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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Wycliffe Hall in trouble
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Magistra
Apprentice
# 13066
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Posted
Some telling comments from Richard Turnbull in his Principal's Letter in the latest Wycliffe newsletter. Nothing that will surprise Shipmates, but here are the edited highlights nonetheless:
quote:
The calling which we have at Wycliffe is strategic. In other words, the role we play, the influence we have and the priorities which we adopt have impact beyond the immediate and the local. We are set within the historic University of Oxford and we have responsibilities to both the CofE and a wider global Evangelical movement. ...
if we do not commit ourselves to sending out ministers who know the gospel, can preach it, commend it and live it, then the Church of England could once again [?!] lapse into being a hindrance to the gospel rather than a means. Many have given their lives for Evangelical truth. We have a responsibility, which goes beyond our immediate concerns, to ensure that the heritage of those men and women who have served in parishes down the centuries, who have taken the gospel to new lands and brought the gospel to bear upon our society, is honoured, their passion replicated and their confidence in the gospel emulated for the future. ...
In order to ensure that Wycliffe can pursue this strategic influence for the future we are launching a Church Partnership scheme. This is to enable the Hall and parishes to partner together in this strategic purpose for the gospel. ... We also hope that churches will commit to an annual gift to ensure greater financial independence for the Hall [italics mine in this case], to ensure that the heritage of our forebears is passed on to the future, and that the progress of the gospel in both this country and overseas is well served.
Well, it's not difficult to read between the lines here, and no one will be surprised that Turnbull is planning for Wycliffe's 'independent' future. I was just surprised to see his strategy laid out so transparently, and also interested to note that the noun 'gospel' is in lower case while the adjective 'Evangelical' is capitalized. Both grammatically and theologically suspect.
Posts: 37 | From: Oxford | Registered: Oct 2007
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
If I were ++ Rowan I would be wanting +Cicestr to tell me what he proposes to do about this behaviour on the part of his suffragan.
Well since ++Rowan apparently did nothing when one of his own suffragans threatened to leave for Rome, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Not least because +Rowan has implied that he would fully understand why one of his suffragans might feel that he was no longer welcome.
Thurible
Going to Rome (or anywhere else outside the Communion) is one thing. Encouraging other people, in another Province, to reject the authority of their Bishops and seek oversight from another Province of the Communion is another.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
It's been said before that a diocese is only geographical on a map. The bishop gathers the community of faith about himself as apostle; he also leads in proclamation outwards. Where the faith is differently received and understood, bishops naturally overlap. The ancient Church understood this.
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Indeed - and a bishop's geographical territory already has holes in it e.g. prison and hospital chaplaincies, royal peculiars like Westminster Abbey etc.
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magistra:
also interested to note that the noun 'gospel' is in lower case while the adjective 'Evangelical' is capitalized. Both grammatically and theologically suspect.
Actually it's fairly standard. A capital G for Gospel would tend to imply one of the first four books of the New Testament, rather than the good news of Christ, and lower case E evangelical means to do with the gospel or taken from the Gospels, rather than a particular wing of the Church.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
It's been said before that a diocese is only geographical on a map. The bishop gathers the community of faith about himself as apostle; he also leads in proclamation outwards. Where the faith is differently received and understood, bishops naturally overlap. The ancient Church understood this.
Resists temptation to say something rude.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Dintin
Apprentice
# 14165
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Posted
Just seen this article on Jonathan Wynne-Jones posting, about the state of evangelicalism after the meeting in London. It seems relevant to this thread, especially the bit where he says: quote:
With no warning, they were asked to sign up to a resolution that expressed support for the Gafcon movement and its Jerusalem Declaration - essentially a new 'church within a church' for Anglicanism.
Considering they had no idea it was to be presented and were told no amendments were permitted, it would have taken a skilled orator to talk them around.
Instead it was left to Mr Turnbull, a college principle with the people skills of a dalek, to try to cajole them into it.
The problems he has had at Wycliffe are now being played out on the larger stage as a growing number of evangelicals feel alienated by his approach
See the rest of the article on http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/jonathanwynnejones/blog/2008/11/25/squabbling_evangelicals_need_to_find_a_united_voice web page
The big question seems to be - when is anybody going to do anything about this man?
