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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: The worst Bible verse
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
This has to be the least funny, most gruesome attempt at humor ever on the Ship of Fools.

No way. Franco-American did far worse only a few hours ago by soiling a stupid thread about T-shirts with a disgusting rape fantasy. That I hope was meant as a joke - I'd rather think he has no sense of humour than that he actually gets off on fantasising about raping pacifists. Or anyone else.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
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quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
You sure like turning your focus from ideas to people...

You sure like turning threads from ideas to yourself.

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

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Zach82
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I don't think Andrew makes every thread about himself directly. But he does make every thread about his own crisis of faith.

As much as internet psychology is worth, it seems to me that Andrew's previous faith was his own brazen idol. Clearly he believes his system of faith the only one possible, which only crowns his own intellect with infallibility. That idol failed to nurture his faith, as idols customarily fail to do, but instead of casting out that idol he chose to leave it in its place and rail against is endlessly for not being the True God.

Zach

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
Get it into your head: the Pope has no authority over the Anglican Communion.

Nobody seems to have any authority over the Anglican communion. Someone wants to believe A is OK? He can believe it. Another wants to believe A is not OK? He, too, can believe it. Someone wants to take B as authoritative? He can do that. Another wants to get rid of B's authority? That's fine as well.
Oh I so often hear this from those that like an authoritarian world.

Yet on the whole this process works: a priest, theologian, or bishop, for example, that began preaching that rape in marriage was a mandate of God, would soon find voices of God's people crying out in righteous anger, and his idiocies would be silenced by a spiritual outpouring of righteous anger.

Similarly one who argued passionately that children should be adopted as household slaves (of course Swift suggested they should be eaten, but that's another matter). Doctrinal issues undergo a similar if less dramatic process: week and bad theologies eventually shrivel and die on the waysides of history - acceptance of slavery of course being one. I suspect that in a hundred years, maybe two hundred, our successors in faith will wonder what all the fuss about sexuality and gender was - funnily enough I don't think lay presidency will survive that est of time because it strikes at the heart of Anglican liturgical and sacramental self-definition. But I won't be around anyway. I suspect unitarian and a-theistic 'theo'logies will likewise die, though their pundits will ever surface.

--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Anglican2009
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Stejjie, you misrepresented Acts 4:32. The verse reads: "neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common". This is not communism. None of them SAID the things he POSSESSED HIMSELF were his own, but in law they still were. They just didn't bring it up amongst themselves and chose to allow their possessions to be used in a common pot. But they still possessed them individually in law.

"Let me get this straight: you actually think authentic, "good" Christianity not only accepts that some people will be treated as more equal than others, but it's a key part of Christian theology?" Look, it's the multiculturalists who believe the blacks and Pakistanis are "more equal" than us.

Ken, you are misinformed. Where a crime is judged to have been motivated by "hate", the courts now have the power to hand down tougher sentences. Read the discussion at http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/oct/31/ukcrime.gayrights. There have been a number of killings of British people by ethnic minorities where the police refused to accept that racial hatred was a factor despite evidence to the contrary. It seems these "tougher sentences" apply only to protect minorities. The Home Office mentions the legislation at http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/, where it says:

quote:
* The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 created a number of new racially and religiously aggravated offences
* The Criminal Justice Act 2003 introduced tougher sentences for offences motivated by hatred of the victim’s sexual orientation (this must now be taken into account by the sentencing court as an aggravating factor, in addition to race or religious hate motivation).

Actually, I regard crime by black people as motivated by hate too, but the courts will usually only hand down tougher sentences for supposed "hate as an aggravating factor" where the victim is ethnic. So much for equality before the law!

Zappa - you may be right. In 200 years' time, female clergymen and anal sex amongst men may be accepted by the shell of the organisation called the CofE today. The triumph of Satan would then be total. Actually the Bible contains many examples of the backsliding of ancient Israel -- it is no surprise that we are following this trajectory too.

[ 09. September 2009, 05:09: Message edited by: Anglican2009 ]

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Mertseger

Faerie Bard
# 4534

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But those few BNP who are into Christianity (they tend more to atehsism of synthetic neo-paganism)roe tare more likely to be looney Protestant types than looney Catholics.

