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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Germaphobes and Communion
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
...I have not approved of any posts talking about spilling the Lord's Blood - but that does not mean I have to agree with you and the absurd assertion that should someone poison a chalice then God is bound to preserve those who drink from it from being poisoned. This is an absurdity of the highest order. Why don't you try it to see if it works!
Before or after handling the crateful of venomous serpents?
I agree that it's hard to respond to this stuff without becoming Hellish. Congratulations on managing the trick, Trip!
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
Unsurprisingly he's never been asked this question before, but he said that he thinks the proper protocol to follow would be to cover the chalice and leave it to the Bishop to deal with it.
Max.
And depending on the bishop, would you or would you not tell him what it contained? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prosfonesis:
Not relinquishing the chalice into the hand of the communicant helps to set the tone.
This would be the tone of stingness, suspicion and dedication to over-precise rules?
Christ is not rationed
Also, amongst Anglicans, it tends to be the higher-up-the-candle places that keep tight hold of the cup.
Which is odd, because they are also the places that make most fuss over spilling the wine.
That made sense when they knelt for communion (as most evangelical Anglicans still do).
But with the current fashion for standing in line (is all that queueing symbolic of rationing?)
the communicant's mouth is typically above the level of the server's shoulders making it
harder to tip the wine in, and more likely to make a spill.
And if the communicant has a moustache its almost impossible to stop dipping it in the wine. Nice for the next one.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Hah - let us praise God that Damien Thompson has not been ordained a priest.
We'd have no bishops.
Max.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
Unsurprisingly he's never been asked this question before, but he said that he thinks the proper protocol to follow would be to cover the chalice and leave it to the Bishop to deal with it.
Max.
And depending on the bishop, would you or would you not tell him what it contained?
That's rather poor taste.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Ken, posters here often seem to be talking of two extremes: either keeping a tight grip on the chalice, making it hard for the communicant to even get any of the Precious Blood into her/his mouth; or alternatively relinquishing control of the chalice completely into the hands of the communicant, which risks occasional sacrilege of one sort or another (I was recently given an example in RL by a shipmate whom I trust as credible, via a PM). IME, in most places, there is a via media, in which the chalice-bearer keeps a loose hold on the vessel, allowing the communicant to guide it to his/her mouth. That works fine by me, and that's what I've experienced the normal procedure to be, in the US, UK and Canada. I have only ever once had someone literally hand the chalice over to me, and that was at a weekday evening Mass at the (Episcopal)St Andrew's Abbey in Denver, Colorado,in the early 1980's during a small, intimate celebration in which the laity came up standing in a semi-circle in the nave to receive the Holy Eucharist. The abbey's great dane had meanwhile wandered in to sit on the steps of the high altar -- very, you know, cosmic man...
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Max. demonstrates encouraging ecumenical breadth:
I've just spoken with a Greek Orthodox Seminarian...he said that he thinks the proper protocol to follow would be to cover the chalice and leave it to the Bishop to deal with it.
That's probably because he could get in touch promptly with his bishop without having to wait in line to get an appointment within a month or five to discuss the Chalice in question. Sweeping away the imperial episcopate is one return to primitive practice I'd heartily endorse. quote:
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimiera speaks my mind:
IME, in most places, there is a via media, in which the chalice-bearer keeps a loose hold on the vessel, allowing the communicant to guide it to his/her mouth. That works fine by me, and that's what I've experienced the normal procedure to be, in the US, UK and Canada.
ken, this is what I meant by not relinquishing the cup. The additional presumption is that the communicant is kneeling. I also disdain the queuing model for communion. As for moustaches—I speak here from abundant, luxuriant experience—if the moustachioed cannot partake of the cup without incidentally drawing up the Most Precious Blood by capillary action into the forest of hair then that one should refrain from taking the cup at all. Sucking out the MPB by covering the bottom of the moustache with the lower lip is edifying to no one. As far as it goes when I am handed over the cup at my little Roman Catholic school house (I know, I know, but they have been hospitably badgering me for years to approach the table without fear) I can administer the MPB without dredging the liquid with my moustache.
Andrew, I admire you for attempting to hold off all we heretical beasts—I really do—but it might be prudent to wonder why there are no other Orthodox beside you in the arena and then to retire to battle another day.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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ChaliceGirl
Shipmate
# 13656
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Posted
Well, this conversation has taken an umm, interesting turn...