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
[Complete tangent] Is Jonathan Wynne-Jones any relation to author Diana Wynne-Jones? [/complete tangent]
[ 29. November 2008, 15:13: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Magistra
Apprentice
# 13066
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Posted
quote:
Actually it's fairly standard. A capital G for Gospel would tend to imply one of the first four books of the New Testament, rather than the good news of Christ, and lower case E evangelical means to do with the gospel or taken from the Gospels, rather than a particular wing of the Church.
Thanks for this Greyface, I take back the remark about capitalization! Just looked odd to me.
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
What is Evangelical truth - it's clearly something different from the Gospel - and sounds suspiciously relativistic. Is R Turnbull a closet New Ager?
I have no idea who licenses clergy in Royal Peculiars but as far as prison chaplaincies go you are licenced by the Bishop to work within his Diocese and I'm pretty sure it's the same for hospitals.
There is (or was) a Chaplain general for prisons but he does not have Bishop status. There is also a 'Bishop for prisons' who takes an interest in prison chaplaincy and represents the views of prison chaplaincy as appropriate but does not licence chaplains.
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i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
There is nothing new in the Principal of an Oxford college or hall asking for money to ensure financial independence in the future. That is not confined to Wycliffe Hall.
Nothing new in Evangelical (or anglo-catholic) foundations asking for money to preserve its future either.
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leftfieldlover
Shipmate
# 13467
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Posted
Absolutely.
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I can gauge your mood from your approach to food.
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arrietty:
I have no idea who licenses clergy in Royal Peculiars but as far as prison chaplaincies go you are licenced by the Bishop to work within his Diocese and I'm pretty sure it's the same for hospitals.
There is (or was) a Chaplain general for prisons but he does not have Bishop status. There is also a 'Bishop for prisons' who takes an interest in prison chaplaincy and represents the views of prison chaplaincy as appropriate but does not licence chaplains.
I believe that the Dean of the Chapels Royal licenses the clergy of the royal peculiars. However since the Dean is the Bishop of London and most of the royal peculiars are in his diocese there isn't really a problem.
The extent to which say the Bishop of Oxford has a 'veto' over the Dean of Windsor Castle Chapel, I could not say. I would expect it would be usual for him to be given PTO by +Oxford or +Reading.
(There is also the ancient right of Oxford and Cambridge college fellows to be ordained, but in practice any that are would have diocesan license from +Oxford.)
There are not really holes in the geographical system in England, much as FiF like to claim there are, and as there were prior to say 1830.
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Dintin
Apprentice
# 14165
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Posted
quote:
There is nothing new in the Principal of an Oxford college or hall asking for money to ensure financial independence in the future. That is not confined to Wycliffe Hall.
But are most of them asking for money so that they can be free of the constraints of the university? It seems from what Magistra quoted that Turnbull would like Wycliffe to be free from having to do what the Church of England ( and the university) want them to do.
Mind you, he doesn't seem to have been constrained by lack of money so far. They seem to have a heap of dosh to spend on lawyers....
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Magistra
Apprentice
# 13066
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Posted
Read in light of Turnbull's comments at the Reform conference about the 2 + 4 theological colleges; his purge of Fulcrum-affiliated staff members; his GAFCON involvement and recent performance at NEAC, is it so fanciful to read his appeal for financial independence as part of the attempt to set up Wycliffe as the flagship seminary for the breakaway (E)vangelicals? It is, after all, embedded in a call to arms to defend historic Evangelicalism from degenerate forces in the Church. Given the context, I don't think I'm reading too much into this.
Posts: 37 | From: Oxford | Registered: Oct 2007
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magistra:
Is it so fanciful to read his appeal for financial independence as part of the attempt to set up Wycliffe as the flagship seminary for the breakaway (E)vangelicals?
I am not saying it is fanciful, I am just saying that it is not the only explanation, nor is it a new explanation.
I am a graduate of an ordinary Oxford college and some of the language used in the letters I get asking for money each year is similar. So part of the appeal is a widespread attempt by the university and the colleges to increase the size of their financial resources independent of government. They make a loss on each UK / EU undergraduate student. The letter from Wycliffe / Turnbull reflects the Hall's position and Turnbull's own style but is not unique.
It also reflects attempts made by previous generations of evangelicals to preserve their future. I would guess the historic trustees of Ridley Hall Cambridge and Wycliffe were doing the same thing, as were Simeon's patronage trust etc. So rather than being a separatist movement it actually enabled evangelicals to stay within the CofE for another century or more.
