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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Wycliffe Hall in trouble
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
HAve these newspaper articles come about as a result of this thread.....?? THe indy article states the clip was 9 months old - so is it only through our discussio and resurrection of it that its come to the attention of the newsy peeps?
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Its found its way onto a number of places on the web, including Thinking Anglican's and Harry's Place, so that isn't a given.
Lep - I think the Indy were comparatively slow off the starting blocks with the original Wycliffe story so this gives them an opportunity to spin it as something new.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Pokrov
Shipmate
# 11515
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
HAve these newspaper articles come about as a result of this thread.....?? THe indy article states the clip was 9 months old - so is it only through our discussio and resurrection of it that its come to the attention of the newsy peeps?
I wonder Emma....
The clip was found by Jody, who contributes to the Fulcrum and that was where I first found it. I, then, posted it here.
Somehow Thinking Anglicans got hold of it (?via Fulcrum or here) and I think Stephen Bates got it from there. I don't know what the Independant connection is with the Guardian, but the story is definately 'spreading'.
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Most Holy Theotokos pray for us!
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The Indy article did say: quote:
One blogger on a liberal Christian website jokily suggested that Dr Turnbull was himself a secret liberal, who has infiltrated the evangelical movement to discredit it from within. Another pleaded with fellow Christians: "Pray your socks off for Dr Turnbull and Wycliffe Hall."
which made me think of the Ship. However I don't recognise either remark (although that could just be my bad memory, of course).
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
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Petaflop
Shipmate
# 9804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
The Indy article did say: quote:
One blogger on a liberal Christian website jokily suggested that Dr Turnbull was himself a secret liberal, who has infiltrated the evangelical movement to discredit it from within. Another pleaded with fellow Christians: "Pray your socks off for Dr Turnbull and Wycliffe Hall."
which made me think of the Ship. However I don't recognise either remark (although that could just be my bad memory, of course).
Google suggets this quote is from a site called wannabepriest . So no, it doesn't look like they mean the ship.
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Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438
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Posted
Actually 5% is an awfully high estimate of the number of people who are currenlty regenerate. The number who semi-regularly attend a church where something resembling the true gospl is preached - that is, those who could be expected to have heard the gospel, if only over time, in small bits mixed with error, would be well below 5%, if the UK is anything like Australia. Then factor in that probably a minority of those would be regenerate, as we can see clearly by the fact that so many fall away, or later embrace heresy. I imagine the 7000 who haven't bowed the knee to Baal, scaled for national population, would be a good working hypothesis. But that is not to be pessimistic - God kept the 7000 in Elijah's day, and he will no doubt keep His faithful remnant in our day as well.
[ 25. May 2007, 12:43: Message edited by: Zwingli ]
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sanityman
Shipmate
# 11598
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
Actually 5% is an awfully high estimate of the number of people who are currenlty regenerate. The number who semi-regularly attend a church where something resembling the true gospl is preached - that is, those who could be expected to have heard the gospel, if only over time, in small bits mixed with error, would be well below 5%, if the UK is anything like Australia. Then factor in that probably a minority of those would be regenerate, as we can see clearly by the fact that so many fall away, or later embrace heresy. I imagine the 7000 who haven't bowed the knee to Baal, scaled for national population, would be a good working hypothesis. But that is not to be pessimistic - God kept the 7000 in Elijah's day, and he will no doubt keep His faithful remnant in our day as well.
"There's a narrowness in God's mercy,
That excludes the C of E.
Rest assured you're going Hell-wards,
If you don't agree with me."
Yep. Much better that way. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
- Chris.
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Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only the wind will listen - TS Eliot
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Zwingli: quote:
The number who semi-regularly attend a church where something resembling the true gospl is preached - that is, those who could be expected to have heard the gospel, if only over time, in small bits mixed with error, would be well below 5%, if the UK is anything like Australia.
The "True" Gospel according to our Zwingli. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I presume the heretics include all RCs, Orthodox, and anyone who doesn't vote a straight Reform ticket on their theological ballot.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Good to see that we have Zwingli to help us keep things in perspective. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
I imagine the 7000 who haven't bowed the knee to Baal, scaled for national population, would be a good working hypothesis.
