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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: The worst Bible verse
Tyler Durden
Shipmate
# 2996

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I can't help feeding the troll (which he must be since he called Rowan, Rowan Atkinson...)

But everything 'he' is saying is pure BNP [British National Party, Britain's neo-fascist party] rhetoric. They too claim not to be white supremacists, just opposed to 'multiracialism'; they too call everyone who disagrees with them [ie everyone who is not a fascist] a Marxist.

Could Anglican2009 be the same person who turned up here openly supporting the BNP a few years ago? I forget his name...

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Have you ever noticed that anyone driving slower than you is a moron, while anyone driving faster is a maniac? Jerry Seinfeld

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Anglican2009, by your definition of Marxist, is America a Marxist nation because they were prepared to consider a woman for the roles of President and Vice-President? Or the UK because it is ruled by a woman and has had a female as Prime Minister?

By his definition of Marxist everybody in the world who isn't actively subjugating women, persecuting gays and vilifying people whose ethnicity is other than White European is one. Including, presumably, every single person who happens to be female, gay or an ethnicity other than White European.

He's a total fuckwit.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Hawk

Semi-social raptor
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Hi. I was quoting Matthew 15:24. (But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.)

That’s the trouble with your method of apologetics by blind pick-and-mix proof texting. Taking a verse out of context to fit your own opinion can lead you into serious error. Jesus did not just say this and walk away, the chapter does not end with this verse. Jesus healed the Samaritan! He did this because, as the Samaritan herself recognised, ‘even the dogs eat the crumbs from the children’s table’.

Now the woman’s metaphor is not brilliant, it could be misconstrued by someone like you to indicate that the Samaritans were somehow less loved in God’s sight to the Israelites, and indeed, that they were a different sub-species altogether, as different racially to the Israelites as dogs to children. This would be a terrible mistake as this ignores the way the metaphor is being used, merely to indicate an excessive humility and respect for Jesus by the woman, to highlight the injustice in the situation. The woman was saying, even dogs get crumbs, how much more should a neighbour get fed. Remember Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan – Samaritans are neighbours, as are gentiles and all races. Jesus was at pains to explain this.

His statement here was intended only to mean that he was the Jewish Messiah. Matthew’s gospel goes to great lengths to explain that Jesus was this Jewish saviour, who had come to save the Jews. After Jesus’ death we see the great commission, to be sent out to all people of the world. But before Jesus death, his intention was to first save the lost of Israel. Yet even Matthew’s gospel, the most Jewish of gospels, included this scene, strange in the context of his intentions for the book as a whole, but entirely consistent with what we know of Jesus. Matthew made sure it was clear that, even though Jesus came to save Israel, he still took time to care for a Samaritan woman.

This is a vital point to take from the passage. The key verse is not the one you’ve artificially cut out of context, which would have been obvious and not needed saying to his intended Jewish readers. The important point is the woman’s reply and Jesus’ response of assent, and grace. Jesus was saying your verse because it was what his disciples would have expected him to say, it was the set up for another of his famous ways of turning their expectations on its head. Jesus knew how the dialogue would go and he was using this exchange to reveal to his disciples a great truth, that the Samaritan woman, though not a member of the ‘chosen race’, was still a recipient of Jesus’ love and grace, just as much as they were.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Yes, you are Marxists, because you dismissed the revealed religion of the Bible in favour of your "social religion" of equality, multiracialism and gay rights etc. That social religion appears to not be religion at all - at least belief in God is not a necessary part of it - and curiously dovetails exactly with the left-wing views of the elite nowadays. It is politics, not religion, although you somehow want to pretend to be Christian while you're at it.

You don’t agree with left-wing ideology. Yet why do you dismiss those who believe in it as not Christians? Surely someone can believe in a political position and have a religious position as well, why does politics have to cancel religion out? We (or at least most of us) do not dismiss revealed religion at all. We are Christians, followers of the Bible and of church tradition. We accept the scriptures and believe in them, and in Jesus Christ. We have different political ideologies to you but believing in left-wing ideology does not mean we are not Christians. You say that “social religion” by which you mean I assume, ‘political ideology’, does not necessitate a belief in God. That is true, but it does not contradict it either.