Anglitroll1984 really seems to get you reacting faster than you type, Ken. Was that supposed to be "atheism or synthetic neo-paganism?" All I know of the BNP is what I read on these boards, but in the US our racist, right-wing neo-pagans are largely concentrated in the Asatru traditions (though there are many Asatru who are not racist or right-wing nut-cases like our Anglitroll1984 here). Asatru are Germanic pantheon revivalists and, generally, not eclectic and only synthetic to the extent that the historical sources available for reviving Germanic Pagan religions are limited (as is the case with many historical forms of Paganism) and some gaps must be filled in. There is probably some synthesis with the Nazi Thule Society of WWII within modern Asatru, I would wager.

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Go and be who you are:
The Body of Christ,
The Goddess of Body,
The Manifest Song of Faerie.

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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Zappa - you may be right. In 200 years' time, female clergymen and anal sex amongst men may be accepted by the shell of the organisation called the CofE today. The triumph of Satan would then be total. Actually the Bible contains many examples of the backsliding of ancient Israel -- it is no surprise that we are following this trajectory too.

/nitpicking/ - I think that would be 'female clergypersons', Anglican2009. Or, even more correctly, seeing as you are using the plural, simply 'female clergy'.

Also - since you brought it up - evidently 'anal sex amongst men' is a problem for you (nitpicking again, but it should be 'between' men) - how do you feel about anal sex between consenting, heterosexual, properly married, churchgoing types? Never thought about it? Funny how the church DOESN'T subject heterosexuals to the third degree about what they practice in the privacy of their own homes, isn't it?

Honestly, you make Jack T. Chick seem like a lucid and reasonable individual with something important to say...

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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --

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sanityman
Shipmate
# 11598

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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Myrrh doing a Faustian dog, wonders me?

The Admins must have checked out his IP by now. I therefore assume that either
  • he's a genuine newbie troll, or
  • the Hellhosts have petitioned not to have him cast into the outer darkness just yet for the amusement value...
- Chris.

PS: Mousethief: at 9 pages and counting, I'd say he's succeeding.

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Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only the wind will listen - TS Eliot

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Stejjie, you misrepresented Acts 4:32. The verse reads: "neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common". This is not communism. None of them SAID the things he POSSESSED HIMSELF were his own, but in law they still were. They just didn't bring it up amongst themselves and chose to allow their possessions to be used in a common pot. But they still possessed them individually in law.

To some extent, at least at surface level, a fair comment. The Lukan allusion is to a common proverb familiar to a myriad utopian thinkers ofthe time and earlier, and contrasts generosity of spirit with meanness; Acts 5.4 probably confirms that some degree of 'ownership' was retained - indeed to project Marx et al.'s notion of communally shared resources on a first century world is probably a little anachronistic. Still: there was in Luke's idealistic mind a sense that goods were no longer the property of the legal owner, but the property of Christ, shared by, in Paul's terms, those in christ, in the service of the gospel. It was a communal vision - which, funnily enough, is what the word 'communism' denotes.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
"Let me get this straight: you actually think authentic, "good" Christianity not only accepts that some people will be treated as more equal than others, but it's a key part of Christian theology?" Look, it's the multiculturalists who believe the blacks and Pakistanis are "more equal" than us.

Unfortunately even the most conservative of the gospel writers has to embrace the fact that Jesus had a nasty habit of crossing racial divides, and therefore radically subverting the bitterly divisive ideologies of his day. Jesus irritatingly tended towards a preferential option for the outsider, equating pretty much with what you (in somewhat laden terminology) label as the error of 'multiculturalists'. If 'multiculturalists' are those who believe that socio-economic, educational, and medical opportunities should not be based on ethnicity, then I fear, whether or not they care a fig about Jesus, they nevertheless could if they chose cite some of his attitudes as a precedent. It's a nuisance, but never mind.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Ken, you are misinformed. Where a crime is judged to have been motivated by "hate", the courts now have the power to hand down tougher sentences. Read the discussion at http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/oct/31/ukcrime.gayrights. There have been a number of killings of British people by ethnic minorities where the police refused to accept that racial hatred was a factor despite evidence to the contrary. It seems these "tougher sentences" apply only to protect minorities. The Home Office mentions the legislation at http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/, where it says:

quote:
* The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 created a number of new racially and religiously aggravated offences
* The Criminal Justice Act 2003 introduced tougher sentences for offences motivated by hatred of the victim’s sexual orientation (this must now be taken into account by the sentencing court as an aggravating factor, in addition to race or religious hate motivation).

Actually, I regard crime by black people as motivated by hate too, but the courts will usually only hand down tougher sentences for supposed "hate as an aggravating factor" where the victim is ethnic. So much for equality before the law!

