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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Incense and thuribles
Oblatus
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I've twice cleaned a very grotty thurible by spraying the inside (not the silver plating!) with EZ-Off oven cleaner (the lemon-scented low-fumes type that doesn't require turning the oven on) and placing the thurible in the oven overnight (just to contain what fumes were given off). The next morning it wiped clean, and I lined it with foil to help make it easier next time...and not require oven cleaner.
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Corpus cani

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Neither - we send it off to some specialist cleaners!!!

What? Every time you use it? I spy a parish that doesn't pay its quota! [Snigger]

Corpus

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Bells&Smells
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Thanks to all who have replied, this has been most useful (and reading through this earlier thread has helped too).

It seems that using lots of incense on expensive charcoal is best, and that either Prinknash Basillica or Frankincnse with essential oils is best for the actual incense.

This will be the first time that I have actually swung for Mass (though I've seen it pleanty of times, and have had a quick go before), so I will make sure I practise. Any tips will be gratefully recieved.

I'm keen to know how many charcoal briquettes should be used (for a moderate-large thurible), and if its possible to use just one set for the entire Mass (since I think it may be difficult to add more during Mass)?

Thanks again.

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Max.
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quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Neither - we send it off to some specialist cleaners!!!

What? Every time you use it? I spy a parish that doesn't pay its quota! [Snigger]

Corpus

Of course we don't send it off everytime we use it, it's used at least twice a week (Family Mass and Benediction/Evening Service) - sometimes we have a high mass on certain holy days and Friday Exposition sometimes has incense if I'm around.

We get it cleaned when it's dirty!

-103

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Ultraspike

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If you're using quik-lites you should use three or four but they only last about 20 minutes. They can be easily lit and only take 5 minutes to get ready. The real charcoal (we use Kingsford, which I think is the best in the US) takes about 20 minutes to cook but they burn hotter and make better smoke. Use four or five for a moderate size thurible. And no, you won't make it through the whole service with one set of charcoals no matter what type you use. You could get by with one for the introit and the gospel and then get a fresh set for the offertory and consecration. Hope that helps. Happy smoking!
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jlg

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quote:
Originally posted by Bells&Smells:
I'm keen to know how many charcoal briquettes should be used (for a moderate-large thurible),...

I'm no expert, but you'll need however many it takes to make a full single layer in your particular thurible; probably better to have a bit of overlap than big gaps that will let the incense grains fall through the charcoal layer.

quote:
... and if its possible to use just one set for the entire Mass (since I think it may be difficult to add more during Mass)?
The trick is to stash a charcoal or two someplace near where the thurible will be at the time it needs replenishing (the credence table, the base of the thurible stand, next to the thurifer's chair/stool - anyplace it won't get stepped on). When the time* comes, the thurifer adopts the time-honored "if you act like you know what you're doing, you can get away with anything" face and just calmly goes to the thurible and does what's necessary, and then returns to his/her usual rest position.

*Decide beforehand on a particular time for this to happen, tied to some liturgical cue like the congregation standing to recite the Creed or when someone else will also be moving around, providing a bit of a distraction. [Smile]

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Max.
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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
quote:
Originally posted by Bells&Smells:
I'm keen to know how many charcoal briquettes should be used (for a moderate-large thurible),...

I'm no expert, but you'll need however many it takes to make a full single layer in your particular thurible; probably better to have a bit of overlap than big gaps that will let the incense grains fall through the charcoal layer.

quote:
... and if its possible to use just one set for the entire Mass (since I think it may be difficult to add more during Mass)?
The trick is to stash a charcoal or two someplace near where the thurible will be at the time it needs replenishing (the credence table, the base of the thurible stand, next to the thurifer's chair/stool - anyplace it won't get stepped on). When the time* comes, the thurifer adopts the time-honored "if you act like you know what you're doing, you can get away with anything" face and just calmly goes to the thurible and does what's necessary, and then returns to his/her usual rest position.

*Decide beforehand on a particular time for this to happen, tied to some liturgical cue like the congregation standing to recite the Creed or when someone else will also be moving around, providing a bit of a distraction. [Smile]

Oooh, putting charcoal on the thurible during the mass is a really bad idea!
Go out during the Homily and do it in the Sacristy, that way the congragation won't be distrubed with the odd snap, crackle or pop!