Saying that of course, I also have to denounce fully your belief that revealed religion is against equality and multiracialism. And why have you suddenly changed the word from multiculturalism to multiracialism? You must know the two are not synonymous. You are now claiming to be a committed racist. I don’t know whether this is true or whether you don’t actually understand the meaning of the words you’re using. Are you one of those people who believe other races (although the term is largely meaningless in such a racially blended society as Britain) shouldn’t be allowed in Britain? I hope not, I hope you are just throwing words around without thinking.

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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
I can't help feeding the troll (which he must be since he called Rowan, Rowan Atkinson...)

But everything 'he' is saying is pure BNP [British National Party, Britain's neo-fascist party] rhetoric. They too claim not to be white supremacists, just opposed to 'multiracialism'; they too call everyone who disagrees with them [ie everyone who is not a fascist] a Marxist.

Could Anglican2009 be the same person who turned up here openly supporting the BNP a few years ago? I forget his name...

I think he must be a troll as well. On account of how, despite claiming to have never logged onto the Ship until a couple of days ago, he knew straight away that his thread belonged in Hell (the terminally earnest usually head for the Styx or Purgatory or something, no?)

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Hawk

Semi-social raptor
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quote:
Originally posted by lady in red:
[I think he must be a troll as well. On account of how, despite claiming to have never logged onto the Ship until a couple of days ago, he knew straight away that his thread belonged in Hell (the terminally earnest usually head for the Styx or Purgatory or something, no?)

Actually he posted in All Saints but was quickly moved by the hosts. I don't think he's a troll, unfortunately.

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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
We have different political ideologies to you but believing in left-wing ideology does not mean we are not Christians.

Careful with the "we"s there, bud. You're making this place sound far more politically homogenous than it is.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Hawk

Semi-social raptor
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
We have different political ideologies to you but believing in left-wing ideology does not mean we are not Christians.

Careful with the "we"s there, bud. You're making this place sound far more politically homogenous than it is.
Fair enough, but I would think that compared to him, everyone is left-wing!

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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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This is true.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Anglican2009
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quote:
You don’t agree with left-wing ideology. Yet why do you dismiss those who believe in it as not Christians? Surely someone can believe in a political position and have a religious position as well, why does politics have to cancel religion out?
Good question. Because in every case where modern socialist politics disagrees with the magisterium of the church over 19 centuries, you have chosen to "update" the teaching of the church in line with the politics. It is not I who says that politics cancels religion out, but you. Your socialist views have in every single case overwritten the teachings of the church. Social religion has cancelled out revealed Scripture.

For this reason, I feel I have fully made my case that the faux-Christians around the Ship of Twits are not Christians at all. You are people who have no strong doctrinal beliefs - certainly not in anything written in the Bible - but you simply believe in "being nice people", and your definition of what that entails is informed, not by Christian tradition, but by socialist politics and the egalitarian culture pumped out by the BBC. Just think! Should we evangelize the Muslims? The Bible and the magisterium of the church are in accord: yes! But your political views, which are placed higher than anything in the Bible or the magisterium, hold that it would be "supremacist" to do so, or "offensive" or "culturally insensitive", or a number of other buzzwords. The social religion, which is really just socialism, cancels out Christian belief entirely.

For the record, the Bible teaches that all races etc are equal "in the eyes of God", but not necessarily so in earthly societies and economies, and it goes on to teach (see the epistles of Saint Paul inspired by the Holy Ghost) that Christians must accept socioeconomic inequality and mollify the unequal arrangements by means of Christian love. It does NOT teach that it is possible to make a society or economy on earth that is perfectly equal - that would be COMMUNISM.

I have proved my point to the satisfaction of people of good faith. I may log on de temps en temps, but I won't feel obliged to do so every 10 minutes just to see if some apostate twit is running down the Bible or preaching economic equality in the place of Christianity.

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Matt Black

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Tell me, what does your 'magisterium of the Church' teach, for example, on the issue of whether we are saved by faith alone?

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
You are people who have no strong doctrinal beliefs - certainly not in anything written in the Bible - but you simply believe in "being nice people", and your definition of what that entails is informed, not by Christian tradition, but by socialist politics and the egalitarian culture pumped out by the BBC.

There you go, telling us what we believe again. Why don't you ask us, rather than assuming? And, as I said from the outset, we all believe a whole range of things anyhow.

Oh please, go on, post a few more times: that way you'll make 'shipmate' status and all of the generalisations you've been chucking around at people who are on the Ship o' Twits will apply to yourself too!