Poison in chalices? Don't even want to think about that.
quote:
IME, in most places, there is a via media, in which the chalice-bearer keeps a loose hold on the vessel, allowing the communicant to guide it to his/her mouth.
And that's what this chalice girl does! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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The Episcopal Church Welcomed Me.
"Welcome home." ++Katharine Jefferts Schori to me on 29Mar2009.
My KJS fansite & chicksinpointyhats
Posts: 710 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Apr 2008
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Davy Wavy Morrison
Shipmate
# 12241
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Posted
Reading through a thread like this always saddens me (and sometimes causes a little indignation) as it emphasises the fact that the sacrament of the Lord's Supper is a cause of such great division amongst orthodox Christians. Since I wouldn't be able to convince you all that my view is the right one I'll just have to remain sad. Taking on the topic is in fact like being handed a poisoned chalice.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Jan 2007
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Foaming Draught
The Low in Low Church
# 9134
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Davy Wavy Morrison:
the sacrament of the Lord's Supper is a cause of such great division amongst orthodox Christians.
DWM, if you consider that it's not such a cause for division among orthodox Christians as it is among their sectarian leaders, you won't be so sad. If I posted every time I shared in the sacrament along with RCs and/or Eastern Orthodox, my post count would rival mousethief's.
I don't have any greater insight into the meaning behind Our Lord's words than anyone else, but I feel pretty sure that I'm on safe ground when I say that He didn't intend us to reduce His meaning to "How to confect a valid eucharist".
FD
Posts: 8661 | From: Et in Australia Ego | Registered: Feb 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Foaming Draught:
I don't have any greater insight into the meaning behind Our Lord's words than anyone else, but I feel pretty sure that I'm on safe ground when I say that He didn't intend us to reduce His meaning to "How to confect a valid eucharist".
FD
... and on that, I think we can all agree!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Davy Wavy Morrison
Shipmate
# 12241
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Posted
I think you are right. Even in my Sunday congregation I am sure there are different views on the sacrament (and some probably have no particular "theory" about it at all) but we all share fellowship in it (if our hearts are right with God). But serious differences are still out there and must be faced at times.
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
Sorry if my question about cyanide precipitated another episode of the culture wars; that was not my intention.
I admit it was a slightly silly scenario as Leo said, but I raised it because it seemed to me that if poison added to the Eucharist would still be poisonous, so germs added to the Eucharist would still be infectious. I wondered if someone would say these two were not analogous and why.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
Posts: 2210 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
I am not of the magic school of thought when it comes to the transmission of poison, disease and so on via the Chalice. If someone was seriously intent on poisoning the congregation, the poison would work: just as Auschwitz worked and Nagasaki and every other act of evil, despite God being good and Almighty. God is not constantly thwarting every act of evil, least of all by giving magical properties to holy things.
The same is true with disease: I am sure that a highly contagious disease could be transmitted via holy things. I have celebrated Mass on a ship where there was a growing number of people showing signs of diarrhoea - so we gave communion in one kind only, as a preventitive measure. I was not depriving the people of grace because they were still fully receiving the Lord under one kind. I see absolutely no problem with being sensible if there is a serious and obvious risk.
But I emphasise serious and obvious because one can go too far - either by being fetishistic about germs or about absolutely having to receive communion under both kinds. That's when daft things start to happen and those Church Leaders daft people so despise have to start making rules.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
Ha ha, Max.!
Running through my brain is:
The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon,
The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true...
...or something like that...
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
If there is clear evidence of a cold then, for the sake of the weaker brethren, I would abstain. Otherwise they might see and think "phew! I'm not going near that chalice after him!" or "he shouldn't have received with all those germs".
Do not cause your brother or sister to stumble.
When I have a communicable illness (I was recovering from a dreadful fever last Palm Sunday), I receive under one kind at the rite of Communion, and then assist with the "reverent consumption" of the MPB in the sacristy after Mass, so that I am the last to receive from the chalice.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Yeah - there a few problems with that though:
1. Your immune system will already be overloaded so you will be less likely to resist any other disease that may be present on the chalice.
2. (In the RC Church at least) it's the celebrant's job to do the reverent consumption at mass and it's usually at the front on the altar during the second communion song.