-103

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The Scrumpmeister
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At my old church, where smoke is a weekly thing, I used to leave the sanctuary to add more charcoal. It also served as a good time to get rid of the charcoal dust and incense that had settled in the thurible, so that there was a clean thurible. A bowl of water nearby comes in very handy for this. It is better done out of sight of the congo, but if the layout of the church isn't conducive to this (without you walking through the nave), then follow jlg's advice.

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Bells&Smells
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Ok. Thanks for that.

From what I've read it seems best to use the Kingsford charcoal - so I will if I can get hold of it.

So how do I manage this: if they take 20 mins to prepare, and the sermon is only 10mins MAX, how am I going to put the new coals into the thurible? Or can I just partially prepare them, then rely upon what's left in the thurible, until they get going?

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The Scrumpmeister
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TBH, most churches I know of use the quicklite stuff. If you only use it occasionally, it's perhaps not worth the expense of Kingford, which I think is intended for barbecues, hence the time it tyakes to prepare. The quicklite brickets are manufactured with ecclesiastical use in mind.

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jlg

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Wheeeee! I finally got my chance to be thurifer today (at a funeral). Thanks to all of you here, we had nice clouds of incense and I didn't end up banging the thurible into my legs while turning corners, or any thing else obviously stupid.

(We were serving with a deacon, though, which caused some moments of confusion, but that's another topic.)

And as it happens, I can point out another virtue of the quicklite charcoals -- if you need to break them in half in order to fit them through the access holes on your crummy** thurible when re-stoking the fires partway through the service, the quicklites snap in two quite easily and relatively neatly.

**(Our thurible is designed with large openings in the cover, but no way to lift the cover, once it's hot, except with a hotpad or tongs or something.)

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
**(Our thurible is designed with large openings in the cover, but no way to lift the cover, once it's hot, except with a hotpad or tongs or something.)

Wow...no central chain to pull it up, huh?
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jlg

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Nope. Which means the incense has to be spooned through these same openings and some of it always ends up on the floor.

The matching boat also has a fixed lid, so one has to spoon in the incense in tiny portions when filling it and there is no way to open it up completely and clean it out when changing 'flavors'.

Where's a good place (US) to get a decent thurible and boat? I've a mind to make a tat donation.

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Frater_Frag
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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
...Where's a good place (US) to get a decent thurible and boat? I've a mind to make a tat donation.

You could try one of these, I´m must confess that I´m rather curious about them! [Biased]

Electric Thurible

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Max.
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quote:
Originally posted by Frater_Frag:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
...Where's a good place (US) to get a decent thurible and boat? I've a mind to make a tat donation.

You could try one of these, I´m must confess that I´m rather curious about them! [Biased]

Electric Thurible

I'm curious about them too BUT I don't think I would want one until I've seen one with my own eyes. It might be absolutly rubbish!

-103

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moveable_type
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There's this one:

http://tinyurl.com/a8pmr

('Quality:Eximious.' Location: Shanghai. Who could ask for more?)

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Ultraspike

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Couldn't find a price on this one, but the one I saw before was pretty expensive. Somehow I don't think it would be the same without the charcoal smoke. Like making barbecue on an electric grill, it just wouldn't have that primal essence.

You can find some decent thuribles at Patrick Baker.

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St. Punk the Pious

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Wow. I had no idea smoking up a church was so involved. This thread will make me appreciate my next visit to Smokey Matt's that much more.

(I might go there tomorrow morning.)

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Corpus cani

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quote:
Originally posted by Frater_Frag:
You could try one of these, I´m must confess that I´m rather curious about them! Electric Thurible

I'm intrigued too, in an appalled kind of way.

What do you suppose "eight cycles per load" means? Makes it sound like a washing machine!

Corpus

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leo
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The e-bay thurible is used in Buddhist temple ceremonies - I've seen one like it. It's not swung towards anything bnut is waved in a circular motion befoe the statue(s) of Buddha. It's not dissimilar to the arto ceremony in hindu temples where a lamp is waved.