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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
You are people who have no strong doctrinal beliefs - certainly not in anything written in the Bible - but you simply believe in "being nice people", and your definition of what that entails is informed, not by Christian tradition, but by socialist politics and the egalitarian culture pumped out by the BBC.

Careful who you're saying doesn't have any strong doctrinal belief. Many of us here are very clear in what we believe, probably the vast majority would assent with the historic creeds (OK, we may disagree about little bits like just who exactly the Spirit proceeds from ...). And, some of us are even evangelicals who would put the teaching of Scripture above that of the historic church (not that the two are generally in disagreement).

Part of that strong doctrinal position I hold (I'm not going to speak for others) is the belief that Jesus is Lord. That means that I take his words; recorded in the Gospels, expanding upon the revelation of God in the Law and Prophets, and expanded on in turn by the Apostles in the Epistles; seriously. Which means, among other things, I can't see any way that someone following that same Lord could possibly hold a view that all people are not equal in the sight of God, or that we're not called to work for the betterment of humanity.

Reading this thread reminds me of a certain archbishop who said "When I feed the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor are hungry they call me a Communist". If I'm being classed a Communist then I can't think of better company to be in.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380

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Squirrels eat pencils.

Cars run on gravy.

Anglican2009 has fully made out her/his case.

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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc

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Hiro's Leap

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
by socialist politics and the egalitarian culture pumped out by the BBC.

I love the way "egalitarian" is used as a perjorative. [Big Grin]
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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
by socialist politics and the egalitarian culture pumped out by the BBC.

I love the way "egalitarian" is used as a perjorative. [Big Grin]
I enjoy the use of "pumped out" in these foaming-at-the-mouth posts. The BBC is a Broadcasting Corporation, not a Fire Brigade.

btw, if the BBC was ever a hotbed of communism it must have been in the thirties, forties and fifties, rather than nowadays with the Blairite modernisers in power.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Anglican2009
Bigot
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Yes, by faith alone. Thank you for your query Matt Black. Actually there is a false contretemps on the issue - as faith if genuine would be manifest in works, but none of us can work out his own salvation by his deeds alone.

[ 07. September 2009, 12:32: Message edited by: Anglican2009 ]

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Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by comet
but I can break into a car with two drinking straws, a clothes pin, and a hair tie. I'm not too worried about my problem solving skills.

Do you give lessons?

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
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Just wondering what you think of someone like Hudson Taylor, Anglican2009.

You had two types of Missionaries to China - the ones who attempted to 'Europeanise' the Chinese in order to Evanglise them. Then there were the Hudsons of the world, who dressed in Chinese clothes, spoke the Chinese languages, and related to them according to their culture.

Was he compromising his British culture, or doing the right thing?

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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
You are people who have no strong doctrinal beliefs - certainly not in anything written in the Bible

Funny, I could have sworn that quite a few of us strongly believe that Jesus is the Son of God. apparently that's not in the Bible. Then again, for your statement to be true God Himself would have to not be in the Bible either.

But we've already established that the only things you count as important to Christianity are the three key doctrines: no gays, no women and no ragheads. All else is mere details to you.

quote:
For the record, the Bible teaches that all races etc are equal "in the eyes of God", but not necessarily so in earthly societies and economies, and it goes on to teach (see the epistles of Saint Paul inspired by the Holy Ghost) that Christians must accept socioeconomic inequality and mollify the unequal arrangements by means of Christian love.
What the hell do you think "mollifying the unequal arrangements by means of Christian love" means, if not striving for economic equality?

quote:
I have proved my point to the satisfaction of people of good faith.
Translation: "I have proved my point as far as I am concerned. Anyone who disagrees is not of good faith".

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Hail Gallaxhar

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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Apparently every single person on the Ship believes exactly the same thing.

That presumably means that I am part of the Borg. Which is quite the most exciting thing that has happened to me this afternoon [Big Grin]

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
[QUOTE]
I have proved my point to the satisfaction of people of good faith. I may log on de temps en temps, but I won't feel obliged to do so every 10 minutes just to see if some apostate twit is running down the Bible or preaching economic equality in the place of Christianity.

hahaha congratulations on proving your point.
[Ultra confused]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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oh no ... wait ... I don't think you have at all.