On that I probably can't coment, as I live in another country. I'm sure ken will find some interesting facts. But I certainly know that 'hate crimes', rare though thy are in my country, are punished pretty mush equally no matter which direction the hate travels.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Zappa - you may be right. In 200 years' time, female clergymen and anal sex amongst men may be accepted by the shell of the organisation called the CofE today. The triumph of Satan would then be total. Actually the Bible contains many examples of the backsliding of ancient Israel -- it is no surprise that we are following this trajectory too.

I'm not sure that this 'Satan' is actually so powerful that, if he/she existed he/she would be able to defeat the purposes of God, but I must say your idea of the totality of Satan's potential is that he/she persuades men to put their willies in places other than vaginas then his/her creativity-in-subversiveness is fairly limited.

I would have thought that creating societies so focussed on greed that they had no time for matters of justice or even for matters of the spirit, or so focussed on superficial cultural and external differences that they had no recognition of the deeper human ties that unite, would be a far more effective use of Satan's demonic energies.

But you know, maybe if there is a Satan, then he/she and his/her dupes would major in the minors, neglecting the big pictures of justice and compassion while wallowing in the petty details of otherness.

--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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By the way ... you forgot to mention which model of biblical marriage you are endorsing.

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
There have been a number of killings of British people by ethnic minorities where the police refused to accept that racial hatred was a factor despite evidence to the contrary.

Google that phrase, and guess what you find?

- Nick Griffin making a familiar-sounding argument on a BNP-supporting site

- A report of the BNP using similar claims to win votes in Oldham (scroll down to '(2) Police against Macpherson' to find a match).


Funny, that.

I suppose this is what happens when you don't obey your owner.

--------------------
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Marvin: whether slavery is restored or not is a worldly matter, but Jesus said his kingdom was no part of this world. It has been suggested that slavery is only suitable for an agricultural economy and so would not work in the modern world.

You're backsliding? Oh deary deary me. Where's the courage of your convictions, man.

If you carry on like this, the jackbooted thugs you hang around with will be at your door soon enough, bub - if there's one thing they hate more than a "liberal" it's one of their own "going soft".

quote:
Actually, Marvin you indicated in your post that you don't believe in the Bible, which contains Paul's "deeply flawed" writings. Why believe Jesus is the SoG, but oppose the writings of his 1st century followers who the church has always believed were inspired by God. You are contradicting the view of every single Early Church Father than the 19 centuries of the church.
There's at least one "Early Church Father" who also disagreed with Paul - St Peter, first Pope and first among the 12 disciples. I think I'm in good company.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126

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Anyone who thinks that ethnic minorities in the UK get a better deal than the white majority is either blind, illiterate or bigoted. As Anglispam09 appears to be able to see and write that only leaves one option.

In any case, even if he was correct in his analysis, surely this is merely part of the social order which he, by his own lights as a good Christian, ought not to be interested in. If white Brits are 2nd class citizens then by his logic (and I use the term loosely) then they should be content with their lot.

On the other hand if he wants to return to a previous state of society then why stop at the middle ages? Give Britain back to the Beaker People and the rest of us piss off back to wherever we came from I say!

--------------------
Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave

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Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

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Genetically, I 'come from' over half a dozen places; what am I supposed to do in Anglifuckwit's dystopia? Slice myself into pieces and post the bits to the various points of origin?

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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quote:
Unfortunately even the most conservative of the gospel writers has to embrace the fact that Jesus had a nasty habit of crossing racial divides, and therefore radically subverting the bitterly divisive ideologies of his day. Jesus irritatingly tended towards a preferential option for the outsider, equating pretty much with what you (in somewhat laden terminology) label as the error of 'multiculturalists'. If 'multiculturalists' are those who believe that socio-economic, educational, and medical opportunities should not be based on ethnicity, then I fear, whether or not they care a fig about Jesus, they nevertheless could if they chose cite some of his attitudes as a precedent. It's a nuisance, but never mind.
Jesus consorted with centurions but did not say that that meant he approved of military conquest of other people's countries. Jesus never suggested that ethnic minorities are "more equal" than the host nations - the race relations industry today is engaged in promoting this notion. Neither did he say that minorities should not integrate. Neither did he comment on whether one should let foreigners arrive in such numbers that they squash out the country's culture. I would suggest if the country were Christian, He would not approve of allowing the country to slide into heresy and blasphemy via Islamism.

