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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: The worst Bible verse
Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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The whole catholic (=universal) church is the Historical Church TM, and not just that part of it in communion with the Bishop of Rome. As the episcopal orders of the Scottish church are valid and continuous with those of the preReformation church, the Scottish Epsicopalians ARE the Historical Church in Scotland. As the BCP says "the Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England [or Scotland]"
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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Anglican2009--

"Set a watch, O LORD, upon my mouth; keep the door of my lips." (New SOF Expanded Version adds: "and my keyboard.")

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Of course, the argument of historical continuity of episcopal orders isn't very strong as there's no real evidence that the episcopal orders of any church (including the Orthodox who probably have a better claim than most) are continuous. There are a number of gaps in the historic record, or points where the recorded succession is of an almost mythical nature, where we can't know for certain that the line remained intact.

Besides, the Episcopal Church in Scotland is an import from south of the border. In Scotland the effect of the Reformation was to reform the Catholic Church in Scotland into a Presbyterian church. The Piskies descend from various attempts by foreign governments to impose their cultural norms on Scotland.

Now, did someone deny cultural supremacist leanings?

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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Can we put the Angli back in the can? After all, it's surely way past its sell-by date. Don't be foooled by the year. Let's take it back to the shops and get a refund and an apology.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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None of the episcopal lines of succession anywhere can be traced all the way back to Pentecost, but the English and Irish Anglican ones can be traced back to before the Reformation. Back to around 1300 at least. So that means the Anglican churches are the historic churches in those lands. The records are lost to trace back 2000 years.


I hadn't realised it until you said, but it seems that the pre-Reformation episcopal line in Scotland ran out in 1592. In 1600 an Act of Parliament provided for "modified episcopacy", whereby the Scottish King appointed the bishops, but it was not until 1610 that this new set of bishops regained valid orders in the form of consecration from the Anglican bishops in England. So there was a gap there. Then the episcopacy was abolished again in 1638, and the 1610-38 orders died out. And then from 1661 the episcopal orders were restablished again, once again by consecration by the English bishops, before being abolished by William III in 1689.

It is a unique history, and it means that no bishops today - certainly not those of the Church of Rome - represent the pre-Reformation episcopal lines of Scotland that died out in the late 16th century. But in both cases, in 1610 and in 1661, when the episcopal succession was restored it was done so by Royal authority.

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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It is interesting to read how the episcopal lines were restored in 1610:

quote:
In 1610 three ministers were called to London to be consecrated as bishops, as if there had till now been no bishops in Scotland; these on their return consecrated ten others. In 1612 the act of 1592 which established Presbytery was rescinded, and Episcopacy became the legal church system of Scotland.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Church_of_Scotland
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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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And, in 1638 the office of bishop was again abolished in Scotland, ending the compromise established by James VI which had Calvinist doctrine and episcopal government. Of course, English monarchs tried to reimpose episcopal government on the kirk after that, but finally in 1690 Presbyterian government was firmly established by law.

So, in addition to selecting some passages of Scripture over others Anglican2009 also shows selectivity of historical events.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Men are more suited personality-wise to the headship, owing to their created qualities. Research shows an average 4-5 point IQ difference between men and women. Also, the female bell curve is flatter - there are fewer geniuses. Again, the Creator will be aware of this as this is how he created us.

IQ tests were created by MEN, not women, and test the sort of skills that male brains tend to be good at.

If you test creativity, then women are likely to be better than men.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, in 1638 the office of bishop was again abolished in Scotland, ending the compromise established by James VI which had Calvinist doctrine and episcopal government.

Didn't know there were differences between Calvin's teachings and episcopal government. Isn't he the one who said:

quote:
If the bishops so hold their dignity, that they refuse not to submit to Christ, no anathama is too great for those who do not regard such a hierarchy with reverence and the most implicity obedience.


[ 05. September 2009, 10:23: Message edited by: §Andrew ]

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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.

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Cadfael
Shipmate
# 11066

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, in 1638 the office of bishop was again abolished in Scotland, ending the compromise established by James VI which had Calvinist doctrine and episcopal government. Of course, English monarchs tried to reimpose episcopal government on the kirk after that, but finally in 1690 Presbyterian government was firmly established by law.

As a point of order, weren't these English monarchs also (and first) Scottish monarchs, of the House of Stuart? I agree that it gets a bit fuzzy after the 'glorious revolution', but an argument could be made that England was ruled by a Scottish royal house from 1603 to 1714, except for the time of Cromwell.

