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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Incense and thuribles
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
Good charcoal should be mostly carbon; so the charcoal residue is pretty much soot. If there's sticky gunk, it will be from the resin. There are various commercial solvents, most of which have been mentioned.
I'd think that (real) turpentine would probably be the most effective, since it's distilled from pine wood. The Wikipedia article notes that "mineral turpentine" is a petroleum product, used as a substitute. The category Solvents lists a number of other possibilities. Many are a bit hazardous, though.
A mixture sold as "lacquer thinner" will dissolve a lot of things that nothing else does, but be careful with it. I used some once to de-gunk a car license plate, and it stripped the paint ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) (North American license plates, stamped and painted metal.)
I might try something like Citrisolve, with care. It will remove things like wax crayon and pine tar. The active ingredient is mostly d-Limonene. It may be easier to clean up than some other solvents, too.
Safety note - after any solvent based cleaning, I'd wash the thurible carefully, with several rinses, then heat it outdoors to make sure that I wasn't going to add unexpected chemicals to the perfumed smoke. Nor have residual solvents crawl out of the thurible and drop on the carpet, either in liquid form or on fire!
ETA: resist the urge to mix multiple solvents. If one doesn't work well, wash it off then try another.
[ 28. June 2007, 12:07: Message edited by: Henry Troup ]
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
On the ALTAR?!
(That thumping sound you hear is all the tat-queens fainting en masse at the very thought.)
Sorry, not literally ON the altar!
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Well um... where then? Next to the altar? Credence table? A hook cunningly worked into the reredos?
Enquiring minds want to know!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
It dangles from some sort of stand (freestanding)
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
It dangles from some sort of stand (freestanding)
A proper name for this is the Dumb or Silent Acolyte.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
I've just taken a propane torch and heated the inside of the thurible. The gunk melts and is scraped out easily.
A blow torch? Oh, dear. I fear this advice taken enthusiastically bodes ill for the durability of the thurible. Surely a gentle touch is wanted—that akin to finishing crème brûlée rather than searing paint from woodwork.
Well, a plumber's torch.
Have you seen meringue peaks browned in a restaurant kitchen? This is what they use.
You are right that it only requires a light touch. But if meringue can take it, I think the metal thurible will be fine.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
It dangles from some sort of stand (freestanding)
A proper name for this is the Dumb or Silent Acolyte.
When you were "The Dumb Acolyte" I didn't get the reference until you explained what a dumb acolyte was. Until then, I had always simply called it a thurible stand (because that's what the catalogues call them). Never before then and never since then have I heard anybody use dumb acolyte in this way, and a quick google doesn't generate any results for that expression either, other than references to your Ship identity and an occasion of use of the words dumb and acolyte together but seemingly with another meaning.
Is it fairly localised? My suspicion is that it's one of those expressions, such as laic, that only really get used on the other side of the pond.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
I've just taken a propane torch and heated the inside of the thurible. The gunk melts and is scraped out easily.
A blow torch? Oh, dear. I fear this advice taken enthusiastically bodes ill for the durability of the thurible. Surely a gentle touch is wanted—that akin to finishing crème brûlée rather than searing paint from woodwork.
Well, a plumber's torch.
Have you seen meringue peaks browned in a restaurant kitchen? This is what they use.
You are right that it only requires a light touch. But if meringue can take it, I think the metal thurible will be fine.
One can also use them to peel tomatoes quite effectively. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Meringue is disgusting. That and crème brûlée. How can anybody eat gloopy desserts like that? The thought alone makes me feel unwell. Give me a nice, solid cake any day.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
(a) I agree with you about 'the Dumb Acolyte': tis not a name I've heard... 'thurible stand' does fine.
(b) I disagree with you about creme brulee. If they don't have it in Heaven, I aint'nt going (arrogantly supposing for a moment that I might be anyway).
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Flinging wide the gates...
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Archimandrite
Shipmate
# 3997
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Bertelin:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
It dangles from some sort of stand (freestanding)
A proper name for this is the Dumb or Silent Acolyte.
