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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Incense and thuribles
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
They sound superb, St. B. Here we use coconut shells. They're good, but require a "boat boy" or "boat girl" to keep the fire going throughout the service. With those charcoals, an important lay position in the service is made redundant by technology.
I don't think anybody in St Kitts thought of using coconut shells. It isn't as though they weren't plentiful. We used to fell a tree every couple of years, dig a pit in the churchyard, lob the tree in it and set it alight, before covering it over again. We'd let it smoulder for a week or so and then dig it up to reveal the next two years' supply of charcoal.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
That's a good idea too! Bishop's Finger, just light them like another wood well before the service, let them burn down, and if you are being honoured, a catechist will spoon the resin while you are saying, "Be blest by him in who's name you shall be burnt." On Sunday when St. Michael was being celebrated, I particularly felt moved by the traditional blessing at the offertory.
By the way: I noticed something strange yesterday at a funeral. The person was incensed and then sprinkled being smoked. I've always sprinkled and then incensed the departed? Which way, guys?
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
HI - Holy water then Incense
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
I know that. You know that. The world knows that. Every liturgical book ever written knows that. But our clergy receive no training in these things AT ALL. So we get what we deserve....
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Okay. That's the mnemonic and gets us half way to remembering the order.
But—I gotta ask—what's the ritual reason why?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
[QB] I know that. You know that. The world knows that. Every liturgical book ever written knows that. [QB]
Not quite. IIRC English Uses had the body censed at the Gradual and then again at the Offertory. Finally, at the Absolutions ovber the Bier, there were three censings of the body: one after each of the three prayers of "Absolution". After the final censing, the body would be sprinkled.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
Chapter and verse? Or weblink.
Because the sprinkling is a removal, a cleansing, the censing is an adding, of holiness, prayers. If these are added, the rain afterward can be perceived to be taken away. That's the only way I ever seen. But this is symbolism and that can be different in in differnt rites.
Thanks for your info, but if there is a link to a Sarum funeral or somesuch, let's have it!
All the best.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
You could at least have pretended to have a real reason for bumping it, dear ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
tetchy host
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
She saved me hunting for it!
Couple of questions from a learning thurifer. I've tended to hold the thurible by the ring on the top when swinging it but noticed that the thurifer at E&B on Sunday was holding the chain just below that. What's best?
How does one turn corners well?
I'll also note Amos' answer to me on another thread about where to buy tongs for the charcoal. She suggested Lakeland which isn't somewhere we've tried yet.
Carys (who's looking forward to Midnight Mass and Epiphany having just had incense for Christ the King)
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I vote for holding the chains right below the "ring" with a firm grip. One has, then, far better control over movement. It's then simple enough, when it comes time to lift the lid, to loosen the grip.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
I vote for holding the chains right below the "ring" with a firm grip. One has, then, far better control over movement. It's then simple enough, when it comes time to lift the lid, to loosen the grip.
That was the impression I got. I'll have to practice. I need to. There was a bit of fumbling on Sunday (partly because we need a boat boy) and doing that might also prevent the mess Father got into at one point.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
I'm looking forward to midnight mass and incense too! Even more so for Epiphany, our new nave altar is being consecrated, and I believe it will need censing as part of the consecration ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
\slight tangent
I've got a smiley with thurible somewhere, do you reckon there'd be any mileage in getting it added to the list of smileys?
\slight tangent off
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
I'm looking forward to midnight mass and incense too! Even more so for Epiphany, our new nave altar is being consecrated, and I believe it will need censing as part of the consecration
[grins] Incense is good (whatever one might think of nave altars otherwise ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) )
quote:
Originally posted by Love the You you hide:
\slight tangent
I've got a smiley with thurible somewhere, do you reckon there'd be any mileage in getting it added to the list of smileys?
\slight tangent off
Yes please!
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
I vote for holding the chains right below the "ring" with a firm grip. One has, then, far better control over movement. It's then simple enough, when it comes time to lift the lid, to loosen the grip.