You are wrong on hate crimes. A white man who kills a black (very rare in the UK) is punished with a far longer sentence than the much more frequent killing of a white man by a negro.

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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Jesus never suggested that ethnic minorities are "more equal" than the host nations

Hmmmm. Parable of the Good Samaritan???

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
There's at least one "Early Church Father" who also disagreed with Paul - St Peter, first Pope and first among the 12 disciples. I think I'm in good company.

First Pope? It's unlikely that the guy ever went to Rome!

Oh, and Peter lost the game to Paul. If his views had prevailed, then the history of Christianity would be rather different.

Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam.

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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:

You are wrong on hate crimes. A white man who kills a black (very rare in the UK) is punished with a far longer sentence than the much more frequent killing of a white man by a negro.

Er, the last time I looked there were more white people in Britain, hence when people are killed they are more likely to be white, whatever the colour or race of the killer.

As for the sentencing palaver, I'd like to see that substantiated. No, really I would. From a half-way credible source too please.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by §Andrew:
So many people whining about Anglican2009, while turning a blind eye to the evidence he gives that the Christian Church has been a very dark institution, and that this darkness comes from its holy books.

Did you notice the initial complaint in this thread? That we (the Ship) have been running a project highlighting some of those parts of our holy books that we find uncomfortable and would much prefer if they weren't there (or, phrased slightly differently). That can hardly be termed "turning a blind eye" to some of the institutional darkness of church history (and, contemporary practice in far too many cases).

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Look, it's the multiculturalists who believe the blacks and Pakistanis are "more equal" than us.

Have you ever heard of a straw man? Well, if not you sure know how to post a straw man argument.

Now, try again. "Multiculturalist" is multi-faceted. It could mean that different cultures have equal value (no "more equal" in the definition). It's better thought that a mix of cultures is better than a monoculture.

And, of course, I'm sure you've benefited from our multi-cultural society. It could be small things; ever eaten a curry, stir fry or pizza? Ever worn pyjamas to bed?

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380

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Claiming that your opponents are “Marxists”. Check.

Proclaiming ‘victim status’ for white people. Check.

Targeting Christians. Check.

So nutty that even Christian Voice would probably repudiate you. Check.

What amazing coincidences.

--------------------
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc

Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:

Ken, you are misinformed. Where a crime is judged to have been motivated by "hate", the courts now have the power to hand down tougher sentences. Read the discussion at http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/oct/31/ukcrime.gayrights. There have been a number of killings of British people by ethnic minorities where the police refused to accept that racial hatred was a factor despite evidence to the contrary. It seems these "tougher sentences" apply only to protect minorities. The Home Office mentions the legislation at http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/, where it says:

quote:
* The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 created a number of new racially and religiously aggravated offences
* The Criminal Justice Act 2003 introduced tougher sentences for offences motivated by hatred of the victim’s sexual orientation (this must now be taken into account by the sentencing court as an aggravating factor, in addition to race or religious hate motivation).

.
A2, you are not telling the truth.

First, your post that I was replying to was about murder, specifically the murder of Stephen Lawrence. The penalty for murder is the same whatever the motivation, as you know.

Secondly, the first link you supplied was about anti-gay crimes. Nothing to do with race or ethnic minorities at all, so irrelevant to your point.

Secondly, the law about racially and religiously aggravated offences is the same for everyone. Personally I disagree hate-craime laws for all sorts of reasons, but it does apply to everyone.

But I imagine that you already know all this.

Oh, and raising another old topic you supplied false information about, maybe you didn't know that the Church Fathers who converted the Slavs in the early middle ages were strong opponents of slavery? There has been oppotion to slavery in the Church since ancient times.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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FCB

Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495

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What I am trying to figure out is why I found Andrew's posts tiresome both before and after he completely changed his beliefs. Given the 180 turn, one would think there would be some improvement.

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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.

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Figbash

The Doubtful Guest
# 9048

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Genetically, I 'come from' over half a dozen places; what am I supposed to do in Anglifuckwit's dystopia? Slice myself into pieces and post the bits to the various points of origin?

