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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Germaphobes and Communion
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
I've heard from my parishioners on numerous occasions a queasiness about spreading germs via celebrating Holy Communion. One person even suggested the celbrants wear those disposable serving gloves they use in cafeterias.
It doesn't matter the form - common loaf served by a celebrant or pinched off by a worshiper (which I don't do), or wafers or little squares served or picked up. I hear about "we don't know where those hands have been."
As for a common cup - holy cow! Even though you only dip a tiny portion of the bread or wafer into the cup, they object to the germiness.
It's only been 2 churches that have these issues, and I understand that there are a lot of elderly people in those churches and they don't want to get sick, but I wonder how wide-spread this germaphobia is.
I've compromised and I keep a bottle of hand sanitizer underneath the pulpit and rub it on my hands right before serving. Then we use the wee cuppies for the juice so people just take one themselves. I prefer the common cup, but Jesus doesn't say how to do it; he just says to do it.
How do you all address the sanitation issue in your churches?
[ 29. August 2009, 10:54: Message edited by: dj_ordinaire ]
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I've been waiting for this thread to turn up.
It's my contention that spreading germs via the Elements is proof that Christ is truly human.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
More seriously, there has been a tendency in the United Church of Canada to ditch the traditional Wee Cuppies and bread cubes for a loaf and common cup. (I cannot bring myself to utter the word "Chalice".)
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) Raging liturgical innovators.
Some Elders on the Session were concerned that our numerous Octogenarian Brigade would catch something awful. This isn't hypochondria since I have a family member who is severely asthmatic, and catches peumonia at the drop of a hat.
The Session moved us to Intinction.
Sorry, that still doesn't take care of it. Food Safety 101. People are dirtier then you think.
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
So back we went to Wee Cuppies and Bread Cubes.
Before anyone raises the point, no, we don't have an Altar Rail and we don't have the Ministers or Elders place the elements on a communicant's tongue.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
At my church a bottle of hand sanitizer is set discretely off to the side, which the celebrant uses before approaching the altar to celebrate Communion. As for the cup, get over it- if you're that afraid of germs, just take the bread. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Zach
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Alcohol in a metal cup is very unlikely to spread germs. The bread is the only thing people should be worrying about. If it's carefully placed in the hands or on the tongue of the recipient by the minister, the only person you need to worry about being germy is the minister. Hand sanitizer might be sensible. People tearing bits off a loaf sounds like the only real possible source of recipient to recipient spreading.
TBH, shaking hands is probably much more risky.
[ 09. October 2008, 21:01: Message edited by: Hart ]
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
There are many many Orthodox Christians, and not just in this century, but throughout the centuries. Many are sick. There are many hospitals. Everyone receives communion from the same Holy Chalice, using the same Holy Spoon. And at the end, the priest receives everything that is left, using the same Holy Spoon.
"Behold, I walk towards Divine Communion
O Creator, let me not be burnt by communicating,
for Thou art Fire, consuming the unworthy
but cleanse me from every spot."
"Be awed, O man, when you see the deifying Blood
It is coal that burns the unworthy
The Body is God's and it both deifies me and nourishes me
It deifies the spirit and wondrously nourishes the mind."
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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
If you read the clergy appointments section in The Church Times, where it tells you the age of clergy who have died, not how very old most of them are. They have been doing the ablutions but have not died an early death.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
The only time I've been concerned was when I was chalice bearing at a funeral with many non-church-goers in attendance. Most of them, having watched someone else, held out the wafer for me to intinct and place on their tongues. This works well with people who are used to it. But with this bunch, many of them practically licked my fingers. And it was the height of the flu season. As soon as Communion was over I washed thoroughly in the Sacristy.
During cold and flu season I'm more concerned about the spread of germs during the Peace than at Communion.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
If you're using something strong enough, surely it cuts down on germs?!
[No grape guice!]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
During cold and flu season I'm more concerned about the spread of germs during the Peace than at Communion.
Let's see, first we "pass the peace" shaking hands with a dozen people some of whom may not have washed their hands that day yet, some of whom have sneezed or coughed into their hands, some of the kids - well, you know kids and dirt. Then the preacher picks up the bread bringing to it the germs of the dozen of so people s/he did the peace thing with. Then the wine or grape juice is served in an earthen vessel.
