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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: Second openly gay bishop in ECUSA (very likely)
gianbattista
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This just in: The Diocese of Los Angeles yesterday elected Rev. Mo. Mary Glasspool a suffragan bishop. She's still got to be confirmed by the General Convention, but my uneducated guess is that she will be.

Speculation, warranted or otherwise, about potential impacts?

[ 06. May 2010, 19:17: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Zach82
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I predict that someone on this very thread will accuse the diocese of Los Angeles of electing her just because she's gay.

Zach

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Stoker
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More bad news for the Church of Jesus Christ, lots of media guff and wind, lots of dicussion, lots of confused unchurched people wondering what the issue is and best of all.........

No one from any church getting the message of the Gospel across, reinforcing the beliefs of most people that the church is dull and irrelevant run by well spoken middle class men who wear dresses.

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Divine Outlaw
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Whilst an Anglican, I was constantly confused as to why the bedroom activities of Episcopalian bishops were the topic of considerably more debate than the credal orthodoxy of Episcopalian bishops. I am no longer an Anglican, but am still confused.

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daronmedway
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I predict that someone on this very thread will accuse the diocese of Los Angeles of electing her just because she's gay.

Zach

That'll be me then.
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Angloid
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[Snore]

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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Under the circumstances good, then. It should convince the rest of the Anglican world that the American Church isn't going to change and won't be dictated to.
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Qoheleth.

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quote:
Originally posted by Stoker:
..well spoken middle class men who wear dresses.

whilst in the link from the OP:
quote:
... elected a lesbian as assistant bishop ...
Why not:
quote:
More bad news for the Church of Jesus Christ, lots of media guff and wind, lots of discussion, lots of confused unchurched people wondering what the issue is, but best of all...

[...] challenging the beliefs of most people that the church is dull and irrelevant, run by well spoken middle class men who wear dresses, by electing a partnered gay woman.

?

[ 06. December 2009, 18:52: Message edited by: Qoheleth. ]

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leo
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The rampantly homophobic bishops in Uganda and Nigeria are obsessed with gay man - this bishop is only (!) a woman
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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Is it true tha Queen Victoria refused to believe that such a thing as lesbianism was even a possibility?
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the coiled spring
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Considering what a miserable bunch the majority of mateys are it seems strange a gay one just pops up. Will they lead a merry dance round the altar and sing cheerful songs so that we all become gay people. Or will after a time become just a miserable as all the others.

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Trudy Scrumptious

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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Is it true tha Queen Victoria refused to believe that such a thing as lesbianism was even a possibility?

Yeah, but only because she was ugly, and chicks rarely hit on her.

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JoannaP
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quote:
Originally posted by gianbattista:
This just in: The Diocese of Los Angeles yesterday elected Rev. Mo. Mary Glasspool a suffragan bishop. She's still got to be confirmed by the General Convention, but my uneducated guess is that she will be.

How much of a brouhaha would it cause if she was not confirmed? How often does that happen?

Andrew Brown's take on ++Rowan's position is interesting.

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Spawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Under the circumstances good, then. It should convince the rest of the Anglican world that the American Church isn't going to change and won't be dictated to.

I recall Adrian Hastings in his biography of ++ Runcie presciently suggesting that the Anglican Communion faced three dangers in terms of the fragmentation which the 102nd Archbishop feared. Firstly, there was an authority deficit. Secondly, he saw problems in the emergence of a powerful 'global south' bloc. Finally, he identified the avowed independence of TEC as a threat to the interdependent Communion in which ++Runcie believed.

I think we know that TEC won't be steered off its course and won't be 'dictated' to (though I seriously don't think that has happened). The way I see it is that TEC had the choice to build or break the communion and sadly chose the latter course. Unfortunately the fault lines which emerge out of this choice lie within the other western provinces also. A pox on TEC.

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Zwingli
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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Is it true tha Queen Victoria refused to believe that such a thing as lesbianism was even a possibility?

IIRC she refused to consider making female homosexual activity illegal because she couldn't imagine what two women could get up to in bed.

Which only goes to illustrate just how ignorant and prejudiced so many people were in the dark ages, before Google and internet pornography... [Biased]

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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++Rowan is now going to succeed in once and for all alienating those members of the American Church who still had any time for him (which wouldn't include me, in any event).
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Spawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
++Rowan is now going to succeed in once and for all alienating those members of the American Church who still had any time for him (which wouldn't include me, in any event).