So, if these impositions came from the monarch in that period, they could equally be described as impositions from the Scottish monarch. And wasn't it loyalty to the Scottish house of Stuart that finally did for the piskie bishops in Scotland (as non-jurors after the GR, and 'Jacobite rebels' thereafter?)

Still I am not an historian, and have republican sympathies to boot, so I may have my royal trivia in disarray.

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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quote:
So, if these impositions came from the monarch in that period, they could equally be described as impositions from the Scottish monarch. And wasn't it loyalty to the Scottish house of Stuart that finally did for the piskie bishops in Scotland (as non-jurors after the GR, and 'Jacobite rebels' thereafter?)
Exactly. Alan Cresswell, I hope you're taking notes. Anyhow, after 15 centuries of having bishops in the catholic (=universal) church, the Scottish Parliament had no business trying to replace episcopacy by presbytery. It was all essentially politics anyway. As King James said "no bishop, no king"!
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If you test creativity, then women are likely to be better than men.

What about testing patience?

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

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Josephine

Orthodox Belle
# 3899

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
IQ tests were created by MEN, not women, and test the sort of skills that male brains tend to be good at.


Which IQ tests are you talking about? I know someone who is involved in designing and validating IQ tests. She's not a man.

quote:
If you test creativity, then women are likely to be better than men.
Before you can test it, you have to define it.

That is, of course, the problem with IQ tests, too. There really isn't any broad agreement about what intelligence is, or even if it exists at all, and if it does exist, whether it can be measured directly or only inferred.

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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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Well, they started with Alfred Binet, Francis Galton, James McKeen Cattell, Wilhelm Stern, Lewis Terman, H. H. Goddard, Arthur Otis, Hans Jürgen Eysenck - all males.

Try Emotional Quotient and 'women come out top.'

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Well, they started with Alfred Binet, Francis Galton, James McKeen Cattell, Wilhelm Stern, Lewis Terman, H. H. Goddard, Arthur Otis, Hans Jürgen Eysenck - all males.

Try Emotional Quotient and 'women come out top.'

Some do, some don't [Disappointed]

EQ tests

[ 05. September 2009, 17:47: Message edited by: amber. ]

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:

Ken, I have read the entire Bible cover to cover. Who is vehemently anti-women or inherently anti-Semitic? While pressing all the leftwing buttons, your accusations are unfounded, and so un-Christian. It is not anti-women to believe in the headship. In fact, most women find the feminists to be boring, and they try to bully other women into following their agenda. The fact that the Jews were cast off by God does not mean Jews cannot be saved - you yourself quoted that there is no Jew or Greek - and so your claim that it is "anti-Semitic" to mention it is quite false. The Third Collect for Good Friday puts the point quite well.

I don't know who that paragraph was addressed to but I didn't write the things it seems to be arguing against, and it doesn't talk about the things I did write. Which you have not and I am reasonably sure cannot refute.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Men are more suited personality-wise to the headship, owing to their created qualities. Research shows an average 4-5 point IQ difference between men and women. Also, the female bell curve is flatter - there are fewer geniuses. Again, the Creator will be aware of this as this is how he created us.

So what?

If that is true then it means that in a series of one-to-one pairings of men and women the man would be the cleverer one about five and a half times out of ten. "Headship" in your sense cannot possibly be about inherent created qualities such as skills, intelligence, or personality, because if it was it wouldn't be neccessary to ban women from leadership - in a fair contest the man would always win.

As it is, in a fair contest women can and do win. Sometimes a woman is in fact "the best man for the job". That is why there are (or were) banning women from certain jobs - because they can do them, not because they can't. If all women were incapable fo doing those jobs they wouldn't have needed the rules. So artificially enforced headship must be about something else than personality, skills, or intelligence.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
If in power, I would merge the Presbyterians and Episcopalians by Act of Parliament, and ensure the KJV and the BCP (possibly the Scottish book of 1637 and not the 1662 one???? Food for thought?) were the sole legal services north of the border.

[Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me]

I suggest that you look into some history and find out what happened last time someone tried that, sunshine.

You could do worse than starting with the Battle of Dunkeld when the Cameronian Covenanters defended burning buildings against the Jacobites, at one point casting the molten lead dripping off the rooves into bullets for their muskets. And work back from there to the civil wars of the 1640s, 50s, and 60s.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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aig
Shipmate
# 429

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Please God - don't tell me this numpty is an Episcopalian (of the Scottish variety).

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That's not how we do it here.......

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Cadfael
Shipmate
# 11066

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quote:
Originally posted by aig:
Please God - don't tell me this numpty is an Episcopalian (of the Scottish variety).

