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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Feasts of Mary
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SeraphimSarov
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# 4335
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Posted
Pancho,
thank you for a wonderful description of this Glorious Feast! Wish I could have been in your parish for Las Mananitas! ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
Yes, Pancho that was fab. Lovely to hear about. Great that the day wasn't just about liturgy but also about celebrations - special food etc.
Is anyone observing the Feast of the Expectation of Our Lady at their church, and if so how?
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
I really really meant to go to Las Mañanitas... honestly... but I slept through them. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Mass in the evening was great though. No incense, but we did have mariachis and a new image of Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe to bless. We had a procession with it at the end and laid roses in front of it. We had all the good songs, too: Las Apariciones Guadalupanas and Adiós O Virgen de Guadalupe.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
After the pope's outing on 8th December he had another special treat today on 3rd Sunday of Advent - namely to bless the 'bambinelli'- small figures of the Baby Jesus to be put into cribs/creches at Christmas.
Thousands of children from various parishes of Rome came to St Peter's square to have them blessed at midday by the holy Father.
Trying to link this with Feasts of Mary (who was after all involved with the birth of Jesus) it reminds me that in this time the children of Rome come to the church of Santa Maria in Aracoeli to recite poems in honour of the child Jesus. This used to be done in front of a famous stauette of the Bambino Gesu until it was stolen from the church a few years ago and I don't think that it has been seen since.
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
Thanks Forthview, How do you know these lovely customs - you are so good at them ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
It would be absolutley fab to see a photo of the Holy Father doing this lovely blessing. I had a Google of it but nothing came up.
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
The holy Father was standing at his window overlooking St Peter's square at his regular sunday blessing and the children and others were down below holding up the figures.
I am no use with computers etc but the midday angelus is broadcast each sunday by Rai 1 tv plus it is carried on various other Csatholic channels. I would imagine that EWTN broadcast it.
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
Laetare, if you want to see the blessing of the 'bambinelli' ,click on www.ktotv.com and then look for 'nos emissions' and click on 'angelus a rome' and you will have the ceremony. The pope will speak mainly in Italian, but there will be a running commentary in French, until the end whent the pope speaks in French,English ,German,Spanish and Polish,before returning to Italian.
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
Thank you Forthview for that. I tried what you said but it wouldn't play thorugh real player and said I had to download something else and I'm always frightened to do that. Maybe someone can point to photos of the event.
How long has the Holy Father been doing this blessing? It must be great if you live in Rome and can just go along and see this.
On the Feast of the Expectation of Our Lady. I can't find it in my copy of the English Missal. I have read it may be mainly a Spanish feast, and is like the Annunciation in Advent. That seems a great idea, to remind people of the Annunciation and Our Lady waiting - expecting - in Advent.
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
I think it would depend on when the Missal was printed.Is it a roman missal or an anglican missal ? In pre Vat. 2 'daily' missals you would probably find the feast mentioned. In nmore modern missals the advent feria would probably take precedence.
sorry you didn't have joy with the link.i also get worried about pressing the wrong buttons !!
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
Still can't find 'propers' for the feast tomorrow of Our Lady of Expectation, I've tried online but maybe not hard enough and they ain't in my Missal!
It seems a shame beacuse it seems so right to keep it.
But I have found this lovely little piece by Deacon John. From what I can make out he is a RC Deacon of the old school.
His piece is here.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
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Posted
I only keep feasts that the Universal Church proposes should be kept - I don't go round hunting for obscure regional celebrations.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
I thought there was a votive of Our Lady of Expectation though that could be kept, but maybe not.
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Magic Wand
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# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
Still can't find 'propers' for the feast tomorrow of Our Lady of Expectation, I've tried online but maybe not hard enough and they ain't in my Missal!
It seems a shame beacuse it seems so right to keep it.
The propers for the Feast of the Expectation of the B.V.M. are found in the aliquibus locis section of the missal. The only edition of the English Missal to print that in full was the second, in 1923. The 1958 edition only prints the Masses proper to England and Wales and Scotland (but not Ireland); I don't believe that Our Lady's Expectation was ever generally kept in any of those places. This was not true of the U.S., there the feast occurred on a number of local calendars.
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The Silent Acolyte
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# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Triple Tiara sticks in the mud:
I only keep feasts that the Universal Church proposes should be kept - I don't go round hunting for obscure regional celebrations.
Well, that's certainly quite dull of you. Where do you think the new saints and feasts come from?
Kick up your heels occasionally. Get out some. Have a bit of fun.
[ 17. December 2008, 13:24: Message edited by: Prosfonesis ]
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
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Posted
Well, being an RC I don't have to worry about these things because they get decided for me. We have a lovely big office in Rome where these things come from. That old canard of celebrations springing up locally just does not apply anymore.
