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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: "SPCK" bookshops
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J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spong:
Two thoughts occur to me: first, that the remaining staff should be joining a union as soon as possible so that their TUPE rights can be protected by someone who can bring some legal advice to bear.
And second, are we not going about this the wrong way when we talk about avoiding SPCK? Surely we should all make a point of going into our local SPCK shop on a regular basis and asking why they no longer appear to be stocking X, where X is a book of the sort that SPCK used to stock and doesn't stock now? I think I'm going to regularly ask for one of my namesake's books...
Here here. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
Posts: 2838 | From: Gone shoreside | Registered: Dec 2001
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HyperPilgrim
Apprentice
# 11805
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Posted
The UK Christian Bookshops Directory has launched a support fund for remaindered SPCK booksellers: Save the SPCK Booksellers — maybe if enough of us get it together we could give a group of booksellers enough support to start up with their own independent shop?
Posts: 13 | From: Between planets | Registered: Sep 2006
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J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
A few years ago I went past the Protestant Truth Society bookshop ... Nowadays its your common or garden evangelical bookshop.
Perhaps I should swallow my theological pride and pop in for a look. (Though I can't quite get over the implicit oxymoron in the shop's name. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) )
Popped in to the PTS bookshop yesterday, it was absolutely bonkers - a mix of books on Calvin, books by Jack Chick (or from his publishers) and copies of the English Churchman. Hardly what I'd expect from a 'common or garden evangelical bookshop'.
At least I now know where to go to get my fortnightly copy of the Churchman!
[I've no idea what 'Churcham' is. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ]
[ 22. November 2007, 11:23: Message edited by: J Whitgift ]
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On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
Posts: 2838 | From: Gone shoreside | Registered: Dec 2001
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Manipled Mutineer
Shipmate
# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HyperPilgrim:
The UK Christian Bookshops Directory has launched a support fund for remaindered SPCK booksellers: Save the SPCK Booksellers — maybe if enough of us get it together we could give a group of booksellers enough support to start up with their own independent shop?
This seems like an excellent cause and one that is easy to donate to. Please, if you have been an SPCK customer in the past, consider doing so.
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
I went into my local SPCK on Saturday and what struck me about it was that there were fewer books than in the past. I decided that it wasn't just an impression but that shelves which previously had been tightly packed with books now only had a few well-displayed. I didn't buy anything. They only stock pre-ordered Church Timeses and I hadn't done that.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Low Treason
Shipmate
# 11924
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
A few years ago I went past the Protestant Truth Society bookshop ... Nowadays its your common or garden evangelical bookshop.
Perhaps I should swallow my theological pride and pop in for a look. (Though I can't quite get over the implicit oxymoron in the shop's name. )
Popped in to the PTS bookshop yesterday, it was absolutely bonkers - a mix of books on Calvin, books by Jack Chick (or from his publishers) and copies of the English Churchman. Hardly what I'd expect from a 'common or garden evangelical bookshop'.
]
They couldn't supply one of our ordinands with a missal either - of any variety!
He was able to report that they were quite kind and helpful though ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
A few years ago I went past the Protestant Truth Society bookshop ... Nowadays its your common or garden evangelical bookshop.
Perhaps I should swallow my theological pride and pop in for a look. (Though I can't quite get over the implicit oxymoron in the shop's name. )
Popped in to the PTS bookshop yesterday, it was absolutely bonkers - a mix of books on Calvin, books by Jack Chick (or from his publishers) and copies of the English Churchman. Hardly what I'd expect from a 'common or garden evangelical bookshop'.
At least I now know where to go to get my fortnightly copy of the Churchman!
[I've no idea what 'Churcham' is. ]
Caveat Emptor!
If they're back on the Whore of Babylon stuff I might go and have a decko. Last time I was there it was dull, dull, dull.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
I went into my local SPCK on Saturday and what struck me about it was that there were fewer books than in the past.
I, too, have noticed this on a weekly perambulation past a local branch of SSG (formerly known as SPCK). The shelves are progressively being filled by displaying books cover outwards, rather than spine. Far fewer books per linear metre shelf run. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Q.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
And you can't buy Church Times there now as it is published by an evil librul outfit.