I suppose we ought to all go back to Africa and hang out in the Afar region of Ethiopia. Personally, I'd sooner be dead in a ditch.
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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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Ken I know you just don't know the law. That's not necessarily your fault. The minimum prison sentence for murder is usually 12 years, but this increases to 16 years in the case of racially aggravated murder. Maybe you just missed the various Criminal Justice Acts passed under Labour. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/2018431.stm. These laws have been in place for a number of years in the UK - I quoted the exact Act of Parliament in a previous post. Obama is now bringing in equivalent legislation in the US. You are way behind the times.
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Figbash

The Doubtful Guest
# 9048

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Ken I know you just don't know the law. That's not necessarily your fault. The minimum prison sentence for murder is usually 12 years, but this increases to 16 years in the case of racially aggravated murder. Maybe you just missed the various Criminal Justice Acts passed under Labour. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/2018431.stm. These laws have been in place for a number of years in the UK - I quoted the exact Act of Parliament in a previous post. Obama is now bringing in equivalent legislation in the US. You are way behind the times.

And what evidence do you have, beyond your sick fantasy, that if a black man killed a white man in what was deemed a racially motivated crime, he would be punished any less severely than if the roles were reversed?
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Organ Builder
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So the US isn't the only country that produces scary whacko fruitcakes.

In some perverse way, I find that comforting.

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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
And what evidence do you have, beyond your sick fantasy, that if a black man killed a white man in what was deemed a racially motivated crime, he would be punished any less severely than if the roles were reversed?

A9 strikes me as the sort of person who wants to introduce the death penalty for black people.

If he's in a particularly generous mood, he might even wait for them to commit a crime first...

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
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quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
What I am trying to figure out is why I found Andrew's posts tiresome both before and after he completely changed his beliefs. Given the 180 turn, one would think there would be some improvement.

Same inflexible fundamentalisim, just dressed up in a shiny new atheist outfit.

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

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St. Stephen the Stoned
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Anglican 2009, none of the links you provide actually lead anywhere. A bit like your arguments.

Or were they removed by Marxists?

[ 09. September 2009, 14:14: Message edited by: BillyPilgrim ]

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Do you want to see Jesus or don't yer? Well shurrup then!

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Matt Black

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quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Genetically, I 'come from' over half a dozen places; what am I supposed to do in Anglifuckwit's dystopia? Slice myself into pieces and post the bits to the various points of origin?

I suppose we ought to all go back to Africa and hang out in the Afar region of Ethiopia. Personally, I'd sooner be dead in a ditch.
I'd like to see the OPer sent to the Danakil Depression...

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by BillyPilgrim:
Anglican 2009, none of the links you provide actually lead anywhere. A bit like your arguments.

That's because he's inept at coding. All you have to do is remove the last bit of punctuation (usually a full stop) from the link.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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JonahMan
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One recent high profile race-hate criminal was well-known white man Abu Hamza - how much more evidence of Anglispawn09's correctness do we need?

You might like to look at these statistics which break down offences by race. In particular this section is of relevance:

quote:
Table 6.5 shows national level data on sentencing in the Crown Court by main offence group. The main offence group attracting the highest number of custodial sentences was violence against the person. A higher proportion of those in the Black (56%) and ‘Other’ (53%) groups received custody for this offence compared with the Asian (50%) and White (49%) groups.

Obviously there is a huge quantity of material in this report, far more than I care to read, but I can't see anything which would suggest that there is anything backing up Angie09's ludicrous and deluded claims. I expect the next claim will be that these government stats are all invented and that Nick Griffin has a better understanding of the real situation.

--------------------
Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave

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Alaric the Goth
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Given that we are all Atheist Socialists or Marxist Atheists on here, and hadn’t realised [Ultra confused] , perhaps we need a name change amnesty to reflect this. The following suggestions may (not) be taken up:
- Marxin the Marxist
- Marxthief
- Atheiab
- chastmarxist
- Marx Black
- Sioni Socialist
- Marxseger
- kenmarx

Allmarxist the Goth

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Badger Lady
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quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Ken I know you just don't know the law. That's not necessarily your fault. The minimum prison sentence for murder is usually 12 years, but this increases to 16 years in the case of racially aggravated murder. Maybe you just missed the various Criminal Justice Acts passed under Labour. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/2018431.stm. These laws have been in place for a number of years in the UK - I quoted the exact Act of Parliament in a previous post. Obama is now bringing in equivalent legislation in the US. You are way behind the times.

And what evidence do you have, beyond your sick fantasy, that if a black man killed a white man in what was deemed a racially motivated crime, he would be punished any less severely than if the roles were reversed?
Anglican2009, darling, you do realise that 'race' doesn't just apply to those brown people you don't like very much, don't you? There can be racially aggravated crime against a pinky-white person like (I assume) yourself too.

