thats very interesting and I'd forgotten about that and jst thought these Vigil masses were the evening before but they are not they were earlier in the day. Thanks for that Forthview.
It also means that the Vigils had a distinctly different atmosphere then - it seems to me. Like it wasn't that feasting was being anticipated like it is with the Vigil masses (in a way) now.
I went back to the old missal which Father gave me, and it says this:
quote:
To enhance the the solemnity of the Feast of the Immacualte Conception of our Blessed Lady, Pope Leo XIII, enjoined that its eve should be set apart as a Vigil, or day of liturgical preparation for the keeping of the festival.
So the day before was like a getting ready. But thats not how it is now, quite, I think. maybe I'm wrong. I don't quite understand these remaining Vigil masses then. take Our lady's Assumption then. On the day before it seems you could have a Vigil mass (but at what time) and then an anticipated Mass of Feast - am I right - if so - that latter has to be in the evening. So the former (Vigil mass) wouldn't fulfil the obligation - right or wrong?
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
As far as i know for sundays and holydays the anticipated Mass may be celebrated anytime after midday the previous day.
For Sundays it is the Sunday Mass which is celebrated as the anticipated Mass but for certain Feast days like the Assumption and Ss Peter and Paul there is a special Vigil Mass which may be celebrated(but the anticipated Mass could be the Mass of the Day as well.
The anticipated Mass is usually called in english the 'Vigil'Mass. in Italian it is called a 'messa prefestiva' in German ' eine Vorabendsmesse' and in French 'une messe anticipee' So you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
So you are saying that in effect the anticipated mass is the Vigl mass - certainly for a Sunday. But there are some days when a different specific Vigil mass can be used - but they are equivalent.
So the Vigil mass has changed a lot then. No longer Pope leo XIII's: quote:
Its eve should be set apart as a Vigil, or day of liturgical preparation for the keeping of the festival.
- When Nicene creed not said and proper preface not used (or so my Missal for Vigil of Immaculate Conception indicates).
Now its just Mass of the day on the day before in the evening. Is this right?
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
The days and years on our planet are regulated by the movement of the planet round the sun.
The dates of days and the times of days,months and years are regulated by man.
We have discussed recently the change of the date of the beginning of the new year from 25th March to 1st January following on the reforms of the calendar by pope Gregory XIII.
As far as dates are concerned, the Jewish calendar marks the appearance of the evening star and nightfall as the beginning of the new day.
We now make 12 midnight the beginning of the new day/date.
The church has ,in a sense ,kept to the older Jewish custom by having the First Vespers of a Feast to mark the beginning of that day.
I may be wrong but I think that Saturday evening Vespers are still important in the Byzantine rite.
Since the Catholic church has allowed Mass to be celebrated at any hour of day or night,less than 20 years after this permission it became common to celebrate not only the ecclesiastical hours but also the Eucharist on the afternoon or evening before the accepted date of a religious festival,be it Sunday or Holyday.
In the legalistic way of the Roman church it is normally accepted that the Mass can be celebrated(but need not be) any time after midday on the day before the Sunday or Holyday.
In the anglophone world these Masses are often referred to as Vigil Masses.
For some solemnities there are special Vigil Masses with their own prayers and readings. They provide a greater variety of readings,if the priest wishes to make use of them. In the final analysis the Mass is the Mass is the Mass.
To give the example of Christmas,there is now throughout Advent a special Mass for each day including ,of course,Christmas Eve.
There is also for Solemnity of the Nativity,a Vigil Mass of Christmas which can be celebrated after noon on 24th December,plus the three Masses of Christmas which all priests,according to my Missal of 1974,may celebrate or concelebrate,provided that they are celebrated at the proper time.
So no more three Masses ,one after the other.
As far as the faithful are concerned attendance at any one of these Masses would fulfil the Christmas 'obligation'.
Here is a personal memory. Our parish has normally a Mass on saturday at 12 noon.It is not an anticipated Sunday Mass.One day about 50 rugby players appeared 10 minutes into the Mass.Itturned out to be an australian Catholic college travelling around GB who wished to attend a Sunday Mass. they had 'phoned upthe administrative HQ of the diocese to find out when was the first afternoon Mass in Edinburgh and were given the address of our parish.In one sense they were lucky as there was no singing and no long sermon.The Good Lord will no doubt reward them for their efforts,even although this was not a sunday Mass.