They print it in Norwich though, so I could probably moonlight as a proofreader...
Posts: 701 | From: Norwich | Registered: Jan 2003
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
And you can't buy Church Times there now as it is published by an evil librul outfit.
Ours still had copies for those who had pre-ordered it from what they said (though my mum has stopped doing that recently)* but they don't have any spare copies. Not sure that branch ever did though. Cambridge did, but that was a larger branch altogether.
Carys
*For entirely unrelated reasons, the Church Times were offering it free to ordinands so she took them up on the offer!
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
What's the name of that independent Christian bookshop in Edinburgh off Princes Gardens? It's attached to one of the churches, I think. I discovered it on holiday and was astounded at the breadth of stock compared to W.O. A real treasure trove. Unfortunately it'd be a wee bit expensive to hop up to Scotland every time I wanted to expand my horizons.
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
What's the name of that independent Christian bookshop in Edinburgh off Princes Gardens? It's attached to one of the churches, I think. I discovered it on holiday and was astounded at the breadth of stock compared to W.O. A real treasure trove. Unfortunately it'd be a wee bit expensive to hop up to Scotland every time I wanted to expand my horizons.
St John's Cornerstone Bookshop
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
Whilst I agree that Wesley Owen don't stock a huge number of Academic textbooks, they are certainly there. Although my nearest one, Bromley, may be an exception to the norm.
You might want to try the one in Croydon - last time I browsed there they had quite a few decent academic books - if, as you say, you can stomach the 'Left Behind'-type nonsense and pop-theology du jour that also sits on their shelves.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
Whilst I agree that Wesley Owen don't stock a huge number of Academic textbooks, they are certainly there. Although my nearest one, Bromley, may be an exception to the norm.
You might want to try the one in Croydon - last time I browsed there they had quite a few decent academic books - if, as you say, you can stomach the 'Left Behind'-type nonsense and pop-theology du jour that also sits on their shelves.
They stock one or two academic titles, as I recall, but not many (I think they're stock of academic books may actually have dropped if that's possible). If you want academic books then you're better off going into London (Mowbrays, Church House etc.) Or going online.
(If you're in Salisbury then the Sarum College Bookshop, in the Cathedral Close is well worth a visit. It also has an excellent, well stocked second-hand section!)
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On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
Posts: 2838 | From: Gone shoreside | Registered: Dec 2001
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Dave Walker
Contributing Editor
# 14
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Posted
The St Stephen the Great Trust, owners of the former SPCK shops have posted a video about their activities which makes for quite interesting viewing.
The comments section to the video is also the one place that the Brewers are interacting with the outside world. Again, very interesting, particularly when you work out who some of the commenters are.
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Cartoon blog / @davewalker
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Aristibule
Shipmate
# 12356
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Posted
Well - that was an odd video. I'm not sure what Byzantine rite with a Middle Eastern accent has to do with Britain's heritage? I'm Orthodox - and I'm concerned by what I've seen so far.
On the other hand - those who say it only has to do with demographics changing in Britain are missing the point. The changing demographics are symptomatic (not just in Britain, but elsewhere) of a failure of various churches to be 'salt and light'.
Posts: 324 | From: South | Registered: Feb 2007
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
I don't know what's been going on behind the scenes of the merger, but I feel great regret at what's happened to the old SPCK set-up. To hear of long established shops who have served churches, clergy and general public, losing their staff and it would seem some of their real attraction as a spiritual/theological resource is a tremendous shame.
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
I recall with fondness the SPCK and collecting antiquarian books from them when I was a student(mostly eighteenth and nineteenth century books on architecture).
At the end of the day the problem, which affects all bookshops and not just SPCK, is that people do not buy enough books. It would be reasonable for an educated person to spend 10% of their salary on books and at death to have accumulated a reasonable library which then goes back into circulation with the booksellers or is inherited by a relative or, if the purchases have been unwise, is tipped.
Otherwise it will be a few motheaten-paperbacks and a lot of handwringing re "whither the bookshop?".