Yes I like when the preacher openly and thoroughly washes his/her hands with sanitizer while saying some of the prayers, and yes I like the little cuppies. Ye old "silver kills germs" doesn't work well when it's an earthen vessel.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
.... which is precisely why one shouldn't use an earthen vessel.
This all sounds like a churchy version of Jack Nicholson's "As good as it gets".
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
I think bread cubes and little clear plastic cough-medicine-style cuppettes are loathesome (YMMV, etc, etc), but, aside from that, there is absolutely no evidence that anyone has ever caught anything by drinking wine from a precious-metal chalice. As discussed on numerous occasions, the fortified wine helps to kill germs, as does the precious metal.
As long as those handling the elements have clean hands (if not pure hearts), I don't think it's a genuine issue.
Ross
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
At my church a bottle of hand sanitizer is set discretely off to the side, which the celebrant uses before approaching the altar to celebrate Communion. As for the cup, get over it- if you're that afraid of germs, just take the bread.
Zach
Uh, some of us hold to the position that the Sacrament is not complete until both Elements have been received. Receiving only one is definitely not the norm.
beachpsalms can give a better interpretation on this than me.
We also use grape juice, those some UCCan congregations are moving to wine. So enough with the pining for port already.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Well, SPK, one can hardly help it if you guys decide not to follow the historic custom of the Universal Church. Precious metal "cup" and fermented fruit of the vine, please. And who are protestants to suddenly proclaim that the Risen Christ isn't entirely present under one species only? I haven't noticed that either Roman Catholics or Anglicans are exactly dropping dead like flies as a result of their Communion practices.
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ChaliceGirl
Shipmate
# 13656
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Posted
Just another point:
The priest isn't the only one who touches the bread. For instance, in my church the hosts are handled by the Altar Guild who place the hosts in the ciborium before the service starts. So you better hope the Altar Guilds' hands are clean, too.
I just "throw caution to the wind" and take the host in the palm, then to my mouth, and the chalice to my lips. I can't get all paranoid about germs. I probably will be at much more risk for catching something at my job (in a hospital), or out in public at a store, etc than at church on Sunday.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
And who are protestants to suddenly proclaim that the Risen Christ isn't entirely present under one species only?
Nitpicking, I know, and you already know this undoubtedly Lietuvos, but a blanket statement cannot be made about all Protestants in this instance.
Lutherans have no doubt about the efficacy of receiving under one species; it's simply not the ideal way.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
(I'm probably taking the bait, but I can't help myself)
You do realize that I utterly reject the pronouncements of the Council of Trent to which you refer, and believe that the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper must consist of both elements? This is straightforward Presbyterianism, and the United Church of Canada's Eucharistic Theology is drawn almost straight from Calvin via the Kirk and the undivided Presbyterian Church in Canada.
Who are Protestants? Well, as MartinL said we aren't a completely unified group, but I would say we are the Body of Christ, the People of God, and the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Anyway, we've had multiple threads on differing Communion practices and theology.
:shrug: Semper Reformanda.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I think that if this is all people have got to worry about, they need to get out more.
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
Or stay at home, then they can simply worry about their own germs. It's always what I can catch not what I can pass on.
Satan will be skating to work on the day that I have a bottle of antiseptic goo stashed in the sacristy cupboard.
Immediately before vesting I wash my hands thoroughly with soap and water! Not being in the habit of picking my nose or fiddling with myself in public, and having a well-cleaned church thanks to our army of willing volunteers, I believe my hands remain substantially untarnished.
At the lavabo, they are thoroughly rinsed in clean water and properly dried - no ceremonial dribble here!
That has been my custom for 28 years and I haven't slain anyone yet.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
How do you all address the sanitation issue in your churches?
We don't address it as far as I know. Or at any rate we don't discuss it. I've never heard it raised once in church. The only people who talk about it seem to be online.
In the CofE its common cup, real wine (always), and either real bread (mostly in more evangelical churches) or wafers (at the higher end).
You put the bread in the communicants hand (maybe directly into the mouth in the very most candle-powered places), intinction is very rare but not unknown.