Not being a Thurifer myself but ...
I think that the holding it by the chain thing looks tacky, personally ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) . You can't get a proper swing on it and it all looks rather poor. The ring is there for a purpose (not just for hanging it on its stand ) and it should be used as such!
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On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
In truth Whitgift, I've found I get a much better swing when I have full control over the thurible by holding the chains. It does look a bit more precious held at the ring, but is far less practical which, as a thurifer, I can assure you is the case.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Cusanus
Ship's Schoolmaster
# 692
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Posted
Add me to the 'hold the chains' side of the debate. Makes it easier, in my experience, to keep the swing in a single plane.
(Good to see that we're debating something important, while they're wittering on about Nestorianism in Purgatory.)
I've seen two ways of turning 90 degrees. One is to reduce the arc of the swing over a couple of steps, turn and then pick up the swing again. The other is the slightly more dangerous method of changing the direction of the swing by turning your swinging arm before you turn the rest of your body.
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"You are qualified," sa fotherington-tomas, "becos you can frankly never pass an exam and have 0 branes. Obviously you will be a skoolmaster - there is no other choice."
Posts: 3120 | From: The Peninsula | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
There seems to a confusion over rings; here's the straight dope: There is the ring on the discus, there is the ring of the lid chain, there is the discus, and there is the other ring. They are different items.
The ring is the loop of metal at the tippy-top of a pendant thurible, the plane of which is perpendicular to the ground. This ring is useful for hanging up the thurible on a hook. Some also use it to hold and operate the thurible by placing a finger (the middle) through the ring with the palm facing up. If you have a light thurible and don't swing it much, this is a reasonable, if delicate, option. But if you have a thurible with any heft—or an immense one that looks like a small castle, with clerestory windows and spires and pinnacles and such—then you want to hold it by grasping the chains in your fist directly beneath the discus.
The discus is the flatish, broadly conical disk to which the ring is attached on top; and to which the (four) chains are attached, equally spaced around its circumference.
The ring of the lid chain is attached to the top end of the lid chain, while the other end of this chain is attached to the lid. This chain threads through a hole in the discus, permitting the thurible lid to be raised above the vessel of the thurible.
The other ring encloses the thurible's four chains. Three of these chains suspend the vessel of the thurible from the discus, attaching at the rim of the mouth of the vessel of the thurible. These chains thread through holes spaced equally around the circumference of the lid of the thurible. When this other ring is cinched down firmly against the lid of the thurible, it keeps the lid in place.
images.google hauls up pretty poor pics, but here are two: thurible one and thurible two. Thurible two shows clearly an oblong ring attached to the discus. The picture of thurible one also does this, but, in addition, it shows the other ring enclosing the chains a couple of inches above the thurible lid.
If your thurible has only one chain, don't try any of the tricks described in this thread; and, immediately start shopping for a proper thurible with four chains.
How does one turn corners? Make the turn when the thurible is in its back swing, then use the hand holding the thurible to push the discus in the direction your want the thurible to go so that the thurible goes in this direction on its forward swing; about 45° through a 90° turn works for me.
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Sigh. Technical writing is harder than it looks. Please substitute these two paragraphs for those in my post above. quote:
The discus is the flatish, broadly conical disk to which the ring is attached on top; and to which three chains are attached, equally spaced around its circumference, while the fourth chain threads through a hole in the discus.
...
images.google hauls up pretty poor pics, but here are two: thurible one and thurible two. Thurible two shows clearly an oblong ring attached to the discus. The picture of thurible one also does this (showing a round ring), but, in addition, it shows the other ring enclosing the chains a couple of inches above the thurible lid.
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
TSA has once again clarified an important point! If the thurible is the single chain lightweight type use the discus (I couldn't for the life of me remember the term). Grasping the chains is for the longer chained or heavier types I'm accustomed to using.
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Thank you for that TSA, that's very helpful.