And anglo-catholics have done similar things in the past, such as raising money for the Additional Curates Society. I would not be surprised if places like Pusey Hall didn't also raise funds from old friends.
I'm no great fan of Turnbull's management style, or cons. evo. separatism, but I don't think there's anything new in the letter from what I have seen.
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Dintin
Apprentice
# 14165
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Posted
quote:
if we do not commit ourselves to sending out ministers who know the gospel, can preach it, commend it and live it, then the Church of England could once again [?!] lapse into being a hindrance to the gospel rather than a means
It's this bit in Magistra's quote that hit me! Somebody who thinks that its OK to dismiss people unlawfully, make threats and bully people (a la NEAC) and that this is all part of 'knowing, preaching, commending and living the gospel' didn't ought to be training anybody, let alone future ministers.
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J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magistra:
Read in light of Turnbull's comments at the Reform conference about the 2 + 4 theological colleges; his purge of Fulcrum-affiliated staff members; his GAFCON involvement and recent performance at NEAC, is it so fanciful to read his appeal for financial independence as part of the attempt to set up Wycliffe as the flagship seminary for the breakaway (E)vangelicals? It is, after all, embedded in a call to arms to defend historic Evangelicalism from degenerate forces in the Church. Given the context, I don't think I'm reading too much into this.
That assumes that you view Turnbull's form of conservative evangelicalism as being both consistent with historical evangelicalism in the C of E (and more widely) and that the otherside is degenerate. Having read Turnbull's book on Anglicanism and evangelicalism (and having watched this thread with interest over the past 12 or so months) I'm not sure that distinction is so easily made. Unless of course one is willing to discard large portions of the Old and New Testaments.
Turnbull's isn't the only evangelicalism at work in the C of E. Neither is he, I suspect, the messiah who will save the C of E. Given his recent behaviour (reported here and elsewhere) I suspect that he is in danger of destroying that which he is trying to build up.
I have a lot of sympathy with the sentiment expressed in Dintin's most recent post (above):
quote:
Originally posted by Dintin:
quote:
if we do not commit ourselves to sending out ministers who know the gospel, can preach it, commend it and live it, then the Church of England could once again [?!] lapse into being a hindrance to the gospel rather than a means
It's this bit in Magistra's quote that hit me! Somebody who thinks that its OK to dismiss people unlawfully, make threats and bully people (a la NEAC) and that this is all part of 'knowing, preaching, commending and living the gospel' didn't ought to be training anybody, let alone future ministers.
Then again, I'm only a liberal-Catholic (and therefore probably a degenerate in some peoples' eyes) so what is my opinion woth? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[Fixed code. ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif) ]
[ 03. December 2008, 08:40: Message edited by: J Whitgift ]
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On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dintin:
quote:
if we do not commit ourselves to sending out ministers who know the gospel, can preach it, commend it and live it, then the Church of England could once again [?!] lapse into being a hindrance to the gospel rather than a means
It's this bit in Magistra's quote that hit me! Somebody who thinks that its OK to dismiss people unlawfully, make threats and bully people (a la NEAC) and that this is all part of 'knowing, preaching, commending and living the gospel' didn't ought to be training anybody, let alone future ministers.
That bit sounds like the Restorationist we belonged to; they often "presched" that the CofE was not Christian and we should all leave it if we belonged there.
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London
Flickr fotos
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
Turnbull's isn't the only evangelicalism at work in the C of E. Neither is he, I suspect, the messiah who will save the C of E. Given his recent behaviour (reported here and elsewhere) I suspect that he is in danger of destroying that which he is trying to build up.
Wise words.
There are quite a lot of people who agree with Richard on many things. I suspect there are very very few who agree with him on (for example) how he led NEAC, or how he handled change at Wycliffe.
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dintin:
quote:
if we do not commit ourselves to sending out ministers who know the gospel, can preach it, commend it and live it, then the Church of England could once again [?!] lapse into being a hindrance to the gospel rather than a means
It's this bit in Magistra's quote that hit me! Somebody who thinks that its OK to dismiss people unlawfully, make threats and bully people (a la NEAC) and that this is all part of 'knowing, preaching, commending and living the gospel' didn't ought to be training anybody, let alone future ministers.