A murder will always result in a life imprisonment. A motivation of racial hatred will result in a higher tariff (minimum time spent locked up before release) as it is an aggravating feature. This is the same regardless of the colour of the murderer and victim . Details of sentencing in murder can be found here (scroll down for the murder sentence guidelines.

[ 09. September 2009, 14:54: Message edited by: Badger Lady ]

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art dunce
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quote:
Jesus consorted with centurions but did not say that that meant he approved of military conquest of other people's countries. Jesus never suggested that ethnic minorities are "more equal" than the host nations - the race relations industry today is engaged in promoting this notion. Neither did he say that minorities should not integrate. Neither did he comment on whether one should let foreigners arrive in such numbers that they squash out the country's culture. I would suggest if the country were Christian, He would not approve of allowing the country to slide into heresy and blasphemy via Islamism.
All of this from a white British male would be funny if it weren't so deluded and tragic. Your Imperialist country has throughout history engaged in numerous military conquests of other people's countries, set yourselves up as "more equal" in those places, patently refused to integrate and squashed countless cultures. The incessant mewling of the angry white male is growing tiresome. Luckily, with your numbers and influence in decline it will become but a whisper in the winds of change.

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Ego is not your amigo.

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
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Dear me, I'm a gay Quaker [ex-Anglican] with an Asian boyfriend and we're both, erm, left of centre in our politics - I'm worried that Angela2009 won't like me.

[Waterworks]

Help, what should I do?

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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Ken I know you just don't know the law. That's not necessarily your fault. The minimum prison sentence for murder is usually 12 years

You know nothing of the kind. The mandatory prison sentence for murder in England is life. I disapprove of that myself, but unfortunately it is the law. I don't know who you are trying to fool with your nonsense but it won't work here.

You are obviously on some sort of crusade and don't care about bearing false witness. Perhaps I am getting oversensitive to all the right-wing lies being put about in the USA about the British healthcare system (& that of other countries as well) but although you are paying no attention to anything anyone writes here, so there is no more point in replying to you than there would be in arguing with a kitchen table, its possible that someone else might be mislead.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by Wiff Waff:
Dear me, I'm a gay Quaker [ex-Anglican] with an Asian boyfriend and we're both, erm, left of centre in our politics - I'm worried that Angela2009 won't like me.

[Waterworks]

Help, what should I do?

Thank God?

--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Organ Builder
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiff Waff:
Help, what should I do?

Come by for a cocktail?

--------------------
How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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[Killing me]

Well, in my Hostly capacity I shifted the thread here, so I know he won't like me. [Waterworks] I'm also a refugee from Anglicanism and yer true type Catholic. So that's a double whammy.

I'll just offer it up to God.

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Even more so than I was before

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Anglican2009
Bigot
# 15061

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Ken I know you just don't know the law. That's not necessarily your fault. The minimum prison sentence for murder is usually 12 years

You know nothing of the kind. The mandatory prison sentence for murder in England is life. I disapprove of that myself, but unfortunately it is the law. I don't know who you are trying to fool with your nonsense but it won't work here.

This is very tedious. Life doesn't mean life. A life sentence is issued for murder, manslaughter etc, and then a "minimum tariff" imposed. The minimum tariff is 12 years for most murders, rising to 16 for "racially aggravated" and there are a range of other tariffs too. Yes, I would prefer the death penalty for murder, and then there would be no dispute at all.

For the record, the PDFs on race and the justice system someone just linked to showed 74 killings of whites by blacks over a 2 year period, and 22 blacks killed by whites. In other words, of the 1m black population, 1 in every 13,500 killed a white person in the period. Of the 50m white population, 1 in every 2.27m killed a black person in the period. Black people are killing white people at 168 TIMES the opposite rate. And yes, I did have to check those figures. They are so extreme they shocked even me!

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Anglican2009
Bigot
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quote:
Originally posted by Badger Lady:
A motivation of racial hatred will result in a higher tariff (minimum time spent locked up before release) as it is an aggravating feature. This is the same regardless of the colour of the murderer and victim

This is exactly my point. The police generally refuse to accept there was a racial aspect to a killing of a white by a black - claiming that it was just ordinary crime and not racially motivated. There have been many cases where the police simply refused to class it as a racially aggravated crime. So if you can get the multiculturalist traitors in the court system to accept that a killing was racist, then, yes, you are right, even the killers of white people will get a longer sentence. But the problem is that our rulers try to bury black racism under the carpet and refuse to acknowledge the racial aspect in murder of white people. That's why some people are MORE EQUAL than others.
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Spike

Mostly Harmless
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You keep on with this phrase "More Equal". Can you explain what this means? Either someone or something is equal or not. You cannot have more or less equal, it simply doesn't exist. Were you missing the day they did maths at your school?