I think the two-fingered salute gave that away. There's no point in having a Communion is there when you're alienated just because you disagree with someone. Idiots.
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Hairy Biker
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The rampantly homophobic bishops in Uganda and Nigeria are obsessed with gay man - this bishop is only (!) a woman

Yes, I'm a little confused about the "gay" angle here. I thought the Anglicans were still arguing about women bishops, but this one seems to have slipped through, diverting attention by being "gay".

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Sober Preacher's Kid

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Ah, but this is The Episcopal Church (of the United States of America (and some other countries too)). The most liberal jurisdiction in the Anglicanism from my outsider's POV. The debates over the place of women in TEC are pretty much over.

TEC is a bit of an oddity in the Anglican world in that its origins lie more in Scotland than in England and it is surrounded by other more evo-friendly churches like the Baptists and Presbyterians. TEC's problem is that it just doesn't speak the same idiom as other Anglican jurisdictions, again as LSK summarized for me.

Still, I'm not Anglican so I may be a few miles wide of the mark here.

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Matt Black

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If TEC want to 'do their own thing', then fine. I'm puzzled though why they want to continue to regard themselves as part of the Anglican Communion; ISTM that this is a classic case of wanting to have their cake and eat it. Sorry, but real life don't work like that.

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Custard
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quote:
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
Whilst an Anglican, I was constantly confused as to why the bedroom activities of Episcopalian bishops were the topic of considerably more debate than the credal orthodoxy of Episcopalian bishops. I am no longer an Anglican, but am still confused.

Inclined to agree. I suspect it's because it's harder to get round a clear lifestyle issue than a doctrine where there's sneaky ways of wording things and people who say different things to different people.

Admittedly, that's a suspicion based on the premise that it's better to be generous where there's the chance to do so...

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Geneviève

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To do the tired argument one more time: TEC passed B062 at General Convention 2006 in order to appease the homophobic provinces of the Anglican Communion and to indicate the serious desire to come to the table one more time over something that has been debated for what--30 some years? We got shat on, pure and simple. Primates being as rude and demanding as possible to ++Katherine.
So, this General Convention, TEC said--IMO--ok, we've tried to do all you want, and it didn't make any difference. We will be who we are. And who we are is,overall, a church that believed all people are made in the image of God.

BTW, The Rev. Canon Mary Glasspool, from the diocese of Maryland, is well-respected on her home ground. She is competent on a whole lot of fronts. And, to be clear, while she has not hidden the fact that she is a lesbian, she has not made her sexual orientation an issue in her ministry.

At this point, I personally to really care what the rest of the Communion thinks. There are a great many more issues of importance in following the gospel than sexual orientation.

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FreeJack
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The issue is not what TEC believes, but whether they are prepared to show any self-restraint for the sake of the Communion. At least as far as one diocese is concerned the answer is no.

This is a self-excluding issue from the main instruments of the Anglican Communion. Even the more liberal proponents of women bishops and a rethink on homosexuality in the CofE are going to have to admit that this is TEC going off on one.

In order to keep some sort of Communion together this arguably forces +Canterbury towards parts of Africa, South America and Sydney than he would have liked. Thus pushing one of the world's main proponents for third way reformed catholicism towards conservativism.

So while advancing the cause of women's rights and gay rights at home, TEC are almost certainly setting it back in the rest of the world.

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Dave Marshall

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Only if you define Communion as what the most conservative Churches demand. My understanding is that's a recent innovation, one that Rowan Williams and others are attempting to present as normative and 'how it ought to be', but that the Instruments of Communion have no authority (at least, not yet) to impose.
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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Ah yes, ++Rowan has been so effective in challenging homophobia and misogyny abroad!The man is almost as full of it as the pope. TEC's main, rightful priority in terms of social gospel is to the peoples of its own jurisdiction. I'm not interested in being in an ecclesial organisation with a bunch of reactionaries headed up by a Quisling. If the AC is a federation of independent provinces, fine -- but that doesn't impose on us the obligation to compromise with the objective evils, prevarications and complicity of other provinces.
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Grammatica
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Marshall:
Only if you define Communion as what the most conservative Churches demand. My understanding is that's a recent innovation, one that Rowan Williams and others are attempting to present as normative and 'how it ought to be', but that the Instruments of Communion have no authority (at least, not yet) to impose.