Well, I think a lot of people of Turnbull's stamp have this kind of blind spot. For them, 'living the gospel' seems to be largely about what you do with your twiddly bits and not about how you use power.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Dintin
Apprentice
# 14165
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Posted
From Rev per Minute
quote:
I was rather surprised, after all the fuss over Wycliffe, to see that Richard Turnbull was chairing such a meeting - and rather surprised, too, at the tone he apparently took. Over at Thinking Anglicans there is discussion of the day's events - the following account of Dr Turnbull's management of the meeting is telling:
quote:
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"If you don’t want a vote, fine", said Turnbull from the chair. "In that case the Church of England Evangelical Council will take its own decision." From the audience: "Then why consult us?" Turnbull: "I would appreciate if you did not interrupt me." Someone else in the audience: "Depends what you say."
[Wim Houten - Reporter from the Dutch Evangelical Press]
I heard over the weekend on the grapevine that at the next CEEC exec. meeting that Turnbull will be asked to resign. Does anyone know when these meetings are? If this is true there will probably be some announcement - no doubt very guarded! Does anyone else have any info on this?
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The Centurion
Apprentice
# 12827
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Posted
Yes he has resigned. There is announcement on the CEEC website along with an apology for the proceedings at the last NEAC.
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Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271
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Posted
The CEEC website does. Summary: they have endorsed the Jerusalem Declaration, apologised for (some of) the bad procedure at NEAC 08, and Richard Turnbull has resigned.
As you expected it is guarded but it promises a statement from Wallace Benn 'shortly'.
[Cross-posted]
[ 08. December 2008, 12:48: Message edited by: Sean D ]
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postpostevangelical
http://www.stmellitus.org/
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
Did he jump or was he pushed into spending more time with his family?
About time Wallace Benn resigned too, and was replaced by a diocesan bishop, in accordance with the CEEC constitution.
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
Can anyone shed any light on this:
Look at Horace's post ?
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
No, I was going to ask the same question. Michael Lawson's statement that "Richard did not resign [because of the NEAC5 meeting]" is an interesting counterpoint to Dintin's post above. Apparently Richard Turnbull resigned "under pressure" from Wycliffe because of "serious issues that needed to be addressed... some of which have been addressed and some of which still need to be addressed." Notwithstanding these serious issues to be addressed, it appears from the Church Times report that Richard Turnbull is now on a three-month sabbatical.
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Theology apart, Richard Turnbull just looks to have gotten completely out of his depth.
[No doubt a few loyal stalwarts will be muttering "it's all Elaine's fault". BTW is that finally settled? I haven't seen anything.]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Dintin
Apprentice
# 14165
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Posted
quote:
[No doubt a few loyal stalwarts will be muttering "it's all Elaine's fault". BTW is that finally settled? I haven't seen anything.]
It's on the Fulcrum website. web page fulcrum-anglican
No-one seems to know what is in the report except the Bishops, but they tell me the college is quite free to publish it if they want to (Charles Read - is this true?) If it was good it would be good publicity.
Elaine Storkey's case seems to be finally settled, but I thought the last line of this statement was interesting. Perhaps it is not the last we have heard of grievances......
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
Reports from inspectors are sent to the House of Bishops (these are bishops' inspectors, nit MinDiv ones, though MinDiv administers the system).
The reports are never published by the HofB, but of course the institution can use the good bits in publicity! As an example see here
[This ia an old link - the last inspection of Cranmer Hall was Jan 2005. The report was glowing, by the way - in case you think the report on the college website is being selective!]
The College Council will see the report, as will staff and possibly senior students - so leaks are not easy to prevent....
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
I am sorry - I really did not mean to type 'nit MinDiv'. This is not a Freudian slip, nor was the phrase dictated to me by Pete 173. This weekend I was discussing 'Allo, 'Allo with some students (see what avant garde theology we do in East Anglia!)and I guess Officer Crabtree popped into my head.
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
I guess Officer Crabtree popped into my head.
And you want us to believe that's not Freudian?
Good moaning! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
I am sorry - I really did not mean to type 'nit MinDiv'. This is not a Freudian slip, nor was the phrase dictated to me by Pete 173. This weekend I was discussing 'Allo, 'Allo with some students (see what avant garde theology we do in East Anglia!)and I guess Officer Crabtree popped into my head.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Charles, all really serious threads like this need a bloody good laugh from time to time. And you just did it. [I think those students were very fortunate!]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
On Monday at General Synod, the Bishop of Norwich, Chair of the Ministry Council, announced that henceforth all Inspectiion reports will be published on the CofE website after the House of Bishops has considered / seen them -starting with the two most recent inspections which were of St Stephen's House Oxford and ...