[Disappointed]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Matt Black

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# 2210

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Yes, by faith alone. Thank you for your query Matt Black. Actually there is a false contretemps on the issue - as faith if genuine would be manifest in works, but none of us can work out his own salvation by his deeds alone.

Then I think that Canon IX of the Council of Trent would disagree with, nay anathematise you:

quote:
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.
What, then, of your 'magisterium of the Church'? Which 'magisterium' would that be? The Catholic one or the Anglican one? You can't have both...

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
But everything 'he' is saying is pure BNP [British National Party, Britain's neo-fascist party] rhetoric. They too claim not to be white supremacists, just opposed to 'multiracialism'; they too call everyone who disagrees with them [ie everyone who is not a fascist] a Marxist.

But those few BNP who are into Christianity (they tend more to atehsism of synthetic neo-paganism)roe tare more likely to be looney Protestant types than looney Catholics. (large or small c) There are plenty of right-wing Catholics of course but in Britain at any rate they get thought of as cultural immigrants so tend to be wary of the likes of the BNP. Also the official teachings of the Roman Catholic church are utterly opposed to nationalism and racism (not that that stopped them supporting Franco in Spain) Its hard to see how anyone could be a BNP member in England and get through an honest session at the Confessional.

Also this bloke seems an ultra-monarchist, which doesn't fit with the BNP. Though they claim to be monarchists for public consumption, and most of their voters probably have a sentimental attraction to monarchy, on the whole their party ideologues either despise monarch or think it irrelevant. They want a Leader, not a King.

This guys reads like some sort of Scottish Francoist. Which is just kind of weird. Which is one reason I think at least part of it might be put on.

Though there are plenty of weird people around.

[ 07. September 2009, 14:17: Message edited by: ken ]

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
You are people who have no strong doctrinal beliefs - certainly not in anything written in the Bible - but you simply believe in "being nice people"

You are breaking the Ninth Commandment.

And in the same voice daring to falsely accuse others of not taking God's word seriously.

quote:

Should we evangelize the Muslims? The Bible and the magisterium of the church are in accord: yes! But your political views, which are placed higher than anything in the Bible or the magisterium, hold that it would be "supremacist" to do so, or "offensive" or "culturally insensitive", or a number of other buzzwords.

Who do you mean by "you"? I don't think it is wrong to evengelise Muslims. Loads of people who ppost here don't think its wrong to evangelise Muslims. I saw someone from a Muslim family confirmed in church yesterday, and rejoiced. We should go into the whole world with the good news of Jesus Christ.

You are breaking the Ninth Commandment.

Maybe that's one of the reasons some of us still post on this trainwreck of t a thread. They are hoping to witness the love of Christ to you, because you are displaying anti-Christian hatred and bigotry. And (if you do genuinely mean what you say) you are allowing your false politics to dominate over the Bible. God is not a fascist. God is not a nationalist.

Also you don't actually know what a Marxist is, do you?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126

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It's the first time I've seen it suggested that denizens of the Ship of Fools simply "believe in Being Nice People". Has he read anything that Erin or RooK have written??

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Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave

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Pooks
Shipmate
# 11425

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quote:
Originally posted by JonahMan:
It's the first time I've seen it suggested that denizens of the Ship of Fools simply "believe in Being Nice People". Has he read anything that Erin or RooK have written??

Aye, JonaMan. After 7 pages you should know by now that some of us have our own parallel universe and will not let reality get in the way. [Biased]

Fluffy Bunny Pooks

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Hawk

Semi-social raptor
# 14289

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Because in every case where modern socialist politics disagrees with the magisterium of the church over 19 centuries, you have chosen to "update" the teaching of the church in line with the politics. It is not I who says that politics cancels religion out, but you. Your socialist views have in every single case overwritten the teachings of the church. Social religion has cancelled out revealed Scripture.

Your statements do not follow each other. Your logic is flawed. Your conclusion should have read, in order to be accurate and logical: “Some socialist views have in some cases overwritten previous teachings of the church. Social religion has cancelled out medieval church doctrine.