You either hand the cup to the communicant (lower down the candle and MOTR) or tip it into their mouth (more common at the catholic end of things end). Each time you rotate it a little and wip the place the previous person sipped with a cloth.
Because, er, well, that's we way we do it.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Thorough washing of the hands with soap and water for at least 20 secs will shift MRSA and other bacteria. Alcohol hand cleaners won't do this. To time the minimum of 20 secs, sing the first verse and chorus of Yankee Doodle to yourself. All this I learnt in the NHS!
You know, I just never think about catching anything from receiving Communion. I'm there to encounter Jesus. The implications of Holy Communion are so immense that they completely overwhelm any possible worries about "sanitation".
I do acknowledge OTOH the possibility of transmitting germs if I am sick. If I've got active symptoms of a cold, etc I decline the Chalice and usually will receive the Host in my hands rather than on my tongue at such times. Yes, this is a sort of disconnect and a logical inconsistency. I don't think that I will become sick by receiving the Eucharist, but I don't want to enhance anyone else's risks if I am sensibly ill. I really doubt, however, that anyone gets sick with human maladies from receiving the Eucharist.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
I wouldn't worry about spreading germs via the common cup. Wine has been used for millenia to clean and dress wounds, the alcohol having strong antiseptic properties. I'm sure the people back then didn't understand that, but they knew it worked.
We had a Pastor who was quite the germaphobe. He would discreetly slip into the sacristy during the Offertory and wipe his hands with and alcohol wipe, like the ones your Dr. uses to cleanse the skin before you get an injection. After the distribution he again disappeared into the sacristy and used another wipe on his his hands......but then he didn't like to be touched and he avoided touching people. He favored patting people on the back as opposed to a hand shake.
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I'm no germaphobe, but let's be fair. Lord knows if you're in a crowded bar you don't grab a random beer off the counter and take a nip. But us Christians do not only that, but take a nip from the cup that 150 some odd people have used. Whatever the antiseptic properties of silver, it's certainly best to just not think about the dozens of moist, germy lips that have slobbered on that cup you're sucking on next Sunday. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
I have been reading with great interest (shock would probably be more appropriate)... Seriously, am I the only one here to think that it doesn't make any sense at all to think in these terms for the Body and Blood of Christ? I mean, if I was to depend on silver and alcohol, I wouldn't bother with the whole thing. It's unthinkable for me that this discussion even takes place...
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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
I don't understand Andrew's post unless there is some idea that it is somehow impossible for the body of Christ to be mixed with anything else.
As far as I can see, add some germs to the body of Christ and you would have body of Christ plus germs. Christ would have his effect on the recipient and the germs would have their effect.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I'm no germaphobe, but let's be fair. Lord knows if you're in a crowded bar you don't grab a random beer off the counter and take a nip. But us Christians do not only that, but take a nip from the cup that 150 some odd people have used. Whatever the antiseptic properties of silver, it's certainly best to just not think about the dozens of moist, germy lips that have slobbered on that cup you're sucking on next Sunday.
Well, Zach, I just don't think you can get sick from receiving the Eucharist, at least in the sense of the transmission of human infections. It's interesting to me that when I'm in the pews or otherwise fraternising with my fellow worshippers that I might worry about catching an airborne infection from someone who's obviously ill, but this fear disappears entirely in receiving Holy Communion. That's just the farthest thing from my mind. And I agree with Andrew that this actually isn't about the precious metal of the Cup or the alcohol content in the consecrated wine. We use those arguments to persuade people, but it's really all to do with faith in the Sacrament.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ORGANMEISTER:
I wouldn't worry about spreading germs via the common cup. Wine has been used for millenia to clean and dress wounds, the alcohol having strong antiseptic properties. I'm sure the people back then didn't understand that, but they knew it worked.
We had a Pastor who was quite the germaphobe. He would discreetly slip into the sacristy during the Offertory and wipe his hands with and alcohol wipe, like the ones your Dr. uses to cleanse the skin before you get an injection. After the distribution he again disappeared into the sacristy and used another wipe on his his hands......but then he didn't like to be touched and he avoided touching people. He favored patting people on the back as opposed to a hand shake.