Aumbry
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
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Posted
Aumbry, I'm trying to do just that, though I can hear my Bank manager and postman scream "No more, no more!!"
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On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
Posts: 2838 | From: Gone shoreside | Registered: Dec 2001
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
J Whitgift said: quote:
postman
This does not sound like a word from a man who buys his books from a bookshop but from the catalogue of a dealer or, horror of horrors, over the interweb.
Aumbry
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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Plato's cat
Shipmate
# 11158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
We're spoilt here in London having at least 4 top quality Christian bookshops:
- Mowbrays (inside Hatchards)
- Church House Book Shop, Westminster
- SPCK, Westminster
- St. Paul's bookshop, Westminster Cathedral.
However, this is going to be a blow for smaller towns/cities where it's the only descent academic Christian retailer. (I'm discounting Wesley Owen under that heading because they tend not to sell academic books or Catholic/Orthodox material.)
Having just looked at the SPCK online website St. Stephen the Great Charitable Trust are certainly playing up their Orthodox links. In particular note that there's now a 'top 10 Orthodox books' at the top right-hand side of the page and various links to St Stephen's.
Whilst I prefer Church House bookshop to the SPCK one, I like their secondhand books section and their eclectic mix of titles. It will be a huge blow if the Orthodox link turns the bookshops into ones which simply sell Orthodox material. It will leave Anglicans and other denominations high and dry in terms of bookselling resources. Whether this will actually happen remains to be seen, but it can't help if SPCK remove their sponsorship of the shops.
Hi
there is something interesting (or disturbing - depends on you perspective) going on in London bookshops.
One the one hand Christian bookshops are closing down - in the last year Wesley Owen in Wigmore Street closed, and the fantastic Mowbrays, which occupied an entire floor in Margaret Street is now a shadow of its former glory in a small room in Hatchards.
On the other hand, in central London where I live there are four Islamic bookshops north of Baker Street and literally dozens more in central London. The religious demography of London is changing fast.
Plato's Cat
Posts: 715 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2006
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Yeah right .... and Orthodox Christian Books Ltd, (nothing to do with Brewer) of which I am Company Secretary continues to grow, now having established a base of operations in the US as well as the UK. But let's not play who has the biggest ***** shall we?
Anyway, back to the OP. Listen if you can to the Sunday programme on Radio 4 between 7 and 8 am. They are doing a piece on Brewer and SPCK and they have interviewed him, me and others. (Oh and I have said something about Brewer and Islam as well Plato's Cat. Shame you can't be as generous with us as I have been - genuinely - about you).
I'm not speaking about SPCK (no involvement) but I am mentioning our community in Poole where Brewer engineered a change of bishop effectively depriving us of the building. In this he consulted neither the community, its priest nor our Dean.
He claimed that our bishop (who died shortly afterwards) agreed to this. Strange that, since our bishop sought to get an explanation of this development from the other bishop concerned after we alerted him to this.
Why would have tried to do this if he had already agreed to the arrangement? Is it conceivable that he would have transferred one of his own parishes to another bishop without informing or consulting the people concerned? Why would he do that? I am at a loss to understand, (since we all knew our bishop and his integrity). Unfortunately our bishop died before any of us could find out any more.
Sound familiar?
Let's put it this way. Orthodox in this country now would rather see a redundant church become a warehouse than be acquired by this Trust. I spoke to a priest who spoke in these terms tonight.
[ 14. December 2007, 23:09: Message edited by: Father Gregory ]
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Plato's Cat
J Whitgift listed the top 4 bookshops he was familiar with. I can immediately add The CTS Bookshop by Westminster Cathedral, the Padre Pio Bookshop in Vauxhall Bridge Road, and St Paul's Multimedia in Kensington High Street. That's just the Catholic ones I've popped into. It's not accurate to say Christian bookshops are all closing down while Islamic ones are springing up. Islam is not taking over, and if it is thriving, that is mostly by immigration rather than by conversion. Extrapolating some sort of Islamification based on the SPCK's troubles is an odd deduction.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
J Whitgift is absolutely right about the incredible shrinking Mowbrays - the fact is that it is now merely a slightly extended version of Waterstones' standard "Mind Body Spirit" zone.