When you were "The Dumb Acolyte" I didn't get the reference until you explained what a dumb acolyte was. Until then, I had always simply called it a thurible stand (because that's what the catalogues call them). Never before then and never since then have I heard anybody use dumb acolyte in this way, and a quick google doesn't generate any results for that expression either, other than references to your Ship identity and an occasion of use of the words dumb and acolyte together but seemingly with another meaning.
Is it fairly localised? My suspicion is that it's one of those expressions, such as laic, that only really get used on the other side of the pond.
I imagine it is a ludic development of the dumb-waiter, or Lazy Susan*. Come to think of it, there's scarcely a serving-team in the land that doesn't have a Lazy Susan...
*Dumb-waiter means two things, Lazy Susan is the same as one of them.
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"Loyal Anglican" (Warning: General Synod may differ).
Posts: 1580 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jan 2003
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I recall dimly a priest referring to the Silent Acolyte as, I think, a Jeraboam, or some other OT character who was struck "dumb". Anyone else heard something to this effect?
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Archimandrite
Shipmate
# 3997
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Posted
Zechariah, father of John the Baptist, was struck dumb. Jeroboam had his hand withered whilst standing by the altar burning incense. Either seems appropriate!
- by the way, the large wine bottle containing 10-12 normal-sized ones is called a Jeroboam because he was a "mighty man of valour" who "made Israel to sin".
[ 29. June 2007, 20:19: Message edited by: Archimandrite ]
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"Loyal Anglican" (Warning: General Synod may differ).
Posts: 1580 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jan 2003
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
Thanks, perhaps that's what he'd said. It's been many years... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
I'm quite amazed that this thread is still active after 5 years!!
Anyway, no one's mentioned this week's thurible sighting on The Colbert Report. After talking about reports that former PM Tony Blair would be converting to Catholicism upon his departure from the office, Stephen Colbert (himself RC) produced a thurible. Unfortunately, he encountered difficulties with the chain and ended up chucking it over his shoulder rather than swinging it, which I imagine was his intent.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Low Treason
Shipmate
# 11924
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
It dangles from some sort of stand (freestanding)
A proper name for this is the Dumb or Silent Acolyte.
I rather like the concept of a dumb or silent acolyte - many of them are far too lippy IME. Chance would be a fine thing though! ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.
Posts: 1914 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Frankly, I've never heard anyone outside of my parish refer to these things as dumb acolytes. But, then I've never seen one outside of my parish, either. (Do I need to get out more?) Mostly the need seems to be filled with a hook on the wall. A moveable thurible stand is quite useful when the occasion demands incense, yet there are not enough acolytes: Place the stand in the sanctuary and let the pot fume away when it is not being used by the celebrant or thurifer.
Regarding laic: I was recently appalled to read of clergymembers [sick!] and laypersons in a local newspaper. Although in on article an gay marriage, clergymember seemed only risqué while layperson seemed just needless. I thought there had to be something corresponding to cleric for laity. Good bless English. Laic is attested from 1562 and laical from 1290. Though the arriviste laicize (1881) is in the popular lexicon, I'm the only one I know who uses laic.
So, call me queer.
Oh, and lippy acolytes are likely also to be swans. They are pests on the order of raccoons in your rubbish bins or rats in your cellar. No hunting license is needed; they should be shot on sight.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
No, darling, you're not alone - Clerics... Laics...There, I've said it.
But silent acolytes are so much more useful... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Canute the Holy
Shipmate
# 9394
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Posted
Having just cleaned a thurible, I have a question for next time it's going to be used...
Where do you put the coals? In the bottom, under the small insert, and then place the incense there, or in the insert and place the incense directly on the coals?
I have usually placed the incense on the coal, but is that wrong?
Posts: 183 | From: Sweden | Registered: Apr 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Canute the Holy:
Having just cleaned a thurible, I have a question for next time it's going to be used...
Where do you put the coals? In the bottom, under the small insert, and then place the incense there, or in the insert and place the incense directly on the coals?
I have usually placed the incense on the coal, but is that wrong?
You were right. Typically at our church, the inside bowl gets lined with aluminum foil first. The coals are ignited on a gas burner. The foil-lined inner bowl is placed into the thurible, and when the coals are coated with gray ash, they are placed (using tongs) into the bowl. When it's time to cense the altar, the celebrant spoons incense directly on the hot coals and blesses the incense.