Pastor Asperger?
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
As far as I can see, add some germs to the body of Christ and you would have body of Christ plus germs.
That might be so if we received bread instead of the Body and Blood of God. God has divinized the human flesh He accepted from the Theotokos Mary...
To put it differently: If you touch me, nothing will happen. The sick woman that touched Christ got well. It's God we are talking about here, and His Body and Blood drive away demons, heals sicknesses, forgives sins, imparts eternal life... It doesn't become the vehicle of getting infected with microbes.
Which is why everything needs to get done reverently, keeping in mind the full implications of what the Eucharist means. Receiving unworthy can be destructive... Although, for many cases God is probably just not effecting any change whatsoever at the bread and wine for the shake of the recipient... because we have become indifferent and reckless with the most holy things.
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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Each time you rotate it a little and wip the place the previous person sipped with a cloth.
Because, er, well, that's we way we do it.
Maybe but no rotating please. When we do the ablutions, we wash everything that has come into contact with the precious blood and that is easier if only one part of the chalice, above the cross or jewel, has been used.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Which is why everything needs to get done reverently, keeping in mind the full implications of what the Eucharist means. Receiving unworthy can be destructive... Although, for many cases God is probably just not effecting any change whatsoever at the bread and wine for the shake of the recipient... because we have become indifferent and reckless with the most holy things.
That's very pious and all that, but the term for any liquid that enters the mouth and splashes back into the cup, be it wine or Holy Blood, is "Backwash." And it certainly is sanctimonious if you are suggesting that you are only drinking sunshine and glory while everyone that can't muster your level of holiness is sucking down spit and booze.
Zach
[ 10. October 2008, 15:49: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
I have been a communicant over 50 years - the Anglican way with a common chalice - and I continue to survive the experience without any ill effects. One or two simple precautions I take; after exchanging the sign of peace, I receive the host in the palm of the other hand (left) after having shaken hands with the right. There is nothing sacrosanct about receiving on the palm of the right hand. But I am sure that simple precaution isn't really necessary. When considered necessary, I receive the wine by intinction dipping the host into the chalice.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by ORGANMEISTER:
I wouldn't worry about spreading germs via the common cup. Wine has been used for millenia to clean and dress wounds, the alcohol having strong antiseptic properties. I'm sure the people back then didn't understand that, but they knew it worked.
We had a Pastor who was quite the germaphobe. He would discreetly slip into the sacristy during the Offertory and wipe his hands with and alcohol wipe, like the ones your Dr. uses to cleanse the skin before you get an injection. After the distribution he again disappeared into the sacristy and used another wipe on his his hands......but then he didn't like to be touched and he avoided touching people. He favored patting people on the back as opposed to a hand shake.
Pastor Asperger?
Hostly biretta on
Kazimieras, using the word "Asperger" as an insult sails perilously close to "all the other negative -isms" referred to in C1. Knock it off, please.
/Hosting off
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Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
It wasn't intended as an insult, O Politically Correct One. It was a comment on the apparent eccentricities of the pastor. There's a difference. How about not over-reacting?
[ 10. October 2008, 16:16: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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beachpsalms
Shipmate
# 4979
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Posted
SPK - I actually don't know anything about a notion that communion ought to be received in both forms.
Depending on where I'm receiving, that would be impossible for me - red wine, for instance, will close up my throat and have me reaching for my epi-pen.
I would venture that Christ's presence is among us when we celebrate communion - whether it be with leavened/unleavened bread; wine; juice; silver; clay; or stryofoam serving dishes. Surely the working of the Spirit is not restricted by our taste in plate?
Someone told me the other day that they thought there was some correlation between the cups and trays family style communion in UCCan churches and the Spanish Flu epidemic in the last century.
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
It has been my experience that the UCCan expectation is that Communion is to be served in both forms. It's not something we really think about, it's just something we do. This is our tradition and norm. AIUI we get such notions from from our Presbyterian heritage and the Kirk. They didn't just appear out of thin air, and our Eucharistic Theology is one part of us which screams Presbyterianism.