Aumbry
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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Plato's cat
Shipmate
# 11158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Plato's Cat
J Whitgift listed the top 4 bookshops he was familiar with. I can immediately add The CTS Bookshop by Westminster Cathedral, the Padre Pio Bookshop in Vauxhall Bridge Road, and St Paul's Multimedia in Kensington High Street. That's just the Catholic ones I've popped into. It's not accurate to say Christian bookshops are all closing down while Islamic ones are springing up. Islam is not taking over, and if it is thriving, that is mostly by immigration rather than by conversion. Extrapolating some sort of Islamification based on the SPCK's troubles is an odd deduction.
Yes I had overlooked those bookshops. My observations are purely subjective.
But over say the past 10 years many new Islamic bookshops have opened up in central London, and my guess is that they easily outnumber the established Christian ones.
Btw, and this is off topic, an increasing number of English people are becoming Muslims. At Regents Park Mosque it is a frequent occurance
PC
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R.A.M.
Shipmate
# 7390
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Posted
If there really is better provision for islamic books than Christian ones. (BTW how many books on Islam or for Muslims does your local Waterstones, Borders or Blackwells carry? All my local ones have a small but reasonable Christianity section, and three korans, as well as the dreaded "spirituality" secction)
But even if this is true, so what, what kind of point are you trying to make? The only one I would make from this information is that either, the ownership of Islamic books is more important to Muslims than it is to Christians, either for their symbolic worth or because Muslims devote more time to study. If the latter is the case then this should be a wakeup call to the rest of us, if Muslims can fit in more study in their lives, why can't Christians? Or perhaps Islamic books are harder to find without devoted stores (what I try and hint at above)? Or perhaps you are indulging, consciously or otherwise in some sort of scare mongering.
Assuming the latter is not the case I find your point opaque. Perhaps you could clarify.
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Formerly Real Ale Methodist
Back after prolonged absence...
Posts: 1584 | From: (Sunshine on) Leith | Registered: Jun 2004
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
Oooh Brewer has been directly involved in Poole has he?! I'm privileged...although I didn't know we had an orthodox church (or an SPCK come to think of it - I thought the nearest was the lovely one in Winchester).
Hmmmmm..... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Let's hope that this Orthodox church lasts longer than the previous one.
Orthodox is as-one-does as well as as-one-is.
In medieval England they were called "Lords of the Manor."
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Plato's cat
Shipmate
# 11158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Father Gregory:
Facts, figures? Comparative statistics with baptisms / conversions? Show your hand.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK and Europe see Muslims in Europe This, I believe, accounts for the dramatic rise in bookshops in London.
As for conversions of white English people to Islam, I'm not sure of the statistics, but as I say, anecdotal evidence in London suggests a huge increase of 'reverts' to Islam, of whom I am one.
PC
Posts: 715 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2006
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Plato's cat
Shipmate
# 11158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Real Ale Methodist:
If there really is better provision for islamic books than Christian ones. (BTW how many books on Islam or for Muslims does your local Waterstones, Borders or Blackwells carry? All my local ones have a small but reasonable Christianity section, and three korans, as well as the dreaded "spirituality" secction)
But even if this is true, so what, what kind of point are you trying to make? The only one I would make from this information is that either, the ownership of Islamic books is more important to Muslims than it is to Christians, either for their symbolic worth or because Muslims devote more time to study. If the latter is the case then this should be a wakeup call to the rest of us, if Muslims can fit in more study in their lives, why can't Christians? Or perhaps Islamic books are harder to find without devoted stores (what I try and hint at above)? Or perhaps you are indulging, consciously or otherwise in some sort of scare mongering.
Assuming the latter is not the case I find your point opaque. Perhaps you could clarify.
I'm certainly not indulging in scare mongering! As a Muslim I visit many of these bookshops quite frequently. My experience of Islamic books in the bigs stores like Foyles, Blackwells and Waterstones is generally postive: I picked up some excellent Islamic books a few years ago at Waterstones and they lead to my conversion to Islam - so I'm not complaining.