Max.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Not quite - this is where a dispute still exists. The GIRM says the chalice should be purified by the celebrant, deacon or an acolyte, but does not say the celebrant has to consume all that remains in the Chalice.
[ 13. October 2008, 13:40: Message edited by: Triple Tiara ]
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
You're not the real Triple Tiara!
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Hey, I can split hairs with the best of them, even if I wasn't taught by Jesuits.
(Actually, come to think of it, I was taught by an ex-Jesuit at Loyola University, Chicago. Maybe that counts).
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
What concerns Max. and me is not your talent or not for casuistry but your sudden makeover, congruous though it may be with your name.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Oh I see. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
That must rank as the fastest changeover in history - Simon was quick as lightning in effecting the change. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Like it? I got a bit annoyed that my erstwhile avatar, which nobody else ever seemed to use, suddenly became popular, especially with folks such as The Atheist. Took me a few hours to find a suitable image. I like the Renaissance Pope look. Hope you do too ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
What concerns Max. and me is not your talent or not for casuistry but your sudden makeover, congruous though it may be with your name.
Does the Ship permit 'gradual makeovers'? You've both had a few in your time, anyway. Some of them very cheeky ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
I don't like it - and I will refuse to speak to you until it's changed back to that lovely picture of Mr. Davidson.
Max.
[To Revd. Dr. Triple Cardinal Tiara)
[ 13. October 2008, 14:03: Message edited by: Max. ]
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Now, now, Maxi-babes. You know very well that I set very high store by the things that you don't like, and if you don't approve I'm likely to think that must be a sign they are a good thing! ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
PS - I was only trying to look much more like your godfather!
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Pah - I'm gonna go study
Max.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Oh and I think your sig is very, very funny in the light of this thread. Took me a moment or two to work out (creeping age and all that).
Jesuit soupmaking?????? Do they all include split-peas?
[ 13. October 2008, 14:13: Message edited by: Triple Tiara ]
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Oh I see.
That must rank as the fastest changeover in history - Simon was quick as lightning in effecting the change.
Like it? I got a bit annoyed that my erstwhile avatar, which nobody else ever seemed to use, suddenly became popular, especially with folks such as The Atheist. Took me a few hours to find a suitable image. I like the Renaissance Pope look. Hope you do too .
Why do I have the urge to grow a very long beard and dress in hosiery all of a sudden?
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Ah the protestant spirit runs very deep in your veins!
Here, <piff>, have an Indulgence and an Ave Maria!
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Trade you for a Geneva Psalter and an English Bible translation autographed by Tyndale himself? The commentary is guaranteed to knock out any Jesuit, Dominican or Cardinal within a 20-metre radius!
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I feel like I should be posting a Hostly Elizabethan Settlement. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I'm also glad to note that, as with the actual Reformation, we're studiously ignoring the Orthodox.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Major Disaster
Shipmate
# 13229
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Posted
I would love to join in, but I understand so little of it....
Have fun while you can. I fell off my chair (well spun full circle, to be honest) at Max's post at the bottom of page 3, advising leaving it to the bishop to deal with. Lovely!
But I do seem to remember seeing (and Triple tiara must know, that the hosts(3) and wine and water were all partaken of at the high altar at the offertory of the Papal Mass, by a designated member of the Papal Household before the rest were placed appropriately on Paten and in the chalice. This was to prevent poisoning of the Pope via the Sacred Elemants. This practice continued into the 1960's & would seem to put some reality behind the hypothesis that was raised in this thread.
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O Beata Solitudo! Sola Beatitudo!
Posts: 869 | From: Heart of Midlothian | Registered: Dec 2007
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
I have read this thread with difficulty and some degree of sadness at the tone used in parts, and the extreme approaches taken to the Mystery of the Eucharist, in terms of possibility and impossibility of various happenings. I do not like talking about these things because it almost seems as though we're putting our God to the test.
For my part, I believe the Eucharist, like much else that is grace-bestowing within the life of the Church, to be a healing and nourishing food, further incorporating us into the life of Christ and deifying us, overcoming the death and sickness of this world that is the result of the fall. That does not mean that the Mysteries are magical, of course.
I know somebody who, for this reason, bathed in the waters of a healing well recently, despite the fact that the waters had obviously been host to some form of microscopic life that had changed the colour of the water from its usual clear colour to an unpleasant cloudy shade of green, and this in spite of protests from others that he would catch something nasty.