When it comes to the ring round the chains just above the lid, what's the best position for this? Should one change it in the course of the service?
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
When a well-crafted thurible is held by the ring on top of the discus, the chains ring (what I called the other ring, above) can be moved to just about any height between the discus and the top of the lid. The spread of the chains and the irregularity of the links keep this ring situated wherever you move it.
So, basically there are only two modes: open and closed.
When the thurible lid is closed, the chains ring should be cinched down on top of the lid. All four of the chains are bunched around the eyelet on the top of the lid and tend to hold this ring in place. As the thurible is swung (especially at the incensing of the gifts and the altar), this ring will work its way up. This is not a problem; just cinch it back down when necessary.
When the thurible lid is open, it is only necessary to have slid the chains ring up the chains to height that allows you to raise the lid so it's convenient for you and the celebrant when he or she shovels on the incense. I prefer raising the lid pretty high, but then I have the arms of an orangutan, so that's easy for me to do.
[ 27. November 2007, 21:09: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Thanks. This is helpful, because although I served at a church with good thurifers I was never senior enough to become one, but now I've moved to a church where I am the thurifer so I've never actually been trained by someone with more experience but am having to go on what I've observed and I've not always been paying enough attention.
Another thing I struggle with is going from swinging it as I walk to holding it so as to cense the congregation. I didn't do this at all smoothly on Sunday.
I'm also confused about which hand to hold it in when and what to do with the boat at times (that's partly a logistical problem of lacking a boat child and having a cylindrical altar rail).
Mmmm, maybe I need to ask my old church for a lesson next time I'm back in Cambridge.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
Another thing I struggle with is going from swinging it as I walk to holding it so as to cense the congregation. I didn't do this at all smoothly on Sunday.
I'm also confused about which hand to hold it in when and what to do with the boat at times (that's partly a logistical problem of lacking a boat child and having a cylindrical altar rail).
I tend to find it much easier to swing at it the celebrant and then to keep it in that position as I walk to/turn round to face the congregation.
Left hand when you're taking it to be charged/when it's not got incense in; right hand when it has. (For these purposes, even though the celebrant put incense in at the sacristy, there isn't any incense in it just before the gospel so assume it's empty.)
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Carys, no thanks are necessary. Your unworthy servant lives to do the appointed duty. Anything that advances the use of incense in God's holy churches I am willing to do. As the much missed Fiddleback used to say the worship of Almighty God is the offering of incense. Check out your Old Testament. All the music and words, pretty dresses and fancy buildings are merely window dressing.
To your questions. The first one about transitioning from walking to incensing the people is, perhaps, a particular instance of a more general mistake. Walking is one thing, turning is another thing, incensing a person or object is yet something else, and handling the thurible is distinct from all of them. Make sure you divide each of these activities so that you are not trying to turn and fumble the thurible, nor turning before you have finished walking. Do one action and finish it before you start doing another distinct action.
I am assuming that you are right handed, that you have placed the boat somewhere in the sanctuary (at the sedile, on an acolyte's bench or stool, on the credence (certainly not to be preferred), or there is no shame in placing it on the floor where it won't be kicked over, if need be), and that you are walking with the thurible in your right hand, with your left hand placed on your breast.
When you approach the congregation swinging the thurible at full-chain (as I assume you are, though you might not be), stop at the place you intend. Look down at your hands to see what you are doing. Pass the discus from your right hand to your left hand. Grasp the chains with your right hand at a comfortable place near the lid. You do all this deliberately. There is no rush. If you are worried that the congregation is watching, surprise!, you are right, they are. They need to be to know when to return your bow to them.
So look 'em in the eye for a second or two so that they know that you think the ritual you are about the exchange with them is important. It is important, so give it the gravitas is merits. Bow graciously to them as icons of Christ, as sacred co-celebrants of the Holy Mysteries you are corporately enacting, or with any other metaphor that helps turn your mind and theirs Godward. Incense them as one does any group of three persons or more. Bow to them with the same prayerfulness as you did before you incensed them. Pass the discus back to your right hand. Then turn. Then walk to your appointed place in the sanctuary.