You are right about being picky. It's just that in my experience most congregations go for risen, everyday bread. I'd venture a minister trying to use wafers would face unrest in the pews. We have a number of wafer and unleavened bread enthusiasts around here, and since I'm not one of them, I say so.
The vanities we bring to Christ's Table.
Speaking of the Spanish Flu, the United Church didn't exist at the time. That flu epidemic was in 1919, and Union didn't happen until 1925. I believe the Presbyterians were Wee Cuppie swingers, the Methodists were a mixed bag of Wee Cuppies and Common Cups (look for an Altar Rail), and I don't know what the Congregationalists were doing. Given that most churches did communion at most monthly at the time, and more often quarterly, I think your friend's argument would need some serious statistics to back it up.
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beachpsalms
Shipmate
# 4979
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Posted
I don't know about serious stats, but it occured to me that I could look for a dedication date on the plate when we have it out this weekend.
Because.. funnily enough considering the thread - we didn't have communion last week as I was too sick to officiate.
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John Ellis
Shipmate
# 14063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
I have been reading with great interest (shock would probably be more appropriate)... Seriously, am I the only one here to think that it doesn't make any sense at all to think in these terms for the Body and Blood of Christ? I mean, if I was to depend on silver and alcohol, I wouldn't bother with the whole thing. It's unthinkable for me that this discussion even takes place...
During the early days of the advent into England of Lutheran/Reformed ideas and the consequent controversies, I recall reading that one English bishop said to another: "All this, methinks, is for want of faith only". Surely exactly the same's true in respect of the topic in this thread!
In 25 years as an Anglican parish priest, I had the closest of contact with chalices which numbers of people had shared. Unlike, I suspect, most of the communicants, I got an all-round view of what the chalice was occasionally like at the conclusion of the people's communion, especially at the main Eucharist.
That used to evoke from me an occasional brief tirade on the irreverence and lack of consideration involved in receiving the sacrament wearing glutinous and oily lipsticks, accompanied by a lurid, but not over-stated, description of the scum that could float on the surface of the consecrated wine as a consequence. I only had to do this every three or four years - most lipstick-wearers genuinely felt that this was an irreverence, but, beguiled by manufacturers' false assurances, really didn't think that their lipsticks could create this effect. But memories fade in time!
But I never thought I'd catch anything - with or without lipstick oils, this was still, above all else, the cup of salvation and the medicine of immortality, and the irreverence, rather than any fear of infection, was what exercised me. And, as far as I can tell, I never got infected! I'm completely with Andrew on this one - so perhaps it's not surprising that I'm being received into his communion next Sunday week!
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Y mae'r trysor hwn gennym mewn llestri pridd, i ddangos mae eiddo Duw yw'r gallu tra rhagorol, ac nid eiddom ni. (I Corinthiaid 4:7)
Posts: 276 | From: Greater Manchester, England, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
quote:
Leo said:
Maybe but no rotating please. When we do the ablutions, we wash everything that has come into contact with the precious blood and that is easier if only one part of the chalice, above the cross or jewel, has been used.
A priest friend (half-)jokes that "You can always tell a church that's run by the Altar Guild: They use white wine."
Some, in doing ablutions, add a little water and rotate the chalice while drinking so as to (theoretically) clean as you drink.
However you do it, though, washing the entire chalice seems the least of the pressures put on the Altar Guild!
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Best when taken in moderation.
Posts: 237 | From: Deep South USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
It wasn't intended as an insult, O Politically Correct One. It was a comment on the apparent eccentricities of the pastor. There's a difference. How about not over-reacting?
How about either taking this discussion to the Styx or offline? You know better.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Interestingly enough, there is one of those hospital type wall mounted hand sanitizers in our sanctuary. LEMs all avail themselves of it. There is another just outside the vestry door, which I presume is used by the altar party before they process down the aisle at the opening antiphon/hymn.
During the SARs epidemic, the Archdiocese issued a directive stating that the passing of the peace amongst the congregation could be omitted. On Good Friday, Veneration of the Cross took place, but touching or kissing the Cross was not allowed.
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Even more so than I was before
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Lumpy da Moose
Shipmate
# 9038
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Posted
I never worry about it unless I, myself, am sick with something contagious. Which is rare. Then I will receive the bread only and pass by the cup. We, too, have a lot of elderly in our congregation and I wouldn't want to pass anything along.