I know one lady who is coeliac and who uses separate counters at home for her and her husband's food. She reacts badly to the tiniest amount of bread that finds its way into her food yet has no problem when receiving the Body of Christ. I only know this because, in my lack of understanding of faith and poor form, I asked the question. Otherwise, I would never have known because she simply quietly receives with faith and gives thanks, with no broadcast or fuss. When I asked her if she reacts to the Eucharist, she responded simply with, 'No, it's the Body of Christ', in a very matter-of-fact way, then continued washing her dishes.
In both cases, these are people who, discreetly and without unnecessary ado, simply approached the mysteries in faith, with their eyes turned towards the Lord with hope, awaiting their food in due season. They were not putting God to the test, thinking, 'Well, let's see if God can overcome this one', then waiting to see what would happen, as though the mysteries are to be put to such an experiement and as though grace could come from such a faithless approach.
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
I would like to ask those who say that the Eucharist cannot carry infection, what they would do if they saw the person in front of them slip some cyanide into the chalice, unnoticed by the priest.
Do you reckon that would be safe to drink ?
If I were aware that cyanide had been put into the chalice, I would tell the priest. Our clergy are forbidden from serving with bread or wine that have become unfit, whether due to mould, or souring of the wine to become vinegar, or poison or other pollutant. If this is not discovered until after the consecration, the clergy are directed to reverently pour the Holy Things into a flowing river. To do otherwise - to use something unfit - would be considered a disrespect both to the Body of Christ and to the gathered Body of Christ. Our faith in the life-giving Mysteries is that - it is faith God's mercy and grace, which are received by those who approach with a contrite heart, having prepared themselves and who approach with faith. It is not a test of God's power, and I cannot say what would happen if somebody were to take this approach.
Such things as shared germs are simply an expected part of sharing a common spoon or cup and don't really feature in our consciousness at the time of Communion. It seems to me that the malicious addition of deadly poison to the chalice is quite a different matter. Beyond what I have said above, I would not want to make any sort of blanket statement about what will always happen or what cannot possibly happen in the reception of the Eucharist. From my perspective, to say that it is impossible for somebody to, unknowingly, approach a poisoned chalice in good faith to remain unharmed would be no different from the approach that says that specific healing and resurrection miracles of the Saints did not happen, not because of historical evidence that those events did not take place (which would be understandable), but because of the belief that it is impossible for a person to reach the point of deification here on earth that he begins to demonstrate in his being some of the energies of God to a degree that most of us do not. (That view was expressed very recently by a Christian friend of mine, who also suggested that I had left my brain behind. It seems to me to be a conclusion based on scientific observations of how things customarily work in the fallen world rather than Christian theology). By the same token, to say that poison in a chalice could not possibly harm anybody who received it because it was mixed with the Body and Blood of Christ, would be to make the reception of Communion something in which we are entirely passive drones, and in which the state of our hearts and souls, and the mindset in which we approach, has no bearing on its operation within our bodies and souls.
I cannot subscribe to either of those views. For me, I try to approach in faith and hope to receive grace and be further deified. Beyond that, I cannot and would not wish to speculate about and pinpoint what happens, primarily out of reverence for the Mysteries but also for the avoidance of confusion to others, thereby causing them to stumble.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Colds are infectious during the initial phase - about two days while you are starting the symptoms. By the time you are sneezing, you are not at all, or less infectious.
I beg to differ. When I did my chaplaincy residency, we had to take training in infection control. This, being a huge hospital, had its own infection control staff people and I think they would know.
You are contagious as long as you are dripping, coughing, sneezing, etc. Yes, you are a bit infectious before you get the symptoms, but your most infectious time is the drippy phase. The virus is carried in body fluids.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
...But I emphasise serious and obvious because one can go too far - either by being fetishistic about germs or about absolutely having to receive communion under both kinds. That's when daft things start to happen and those Church Leaders daft people so despise have to start making rules.
Thank you, Trip, for another excellent post.
(And I like your makeover, and hope that you make it to Pope -- thus becoming ex-Papabile -- the next time out.)
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Why thank you ma'am.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
But the pope no longer wears a Triple tiara - it is now considered to be Old Hat - but seriously in the fullness of time I should be delighted if TT were to become the next pope - but he has to be called Peter.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
*stuffs Jesuit stole into mouth*
Must...resist.....