A few other points.
(i) There is no reason in God's creation that you can't make the trip from the sanctuary to where you stand to incense the congregation (or deacon or acolytes or choir clergy or choir or whomever) holding the discus in your left hand and the chains in your right as you might like to have them when you actually swing the thurible. This is what Thurible also suggests.
(ii) I'm not sure I understand your question about cylindrical altar rails and absent boat bearers. Where is the flipping MC? Absent a third person, the thurifer hands the boat to the celebrant, who holds it himself while he spoons on the incense. Then the celebrant waits patiently until the thurifer has closed the lid and cinched the ring, before he hands the boat back to the thurifer. Don't take it from him unless you are ready. You need both your hands to safely open the thurible. You need both your hands to safely hold the opened thurible while it is being charged and blessed. You need both your hands to safely close the thurible. Only then can you safely take the boat back from the celebrant.
(iii) One usually bears the boat in the left hand; though, see below.
(iv) Boat bearers needn't be children. Upon my first visit to Smokey Mary's, Time Square, I believe it was Methuselah himself who bore the boat in a grand procession to a Lady shrine. At Our Lady of Hardwork, the ancient acolyte warden isn't too august to serve a newly fledged thurifer as his assistant to bear the boat.
(v) Thurible is right about the left-hand-unblessed/right-hand-blessed rigamarole, but if you are driving a child as boat bearer, it's best to leave this rule by the wayside so as not to confuse the boat bearer. It's hard work being led around by an adult thurifer; there is no need to make it any harder for a six year-old by mysteriously switching sides.
(vi) Unless the celebrant is blessing the incense in the sacristy (or wherever before the mass) (and he shouldn't be) it isn't necessary for the celebrant to spoon in the incense. The smell of burning charcoal (quick light or not) is not edifying for anyone. Part of the preparation of the thurible is for the thurifer to 'sweeten' the pot with a small bit of incense just before the bell. The thurifer prepares the way for the processional cross, so this thurifer thinks a full spoon's worth is the right amount.
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
According to this post, Carys is driving boat bearers while not dropping the thurible. Congratulations are in order! I think recruitment is a wonderful thing. Get'em while they're young.
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Thank you to all who provide the marvelousness of burning incense. I was at a service on Sunday at a church which always has incense and the church was redolent with the blessed scent of itself even before the thurifer appeared. Then he did an (incredibly calm) 360 ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) in procession right as he passed my pew! Did he sense an incense-starved visitor?
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
According to this post, Carys is driving boat bearers while not dropping the thurible. Congratulations are in order! I think recruitment is a wonderful thing. Get'em while they're young.
What IS a good age for starting them? I think my son is still a little lively at 6, but it would be good to think about giving him a role in church in the not too distant future
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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highchurc
Shipmate
# 11491
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Posted
quote:
Part of the preparation of the thurible is for the thurifer to 'sweeten' the pot with a small bit of incense just before the bell. The thurifer prepares the way for the processional cross...
And just where does this come from?
Any Anglo-Catholic know that a processional cross is only used when a proper procession precedes the Liturgy.
The entrance of the Sacred Ministers from the sacristy is NOT a procession.
'Sweeten' the pot, indeed!
Posts: 234 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Really? We always use a cross during the entrance of the Sacred Ministers, servers, and choir.
We don't enter from the sacristy, though, but process up the main aisle.
[ 08. January 2008, 12:57: Message edited by: Liturgy Queen ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by highchurc:
quote:
Part of the preparation of the thurible is for the thurifer to 'sweeten' the pot with a small bit of incense just before the bell. The thurifer prepares the way for the processional cross...
And just where does this come from?
Any Anglo-Catholic know that a processional cross is only used when a proper procession precedes the Liturgy.