Wycliffe Hall.
Watch this space.
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Charles Read
The naughty nonconformist child in me (coupled with putting two and two together) prompts the thought that you may, just may, have a little advance knowledge here.
But of course I might say that, you couldn't possible comment ...
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
No - I haven't been abkle to get to Synod this week to sit in the gallery, but I listened to the question time from Synod on the CofE website and that's where Bishop graham announced it, so it is public knowledge.
I do not know what the report might contain and as I am just about the drink a cup of coffee wonderfully provided by Rosie my colleague I have no tea leaves to read - but all will be revealed when they put the report on the web.
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
Well, this thread may well be lively again.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
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Cantiones Sacrae
Shipmate
# 12774
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
Well, this thread may well be lively again.
<BUMP>
Seems very quiet at the moment ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
Maybe the House of Bishops are slow readers...
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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Peter Owen
Shipmate
# 134
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Posted
What you've all been waiting for:
Inspection Reports for Wycliffe Hall [and St Stephen's House].
[ 17. March 2009, 11:42: Message edited by: Peter Owen ]
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Πετρος
Posts: 266 | From: overlooking Liverpool Bay | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Not much blood on the carpet.
The report from Staggers was much more interesting.
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geroff
Shipmate
# 3882
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Posted
But it does seem a bit worrying that the inspectors have no confidence in the teaching of practical and pastoral theology - surely one of the more important aspects of training to work in parish ministry. Unless of course you are training for something else entirely.
Don't forget this report is from the Ministry Division of the CofE who are responsible for deciding what is taught and how resources are deployed.
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"The first principle in science is to invent something nice to look at and then decide what it can do." Rowland Emett 1906-1990
Posts: 1172 | From: Montgomeryshire, Wales | Registered: Jan 2003
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Stranger in a strange land
Shipmate
# 11922
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Posted
Actually, what I was taught in practical and pastoral theology - which was strongly of the Dr Graham (one of the inspectors) school - has been of very little use in real life so far. It may in the long term prove to be a useful skill, but I find reflective practice a luxury when I'm so ill prepared for the day to day realities of ministry.
I'd have very happily had a lot less experiential theology and a lot more practical input on how to do things.
Posts: 608 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Fool on Hill
Shipmate
# 12183
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Posted
Actually there is some excellent material in the field of practical/pastoral theology from an evangelical perspective, in theological reflection and in theologically informed action - and this is definitely true in some areas which are the subject of direct criticism.
My own experience is that good grounding in theological reflection has fostered theologically informed action, rather than a purely pragmatic response; and that each experience of my early years in ministry became hugely more valuable in deepening my theological understanding of the world - not what I was taught, so much as how I was encouraged to learn.
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God appointed a worm that attacked the bush so that it withered.
Posts: 171 | From: Berkshire | Registered: Dec 2006
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3M Matt
Shipmate
# 1675
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Posted
My gosh..does someone have to drive a stake through the heart of this thread on an altar under a full moon or something?
Why will this thread not die?!! It's nearly 2 years old!
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3M Matt.
Posts: 1227 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 3M Matt:
My gosh..does someone have to drive a stake through the heart of this thread on an altar under a full moon or something?
Why will this thread not die?!! It's nearly 2 years old!
Because people keep posting on it.
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i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Codepoet
Best Bear On Board
# 5964
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Posted
I was surprised to see Wycliff criticised for the lack of biblical material in corperate worship!
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It's more important to be kind than to be right.
Posts: 1156 | From: Southampton | Registered: May 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I wasn't. It has become a characteristic of modern evangelical Anglicanism.
It is the opposite to 40 years ago when evangelicals followed the BCP Morning and Evening Prayer so had great chunks of scripture whilst anglo-catholics did BCP Holy Communion with little scripture.
Now the former have many more worship songs while the latter follow the RCL's 3 readings plus a psalm.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 3M Matt:
My gosh..does someone have to drive a stake through the heart of this thread on an altar under a full moon or something?
Why will this thread not die?!! It's nearly 2 years old!
You don't have to click on it. Some people are interested in the ongoing developments.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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