And once we've done that, do we need to go and find 450/p x 60,000,000 people we can put to the sword (where p is the population of Israel at the time of Elijah)?
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I cannot help thinking that it does paint God's intervention in the Incarnation and Atonement of Our Lord as a rather collossal failure if so few actually benefit from it. Or to be more accurate, Dr Turnbull's version makes it a collossal failure. Zwingli's makes it a complete and utter cock-up.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Ah, but on that reading the incarnation and the atonement wasn't for them. It was for a select handful of stormtroopers of smugness.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
The supreme advantage of remnant theology is that you can say to people you don't like, "God doesn't love you and Jesus didn't die for you."
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Ah, but on that reading the incarnation and the atonement wasn't for them. It was for a select handful of stormtroopers of smugness.
And there was me thinking that when Peter wrote that God didn't want anyone to perish, he was right. Silly me.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
The supreme advantage of remnant theology is that you can say to people you don't like, "God doesn't love you and Jesus didn't die for you."
No no no - you're missing the point. The advantage of remnant theology is that you can say to people who disagree with you, "God's on my side, ner ner ner."
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
That's the trouble with you liberals. Always taking the Bible literally. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[X-posted with Dyfrig.]
[ 25. May 2007, 13:21: Message edited by: Callan ]
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Ah, but on that reading the incarnation and the atonement wasn't for them. It was for a select handful of stormtroopers of smugness.
Hoi! Some of us who feel we cannot get out of believing that not all will be saved are Arminians (or Lutherans at the very least)!
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postpostevangelical
http://www.stmellitus.org/
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Oh, I'm not certain (although I hope) that all will be saved. I just think that it is slightly presumptuous for fallen, sinful human beings to start identifying the exact demographic.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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badman
Shipmate
# 9634
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Collins:
quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
HAve these newspaper articles come about as a result of this thread.....?? THe indy article states the clip was 9 months old - so is it only through our discussio and resurrection of it that its come to the attention of the newsy peeps?
I wonder Emma....
The clip was found by Jody, who contributes to the Fulcrum and that was where I first found it. I, then, posted it here.
Somehow Thinking Anglicans got hold of it (?via Fulcrum or here) and I think Stephen Bates got it from there. I don't know what the Independant connection is with the Guardian, but the story is definately 'spreading'.
Stephen Bates referred to Thinking Anglicans in his Guardian piece. Simon Sarmiento on Thinking Anglicans has acknowledged Jody as his source.
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
The Indy article did say: quote:
One blogger on a liberal Christian website jokily suggested that Dr Turnbull was himself a secret liberal, who has infiltrated the evangelical movement to discredit it from within. Another pleaded with fellow Christians: "Pray your socks off for Dr Turnbull and Wycliffe Hall."
which made me think of the Ship. However I don't recognise either remark (although that could just be my bad memory, of course).
The "secret liberal" joke is also from Thinking Anglicans, where one poster said
quote:
guys. guys, it's another nasty liberal plot, concocted by Giles Fraser and Stephen Bates: Years ago, in a secret ceremony held in the staff canteen at the Guardian, Turnbull agreed to act as a 'sleeper' within the ConsEv movement, to be wheeled out as instant embarrassment as soon as the liberal ascendancy was threatened. By re-establishing the connection between 'evangelical' and 'nasty party' he denies the evangelical faith the rehabilitation it has so long been seeking in the public mind.
Posted by: mynsterpreost (=David Rowett) on Wednesday, 23 May 2007 at 6:33pm BST
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
noooo noooo - you're giving me more interesting sites to read ... I'll never be off my computer with *more* websites, and weblogs and and and!
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Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Oh, I'm not certain (although I hope) that all will be saved. I just think that it is slightly presumptuous for fallen, sinful human beings to start identifying the exact demographic.