The entrance of the Sacred Ministers from the sacristy is NOT a procession.
No, but the Cross is still commonly used in this context. Local usage and all that.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
It is good to have you back highchurc; I was hoping you wouldn't abandon us. Don't be such a stranger.
Regarding processions at the entrance, I hate to quote chapter and verse to you, but an insufferable ceremonialist like me has gotta do what an insufferable ceremonialist has gotta do.
It really depends on one's taste, but let's start with Lamburn's 11th edition of Ritual Notes.
quote:
[tangent]And before you lot start you carping about the inferior, modern version I'm quoting from, lemme tell you that (purchased at the bookstore of the National Cathedral of St. Peter of the Bendy Poles for fifty shekels!) this is the only one I can afford. Should you be willing to donate an approved edition to my library, I would be much obliged.[/tangent]
As I was saying, in the columnar presentation of The Ceremonies of High Mass, Before the Service, in the sections headed The Vesting and The Entry into the Church (153), Lamburn writes these things: quote:
[The thurifer] … prepares glowing charcoal in the censer.
…
At the signal from the MC [the thurifer] leads the procession into the church, carrying the censer with the glowing charcoal in his left hand, and the incense boat in his right.
…
At the signal from the MC [the acolytes] take up their candles, and follow the thurifer at the head of the procession. If the processional cross is carried, the crucifer walks between the acolytes.
In the 10th edition of Fortescue's and O'Connell's Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described in the section entitled "§ 3. PROCESSION TO THE ALTAR" (98) we find the following "order of procession":- (Verger or Mace-bearer).
- Thurifer².
- Second Acolyte. First Acolyte.
- Torch-bearers in pairs (without torches).
- Choir in pairs.
- Master of Ceremonies.
- Subdeacon.
- Deacon.
- Celebrant.
The footnote for ² is this: "Putting into the thurible and blessing incense to be carried at the head of the procession, and the use of a processional cross, are features of a pontifical Mass celebrated at the throne (C.E. II, viii 23, 24)."
So we can see that the walk from the sacristy to the sanctuary is, indeed, a procession, and that, depending on who you read, such a procession may be headed by the processional cross. Modern churches often have the vesting sacristy for the sacred ministers close by the sanctuary. It is not unheard of for the vesting sacristy to be at the west end while the altar is at the east end. Surely for such a trip through the unwashed in the nave a mace, incense, and a processional-cross-lead procession are merely practical.
The peccadillo to which I was admitting (shoveling in incense to cover the smell of the charcoal) gets a glancing mention in Fortescue and O'Connell.
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Another day for the thurifer at our place this Sunday (yes I don't like transferring to a Sunday but it's better than not keeping at all). Hopefully have a boat girl again.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
Seeing this thread at the top of the page reminded me - I never reported back on the latest in my attempts to get the long-neglected thurible clean.
ACETONE works best. Nearly dissolves all the gunk on impact, and doesn't hurt the silver. The only issue is that you have to wipe off the dissolved gunk fast or it re-sets, but that's not a major issue, since you can just add more acetone. I bought a plastic spray bottle and found that spraying the acetone on the thurible allows me to get it where I need it without wasting as much of the chemical as pouring tends to do.
The main problem is the fumes, so you have to be careful about that. And it's tough on your hands, so wear gloves.
The ethanol, a.k.a. ethyl alcohol, worked OK but still required a lot of effort. Then again, I never found any stronger than 70%. Which is another point in favor of the acetone - it's easier to come by.
Then I tend to follow up with a silver polish or at least dish soap to get rid of any remaining acetone (since it's highly flammable) and any remaining sticky residue.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
So we can see that the walk from the sacristy to the sanctuary is, indeed, a procession, and that, depending on who you read, such a procession may be headed by the processional cross. Modern churches often have the vesting sacristy for the sacred ministers close by the sanctuary. It is not unheard of for the vesting sacristy to be at the west end while the altar is at the east end. Surely for such a trip through the unwashed in the nave a mace, incense, and a processional-cross-lead procession are merely practical.