Agree. Why, in fact, should the most conservative, anxious, frightened, etc. members of the Communion get to decide the positions for everyone else on all the issues?

This whole thing has reminded me of the really bad political meetings of twenty and thirty years ago, the ones where the most demonstrative, demanding, noisiest, wrongheadedly threatened and explosive members set every agenda and made every decision, while everyone else always had to be tiptoeing around them. You'd sit there in terror, hoping that the next thing you said or the next sneeze or the next turning of your head wasn't going to be the thing that set them off and sent the meeting spinning off into two hours of humiliating breakdown. Again.

Genevieve's post was really interesting, and tallies with a sense that I have also. I think the US Episcopal Church really has had it with this stuff, and is ready to move on, with whomever is willing to move on with us. My understanding is that quite a few will be willing, and then we also have the ELCA, the Church of Sweden, and a few other ecumenical partners. There are plenty of churches in the USA that won't admit gay and lesbian people to membership or communion, so those who feel strongly about this issue have many choices, many other denominations to which they can turn.

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PataLeBon
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
If TEC want to 'do their own thing', then fine. I'm puzzled though why they want to continue to regard themselves as part of the Anglican Communion; ISTM that this is a classic case of wanting to have their cake and eat it. Sorry, but real life don't work like that.

I think that General Convention understood that we very well could be kicked out, and that most of the Communion seemed to want us gone before now anyway.

And historically, we came from the Anglican Church. And for most of my life, that's what I've been taught. It's only been the past 10 years or so that people have talked about an "Anglican Communion" in TEC. So for us that is a new thing, and it's becoming clear to some of us that it does not seem to be a good thing.

What is the purpose of having an Anglican Communion anyway? To me it just seem that Anglicans are trying to keep up with the Roman Catholics and Orthodox. And the purpose of that seems to elude me...

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Zach82
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I am with the likes of LSK and Gramm. The unity that the conservatives are demanding never existed in the first place. We can hardly mourn something that never was. If the conservatives want to found an Anglican papacy, let's leave them to it.

Zach

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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
What is the purpose of having an Anglican Communion anyway?

Keeping ties with a shared heritage.

quote:
To me it just seem that Anglicans are trying to keep up with the Roman Catholics and Orthodox.
Roman Catholics perhaps. The Orthodox are much better at understanding the concept of bottom line essentials of doctrine.

The fact that the communion did not see a tremendous schism over the ordination of women underscores the true discrimination and cultural bias behind the current troubles in the AC. People can't be faulted for sticking by their opinions, but the AC by nature is not all about the Archbishop of Canterbury enforcing doctrinal unity as some sort of English pope.

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Spike

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quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Is it true tha Queen Victoria refused to believe that such a thing as lesbianism was even a possibility?

IIRC she refused to consider making female homosexual activity illegal because she couldn't imagine what two women could get up to in bed.

Not true. No monarch since Charles I has considered interfering with an act of parliament.

If she had actually refused to consider this legislation there would have been a revolution. It's just another urban myth.

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gianbattista
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quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
How much of a brouhaha would it cause if she was not confirmed? How often does that happen?

To your first question, quite a lot. My understanding is that only one bishop-elect has ever been voted down at General Convention (that was James de Koven, over the issue of churchmanship, I know not what year, but donkeys ages ago). I also believe it unlikely IMHO as the post +Gene Robinson exodus (albeit modest) has thinned the ranks of likely opponents.

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Sir Pellinore
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I have a suspicion events in ECUSA will follow the normal course to its logical conclusion.

There is something very similar to the euphoria that preceded the American Revolution here.

ECUSA seem to be no different to Sydney and Nigeria in that they have decided God is on their side and they are going to follow the Holy Spirit.

There are a reasonable number of Anglicans in the middle of this course of events who will simply wonder why the two extremes want to be part of a Communion.

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gianbattista
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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Is it true tha Queen Victoria refused to believe that such a thing as lesbianism was even a possibility?

IIRC she refused to consider making female homosexual activity illegal because she couldn't imagine what two women could get up to in bed.

Not true. No monarch since Charles I has considered interfering with an act of parliament.

If she had actually refused to consider this legislation there would have been a revolution. It's just another urban myth.