PC
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
Could it not be that the 'brown paper bag' nature of some Islamist publications means that Islamic Extremists can't use Amazon like everyone else?
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Plato's cat
Shipmate
# 11158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Call me Numpty:
Could it not be that the 'brown paper bag' nature of some Islamist publications means that Islamic Extremists can't use Amazon like everyone else?
'brown paper bag nature of some Islamist publications'
What on earth are you refering to?
PC
Posts: 715 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2006
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
Oooh Brewer has been directly involved in Poole has he?! I'm privileged...although I didn't know we had an orthodox church (or an SPCK come to think of it - I thought the nearest was the lovely one in Winchester).
Hmmmmm.....
Yes - they took over St. Osmund's Parkstone - a former anglo-catholic bastion but the building had structural problems so the congregation moved in with St. Peter's and this orthodox group (? sect?) took on the building.
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Plato's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Call me Numpty:
Could it not be that the 'brown paper bag' nature of some Islamist publications means that Islamic Extremists can't use Amazon like everyone else?
'brown paper bag nature of some Islamist publications'
What on earth are you refering to?
Illicit publications in Britain have traditionally been sold 'under the counter' in brown paper bags. I would imagine that extremist literature is sold in a similar way. Not through Amazon which is where lots of Christians buy their books.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Plato's cat
Shipmate
# 11158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Call me Numpty:
quote:
Originally posted by Plato's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Call me Numpty:
Could it not be that the 'brown paper bag' nature of some Islamist publications means that Islamic Extremists can't use Amazon like everyone else?
'brown paper bag nature of some Islamist publications'
What on earth are you refering to?
Illicit publications in Britain have traditionally been sold 'under the counter' in brown paper bags. I would imagine that extremist literature is sold in a similar way. Not through Amazon which is where lots of Christians buy their books.
Well, I'm not aware that 'extremist' literature (whatever that my be) is sold in that manner in mosques or Islamic bookshops in London.
PC
Posts: 715 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2006
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R.A.M.
Shipmate
# 7390
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Plato's cat:
I'm certainly not indulging in scare mongering! As a Muslim I visit many of these bookshops quite frequently. My experience of Islamic books in the bigs stores like Foyles, Blackwells and Waterstones is generally postive: I picked up some excellent Islamic books a few years ago at Waterstones and they lead to my conversion to Islam - so I'm not complaining.
PC
My apologies, but I have seen the same line trolled out before with that intent. People bring up the success of Islam for no obvious reason, usually it means it is something I am supposed to be concerned about, as you can see, it does not bother me.
I had always assumed that the proliferation of Islamic bookstores was largely to do not with the demographic spread of Islam, but the niche nature of the publications. That is to say books on Islamic subjects are hard to find, so specialist bookstores trade in them. In the same way that speciality food stores fill in the gaps that the big chains pass over.
The growth of Islam in the west is still largely a demographic phenomena, rather than a case of "true" conversion. Nonetheless I myself know a few converts, usually they have come to Islam through a partner rather than approaching it "cold" so to speak.
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Formerly Real Ale Methodist
Back after prolonged absence...
Posts: 1584 | From: (Sunshine on) Leith | Registered: Jun 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
The latest radio article on this issue. You'll have to scroll through a bit to come to it as it's audio. Click on 'Sunday' in the box marked 'Most Popular shows'.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
I heard Fr Gregory this morning!
IMO the SPCK (?American) person wasn't really understanding what was going on, nor did he seem to be acting (IMO) sensibly...
Did you all listen then, or was it just me and Anselmina?
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25
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Posted
Yeah I heard it, good to hear some of my former workmates on there, and our Exeter resignation got a special mention!
Confirmed to me that the new owners of the shops live in a fantasy world far away from realities.
Posts: 6009 | From: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. | Registered: May 2001
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R.A.M.
Shipmate
# 7390
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Posted
I listened.
Basically it sounds like the owners have no interest in SPCK as a chain of bookstores, but merely as property for their mission to purchase new churches.