If you had written this then I would have agreed with you. Sometimes the church was wrong. This is because the church was human. And when a human is wrong it is important for them to recognise this and amend their views accordingly, as long as it is not in conflict with scripture. Now where we differ is, I think, that you do not believe the church can be wrong (which is ignorant in the face of its history). And also that any amendment to church interpretation is in conflict with scripture. If I am right then please can you explain why you hold those views? What is your authority for them and what is your reasoning for that authority? My reasoning for stating that the church is sometimes wrong is that Peter was often wrong (“Get behind me satan”) and in his dispute with Paul. And my reasoning for the fact that amendment is important is again the dispute with Paul led to circumcision being decided not to be important any more – and also the reformation was a good thing IMO. I would like to hear your views explained more clearly.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Should we evangelize the Muslims? The Bible and the magisterium of the church are in accord: yes! But your political views, which are placed higher than anything in the Bible or the magisterium, hold that it would be "supremacist" to do so, or "offensive" or "culturally insensitive", or a number of other buzzwords. The social religion, which is really just socialism, cancels out Christian belief entirely.

And then you change the goalposts again, redefining your argument and arguing against a strawman fantasy of your own. It is not supremacist to want to engage with Muslims and convince them to convert to Christianity. Personally I believe that is what we are called to do as Christians, even if it does offend them. The definition of Supremacism is “the belief that a particular race, religion, gender, species, belief system or culture is superior to others and entitles those who identify with it to dominate, control or rule those who do not”. Isn’t this what you are arguing? Notjust the superiority of one belief over another, but also its right to dominate, rule and oppose any other position? I believe that Christianity is superior to other religious belief systems, but I certainly do not believe that gives me any rights over other people. Nowhere does it say this in the Bible. Where does Jesus say that his followers should seek worldy power, dominance or authority?

You claim that other people’s culture and even their race should be assimilated and eradicated and replaced with a homogenous culture that you have arbitrarily declared to be ‘supreme’, merely because it happens to be yours (although your own culture and this language we are writing in is made up from many foreign races and cultures – when you count you use a language devised by Muslims). This is ‘supremacist’. Please do not keep conflating religion, politics, culture and race as though they were all one thing. I’m starting to suspect you really have no idea about the meaning of the words you are using. I note you have ignored my questions about your use of the term multiracialism and your antipathy towards it. Perhaps you are embarrassed to talk about your attitudes towards other races?

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
For the record, the Bible teaches that all races etc are equal "in the eyes of God", but not necessarily so in earthly societies and economies, and it goes on to teach (see the epistles of Saint Paul inspired by the Holy Ghost) that Christians must accept socioeconomic inequality and mollify the unequal arrangements by means of Christian love. It does NOT teach that it is possible to make a society or economy on earth that is perfectly equal - that would be COMMUNISM.

You admit that all races are equal in God’s perspective. Therefore, I believe, as a Christian it is my duty to make my perspective more like God’s and in doing so, in my small way, make society more like God’s will for it. This is known as building the Kingdom of God on earth. St Paul’s instructions were to resist the temptation to force God’s Kingdom. Equality should never be brought at the point of a sword and IMO never at the point of revolution or armed struggle. Yet by the slow, incremental pressure of Christ-like individuals and reasoned debate the world can be made more like the Kingdom of God. Look at Paul’s letter to Philemon. He puts soft yet steady pressure on Philemon to forgive and to release his slave Onesimus because it is not appropriate for a brother in Christ to enslave another brother. See verse 15-17
quote:
Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good— no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord. So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me.
He des not try and force this or instruct it as God’s command, but he is certainly working towards the abolition of slavery, even if in just this one household. This is an attempt by Paul to make all people equal in a human society – something you have claimed is impossible and shouldn’t even be tried as it is against Christianity! In this you are in direct disagreement with the Apostle Paul. Was he Communist? Do you oppose his attempts at social equality?

This process of building God’s Kingdom will never be complete in this lifetime, it will always be a poor shadow of what it should be, but that is no reason at all not to try. It might not be possible to make a society that is perfectly equal, but we are called to make our own society more equal as best we can.

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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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quote:
Originally posted by lady in red:
That presumably means that I am part of the Borg. Which is quite the most exciting thing that has happened to me this afternoon [Big Grin]

I could help you de-assimilate, if you want! [Two face]

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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
What we need is a Josiah-like king who suddenly discovers the KJV and the BCP and decided to restore the Christian faith. However Prince Charles does not have the makings of a Josiah - he has already indicated that he will disregard the requirement to defend the Christian Faith.