In many churches with an east-end sacristy the entry procession nevertheless comes through the nave. It's important because the priest and ministers are thus identifying themselves with the whole congregation, not just appearing from the wings like actors in a play.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Seeing this thread at the top of the page reminded me - I never reported back on the latest in my attempts to get the long-neglected thurible clean.
ACETONE works best. Nearly dissolves all the gunk on impact, and doesn't hurt the silver. The only issue is that you have to wipe off the dissolved gunk fast or it re-sets, but that's not a major issue, since you can just add more acetone. I bought a plastic spray bottle and found that spraying the acetone on the thurible allows me to get it where I need it without wasting as much of the chemical as pouring tends to do.
I'm with you on the acetone though my technique differs -- I use cotton wool pads (currently organic cotton!) and put the pad on the top of the open bottle and quickly tip it upside down and back again (and usually do this four times in slightly different places on the pad) this can then be used to wipe around the thurible. I started with neat acetone, but used up the 50ml on the first clean. Now I've got a nail varnish remover that still has acetone in it (thank you Co-op pharmacy) which is diluted but does the job of keeping the thurible clean. I also line the thurible with the bottom of quiche trays which keeps the coal gunk off the inside of the thurible.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
So we can see that the walk from the sacristy to the sanctuary is, indeed, a procession, and that, depending on who you read, such a procession may be headed by the processional cross. Modern churches often have the vesting sacristy for the sacred ministers close by the sanctuary. It is not unheard of for the vesting sacristy to be at the west end while the altar is at the east end. Surely for such a trip through the unwashed in the nave a mace, incense, and a processional-cross-lead procession are merely practical.
In many churches with an east-end sacristy the entry procession nevertheless comes through the nave. It's important because the priest and ministers are thus identifying themselves with the whole congregation, not just appearing from the wings like actors in a play.
Quite so, Angloid. It serves something of the same purpose as the odd loop-de-loop through the nave with the Gifts, done in Orthodox churches at the Great Entrance.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Seeing this thread at the top of the page reminded me - I never reported back on the latest in my attempts to get the long-neglected thurible clean.
ACETONE works best. Nearly dissolves all the gunk on impact, and doesn't hurt the silver. The only issue is that you have to wipe off the dissolved gunk fast or it re-sets, but that's not a major issue, since you can just add more acetone. I bought a plastic spray bottle and found that spraying the acetone on the thurible allows me to get it where I need it without wasting as much of the chemical as pouring tends to do.
I'm with you on the acetone though my technique differs -- I use cotton wool pads (currently organic cotton!) and put the pad on the top of the open bottle and quickly tip it upside down and back again (and usually do this four times in slightly different places on the pad) this can then be used to wipe around the thurible. I started with neat acetone, but used up the 50ml on the first clean. Now I've got a nail varnish remover that still has acetone in it (thank you Co-op pharmacy) which is diluted but does the job of keeping the thurible clean. I also line the thurible with the bottom of quiche trays which keeps the coal gunk off the inside of the thurible.
Carys
We use mineral spirits which is less flammable and less toxic - fume-wise and also milder on your hands.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Our crowd uses jellied paint stripper. It is nasty to humans (use it at a work sink, take the trouble to mount hooks for the thurible's ring and for the chain-ring so thurible and its lid can be suspended, keep the area well ventilated, and wear rubber gloves), but it doesn't seem to damage the solid brass thurible. We treat the less-used silver thurible much more gently.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Laurence
Shipmate
# 9135
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Posted
Dear All-
Would anyone have any suggestions as to a good brand of incense for burning quietly at home, a few grains at a time on a charcoal lozenge, while saying / singing the Daily Offices by the fireside?
I imagine the lush spendours of Rosa Mystica, while perfuming a sixty-foot tall nave rather effectively, would probably be a bit overwhelming for a small front room!