I've never worried about catching anything while at communion, though I have been known to pass by the cup if a someone is obviously ill in the line ahead of me. Most (but not all ) parents are good about having children pass by the cup if they're snuffling and/or coughing.
I don't usually give a lot of thought to it. Though, as choristers, we usually go up for Eucharist first. But-- our current director now wants us to go last so we can support the congregation singing the communion songs. Really though-- I have more important things to worry about.
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member, Our Ladye of the Bandwidthe and All Angels
Posts: 1035 | From: Gulf Coast, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
Has there EVER been a documented case of an epidemic spread via a chalice?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
Lietuvos was just making a joke. That's pretty obvious. Lighten up a bit!
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
I have been reading with great interest (shock would probably be more appropriate)... Seriously, am I the only one here to think that it doesn't make any sense at all to think in these terms for the Body and Blood of Christ? I mean, if I was to depend on silver and alcohol, I wouldn't bother with the whole thing. It's unthinkable for me that this discussion even takes place...
You've got me in your corner, §Andrew. This discussion comes up every so often and it always amazes me, the discussion of germs, backwash [sic!], and hand sanitizers in the sanctuary, fer cryin' out loud! I was hoping to avoid posting on this thread at all, but I was weak.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
I have been reading with great interest (shock would probably be more appropriate)... Seriously, am I the only one here to think that it doesn't make any sense at all to think in these terms for the Body and Blood of Christ? I mean, if I was to depend on silver and alcohol, I wouldn't bother with the whole thing. It's unthinkable for me that this discussion even takes place...
Well the discussion of it has taken place, is taking place, under whatever nomenclature selected and you have, in fact, lowered yourself to join it, or am I mistaken?
It also seems that you regard the Holy Communion as the result of some kind of divine magic trick, the confection of which obliterates all harmful pathogens, and the discussion of which is beneath you, though you are very much here and dicussing it with some considerable condescenion ... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) ... Or again am I mistaken?
Posts: 862 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Davy Wavy Morrison
Shipmate
# 12241
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Posted
I admit to having it both ways. At our service we have the choice of the common chalice (chalices, actually, so not completely common) or little cups. If I am playing the organ I am the second or third to drink, so I use the common cup. If I am fiftieth or more, I use the small cups (which have the disadvantage of containing diluted grape juice). In this way way, I am joining my fellow-worshippers in proclainming the Lord's death and they may get my germs (their chioce) but I don't get theirs.
Whatever one's views on the common cup, I think individual cups are far superior to intinction if hygiene is a concern. We should eat the bread and DRINK the wine. Communion in both kinds is central to Anglican belief.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Jan 2007
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
...You do realize that I utterly reject the pronouncements of the Council of Trent to which you refer, and believe that the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper must consist of both elements? ...
And yet you drink grape juice, instead of wine. (What Would Jesus Do?)
quote:
Originally posted by Chalice Girl:
...Loving, the microbiologist, said the risk of infection is reduced because the chalice is wiped after each sip, the alcohol in the wine can kill germs and, unlike ceramic cups, the silver and gold used in most chalices don’t harbor microbes....
... But next she wanted to find out whether illnesses were caused by Communion. In 1997, she surveyed 681 people in New Jersey over a 10-week period and found no difference in illness rates among those who attended church and received Communion, those who attended church and didn’t receive Communion, and those who never attended church.
“This even held true for the participants who attended church and received the sacraments every single day during the 10 weeks,” she wrote. ...
...Many who take Communion believe science and God are at work to prevent disease....
There you have it: The scientific facts, along with that all-important (one would think) element of faith and trust in God.
It works for me.
I don't see that there's any rational excuse for tacky little cuppies.
Ross
[ 11. October 2008, 04:35: Message edited by: Rossweisse ]
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I believe He would wish us to partake of both Elements, and would understand when we Welch on the Grape Juice.
Please refer to my dear co-religionist beachpsalms second last post. She's heavily allergic to red wine. If you're going to say that white wine is OK, but grape juice is not, then you're splitting hairs.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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