Anyway I have been 'assured' by a spanish friend who goes regularly to sunday Mass that ,if you are travelling ,the recitation of one Our Father fulfils the Sunday obligation.(Via con Dios !)
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
|
Posted
If you can't attend Mass due to travel, you are excused the Sunday obligation. No one is obligated to the impossible. Not that I'm going to try to stop your friend from saying their Our Father!
What are people doing for La Virgen today? I haven't been privy to any of the planning for the big Mass this evening, but I've heard rumors of Mariachis and roses for Mary and all the attenders. I will report back.
--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
So Immacualate Conception has passed, unless you keep the octave. Is there another feast of Our lady in Advent? Father says one of the Sundays is associated with her - any of the weekdays I wonder. maybe when she features in the Holy Gospel.
The Pope has said:
"..We turn our gaze and heart to Him, in spiritual union with the Virgin Mary, Our Lady of Advent. Let us place our hand in hers and enter with joy into this new season of grace that God grants his Church for the good of the whole of humanity. Like Mary and with her maternal assistance, let us make ourselves docile to the action of the Holy Spirit, so that the God of Peace might completely sanctify us, and the Church might become a sign and an instrument of hope for all men."
I was looking this up on Google and found mention of a 'Mary candle' in Advent, but not an explanation of what its about has anyone else info on it.
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
Well, it was Our Lady of Guadalupe today.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
Oh yes, I forgot about that - thats special in America isn't it. Is it kept with special goings on?
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Well, it was Our Lady of Guadalupe today.
And her Expectation--in some places--on the eighteenth.
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
Gosh! I didn't know about the Expectation of Our lady, which seems a very appropriate feast, but seldom observed nowadays it seems.
This guy's web blog has a really good bit about it.
I wonder if anyone here will be going to a mass for that day?
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
Our Lady is traditionally the theme of the readings for the Fourth Sunday in Advent, IIRC. The Roman rite, at any rate, has Luke's account of the Annunciation as the Gospel reading.
Ian J.
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
|
Posted
I came across this Novena and icon on the idea of Our lady of Advent. Click here.
And here is a great introduction to the Feast of the Expectation of Our lady, written by a priest. It ends:
The Holy Virgin Mary, “Our Lady of Expectation”, is a great educator of the Christian family. Christmas is a family celebration. We all want to be home for Christmas. She teaches us how to love and enjoy our own humanity and the humanity of her Son, we celebrate on Christmas Day. Maranatha! Come, Lord Jesus!
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
|
Posted
The Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe as observed at my parish (Catholic, Latin Rite):
The celebrations began yesterday on the eve of the feast. A novena was observed in the parish and ended yesterday with a gathering of parish groups and the rest of the faithful for an evening procession through the neighborhood. I am told attendance was about 2000.
Celbrations continued today, beginning with the singing of Las Mañanitas this morning at 4 AM, soon followed by Mass which was celbrated by a priest and at least 2 deacons (I couldn't see clearly from where I stood) in the pre-dawn darkness. The Mass was held outdoors under a tent set up in the parking lot because our church building is too small to hold all the faithful. I'd estimate attendance at around at least 2000, probably more and it nearly filled the parking lot. In past years I've seen it even more full.
Music was lead by by a mariachi , two kinds of incense were used*, Aztec dancers led the Presentation of the Gifts, and several prayers and the psalm response was chanted. The first reading was the "Woman clothed with the Sun" passage from Revelation and the Gospel was the Visitation passage from St. Luke. You can see the readings at this link . The homily was pretty good and touched on the motherhood of the Blessed Virgin, Christ Our Savior, and our need to imitate St. Juan Diego as evangelizers, among other things.
Following Mass people gathered for free champurrado (a chocolate drink) and pan dulce (Mexican sweet bread). A business owner gave out free tamales in fulfillment of a vow he made. Just oustide the parish grounds street vendors sold more food & drink as well as flowers and religious articles. Roses and candles filled the space in front of the shrine underneath the tent and in front of the permanent outdoor shrine we have to the Virgin. The roses will soon fill the indoor shrine we have as well.
There was another Mass at noon today and this evening the celebrations will continue with more music and singing and another Mass which will probably be done much the same way as this morning. Since it's a Friday night I bet attendance will be huge. More food will be given out and roses will be blessed and given to the faithful to take home. The outdoor shrine will surely be ablaze with candles. Next week begin the Posadas ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) .
* we had regular "church" incense and and the dancers used copal , a resin that's been used in religious ceremonies since pre-hispanic times.
--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