Which, of course, I didn't do. I said what I thought was likely. I can't forget Jesus' words, that narrow is the way that leads to life, and few find it. And from my reading, this was in the context of saying even of the crowds which were following him, not all would be saved, if fact possibly few would be. And the crowds, though no doubt large, would likely have been a small proportion of the overall population. This isn't a thought which makes me happy (though thank you all for assuming otherwise) and I am well aware that I could be, and hopefully will be, wrong, but from my logic, experience and reading of Scripture it seems the most likely outcome. I pray that I am wrong, however.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sanityman:
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
Actually 5% is an awfully high estimate of the number of people who are currenlty regenerate. The number who semi-regularly attend a church where something resembling the true gospl is preached - that is, those who could be expected to have heard the gospel, if only over time, in small bits mixed with error, would be well below 5%, if the UK is anything like Australia. Then factor in that probably a minority of those would be regenerate, as we can see clearly by the fact that so many fall away, or later embrace heresy. I imagine the 7000 who haven't bowed the knee to Baal, scaled for national population, would be a good working hypothesis. But that is not to be pessimistic - God kept the 7000 in Elijah's day, and he will no doubt keep His faithful remnant in our day as well.
"There's a narrowness in God's mercy,
That excludes the C of E.
Rest assured you're going Hell-wards,
If you don't agree with me."
Yep. Much better that way.
- Chris.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) sanityman
It must be since the advent of those awful liberal baptism liturgies. At one time the majority of the population would have been baptised according to the BCP rite, and would have been declared to be 'regenerate and grafted into the body of Christ's Church.' But then I suppose Cranmer was a woolly liberal according to Zwingli (both of them).
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
IIRC, the original Zwingli was a bit of a woolly liberal as he argued that the death of a child was a sign of its election (an odd doctrine but probably quite humane on some level given the rate of infant mortality in sixteenth century Europe) and hypothesised that Seneca and Socrates were among the elect. The dates are all wrong but I generally think of him as being the bastard child of Calvin and Erasmus.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Oh, I'm not certain (although I hope) that all will be saved. I just think that it is slightly presumptuous for fallen, sinful human beings to start identifying the exact demographic.
I think you guys are being way too hard on Zwingli (and I'm not just saying that because I did my long essay on his view of the Eucharist ... plus I must say: his grasp of Latin is not what it used to be ).
I find Matthew 7 one of the most challenging bits of the whole bible. After warning us not to be quick to judge each other (i.e. in our current debate - no one knows who is saved, only God does) Jesus goes on to give warning after warning that not everyone who says they follow him really are doing so.
Whilst it is not up to me to say who is in and who is out, surely following the words of Jesus must mean warning others not to make this very mistake?
[ 25. May 2007, 16:49: Message edited by: Johnny S ]
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
Yes, heard a sermon by one of my fellow students on 2 Peter 2 recently. It's a sad and difficult passage, but that doesn't make it less true.
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny S:
I find Matthew 7 one of the most challenging bits of the whole bible. After warning us not to be quick to judge each other (i.e. in our current debate - no one knows who is saved, only God does) Jesus goes on to give warning after warning that not everyone who says they follow him really are doing so.
Whilst it is not up to me to say who is in and who is out, surely following the words of Jesus must mean warning others not to make this very mistake?
I rarely venture into the awesome realms of Kerygmania, and this thread looks as if it's heading that way. However, if Johnny S is alluding to Matt 7.21 'Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord...' , and indeed chapter 25 (sheep and goats), it surely highlights the arrogance of those religious people who suggest that explicit commitment to Christ is the only way to be saved.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Edward Green
Review Editor
# 46
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
Yes, heard a sermon by one of my fellow students on 2 Peter 2 recently. It's a sad and difficult passage, but that doesn't make it less true.
Wasn't Peter writing about the Paulines?
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blog//twitter//
linkedin
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Edward::Green:
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
Yes, heard a sermon by one of my fellow students on 2 Peter 2 recently. It's a sad and difficult passage, but that doesn't make it less true.
Wasn't Peter writing about the Paulines?
I didn't think anyone considered that it was written by Peter.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
It's generally considered good manners to call the author "Peter", at least.
And yes, a good number of people do think it was the same Peter as knew Jesus.
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Audrey Ely
Shipmate
# 12665
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Posted
(Hello, I'm new here)
I think that the colleges training ordinands are rather reflecting the state of the Anglican Communion, sadly those on the extreme liberal wing and those on the extreme conservative evangelical wing, and I guess those on any extreme wing...don't listen. I've just put something to this effect on my own blog (which I'd be pleased if you visit ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Thank you.