The electronic thurible seems like a good idea because all those people who moan about incense and its effects on their asthma might be won over - I think it's largely the additives in speedy-light charcoal that art off their attacks. We had less complaints in the days of my youth when we could only use slow charcoal and stand around with tongues for half an hour to get started. (Then again, we had less asthma then, I quess)

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jlg

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Oooh, I like that Buddhist one with the dragon!

Father M, however, is a Very Good Catholic Boy and considers Eastern Religions opportunities for Satan. He definitely wouldn't like it. Not to mention it has no chains for swinging.

However, we do share pyromaniac tendencies (you should see our Easter Vigil fire! [Big Grin] ) and no way is an "electric" thurible going to cross the threshold of our church.

Btw, I found a picture of our thurible (it's the upper-right one) on CorgiGreta's site. It seems it is supposed to have a little bakelite knob on the cover for lifting when hot -- ours must have been broken off at some time in the past. If it had that, it would actually be a nice thurible; it's very solid and heavy and so swings nicely and easily, and the openings are big and allow great clouds of incense out with very little action.

The boat, with its fixed lid, is still an abomination, however.

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brackenrigg
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My local cathedral (West Riding) uses a small thurible (called the handbag) for women and wimps to swing, and a large one for blokes.
Smoke is in evidence at Sunday Solemn Masses and weekday Solemn Evensongs, and 360 degree swings are allowed.
Parts of the cathedral are out of bounds to the thurifer which makes for more fun in processions, when the thurifer goes off on a different route.

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Crotalus
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quote:
Originally posted by brackenrigg:
Parts of the cathedral are out of bounds to the thurifer

Why?

[ 20. July 2005, 14:03: Message edited by: Crotalus ]

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Carys

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quote:
Originally posted by Crotalus:
quote:
Originally posted by brackenrigg:
Parts of the cathedral are out of bounds to the thurifer

Why?
Smoke dectectors?

Carys

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Advocatus Diaboli
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Retired standards laid up in side chapels?

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sir galahad
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I havn't been a thrurifer for a couple of years- so this may be terribly outre now (apologies) but we always used to gring up half of the incense in a coffee grinder before depositing it in the boat etc. etc.

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Ultraspike

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Welcome, Sir Galahad. I assume you meant to say "grind". Be careful not to grind too fine or you will be burning it up too quickly and it will smell more like burning than roasting. You really don't need to grind it unless you're talking about huge chunks of frankincense and myrrh, which I do sometimes grind to small chunks in a small food processor. But most commercial brands and my own blends do not require grinding. We have a thurifer who likes to grind the incense to a powder with a mortar and pestle (which I now keep hidden). Then he wonders why it smells so acrid. [Disappointed]

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The Silent Acolyte

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quote:
My jaw drops at:
My local cathedral (West Riding) uses a small thurible (called the handbag) for women and wimps to swing, and a large one for blokes.

Maybe I shouldn't rise to the bait, but...brackenrigg, please tell me this comment was an exception and not evidence of systemic oafishness.
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Anselmina
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Welcome, Sir Galahad.

Please feel free to acquaint yourself with the boards and get to know the posting guidelines for each. Happy sailing.

Anselmina
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The Silent Acolyte

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quote:
Ultraspike cautions:
Be careful not to grind too fine or you will be burning it up too quickly....

This is quite true. My crowd loves to shovel it on with heaping spoonfuls (three). We have an offertory procession lead by the thurifer, so, when I think of it, I'll use just powder before I leave the sacristy with the torches. That way the powder is just about gone when we arrive at the sedilia for the charging and blessing. With a pot empty of incense, there no reason for father to stint.
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jlg

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The following exchange was posted on another thread but belongs here:

quote:
Originally posted by Angelus:
[17 October, 2005 08:36]
I am preparing to act as Thurifer at our Patronal Festival in November, and when I was at Walsingham recently I bought some lovely sweet Frankincense. I am planning to use it, but it comes in very large chunks and I wondered whether it would work when mixed in with our usual stuff, Prinknash Basilica.
Any thoughts?

quote:
Reply posted by Cosmo:
[17 October, 2005 08:52]
Unlikely to work with that horrible acrid Basilica (which is banned from the Cosmodrome except in Lent and Advent for penitence). The nastiness of the scent given off by Basilica is such that even sweetsmelling stuff is unlikely to make any difference.