Certainly doesn't sound like one. Most Piskies are (broadly and not uniformly) Aff-Cath types; Anglican2009's comments would be enough to have us spilling our gin-and-tonics in shock...
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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Thank you God, that we are not like him. We respect women and gay people, and we aren't fundamentalist with respect to teachings and doctrines and rituals.

[ 05. September 2009, 21:05: Message edited by: §Andrew ]

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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.

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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
The whole catholic (=universal) church is the Historical Church TM, and not just that part of it in communion with the Bishop of Rome. As the episcopal orders of the Scottish church are valid and continuous with those of the preReformation church, the Scottish Epsicopalians ARE the Historical Church in Scotland. As the BCP says "the Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England [or Scotland]"

Throughout history the teaching of the majority of the catholic churches, defined as those which have preserved the apostolic succession, is that the Anglican communion is not part of the catholic church.

By remaining within the Anglican church you therefore (by your own terms) are in defiance of the teaching of the church (as you define it).

This comes on top of your belief that the Holy Spirit abandoned His church in 1960.

You are a heretick, a schismatick, a liberal, a communist, an anathema maranatha, a naughty person, and you use a nave altar.

ETA: and sweet white communion wine.

[ 05. September 2009, 21:37: Message edited by: Ricardus ]

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Cadfael
Shipmate
# 11066

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quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
Thank you God, that we are not like him. We respect women and gay people, and we aren't fundamentalist with respect to teachings and doctrines and rituals.

How confusing. I thought you no longer had any interest in the rightness of attitudes towards God, doctrines or rituals. I guess it is indeed very easy to misread a person's character. Ach well...
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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I maintain an academic interest. Besides, "humani nil a me alienum puto"...

However, I meant that as a compliment. I'm also against discriminations and fundamentalism!

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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
The Bible is not homophobic and chauvinistic, but does support the traditional family

[Killing me]
[Killing me]
[Killing me]

(sorry ... came late to this party. Bloody day job reinventing God and peddling wet turpitudes [Roll Eyes] )

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Research shows an average 4-5 point IQ difference between men and women.
So how come girls are doing better than boys in GCSEs, A Levels and degrees?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
the Scottish Parliament had no business trying to replace episcopacy by presbytery. It was all essentially politics anyway. As King James said "no bishop, no king"!

True, and the monarch (or, Roman Emperor) had no business imposing episcopalianism either. Just because one system had political support from secular powers before the other doesn't make it the right system. Episcopalianism certainly has no such claim when one of the reasons that it had secular support was that it more naturally supports monarchical government (as you quoted in the James VI bit of sound bite politics). The New Testament church was quite clearly much closer to a Congregational or Presbyterian structure than an Episcopal one.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
the Scottish Parliament had no business trying to replace episcopacy by presbytery. It was all essentially politics anyway. As King James said "no bishop, no king"!

True, and the monarch (or, Roman Emperor) had no business imposing episcopalianism either. Just because one system had political support from secular powers before the other doesn't make it the right system. Episcopalianism certainly has no such claim when one of the reasons that it had secular support was that it more naturally supports monarchical government (as you quoted in the James VI bit of sound bite politics). The New Testament church was quite clearly much closer to a Congregational or Presbyterian structure than an Episcopal one.
Is that the interpretation that accords with the magisterium of the church over 19 centuries? IF not you don't have a point.
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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Well, it accords with the simple reading of the new Testament. No mention of priests in relation to Church leadership (with the exception possibly of Hebrews talking about the priesthood of all believers, and by default therefore the priesthood of church leaders - though whether or not that's different in nature from the priesthood of the laity is a long way from clear). Very little mention of bishops, and where mentioned there's nothing to really indicate that that's 'bishop' used in the same way as Episcopalian churches would use the term - it could very easily be the same as "senior pastor" or "moderator".

That at some point a few centuries after the NT documents were written and accepted as canonical the Church decided to accept a structure that has more in common with Roman civil government than the practice talked about in the NT is a different matter. If we're not to be selective in reading our Bibles and accept it all as equally valid, then we can't really accept the small number of verses that suggest a more Episcopal structure as normative over the much larger number of verses that suggest a more Congregational or Presbyterian structure as normative.

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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No. The Ecumenical Councils of the undivided church forbade the Bishop of Rome from interfering in other provinces of the church. The Old Catholics all refused to accept heretic teachings peddled in Rome claiming the right to subject the whole world to the Pope.