And, indeed, could people suggest the best place from which to get said austere and restrained incense?
Many thanks indeed!
Posts: 648 | From: Lincolnshire | Registered: Feb 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
You can get little packets of the various Prinknash incenses for a couple of quid or so from the St. Paul's Bookshop at Westminster Cathedral (and doubtless from elsewhere!). Each pack contains 5 charcoal lozenges (IIRC) and enough incense to last for quite a while. I would recommend breaking a lozenge into two or three pieces, and lighting just one of the bits, if only a small amount of smoke is required. I find it's quite sufficient, and the smell is certainly not overpowering or oversweet, no matter which variety you use. Others may differ in their opinion, of course.
My local New Age crystal etc. shop sold me a nice little brass incense-burner - not a thurible as such, as it is designed to simply sit there and smoke........!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laurence:
Would anyone have any suggestions as to a good brand of incense for burning quietly at home, a few grains at a time on a charcoal lozenge, while saying / singing the Daily Offices by the fireside?
Check your local (Roman) Catholic church-supplies store for natural or pure frankincense with no scents added. It's the churchiest!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
The Hare Krishnas make rose-scented incense sticks that smell like the English Rose we tend to use at our parish. St. Percy would approve.
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
If you scroll down on this page to picture 14 you can see incense-on-a-string in a Bhutanese Buddhist coronation rite in a way that I've never seen outside of Christendom.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Is this how they are training priests these day? Egan's hand is practically higher than his head! How on earth can the fool get a good snap of the wrist with his arm waving up in the air like that? Does he do it this way so folk can see the thurible? He's got good smoke—that's what we want to see, not the phreaking appliance.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prosfonesis:
Is this how they are training priests these day? Egan's hand is practically higher than his head! How on earth can the fool get a good snap of the wrist with his arm waving up in the air like that? Does he do it this way so folk can see the thurible? He's got good smoke—that's what we want to see, not the phreaking appliance.
Nah, looks like he's afraid of the blessed thing...
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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catholicedinburgh
Apprentice
# 12668
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Posted
A question for the experts. I have recently recommenced serving again after a 4 year lapse during which I swam the Tiber. Last Sunday I was thurifer when His Eminence was in residence. What I would like to know is this. Is it permissible to top up the thurible when on the sidelines before the Sanctus so there is sufficient smoke for the elevations? Last Sunday after everyone at the altar had been censed and we had sung the Sanctus there was not much smoke left at all ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I would like to avoid this situation if at all possible
Thanks
Posts: 22 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: May 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by catholicedinburgh:
A question for the experts. I have recently recommenced serving again after a 4 year lapse during which I swam the Tiber. Last Sunday I was thurifer when His Eminence was in residence. What I would like to know is this. Is it permissible to top up the thurible when on the sidelines before the Sanctus so there is sufficient smoke for the elevations? Last Sunday after everyone at the altar had been censed and we had sung the Sanctus there was not much smoke left at all
I would like to avoid this situation if at all possible
Thanks
Well firstly: welcome back!
And secondly: yes, it's generally considered quite appropriate to 'top up' blessed incense without the need for further blessings, if one is running out. As 'little and often' is the best way of getting good smoke without smothering the coals, this is what will generally happen, in fact.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Somewhere on the Candles thread, I think, there is the description of the thurifer going to the sacristy after the incensation of the all the con-celebrants of the mass (to use an emerging Orthodox turn of phrase that means everybody), returning before/after(?) the Sanctus.
At Our Lady of Hardwork, the MC and thurifer are kneeling together in the sanctuary after the Benedictus qui venit and have enough time to blow, stir, and spoon so that the Gifts cum Mysteries get the honor they deserve.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
It has always been customary for the thurifer to add incense prior to the consecraion. In addition to the practical aspects of doing so, incense used on the Blessed Sacrament Itself is never blessed; its use on the Most Holy is considered its own blessing. This is why the priest spoons, but does not bless, incense at Benediction.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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