I would suggest, if you prefer to use Prinknash products, to use their 'Priory' blend or even 'Sanctuary' and then stir your own lumps with the rest; it doesn't need to be cruched up. These brands are much finer in texture, have a more delicate scent and are much more flexible than ghastly Basilica.

quote:
Reply posted by dj_ordinaire:
[17 October, 2005 09:01]
Rather depends upon the church in which you use it - Basilica can go horribly wrong, but in some churches is more-or-less your only option - there's a lot of variation from uilding to building (or Holy House, or 'drome, &c.)...

I'd imagine that the effect of adding frankincense would be similarly stochastic, so whatever you decide I'd suggest trying it out a few days before the service just to get the measure of it.

quote:
Posted by Angelus:
[17 October, 2005 09:23]
Thanks guys,

I have never really been a fan of Basilica, but our head server seems to like it. I will suggest we try one of the sweeter Prinknash brands.

O - how do you mean it can vary from building to building? Do you mean as in the size of the building?


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The Scrumpmeister
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Frankincense on its own is quite sufficient. No need to mix it with the sickly-sweet pre-blended stuff (and I must consur with those who have gone before about Basilica). Frankincense just smells of "church". That's the best I can express it.

If the size of the grains is a problem, pestle them into various sizes. All too large and it takes ages before they start to burn properly. All too small and you get an instant puff of smoke that disappears in a few seconds. You want to get a mix of sizes.

If your parish is dedicated in honour of Our Lady, why not add a few drops of rose essential oil - just enough to add a light rose scent and not so much that the church ends up smelling like a whore's boudoir. [Frown]

Do let us know how you get on.

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Fiddleback
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Basilica is sickly and very nasty - to the point of being eye-watering. The Burford Priory blends are generally far better than anything they turn out in Prinknash - except the one labeled 'Sherborne' which is crap. Their best are 'Evesham' and 'Glastonbury'.
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Fr Alex
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Just to let you know, Rosa Mystica should now be available again direct from Alton Abbey - last year it was in the final drying process.

Also, how do you know what a a whore's boudoir smells like Back to Front? [Smile]

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The Scrumpmeister
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Hey, a girl's got to make a living. [Biased]

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by Fr Alex:
Just to let you know, Rosa Mystica should now be available again direct from Alton Abbey - last year it was in the final drying process.

I bought a bag of it in Walsingham at the beginning of September. Very nice. Nearly all gone now, though.

Dave

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Corpus cani

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quote:
Originally posted by Back-to-Front:
Hey, a girl's got to make a living. [Biased]

Oh Crikey - have we met...?

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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.

Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Corpus cani

Ship's Anachronism
# 1663

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Erm... no I meant to add that, in Trumpton, we use various Prinknash blends with no real problems. Then again, our Lady of Trumpton is a big enough building to conceal hideous odours whilst retaining the "scent of the cense" for days after the Mass.

Whatever incense / blend one uses, there must be enough of it to hide the burning of charcoal (I'm with 103 on this [sorry- can't remember the thread]- it's the burning charcoal that sets off the "I'm allergic to incense / I'm too asthmatic to cope with this" band, unless those who are "allergic" just spark off at the first sight of a thurible.)

We often use Priory with odd nuggets of "things" brought back from Greece by one of our servers. Otherwise, Priory works for us on its own - and it's the one I use at home too.

Granted my Chapel may be bigger than some people's houses, but once one has the servants and one's house-guests ensconced, the air clears quite quickly. Of course, it does horrible things to the inside of the pipes of my Father Willis...

Corpus

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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.

Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anglo-Smashlick
Apprentice
# 9871

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I've actually seen one of these electric thuribles used, and it only produced a tiny wisp of smoke. It looked very, very pathetic.

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Santo Stupido!