The foil lining makes cleanup much easier, although the lid still needs to be wiped after every use.
But by all means put the coals in the inserted bowl, not under that, where they would make the thurible very dangerously hot and probably damage it and anything the thurible touches.
[ 10. July 2007, 12:38: Message edited by: Scott Knitter ]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Mishkle
Shipmate
# 11381
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Posted
foil... that's a really good idea... *notes down*
Posts: 142 | From: United States | Registered: May 2006
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Petrified
Ship’s ballast
# 10667
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mishkle:
foil... that's a really good idea... *notes down*
Foil pudding (as in Steak & Kidney) or pie dishes work fine
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At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.
SoF a "prick against Bigotterie"
Posts: 540 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Canute the Holy:
Having just cleaned a thurible, I have a question for next time it's going to be used...
Where do you put the coals? In the bottom, under the small insert, and then place the incense there, or in the insert and place the incense directly on the coals?
I have usually placed the incense on the coal, but is that wrong?
Charcoal in the insert. Incense on the coals.
[ 10. July 2007, 14:52: Message edited by: leo ]
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
One thing that might be worth noting is that individual pie dishes in the USA are usually made of treated cardboard and are not suitable as thurible insert protection. In the UK they are usually made of heavy Aluminium (Aluminum) foil.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Well, EJCardiff found some acetone and on Sunday it was actually fine when I was at home so while my lunch was cooking I had a go at the thurible. The acetone worked a treat, especially on the top which was just incense residue. The inset with a lovely mix of charcoal and incense more than 5mm thick in places was a bit more challenging and unfortunately I ran out of acetone (50ml bottle) before it was clean. But it looks a thousand times better already. I applied it with cotton wool pads which worked well on the whole, but I perhaps need a brush for the inset given the thickness of the gunk. So hopefully we can anticipate the transfiguration by a day with incense in a couple of weeks and have it at my house-blessing/warming too the following week.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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magnum mysterium
Shipmate
# 3418
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Posted
Can anyone recommend a place to buy a decent Anglican thurible for not too exorbitant a price?
Posts: 3095 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
In our bookshop:
A thurible $7,038.10
matching boat $5,973.20
(Solomon dollars)
What I did when rector of an impoverished village, was take the thurible from the main church in town to a metal-work shop. They took an industrial pipe, cut it and welded to make a thurible. We used dog-leads from the hardware store to make the four chains.
It was a cold, industrial grey. Having no nut trees in the vicinity to make incense, I pounded mosquito coils and use that for incense. The cost of the thurible was about 4,000 vatu. Much better than the prices for the imported thuribles above.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
So hopefully we can anticipate the transfiguration by a day with incense in a couple of weeks and have it at my house-blessing/warming too the following week.
You don't need the interior to be completely spotless. A little patina is a good thing in my view.
You may actually want to burn some incense in the thurible a time or two after cleaning it before the big day. I've found that when I clean a thurible, it doesn't seem to put out as much odor the first time or two after use. I have no explanation or insight - it may just be superstition on my part.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
magnum mysterium, it depends on how much you can afford/are prepared to pay! They seem to range from around Ł180-Ł800, depending on size, material and elaborateness.......
Vanpoulles have some nice little plain thuribles from around Ł180 - this is the website I found:
http://www.van.aspenhost.co.uk
They crop up now and then on good old eBay - worth a look, even though proper church thuribles tend to get mixed up in the listings with Oriental thingies.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Oh dear - the Vanpoulles site I've linked to seems to be for their January 2007 sale! Gives an idea of what's on offer generally, though.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
I just bought a (very) used thurible at a supply house that deals in used churchy things: everything from candlesticks to pulpits and lots of used vestments.
There must be others around the world who do this sort of thing. I happen to be in driving distance of this place and it's the only one I'm familiar with in the US, though there may be others. I have no connection with this company; I only offer it as a suggestion of the sort of company that most of us wouldn't know exists.
I used lots of elbow grease and tips I picked up from this thread -- boiling seemed to work to get the gunk out!