And in all honesty, there are so many new days being thrown at us, I can't keep up. Each time they give us a new day, we have to thumb through the Missal finding appropriate Commons - because you don't reprint the Missal each time a new Feast is added.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
Still can't find 'propers' for the feast tomorrow of Our Lady of Expectation, I've tried online but maybe not hard enough and they ain't in my Missal!
It seems a shame beacuse it seems so right to keep it.
The propers for the Feast of the Expectation of the B.V.M. are found in the aliquibus locis section of the missal. The only edition of the English Missal to print that in full was the second, in 1923. The 1958 edition only prints the Masses proper to England and Wales and Scotland (but not Ireland); I don't believe that Our Lady's Expectation was ever generally kept in any of those places. This was not true of the U.S., there the feast occurred on a number of local calendars.
Is this also where SCC found propers for OL Guadalupe?
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Our Lady of Guadalupe's propers shouldn't be hard to find! She was declared Patroness of the Americas by Pius XII. Her day was raised to the rank of a feast in all countries of the Americas in 1999. The breviary has a collect for her and the Mass propers can be found in the Sacramentary Supplement (1994).
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Our Lady of Guadalupe's propers shouldn't be hard to find! She was declared Patroness of the Americas by Pius XII. Her day was raised to the rank of a feast in all countries of the Americas in 1999. The breviary has a collect for her and the Mass propers can be found in the Sacramentary Supplement (1994).
Can you point me to her propers in either the Anglican or a particular edition of the English Missal, by page number?
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
I don't think Anglicans are very good at keeping local Mary feasts so I don't think many US Anglicans will be marking Our Lady of Guadeloupe. But, hey, maybe someone here will tell me I'm wrong on that one.
So I don't think you'll find those in an Anglican book. Its a pity really. Anglo Catholics and Anglicans can be very English in their devotions - even with so many Anglicans being black.
Our lady of Walsingham as a feast isn't actually much observed in churches in England, even though its the big Church of England shrine.
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
I don't think Anglicans are very good at keeping local Mary feasts so I don't think many US Anglicans will be marking Our Lady of Guadeloupe. But, hey, maybe someone here will tell me I'm wrong on that one.
My own parish did, but we used a translation of the 1962 Roman Missal propers in a pinch. S. Clement's Philadelphia, an English Missal parish, also did, which is why I was asking Magic Wand their source for the propers.
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
Today is the Feast of the Expectation of Our lady.
This blog is called 'The Expectation of Our Lady' and has useful info on the feast, and artwork too.
Has anyone been to a mass for the feast today?
Its interesting that the feast is seven days before Christmas day. I've been wondering if any other feasts are planned to be seven days before another feast.
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
Today is the Feast of the Expectation of Our lady.
Has anyone been to a mass for the feast today?
I have. The propers are quite similar to the votive Mass of Our Lady in Advent, and I promise I'll get them--and those of Our Lady of Guadalupe--for Brian M soon.
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Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
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Posted
Now thats interesting Magic W. I thought the propers were like those of the annunciation. What colour was used - White or Purple?
Now, going back to the blessing of bambinos for cribs by the Holy Father. This is what the Holy Father said this Sunday during the Angelus talk he gives.
quote:
it gives me real pleasure to renew the beautiful tradition of the Blessing of the Christ Child figurines, the miniature statues of the Baby Jesus to be placed in the manger.
I address you in particular, dear boys and girls of Rome, who have come this morning with your Baby Jesus figurines that I now bless
Look at the first part - 'It gives me great pleasure to renew the beautiful tradition...' so has it not been done for a while. (Or is it a translation thing). I'm still hoping to see a pic of it.
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
Now thats interesting Magic W. I thought the propers were like those of the annunciation. What colour was used - White or Purple?
White.
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Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
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Posted
[url= http://tinyurl.com/ExpectationOfOurLady1]Here[ /url] it is suggest violet is the colour for the Feast of the Expectation of Our Lady.
One of the Google references I looked at said that today's ferast is mpopular with expectant mothers.
I guess that is partly what makes it a good feast. The annunciation is OK but thats more about Jesus being announced. Today we can think of Our Lady awaiting the birth - expecting.
[Edit: to fix scroll-lock-breaking link.]
[ 19. December 2008, 14:17: Message edited by: Hart ]
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
Well ,he did it last year also but he is 'renewing 'it this year.
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Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
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Posted
hey why did that link come out all funny? Any way what it says is in a kalendar and says the colour for the Expectation is Violet, not white.
Back to the Holy father for a moment. I see he gave an Angelus address for Immacualte Conception - so its not just Sundays he appears to recite the angelus then. I didn't know he came out at other times too.