The mission would be admirable (sort of*), if it didn't have to involve them destroying a valuable company, and walking over hundreds of employers. They should have been honest from the start and said they intended to dismantle the SPCK chain.
* As Fr Gregory pointed out on t'wireless, the idea of saving a church from becoming an Islamic study center is an uncomfortable one. Especially since the only reason that was given for it potentially falling into Islamic hands was because it was in Manningham. I would have been far happier if they were saving a church from being a carpet rite. Or if they had talked about the desire for churches not to fall out of use as churches. I myself am just happy to see a church being used to serve the spiritual needs of its community, even if that means conversion to Islamic usage.
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Formerly Real Ale Methodist
Back after prolonged absence...
Posts: 1584 | From: (Sunshine on) Leith | Registered: Jun 2004
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Away from SPCK for a moment.
Brewer has this crazy idea that all he needs to do is buy a few churches, open them and people will flock in when they see "good ole time relijun."
Now that might work in the American south but he completely misapprehends British and European religious culture in thinking in this way.
It is also a completely unOrthodox way of going about things. The community gathers first, you hire premises and then much later you seek a building with an existing congregation that can sustain it. The community seeks a building not the building the congregation. Moreover Brewer seems to regard his hoped for "Network of 47" as a personal franchise. How very, very odd. Well, completely unacceptable actually from an Orthodox point of view.
What we are seeing perhaps with the SPCK Bookshops (or whatever they must be called now) is a particular style of American "hands-on" management." That doesn't go down well here .... except on certain TV reality shows!
Let's hope that the lawyers don't get too much work next year.
The moral of the story?
"Beware of Texans bearing gifts."
I apologise to the great inhabitants of the Lone Star state for the generality of that literary allusion.
[ 16. December 2007, 14:20: Message edited by: Father Gregory ]
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
He's an American? That explains a lot...
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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.
Posts: 11285 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
Oooh Brewer has been directly involved in Poole has he?! I'm privileged...although I didn't know we had an orthodox church (or an SPCK come to think of it - I thought the nearest was the lovely one in Winchester).
Hmmmmm.....
Yes - they took over St. Osmund's Parkstone - a former anglo-catholic bastion but the building had structural problems so the congregation moved in with St. Peter's and this orthodox group (? sect?) took on the building.
THanks for that LEo (and how do you know that ?!?! Are you secretly living down here too?!)
I know St. Osmund's church, just didn't realise it had become Orthodox. Its not central Poole but definately still Poole. I went to St.Peter's Carol Service and it was really lovely. Its quite "high" church but still accesible to someone like me ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Beautiful!
You learn a new thing every day!
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I used to live in Dorset and we went to S. Osmund's for GSS (servers' guild) jamborees - if it were still Anglican it would probably be forward in faith whereas S. Peter's is probably Affirming Catholic.
I heard the broadcast about SPCK - the American spokesperson seemed to be out of touch, if not telling downright lies. He claimed that they have widened their stock - bristol hasn't, unless you count a few Orthodox books.
He claims that pay and conditions of service haven't worsened yet was contradicted by our former manager here, whom I have known for several years and trust.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pokrov
Shipmate
# 11515
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Posted
Good to hear your real life voice Father Gregory!
Good points, well made.
As for the Brewers...what a pair of loons! Totally deluded. I only hope some employment tribunal gives them a 'wake up call'. Although I doubt it would make them see sense.
Very sorry story - SPCK trustees have a lot to say sorry for...
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Most Holy Theotokos pray for us!
Posts: 1469 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Ferdinand
Apprentice
# 12438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by andreas1984:
He's an American? That explains a lot...
And thus are 300 million people put in the same little box and all insulted equally in 7 words.
I hope you're trying to make a joke, Andreas.
Stereotyping Americans is no better than saying "All Muslims are Terrorists".
Ferdinand
Posts: 2 | Registered: Mar 2007
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
It explains the bizarre idea that buying unused churches would somehow fill them with faithful... I don't think Europe and America are similar as far as the extent to which the people cares for religion is concerned.
[ 16. December 2007, 21:03: Message edited by: andreas1984 ]
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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.
Posts: 11285 | Registered: Apr 2005
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