[ 06. September 2007, 22:25: Message edited by: LostinChelsea ]
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Best when taken in moderation.
Posts: 237 | From: Deep South USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
I suppose I shouldn't get TOO excited before the PCC meeting, but can I just say that a certain object is about to come out of the cupboard on a more regular basis... ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) (if I say anymore I'll have to kill you... ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) )
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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YMS
Apprentice
# 12951
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Posted
i am not sure if we are on the original question, but looking at what incense we use at sundon:
Never prinknash - it gets down your throat and can also smell acrid. The Basilica is ok as prinknash goes but we don't tend to use it here.
We have a kind of a rota, incorporating the Nashdom blends (now made at Burford) and Orthodox incense both from walsingham (ROse) and from the S Edward Brotherhood:
Festivals:
Nashdom Valle Crucis or Malmsbury
+ Alexandria Rose + Chertsey Carnation.
Ordinary time:
Nashdom Rievaux + orange blossom or rose (W)
(sometimes this can change and is more often rose than orange these days)
Lent + Advent:
Nashdom Rievaux or Evesham or Glastonbury
+ Purbeck Rose or Rose (W).
although this isnt set in stone, but it does mean that the fragrances change from time to time. Some poeple like prinknash...just i dont!
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Support and maintain clergy morale - support and maintain the Parson's Freehold!!
Posts: 22 | From: greater london | Registered: Aug 2007
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Well, there yer go - I happen to much prefer Prinknash (used at the church I now attend) to the Orthodox variety (St. Edward, IIRC) burnt in the Cathedral on the rare occasions on which incense is used there. Each to his own!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
I like Prinknash too!
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
Is that what they call "forward planning"? Will you have a dry run while you're still alive, to make sure that its just as you want it?
If anyone is willing to send me samples, I'm willing to experiment with incense...
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
You'll just have to keep visiting to replenish... its been some years since I've been to Paris, not so much fun with anklebiters, I think...
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
I served at a church yesterday that uses large charcoal brickets, by which I mean some about 2 to 2 1/2 times the size of those that I've always known. They're brilliant. They're slow burning and last for ages (we used three over the course of about four hours), and have made me realise that it is perfectly possible to light these things easily without them being coated in gunpowder. It takes longer but only slightly.
I didn't notice the brand because I was busy doing things and I didn't think to ask because my mind was otherwise occupied. I can easily find out where they get them from but I thought I'd mention it here in case anybody may know about them. They come in stacks in a foil-type wrapper, just the smaller ones. Does anybody use them regularly?
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Apparently, they're briquettes and not brickets.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
What you describe sounds like what we use (I've only been let loose at prepping the thurible once)
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Thank you, LTYYH. Where do you get them?
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
I'll ask the "boss" - he buys them...
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Ta muchly!
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
They sound superb, St. B. Here we use coconut shells. They're good, but require a "boat boy" or "boat girl" to keep the fire going throughout the service. With those charcoals, an important lay position in the service is made redundant by technology.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I'm going to have to ask, Mama T! How do they keep the coconut shells going.........?
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
St B, this is what "the boss" said:
"spck in cambridge stock them (downstairs), or the guild shop walsingham, mayhew, dupont, vanpoulles, hays & finch, etc..."
Apologies for the fact he couldn't find the capslock... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
St B, this is what "the boss" said:
"spck in cambridge stock them (downstairs), or the guild shop walsingham, mayhew, dupont, vanpoulles, hays & finch, etc..."
Apologies for the fact he couldn't find the capslock...
Tis ok.
Thank you so much for that, and please pass on my thanks. I'm rather embarrassed actually. I had for some years, until recently, been subscribed to the catalogues of the last four, (I'm guessing he means Dumont), and had never noticed the larger variety of charcoal.
I'm glad to have received a reply from you because I contacted a server at the church who gave me the brand name and told me that they import them from Holland via Germany, (don't ask). Fortunately, he also gave me the brand name (Three Kings) and some googling reveals that they're readily available online. I'll do some price checks against the sources you mention. These ones are 4cm across rather than 3.3cm, and they're thicker as well, (so I may have unwittingly exaggerated a little in my earlier post).
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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