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

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Figbash

The Doubtful Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
quote:
Originally posted by Badger Lady:
A motivation of racial hatred will result in a higher tariff (minimum time spent locked up before release) as it is an aggravating feature. This is the same regardless of the colour of the murderer and victim

This is exactly my point.

No it's the opposite of your point. You were claiming that the law was inherently biased, and I asked you for evidence to support that claim (which I note you have not given).

quote:

The police generally refuse to accept there was a racial aspect to a killing of a white by a black - claiming that it was just ordinary crime and not racially motivated.

Evidence?
quote:

There have been many cases where the police simply refused to class it as a racially aggravated crime.


Evidence?
quote:

So if you can get the multiculturalist traitors in the court system to accept that a killing was racist, then, yes, you are right, even the killers of white people will get a longer sentence.

Oh, so now you admit that the law is unbiased then. Shame you weren't a bit more up-front about it.

All this talk of traitors sounds remarkably like American right-wing loonies (Macx, I'm thinking of you). Why don't you move over there? You and the Republican Party are made for one another.
quote:

But the problem is that our rulers try to bury black racism under the carpet and refuse to acknowledge the racial aspect in murder of white people.

Evidence?
quote:

That's why some people are MORE EQUAL than others.

Bollocks. Prove your assertions. You can't, can you?
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
You keep on with this phrase "More Equal". Can you explain what this means? Either someone or something is equal or not. You cannot have more or less equal, it simply doesn't exist. Were you missing the day they did maths at your school?

I've got stuff in my garden pond that is "more equal" than A2009 in any number of ways. Put it this way: there is one A2009. There is (last time I looked) one toad in my pond. That toad has it over A2009 in any number of ways.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Lord Pontivillian
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Where are our Lawyers when we need them?

They could prove, without doubt, that Anglitwat1945 is talking pure and unadulterated twaddle.

Anglitwat1945 has refused to acknowledge the fact that his biblical premises have been dis-proven by Ken, in particular, and others on this thread...but yet he still has the temerity to tell, all of, us that we are, emphatically, not Christians. I am appalled.

I am also surprised that he has not been planked as yet, but maybe this is because he provides us with too much entertainment! RedRider didn't even give this amount of entertainment....maybe that is why he only survived for 48 Hours!

Rob

><>

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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.

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JoannaP
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
Yes, I would prefer the death penalty for murder, and then there would be no dispute at all.

Could you please explain how you derive that position from the teaching of Jesus as given in the New Testament?

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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290

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How much did ya give for this slave, Eliab - I think you have bought a lemon

Angerlican2009: This kind of shit may play well to the theologically/biblically uneducated. It won't wash here where there are more PhDs to the pixel than yer average White Supremacist Site. And YOU call ken *tedious* [Killing me]

btw, what's with the *19 centuries of the magisterium* schtick - that would bring us up to 1900 I think - 14 years before the Great War forced the seeds of a major societal rethink regarding Authority in the UK at least.

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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

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JonahMan
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# 12126

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican2009:
For the record, the PDFs on race and the justice system someone just linked to showed 74 killings of whites by blacks over a 2 year period, and 22 blacks killed by whites. In other words, of the 1m black population, 1 in every 13,500 killed a white person in the period. Of the 50m white population, 1 in every 2.27m killed a black person in the period. Black people are killing white people at 168 TIMES the opposite rate. And yes, I did have to check those figures. They are so extreme they shocked even me!

And this proves what exactly? Not that black people are getting away with killing whites as these are the ones who get caught and punished. Not that blacks are treated more leniently by the system. Not anything that you are saying in fact.

Also, are there really only 1m black people in the UK? I seem to recall it was more like 14% of the population or about 8m. Which would alter your figures somewhat. However even if the ratio you calculate is correct it might be interesting to speculate on why this imbalance exists (I would imagine that socioeconomic circumstances would feature rather strongly) but it scarcely demonstrates any of the 'points' you are feebly trying to make.

--------------------
Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave

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