I read years ago in a book by Richard Davenport-Hines that a late 19C MP by the name of Henry Labouchere, in an effort to sink the bill, introduced an amendment to a revision of the criminal code that defined sodomy as an exclusively male act. To his chagrin, the amendment was adopted and the bill passed. Apparently, in any case, the common law always had a blind spot, defining "sodomy" as "unnatural intercourse of man with woman, or man with man, or man or woman with beast."

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Zach82
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Actually, two candidates have failed the confirmation vote recently- South Carolina and Northern Michigan. In both instances, there were some pretty grave irregularities in how their elections went down

The confirmation has only ever been a vote affirming that the candidate's election was fair and all in order. It's not an opportunity for the Church, or the Primate of Uganda, to veto a diocese's decision.

Zach

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Anglican_Brat
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I'm trying to understand the arguments from conservatives.

Has TEC ever expressed a Holier than thou attitude of liberalism towards the African and Asian churches? I know John Spong wrote that nasty piece a few years ago, attacking African and Asian Anglicans as superstitious and backward. But Spong is retired. I have yet to read anything official from the TEC on this matter.

We all know that many of the Southern Churches are more conservative than either TEC or the Anglican Church of Canada. But I have never heard a Bishop from North America virulently attack the Church of Africa or Asia in the same manner. I'm willing to be corrected on this.

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Sir Pellinore
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Actually, two candidates have failed the confirmation vote recently- South Carolina and Northern Michigan. In both instances, there were some pretty grave irregularities in how their elections went down

The confirmation has only ever been a vote affirming that the candidate's election was fair and all in order. It's not an opportunity for the Church, or the Primate of Uganda, to veto a diocese's decision.

Zach

As far as I am aware there appear to have been no technical irregularities about this election.

I think you misunderstand the concern of some in sister churches that confirmation will cause further disharmony and enhance what is a de facto schism.

The message to ECUSA from those trying to steer a middle course between them and Sydney et sim seems to translate:
'Do what you want but bear the consequences.'

How simple do you want it? [Help]

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Well...

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gianbattista
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Actually, two candidates have failed the confirmation vote recently- South Carolina and Northern Michigan. In both instances, there were some pretty grave irregularities in how their elections went down

The confirmation has only ever been a vote affirming that the candidate's election was fair and all in order. It's not an opportunity for the Church, or the Primate of Uganda, to veto a diocese's decision.

Zach

I stand corrected on the first point, and I am sure you are right, in principle, on the second -- but how realistic is it to expect that the opportunity of a confirmation vote won't ever be (mis)used as a means of scotching a diocesan election on political grounds? I don't recall +Gene Robinson's opponents going on about misprinted ballots a la Broward County!

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Zach82
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quote:
How simple do you want it?
The thing is, we are more than happy to be in communion with conservatives. It's the conservatives that won't have us. Yet it's all our fault somehow. Quite frankly, I don't see why we should stick around for the abuse any more.

quote:
I stand corrected on the first point, and I am sure you are right, in principle, on the second -- but how realistic is it to expect that the opportunity of a confirmation vote won't ever be (mis)used as a means of scotching a diocesan election on political grounds? I don't recall +Gene Robinson's opponents going on about misprinted ballots a la Broward County!
Nothing, I suppose. Thankfully, recent conservative attempts to misuse it for their own ends have failed.

Zach

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PataLeBon
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
What is the purpose of having an Anglican Communion anyway?

Keeping ties with a shared heritage.
Which simply understanding that we come from a common background would suffice. I still don't understand how coming from the same original church means we have to still agree. My brother and I come from the same parents and we don't agree on the same church.

quote:
quote:
To me it just seem that Anglicans are trying to keep up with the Roman Catholics and Orthodox.
Roman Catholics perhaps. The Orthodox are much better at understanding the concept of bottom line essentials of doctrine.

Not a good reason. That seems to simply be pride talking, and that's not a good thing.

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ToujoursDan

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She isn't even the 2nd openly gay bishop in the TEC. She is third or forth. Otis Charles and Oliver Garver (also of LA) were openly gay; both came out after they had been bishops for many years, with no international waves made whatsoever.

The brouhaha seems to be solely based on going through the process openly gay.

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Augustine the Aleut
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Actually, two candidates have failed the confirmation vote recently- South Carolina and Northern Michigan. In both instances, there were some pretty grave irregularities in how their elections went down

The confirmation has only ever been a vote affirming that the candidate's election was fair and all in order. It's not an opportunity for the Church, or the Primate of Uganda, to veto a diocese's decision.