No he hasn't. He has said that he would like to defend ALL faiths. Good for him. As an anti-monarchist, I quite warm to him on that issue.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Jesus Christ, you're a total fuckwit. If equality is to be mocked in your religion, not only can you keep it, but you can also shove it up your ass. Sideways.

Congratulations is putting into words what I have been thinking as I have caught up with his pontifications today.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
quote:
Originally posted by lady in red:
That presumably means that I am part of the Borg. Which is quite the most exciting thing that has happened to me this afternoon [Big Grin]

I could help you de-assimilate, if you want! [Two face]
Ever since that mafia game I've been trying to persuade you to become a pentecostal. I don't think either of us is about to change our mind any time soon [Biased]

Anyways, I think being part of the Borg sounds quite exciting.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Good God in His Heaven, are you people still trying to argue rationally with this guy? And in Hell of all places? [Confused]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
quote:
Originally posted by lady in red:
That presumably means that I am part of the Borg. Which is quite the most exciting thing that has happened to me this afternoon [Big Grin]

I could help you de-assimilate, if you want! [Two face]
Squiggle, is that your attempt at flirting?

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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Haven't you worked it out yet, of course we are, that is why its hell. Whether we are tormenting him or he is tormenting us is of course another matter of debate.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169

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Excellent cross-post.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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Anglican 1009: You believe the exact opposite of what the historical church believed for centuries! Is outrage! Apostates! Terminate! Terminate! Terminate!

Apostate Shipmates: How on earth can you believe those things today??? Those things are vile and stupid.

Andrew: Christianity was indeed vile and stupid. Feel free to make your own brand new versions though. They are much nicer.

Apostate Shipmates: They are not our versions. They are Christianity!

Andrew: Of course they are! [Biased]

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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
quote:
Originally posted by lady in red:
That presumably means that I am part of the Borg. Which is quite the most exciting thing that has happened to me this afternoon [Big Grin]

I could help you de-assimilate, if you want! [Two face]
Squiggle, is that your attempt at flirting?
I guess it could be. I have to admit to being more charitably disposed to Andrew than many people on the ship, having engaged in a gloriously successful murderous rampage together in a game of mafia.* However I hasten to add that we will never, ever, ever until-hell-freezes-over become more than good friends [Ultra confused] (or at the very least until he converts to a moderate, listening, enlightened form of pentecostalism, which I suspect is the same thing [Two face] )

*I hasten to add that Andrew was a mere lowly mafia minion. I was the evil genius masterminding the operation [Snigger]

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by lady in red:

*I hasten to add that Andrew was a mere lowly mafia minion. I was the evil genius masterminding the operation [Snigger]

Not at all surprising, I don't think Squiggle's had an original thought his entire life.

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208

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Gawd, why does every thread end up being about Andrew these days?

Zach

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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not every thread.

some wind up being about Yorick.

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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And the End of Ages shall come when it is revealed that verily, they are one and the same. [Devil]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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David
Complete Bastard
# 3

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Yes, by faith alone. Thank you for your query Matt Black. Actually there is a false contretemps on the issue - as faith if genuine would be manifest in works, but none of us can work out his own salvation by his deeds alone.

Poof.
Posts: 3815 | From: Redneck Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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quote:
Originally posted by David:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Yes, by faith alone. Thank you for your query Matt Black. Actually there is a false contretemps on the issue - as faith if genuine would be manifest in works, but none of us can work out his own salvation by his deeds alone.

Poof.
Yeah - centuries of debate resolved in a master stroke. If only this guy - with his towering intellect, rapier wit and deep theological insight - had been around in the sixteenth century: the Reformation need never have happened!

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
I have fully made my case that the faux-Christians around the Ship of Twits are not Christians at all.

Indeed, indeed ...
But, as the biblical christian that you so clearly are, and as the morally upstanding proclaimer of truth, justice and all things of God that you so exemplify, I'm still needing to hear the model of biblical marriage that you feel we should be upholding. This worries me personally because I feel I may have grieved God, and ... well you can imagine my concern for I fear I may have sinned

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

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Sorry, I tried - I really tried - to read through this thread, but, even though my blood pressure runs toward the low end of normal, I'm sure this thread could bring out a latent gene and send my blood pressure through the roof.

So I tried then just reading the OPer's posts. Couldn't get through all of them, either.

But I do have this question: how is it that someone who identifies herself as Anglican keeps banging on about the unbroken (and apparently unchangeable) tradition of the Church?