The way to think about it is to look at Russia today. Russia has a valid episopacy - that of the Russian Orthodox Church. There is no need for any other religious organizations to operate in Russia. But the Pope is busy trying to set up a RIVAL organization, for the express purpose of undermining the Russian church and setting up an organization loyal to Rome. They did that in England too.

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
quote:
Research shows an average 4-5 point IQ difference between men and women.
So how come girls are doing better than boys in GCSEs, A Levels and degrees?
Cause IQ tests are basted on short questions whereas A'levels and degrees require discursive writing.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
The Bible is not homophobic and chauvinistic, but does support the traditional family

[Killing me]
[Killing me]
[Killing me]

(sorry ... came late to this party. Bloody day job reinventing God and peddling wet turpitudes [Roll Eyes] )

Solomon had 500 wives and 500 concubines

Abraham said his wife was his sister and slept with his maid

Jacob had 2 wives and 2 concubines

Lot offered his daughter to late night revellers

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Figbash

The Doubtful Guest
# 9048

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:

Abraham said his wife was his sister

And pandered her out to another man, let's not forget.
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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Ah, that traditional biblical family. [Axe murder]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Figbash

The Doubtful Guest
# 9048

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Cause IQ tests are basted on short questions whereas A'levels and degrees require discursive writing.

IQ tests do nothing other than measure how good you are at answering IQ tests. I have multiple degrees, I am generally considered quite bright. The one time I took an IQ test and sent it off I got a letter back from the testers saying something must have gone wrong because my IQ was so low that I shouldn't have been able to read the questions. I am not making this up.

[ 06. September 2009, 15:44: Message edited by: Figbash ]

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Chesterbelloc

Tremendous trifler
# 3128

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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
sweet white communion wine

Reminds me of a hymn ...

quote:
Sweet white communion wine -
How sticky and how twee! -
I'm sure God would decline
To mix Himself in thee.
Cheap "Liebfraumilch" offends His Ma,
And as for boozed-up Hock - no ta!
Sweet white communion wine (x2)



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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."

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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
The Old Catholics all refused to accept heretic teachings peddled in Rome claiming the right to subject the whole world to the Pope.

Ah. So now you think the Holy Spirit abandoned His church at the First Vatican Council.

What gives you the confidence that He was guiding the church before that?

Incidentally, the Old Catholics have women priests. You're so liberal you make Karl Marx look right-wing.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:

Abraham said his wife was his sister

And pandered her out to another man, let's not forget.
Yes and she actually was his half sister!

Happy biblical families indeed.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Cause IQ tests are basted on short questions whereas A'levels and degrees require discursive writing.

IQ tests do nothing other than measure how good you are at answering IQ tests. I have multiple degrees, I am generally considered quite bright. The one time I took an IQ test and sent it off I got a letter back from the testers saying something must have gone wrong because my IQ was so low that I shouldn't have been able to read the questions. I am not making this up.
Agree - my IQ score is very high because I am good at doing IQ tests. However, I cannot change a tap washer or assemble a kit from IKEA.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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What we need is a Josiah-like king who suddenly discovers the KJV and the BCP and decided to restore the Christian faith. However Prince Charles does not have the makings of a Josiah - he has already indicated that he will disregard the requirement to defend the Christian Faith.
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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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The Bible on immigration and multi-culturalism:

quote:
Ezra10:2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

3Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.


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Figbash

The Doubtful Guest
# 9048

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
What we need is a Josiah-like king

You mean one who dies, defeated, at the hands of the enemies of his faith, and leaves behind him a kingdom doomed to destruction?
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Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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Anglican 2009

Also read Jonah and Ruth which are thought to have been written by those who disagreed.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208

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quote:
What we need is a Josiah-like king who suddenly discovers the KJV and the BCP and decided to restore the Christian faith. However Prince Charles does not have the makings of a Josiah - he has already indicated that he will disregard the requirement to defend the Christian Faith.
What is a powerless figurehead going to do either way?

Zach

[ 06. September 2009, 20:53: Message edited by: Zach82 ]

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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St. Stephen the Stoned
Shipmate
# 9841

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
The Bible on immigration and multi-culturalism:

quote:
Ezra10:2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

3Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.


But weren’t the Jews themselves immigrants into the country from which the men took their wives? It might have been the land to which they were returning from exile, but other peoples were living there and had to be disposed of before the Promised Land was to become reality.

And how does this apply to the UK in the 21st century? This is a nation of immigrants. What is your ancestry, Anglican2009? Celtic? Anglo-Saxon? Norman? (I’m assuming you would describe yourself as White European.) How far back can you trace it? Have you any mixed blood? Can you prove it?