Posts: 1432 | From: Cambridgeshire, England | Registered: May 2007
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
How did we get from this ...
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny S:
I find Matthew 7 one of the most challenging bits of the whole bible. After warning us not to be quick to judge each other (i.e. in our current debate - no one knows who is saved, only God does) Jesus goes on to give warning after warning that not everyone who says they follow him really are doing so.
Whilst it is not up to me to say who is in and who is out, surely following the words of Jesus must mean warning others not to make this very mistake?
to this ...
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I rarely venture into the awesome realms of Kerygmania, and this thread looks as if it's heading that way. However, if Johnny S is alluding to Matt 7.21 'Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord...' , and indeed chapter 25 (sheep and goats), it surely highlights the arrogance of those religious people who suggest that explicit commitment to Christ is the only way to be saved.
?
I'm not sure that Matthew 25 means what you are saying anyway, but Matt 7.21 certainly doesn't. 'Not everyone who claims to be a Christian will be saved' is not logically equivalent to 'explicit commitment to Christ is not necessary to be saved.'
You might want to go to Matthew 25 to argue your point but you won't find it on the existing thread.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
noooo noooo - you're giving me more interesting sites to read ... I'll never be off my computer with *more* websites, and weblogs and and and!
I have to confess that the few times I've read the "Thinking Anglicans" blog its made me sympathise with those ex-Shipmates who no longer post here because they goudn us too nasty. Like some of the American Anglican blogs (the ones who the Americans say are liberal and I find right-wing) "Thinking Anglicans" has too much cruel vindictivness on it for me to enjoy reading it. Apparently "thinking" means believing that people like me are brain-dead idiots. Maybe I just read it on a bad day.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Audrey Ely
Shipmate
# 12665
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Posted
I think the danger can be that some (and I say some) liberals can actually be very intolerant, and at times quite unpleasant. I think 'Thinking Anglicans' is at times very informed, but some of the comments are not very nice.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
The dates are all wrong but I generally think of him as being the bastard child of Calvin and Erasmus.
Date-wise its more like Calvin is the bastard child of Zwingli and the Counter-Reformation.
And there really were people who when they said that Anglicanism was the Middle Way, meant the middle way between Zwinglism and Calvinism. (There were quite a lot more who meant the middle way between Luther and Calvin)
There's something to be said for a Christian minister who died in battle. I'm not sure what it is though, but it miost be something.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
There's something to be said for a Christian minister who died in battle
Are you suggesting that more should do so? (I have a little list, They will never be missed!)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And there really were people who when they said that Anglicanism was the Middle Way, meant the middle way between Zwinglism and Calvinism. (There were quite a lot more who meant the middle way between Luther and Calvin)
I thought Cranmer meant it between Zwingli and Luther...
quote:
There's something to be said for a Christian minister who died in battle. I'm not sure what it is though, but it miost be something.
Especially when they were a pacifist leading an army (like Zwingli was...)
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Well that leaves you, at least as far as the Eucharist is concerned, somewhere around Calvin.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
One of the things I found amusing about this speech was this
quote:
I am actually the only principal who has gone to that job from parish ministry. And I simply want to say to you that I think that makes a difference
. As of course being the only principal who has never been involved in theological education before.
What this says to me is he is really in touch with that old fashioned British belief in the gifted amateur. He doesn't want to be confused by having any knowledge of how a theological college ticks before he starts leading one.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
But is it true that Turnbull is the only Principal to come out of parish ministry? A quick glance at Crockford shows me that Robin Ward also came out of parish ministry (Sevenoaks) with a hospital chaplaincy under his belt to boot. Martin Seeley came to Westcott from ten years at St John with St Luke on the Isle of Dogs and has considerable experience in the selection and training of clergy also. How many others have been overlooked?
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
But is it true that Turnbull is the only Principal to come out of parish ministry? A quick glance at Crockford shows me that Robin Ward also came out of parish ministry (Sevenoaks) with a hospital chaplaincy under his belt to boot. Martin Seeley came to Westcott from ten years at St John with St Luke on the Isle of Dogs and has considerable experience in the selection and training of clergy also. How many others have been overlooked?