Posts: 16 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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quote:
Originally posted by Angelus:
O - how do you mean it can vary from building to building? Do you mean as in the size of the building?

quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Erm... no I meant to add that, in Trumpton, we use various Prinknash blends with no real problems. Then again, our Lady of Trumpton is a big enough building to conceal hideous odours whilst retaining the "scent of the cense" for days after the Mass.

Along with Angelus, I am curious about this business of the effect of a particular incense varying from building to building. Corpus cani seems to be saying that in a large space, objectionable but minor scents in a blend will quickly away while the nicer ones will disperse and linger.

Does anyone else have opinions about this? Is it just sheer quantity of space or do the materials (stone and wood versus plasterboard and carpet?) make a difference?

[ 17. October 2005, 22:22: Message edited by: jlg ]

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Corpus cani

Ship's Anachronism
# 1663

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I think maybe I meant that it's a big enough space for the "nice" and the "not nice" to blend in to a "bearable" lingering.

Perhaps if we use a ghastly blend alone it has enough space to spread out and become, if nothing else, at least bearable in its lingering.

Does that help?

Corps

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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.

Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

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quote:
Originally posted by David Goode:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Alex:
Just to let you know, Rosa Mystica should now be available again direct from Alton Abbey - last year it was in the final drying process.

I bought a bag of it in Walsingham at the beginning of September. Very nice. Nearly all gone now, though.

Dave

That stuff is nauseating. Way too much rose, darlin, it's not a tart's boudoir. [Projectile] I have found that a few drops of high quality Rose Maroc with alot of frankincense is the best blend ever. I used to mix alot of different oils but the purity of frankincense with a little rose is surely the scent of heaven! [Yipee] Add some myrrh for penitential seasons.

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A cowgirl's work is never done.

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The Silent Acolyte

Shipmate
# 1158

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Y'all should pay attention to Ultraspike and B2F and take their advice. We did and we've never looked back. A nice frankincense is really all you need, enlivened as they suggest with rose or myrrh.

Search high and low until you find an importer who will sell you a 50 kilo sack of it. Then you can have done with the ruinously expensive here-a-pound-there-a-pound purchasing model.

Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
jlg

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# 98

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Any advice on where to get a 50# sack? I'll happily disburse it among my local parishes in return for a promise to make full use of it. [Big Grin]
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643

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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Does anyone else have opinions about this? Is it just sheer quantity of space or do the materials (stone and wood versus plasterboard and carpet?) make a difference?

I'm not really sure - I asked a more experienced friend about this and he muttered darkly about 'damp' being involved... it just seems to be an empirical thing.

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Flinging wide the gates...

Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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I bought some incense from the shop near Sante Sulpice in Paris, intending it to be kept for my funeral mass in the future but incense doesn;t always smell the same 'cold' as when you burn some and it turned out, when I tried some, to be of the 'tart's boudoir' variety (as far as I can guess, having been in such a room)

[ 18. October 2005, 14:19: Message edited by: leo ]

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117

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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Does anyone else have opinions about this? Is it just sheer quantity of space or do the materials (stone and wood versus plasterboard and carpet?) make a difference?

I'm not really sure - I asked a more experienced friend about this and he muttered darkly about 'damp' being involved... it just seems to be an empirical thing.
As you sure it was 'damp' he muttered and not 'camp'? As I'm sure you know, there is all the difference in the world between camp incense and butch incense.

Me, I'd go for camp every time but then I love Spanish baroque altars, Statues of Our Lady with huge copes and gold crowns not to mention tits to toe lace albs.

It's the one way I know that marks me out as straight.

Cosmo

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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643

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Really? The *only* way?

[we were talking about Rosa Mystica at the time... so maybe...]

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Flinging wide the gates...

Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

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jlg, I can hook you up if you can drive down to the dock in New Jersey to get it, but it's a 110 lb. sack minimum, extra fine quality though, so worth the trip.

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A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117

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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
Really? The *only* way?

[we were talking about Rosa Mystica at the time... so maybe...]

It's only the straight priests who are happy getting the lace albs out of the cupboard, getting the Banners of Our Lady from out of the drawers as well as using the campest incense going.

Those clergy who are 'good with colours' are too scared to; very sad.

Cosmo

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