[ 18. December 2008, 21:33: Message edited by: Laetare ]
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
The Holy Father recites the angelus publicly on sundays and all religious Holydays of obligation of the Universal church, irrespective of whether they are public holidays in surrounding Italy or not. Foe example Ascension Thursday is celebrated in Italy on the following sunday but the Ascension is celebrated in the Vatican on thursday and the Holy Father gives the angelus address.
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leo
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# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
I see he gave an Angelus address for Immacualte Conception - so its not just Sundays he appears to recite the angelus then. I didn't know he came out at other times too.
What? The pope has come out? Joy to all LGBT Catholics"!
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Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
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Posted
Thank you Forthview, once again v helpful. He also says it publically on Easter Monday doesn't he?
The Holy Father recites publically wherever he is - is that right? Like in July he said it on a Sunday he was in Sydney. Now on that day was the Angelus publically said by some body else in St Peters square in Rome? Does the Pope say it publically wherever he is every Sunday even if he is on holiday?
That point you made about Ascension in the vatican and in Italy interested me. I thought the Pope was Bishop of Rome, so dopes that mean the Vatican is not in the diocese of Rom,e - and that the Diocese of rome is keeping a different calendar to the vatican at times.
I know this isn't quite on topic here, but its v. interesting.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Here are the photos you are looking for Laetare, courtesy of L'Osservatore Romano. (Vatican site - can take a while to load!)
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
It loaded lickety-split for me. You should hector British Telecom, or whomever, to replace that soup can 'n' string InterTubes connection with fiber.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
It seemed to slow down at times, but is fast just now.
But buggerations, it's one of those sites that doesn't link to the specified page! Grrrr.
So here's what you do:
Click on the bottom left link that says: Giorno per giorno l'attività di Papa Benedetto XVI documentata dai fotografi de L'Osservatore Romano.
Then keeping going down the pages till you get to about page 96 (at time of writing - it is bound to change by tomorrow). That will show the pictures of kids holding up assorted bambinos.
Or probably more simply: click on "Ricerca Semplice" in the left margin. When the page comes up bring down the dates next to "Data scatto: dal" and call up 14-12-2008 and again at "al" the same date. Then click the button which says "Avvia ricerca". That will bring up the same pictures.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Or click right at the top of the page for "English version" - which I just spotted - you could probably then work it all out for yourself.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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cg
Shipmate
# 14332
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
Today is the Feast of the Expectation of Our lady.
The propers are quite similar to the votive Mass of Our Lady in Advent.
Some information on the propers is given here. More like the Annunciation, as has already been said.
Posts: 136 | From: Antipodes | Registered: Dec 2008
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
re. the pope's angelus address, I am not sure about Easter Monday,but why not ,it is a public holiday in Italy !
The pope generally recites the angelus wherever he is on sundays and special Feast days.
Mention was made of Sydney. He also makes the address at Castel Gandolfo during the summer in a much more intimate setting where there are only a few thousand to be admitted to the courtyard of the papal residence.
During the time of the pope's summer holiday at Brixen/Bressanone in South Tirol/Alto Adige he was able to give the bulk of his address in German,which was beautifully 'off the cuff' as normally he reads his address.The actual prayers of the Angelus are always said in Latin. Re the diocese of rome and Italy,there are a number of dioceses which go over political frontiers - some in Ireland and some previously on the German/Polish frontier. Rome is,of course , in Italy and the city of rome has the same public holidays as Italy. Not all traditional Holy days of the Catholic church are public holidays in Italy sso the liturgical celebration is moved to a sunday - Ascension and Corpus Christi are two of these dates . Within the Vatican ,which is geographically within the city of Rome,but politically an independent state,the traditional dates are kept and the pope will appear at his window to recite the Angelus.
To go to the general theme of the moment ,on christmas Day the pope will go to the central balcony above the basilica of St Peter to recite the angelus and to gove the solemn blessing 'urbi et orbi' (to the city and the world).
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
Any way what it says is in a kalendar and says the colour for the Expectation is Violet, not white.
Not exactly. The quote is:
18 Tu Feria. The Expectation of Our Lady. violet.
Here, violet refers back to the feria, and not to the (presumably local in some places) feast.
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laetare:
I don't think Anglicans are very good at keeping local Mary feasts so I don't think many US Anglicans will be marking Our Lady of Guadeloupe.
I know there are many countries where it still isn't well known I'm not sure you can exactly call the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe a local feast. As Hart mentioned her day was raised to rank of Feast in all the countries of (the) America(s) in 1999. According to Adherents.org , of the 10 countries with the most Catholics, 5 are in the Western Hemisphere including the top 3 (Brazil, Mexico, and the U.S). According to Wikipedia after the Vatican the shrine receives the most pilgrims, more than Fatima or Lourdes.