Robin Ward went to St Stephens in 2006, as did Seeley to Westcott. So, as RT's talk was to LAST year's Reform Conference, it may be that when he said those words, it was before these two men had started. I am sure someone can check the relative dates. Of course, the other answer is that St Stephens and Westcott aren't in the "2+4" and so don't count as far as RT is concerned.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Audry Ely:
I think the danger can be that some (and I say some) liberals can actually be very intolerant, and at times quite unpleasant. I think 'Thinking Anglicans' is at times very informed, but some of the comments are not very nice.
I agree. I look to TA to provide me with a good summary of some of the latest breaking stories (Wycliffe Hall, Akinola, Lambeth, CANA etc). Often TA has links to blogs and newsreports that I would never have known about otherwise. But far too many of the comments are pointlessly offensive or argumentative. I have been sadly disappointed at the almost complete lack of charity shown by some people - especially towards ++Rowan (who seems to be the Antichrist as far as some TA contributor's are concerned).
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Robin Ward went to St Stephens in 2006, as did Seeley to Westcott. So, as RT's talk was to LAST year's Reform Conference, it may be that when he said those words, it was before these two men had started. I am sure someone can check the relative dates. Of course, the other answer is that St Stephens and Westcott aren't in the "2+4" and so don't count as far as RT is concerned.
As did Kovoor to Trinity, who also has parish experience.
Notice a trend?
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
As did Kovoor to Trinity, who also has parish experience.
Notice a trend?
No, not really I think you will find that virtually all principals of theological colleges have had parish experience since the 1950's. You will also find that with one exception they have been involved in theological education before being appointed principal.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Audry Ely:
I think the danger can be that some (and I say some) liberals can actually be very intolerant, and at times quite unpleasant.
I wish we had another word than "liberal". Politically they often aren't, and theologically they aren't so much liberal in the sense that, say Karl who posts here is, as dogmatially heterodox, not only convinced that the traditional Christian beliefs could not be held by a rational person but determined to slag off anyone who claims to hold them. Also they are, in an Anglican contet, overwhelmingly ritualist and high church. So they hate us evangelicals for at least three reasons, and want to show it whenever they can.
I'm sure American Angicams are;t really like that, but online it seems that at least two out of three are. Very upsetting.
And yes, the slagging off of Roman pisses me off. Using their own rhetoric against them, if you hate the Archbishop of Canterbury so much, why do you want to be in the same church as him? go off and found your won.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And yes, the slagging off of Roman pisses me off.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Was that a deliberate typo Ken? Or just incredibly freudian?
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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BroJames
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# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And there really were people who when they said that Anglicanism was the Middle Way, meant the middle way between Zwinglism and Calvinism. (There were quite a lot more who meant the middle way between Luther and Calvin)
I thought Cranmer meant it between Zwingli and Luther...
I think it is fairly clear that Cranmer's theology is a moderate form of Calvinism. Certainly this is where the BCP and 39 articles suggest he is.
For the Reformers the via media lay on a path between the errors of Rome and those of Anabaptism
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
For the Reformers the via media lay on a path between the errors of Rome and those of Anabaptism
Of course we all know what happens to those who stand in the middle of the road.
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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BroJames
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# 9636
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Posted
Who said anything about standing? ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Historically one could argue that there was a time when the C of E simply drove a bulldozer along the middle of the road - Archbishop Whitgift's response to both Puritans and Catholics was equally uncompromising.
Even today it can sometimes seem as if the C of E thinks it owns the road and has every right to drive along the middle of it if it wants to.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Audrey Ely
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# 12665
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Posted
I see his week's edition of the Roman Catholic (and good) magazine, The Tablet, has an article about the colleges like Wycliffe in Oxford which are being reveiwed about their status. Some of them are Catholic, some Anflican - Wycliffe, St Stepehens House etc. I hope the University has some trenchant remarks to make.
The trouble is though - according to the Table - Oxfgord University is rather dependant on places like Wycliffe to provide staff to teach Theology in the University.
Posts: 1432 | From: Cambridgeshire, England | Registered: May 2007
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
What kind of trenchant remarks?
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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