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Do you want to see Jesus or don't yer? Well shurrup then!

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Cause IQ tests are basted on short questions whereas A'levels and degrees require discursive writing.

IQ tests do nothing other than measure how good you are at answering IQ tests. I have multiple degrees, I am generally considered quite bright. The one time I took an IQ test and sent it off I got a letter back from the testers saying something must have gone wrong because my IQ was so low that I shouldn't have been able to read the questions. I am not making this up.
Agree - my IQ score is very high because I am good at doing IQ tests. However, I cannot change a tap washer or assemble a kit from IKEA.
you guys make me feel so much better. I never had the attention span to finish an IQ test. I suspect I would do poorly.

but I can break into a car with two drinking straws, a clothes pin, and a hair tie. I'm not too worried about my problem solving skills.

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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St. Stephen the Stoned
Shipmate
# 9841

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:


Yes, St Paul did argue all God's children are equal, at least in that God is no respecter of persons and created them all and is willingness to save them all. In the eyes of the God, then, they are equal, although they are not socially and politically equal in the earthly economies. How did St Paul reconcile this point? He told slaves and masters to just get on with, and to work out their own salvation by allowing their Christianity to mellow the social realities. He did not argue that Christians should overthrow the social order. Nor did Jesus, although the Pharisees did try to trick him on the issue.

Just think how the Syriac women touched Jesus robe and he said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". She COULD have said, "how dare you be so discriminatory?" and indeed she would have had she been reading the Ship-of-Twits, but in fact she humbly pointed out that the dogs eat the crumbs that fall off the children's table.


So Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel? How do you equate this with His being "a light to lighten the gentiles"?

And you keep referring to those among us who disagree with you as "Marxists". Can you supply chapter and verse from the works of Karl Marx in support of your contention? And please not the one about the "opiate of the masses".

Or did you mean Groucho?

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Do you want to see Jesus or don't yer? Well shurrup then!

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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quote:
Originally posted by BillyPilgrim:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:


Yes, St Paul did argue all God's children are equal, at least in that God is no respecter of persons and created them all and is willingness to save them all. In the eyes of the God, then, they are equal, although they are not socially and politically equal in the earthly economies. How did St Paul reconcile this point? He told slaves and masters to just get on with, and to work out their own salvation by allowing their Christianity to mellow the social realities. He did not argue that Christians should overthrow the social order. Nor did Jesus, although the Pharisees did try to trick him on the issue.

Just think how the Syriac women touched Jesus robe and he said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". She COULD have said, "how dare you be so discriminatory?" and indeed she would have had she been reading the Ship-of-Twits, but in fact she humbly pointed out that the dogs eat the crumbs that fall off the children's table.


So Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel? How do you equate this with His being "a light to lighten the gentiles"?

And you keep referring to those among us who disagree with you as "Marxists". Can you supply chapter and verse from the works of Karl Marx in support of your contention? And please not the one about the "opiate of the masses".

Or did you mean Groucho?

Hi. I was quoting Matthew 15:24. [But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.]

Yes, you are Marxists, because you dismissed the revealed religion of the Bible in favour of your "social religion" of equality, multiracialism and gay rights etc. That social religion appears to not be religion at all - at least belief in God is not a necessary part of it - and curiously dovetails exactly with the left-wing views of the elite nowadays. It is politics, not religion, although you somehow want to pretend to be Christian while you're at it. Take female so-called equality, you will find Engels in his The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State believed that women were subjugated in prehistory ("the world historical defeat of the female sex", see http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch02c.htm) and that communism would abolish the headship of men ("the supremacy of the man in marriage is the simple consequence of his economic supremacy, and with the abolition of the latter will disappear of itself", see http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch02d.htm).

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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Jesus Christ, you're a total fuckwit. If equality is to be mocked in your religion, not only can you keep it, but you can also shove it up your ass. Sideways.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
I can break into a car with two drinking straws, a clothes pin, and a hair tie
This sends a tingle down my spine. Strong women are SO sexy!

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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And another thought. Anglican2009, by your definition of Marxist, is America a Marxist nation because they were prepared to consider a woman for the roles of President and Vice-President? Or the UK because it is ruled by a woman and has had a female as Prime Minister?

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Hawk

Semi-social raptor
# 14289

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
And another thought. Anglican2009, by your definition of Marxist, is America a Marxist nation because they were prepared to consider a woman for the roles of President and Vice-President? Or the UK because it is ruled by a woman and has had a female as Prime Minister?

Or indeed, ancient Israel, because it had Deborah as it's Judge and spiritual leader.

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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

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