There's a connection between Our Lady of Guadalupe and Our Lady of the Expectation in that the Virgin of Guadalupe is depicted pregnant.
A few years ago the blog "The Inn at the End of the World" posted an excerpt from Dom Gueranger's "Liturgical Year" about the Feast of the Expectation. You can read it here . A commenter at the New Liturgical Movement blog mentioned that the feast was also included in the old Carmelite rite.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Yesterday's Mass was as Marian as it gets at the Church of the Nearest Sunday. The collect, secret, and postcommunion in the Book of Alternative Services all explicitly recalled Our Lady. The homilist wove the First Lesson, the Canticle (the Magnificat, in lieu of a psalm), and the Gospel together, though he stopped short of identifying Mary as the Ark of the Covenant. The choir sang the Ave Maria to Victoria during Communion, on the chancel steps.
Setting: Missa Quarti Toni by Victoria (but Sanctus to Merbecke).
Hymns:
Introit: "Hail to the Lord's anointed" (Crüger)
Offertory: "Tell out, my soul" (Woodlands)
Communion: "The God whom earth and sea and sky" (O Amor Quam Ecstaticus, which I'd not heard before)
Final: "People, look east! The time is near" (Besançon)
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
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Posted
January 1st is the Solemnity of Mary the Mother of God in some places.
Was wondering if thats what you are observing at your church on that day, and if so in what way?
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
A Solemnity is a feast of the highest rank in the Latin Church, so it'll be a solemnity in many places . We're having Masses on the day and the eve of the feast.
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Knopwood
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# 11596
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Posted
Last year, I attended a Sung Latin Mass (ordinary form) at the Toronto Oratory for the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God. This year, I've got a feeling I'll be too hungover so to do. I will, however, be keeping the Eve of the Circumcision with a Te Deum and Festal Mass in an Anglican parish church.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
It's a HDO in the US, but not in England and Wales (a holy day of opportunity instead, I guess). Given that I'm in England for the holidays and plan on being hung-over, I'll probably just say my office.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Our little place is having a Mass at 10.00am* on Thursday, at which most members of the Cell of OLW will be present, along with some visitors, I hope.
Last year we had an attendance of 21 (which fills our Lady Chapel nicely), but with a lot of illness around at the moment I am not realistically expecting more than 15 or so (though I am quite happy to be pleasantly surprised!).
It will be a Solemn Low Mass with Hymns ( Ye who own the faith of Jesus, Immaculate Mary (three verses) and perhaps one other).
Ian J.
* Yes, I know - middle of the bl**dy night......I shall suggest that we tack at least another half-hour on to that time next year, if not more.....
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
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Posted
10am Thursday is our habitual weekly weekday Eucharist, which will be kept as usual this week - as the Naming & Circumcision of OLJC, it says here. However, Mother Retired-NSM is celebrating while Management is away, so it may well get a Marian slant. It is held in the Lady Chapel, and I will dress herself up and add a few extra blue votives.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Eddy
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# 3583
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Posted
quote:
It will be a Solemn Low Mass with Hymns
I've not heard of one of those Bishops Finger, sounds fun.
Will the Mass be of the feast of the Mother of God.
I've heard this is one of the oldest feast of Our lady but its also a bit of a revival, I think. But I may be wrong - maybe it has a continuous history - anyone know?
[ 29. December 2008, 08:31: Message edited by: Laetare ]
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Solemn Low Mass with Hymns is not a name found in Ritual Notes!
It's what our place (tongue in cheek) calls a Low Mass jazzed up a bit by the singing of hymns (Introit, Offertory and Post-communion). There's usually just priest and one server at the sharp end, but there will on this occasion be a few more candles around the Chapel's statue of Our Lady. We could also robe up another server and have incense as well, but there's not too much space in the Chapel for that sort of thing.
And yes, it will be a Mass of Mary, Mother of God (and I expect Father will vest in our lovely white and blue chasuble). I think it's been established on another thread that this is indeed the original Marian feast.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Eddy
Shipmate
# 3583
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Posted
Oh, thanks for that, mate - not seen that thread about Jan 1st as original Mary feast - can anyone please point me to it.
I lookede in my English Missal and its not in there for January 1st.
Posts: 3237 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
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Posted
Sorry, I can't pinpoint exactly where the ref. to Jan 1st is to be found - but IIRC I've read somewhere else on this board that Jan 1st was re-introduced as the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, by the late John XXIII. Which, I suppose, means it wouldn't get into the English Missal.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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