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
But the pope no longer wears a Triple tiara - it is now considered to be Old Hat - but seriously in the fullness of time I should be delighted if TT were to become the next pope - but he has to be called Peter.
...and he absolutely must ride on a sedan chair, carried by dozens of the faithful. And what ever happened to the flabella? You must bring those back.
Most importantly, no red Prada. Please. Sanctuary slippers alone. Why should the pope let his feet touch the ground? That's just madness. Simply madness!
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Martin approves.
Don't come knocking at my door begging alms for maintenance at St. Peter's Basilica, though!
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
No, not "Peter" - TT must take the pallium under the name of Hadrian. And then immediately reinstate all sadly abandoned ceremonies and marks of office, for all the hierarchies of the church, including the Triple Crown.
And that will only be the start...
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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John Ellis
Shipmate
# 14063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Don't come knocking at my door begging alms for maintenance at St. Peter's Basilica, though!
He won't be begging - he'll be selling indulgences - or causing them to be sold - for a new Roman basilica in Constantinople!! Or, better still, for the erection of a Trappist house on Mount Athos ... That should make an impact!
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Y mae'r trysor hwn gennym mewn llestri pridd, i ddangos mae eiddo Duw yw'r gallu tra rhagorol, ac nid eiddom ni. (I Corinthiaid 4:7)
Posts: 276 | From: Greater Manchester, England, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
No, not "Peter" - TT must take the pallium under the name of Hadrian. And then immediately reinstate all sadly abandoned ceremonies and marks of office, for all the hierarchies of the church, including the Triple Crown.
And that will only be the start...
Don't worry:We're
Nearly Half way there.
So we've already got the thrones, mitres, vestments and altar. [/tangent]
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
PAPAL BULL
Cum Grano Salis
Triple Tiara, PP I
Supreme Pontiff, for an everlasting memorial
TO OUR VENERABLE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ON THE SHIP
WE note with delight the approbation WE have received from your loyal posts following the news of OUR sudden and unexpected election.
WE are delighted with the suggestions WE have already received as to OUR attire and ceremonies. WE shall take care to give each of these due and careful consideration. Though WE were initially astonished at the suggestions of OUR brother ken, WE took particular delight in his contributions.
In view of these excellent signs of fidelity, WE hereby make our first Pontifical appointments.
Max. WE elevate you to the rank of Cardinal, and Legate to the Jesuits. WE will permit you to wear sandals at the Papal Court. But WE command you to keep well away from OUR Papal Liturgies, and most particularly from OUR Papal Choir!
In a fit of ecumenical enthusiasm WE also appoint the following:
Rossweisse In view of your excellent taste in music, WE break with all previous misogynistic tradition and appoint you Chief Director of Music to the Papal Throne. WE undertake to consider at least daily, for the rest of OUR pontificate, the vexed question of Anglican Orders.
ken WE name you Secretary of State and raise you to the rank of Prince, so that you may better consider the benefits of monarchy.
John Ellis In view of your excellent suggestions WE name you Latin (or Greek if you prefer) Patriarch of Constantinople. WE will ordain you straight to the episcopate so that WE need not trouble ourselves with those troublesome Orders you have received elsewhere. WE endorse your plan for a new Basilica in Constantinople and trust you will exert every effort to raise the necessary funds.
MartinL WE name you Master of Papal Ceremonies. The first Ceremony WE intend to conduct will be a Solemn Proclamation of Indulgences to celebrate OUR election. WE trust you will come up with some good ideas for the occasion.
WE think some of the ceremonial to be restored should include this one.
Further appointments can be made, dependent upon suitable bribes. In the meantime WE have enjoyed OURSELF enormously!
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
...Rossweisse In view of your excellent taste in music, WE break with all previous misogynistic tradition and appoint you Chief Director of Music to the Papal Throne. WE undertake to consider at least daily, for the rest of OUR pontificate, the vexed question of Anglican Orders. ...
Mille, mille grazie, o mio signore. Tu es Petrus, baby!
(The music will be good... no fear!)
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
St Silas the Carter WE name you Papal Chamberlain and Rummager through the Papal Sacristy drawers. WE forbid you, however, from attempting to try on the outfits first!
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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