I'm guessing her identity as English takes precedence, then. Anglicanism was a rather late arrival on the scene, and its first theologian (Angie2009 - can you name that theologian?) argued quite strenuously the view that Church tradition in fact can - and sometimes should - change.

I'd encourage you to go to Rome, but I wouldn't wish you on my brothers and sisters in that Church either.

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

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Matt Black

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# 2210

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I'm still waiting for Angie to cut the Gordian Knot of the Reformation properly. Of course s/he can succeed where countless generations of soteriologists have failed; to him/her, in the words of an infamous advert, doubtless "Is simples".

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:

For the record, the Bible teaches that all races etc are equal "in the eyes of God", but not necessarily so in earthly societies and economies, and it goes on to teach (see the epistles of Saint Paul inspired by the Holy Ghost) that Christians must accept socioeconomic inequality and mollify the unequal arrangements by means of Christian love. It does NOT teach that it is possible to make a society or economy on earth that is perfectly equal - that would be COMMUNISM.

I know this is a waste of time, but...

Are you saying that the views of "earthly societies and economies" take precedence over "the eyes of God"? That we should accept inequalities, even though they are offensive to God, because the world sees people like that?

Do you really believe that the world takes precedence over God, the Bible etc?

And you have the nerve to attack people here for not being Christians...

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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist

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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941

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(Apologies for the double post)

Oh, and where does the Bible teach against Communism? (Leaving aside the fact that Communism was a philosophy developed in the 19th century). Or teach in favour of Capitalism?

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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist

Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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quote:
What the hell do you think "mollifying the unequal arrangements by means of Christian love" means, if not striving for economic equality?
No. This is heresy. Since where did St Paul argue that slaveowners and slaves should seek to abolish slavery? He argued simply that they should be nice to each other but accept the institution of slavery. This is not "striving for equality". You are not a believer at all. Marvin claims he believes Jesus is the Son of God. PULL THE OTHER ONE, IT'S GOT BELLS ON. A believer in Jesus as the Son of God, but a disbeliever in the writings of St Paul? You are just an atheist who believes in left-wing politics, trying to borrow the moral authority of the church. I hope your vicar denies you the privilege of communication.

Ken, you are breaking the 9th commandment yourself. Real my para above and repent.

Hawk, we are not talking about "social religion cancelling out mediaeval church doctrine" but rather the doctrine of the church right back to Pentecost and clearly written in the Scriptures. Hawk, I do not believe in dominating controling or ruling others. That's why the Third World is independent - and they can practice what they like in their countries. By the same token, I do not believe in our being dominated, controled or ruled by others, and that's why I don't believe in immigration, which is leading to English people becoming 2nd class citizens in their own country. If you Hawk believe in immigration, then you are a supremacist - you are a patsy for the ethnic supremacists.

Philemon is not a tract against slavery but rather a recognition that slaves can become our Christian brothers. I found some help in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Philemon. The writer their explains

quote:
it is not self-evident as to what has transpired
quote:
The dominant scholarly consensus is that Onesimus is a runaway slave who became a Christian believer. Paul now sends him back to face his aggrieved master, and strives in his letter to effect reconciliation between these two Christians. What is more contentious is how Onesimus came to be with Paul. Various suggestions have been given: Onesimus being imprisoned with Paul; Onesimus being brought to Paul by others; Onesimus coming to Paul by chance (or in the Christian view, by divine providence); or Onesimus deliberately seeking Paul out, as a friend of his master's, in order to be reconciled.
quote:
Several issues remain unclear about Paul's expectations for Philemon. Is he expected to forgive Onesimus or Manumit him? Is he to consider Onesimus to be Philemon's "brother" as well as his "slave"? Does this new brotherhood supplant his servitude?
quote:
Luther insisted that the letter upheld the social status quo: Paul did nothing to change Onesimus's legal position as a slave—and he complied with the law in returning him.
It seems St Paul sent the slave back to serve as a slave in Philemon's house, but asked Philemon to receive him as a brother - as a brother also as well as being as slave. Hawk, have you shown that your anti-slavery interpretation was taught by the Christian church for 19 centuries? How many of the Early Church Fathers believed those verses were anti-slavery? Otherwise, you are guilty of a private interpretation - you are twisting the Scriptures to your own destruction.
Posts: 43 | From: Firmly ensconced in the closet | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged



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