Zach

I think that you will find that Bl. James De Koven was denied the consents to his election to Illinois in 1875 on the grounds of his ritualistic tendencies. I believe there was another denial on theological grounds as well, but the details escape me.

As well, I am not sure if Bp Lawrence's election in South Carolina featured grave irregularities; I gather that objectors focussed on his presumed lack of loyalty to the Episcopal Church. Some of the consents suffered from defects of format, but at the time I felt that the objections were over-technical and had a whiff of intellectual dishonesty. Mileage may vary.

The Northern Michigan election gave rise to concern in that there was only one nomination, much as in the good old days in Albania, but several of the denials were on the grounds of the candidate's lack of clarity on his relationship with Buddhism. I think that this was a bit of a bum rap, as they say in the east end of Ottawa, but his confused explanations did not help him.

Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zach82
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The election itself was all according to canons in South Carolina, I suppose, but he failed to do any of the post election paperwork necessary to get his confirmation.

I wouldn't be surprised if the confirmation vote had been abused in the past.

Zach

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
The issue is not what TEC believes, but whether they are prepared to show any self-restraint for the sake of the Communion

With all Christian respect, slag the communion and slag the Archbishop of Cantebury for being a useless bastard of a primate.

Mazel tov to the Dicocese of Los Angeles, where at approximately the time I was born it was impossible for a woman, let alone a dyke, let alone a dyke with my Christian name to be ordained, to consecrate a woman, let alone a dyke, let alone a dyke with my Christian name as Bishop Suffaragen.

May God bless herself, as herself is gonna need it. May the prayers of the faithful queers, united with the prayers of the faithful cisgendered and faithful heteronormative, be pleasing in the sight of the Lord.

As I head a Bishie Suffragen once opine, the Bishie part of the title is nice and all, but the Suffragen is the part that really means anything.

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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
FreeJack
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It is a shame that TEC did not withdraw from the Anglican Communion first, rather than this 'suicide by +Cantaur' approach.

It is surely clear that the Anglican Communion does not want TEC, and TEC does not want the Anglican Communion, at least not on any terms realistically available.

A TEC outside the Anglican Communion would at least be acting with complete internal integrity in its actions.

I don't honestly see what those who are criticising +Rowan really think he could do differently that he isn't.

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Zach82
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I will repeat, most of us are more than happy to be with the Anglican Communion. It is the Communion which doesn't want us. I am rather sick of being blamed for refusing to be bullied into line by Akinola and gang.

Zach

[ 07. December 2009, 03:16: Message edited by: Zach82 ]

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Louise
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So in Uganda various people including Anglican bishops are suggesting life sentences for people like the gay and lesbian shipmates you all know on these boards, and what has been the Archbishop's response to that? Sssssh! Be vewy vewy qwiet! We are doing top secret diplomacy with the homophobes. We can't possibly say that jailing and executing gay people as part of a witch-hunt and moral panic is a bad thing! What do you think we are? A church that might possibly have something to say about something that immoral?

But a female bishop who might possibly be getting her bits jollied by someone not attached to a penis? Oh the humanity! We cannot have the abomination of lady fingers on an episcopal clitoris! We cannot stay in communion with these people! They climax the wrong way under the duvet!

Words do not even begin to capture how screwed up that is.

L.

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Augustine the Aleut
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The election itself was all according to canons in South Carolina, I suppose, but he failed to do any of the post election paperwork necessary to get his confirmation.

I wouldn't be surprised if the confirmation vote had been abused in the past.

Zach

IIRC, the paperwork supplied by diocesan standing committees was done, but with defects in format (i.e. faxed or e-mailed, or with certain signatures missing), all remedied after a second election. However, I think that this was a subtext, and the real remedy was provided by Bp. Lawrence's professions of loyalty to TEC.

In any case, the intent of the consents provision was to ensure that a new bishop could take his (and now her) place in the US episcopate-- the drafters were mindful of the Scottish church's approach to the episcopate as an apostolic college. Theological unity was one of the aspects of this.

Consents as a recognition of administrative process appears to be a very recent view. As well as theological objections, in the 1970s, a number of dioceses withheld consents on the grounds that bishops-elect were divorcés (insufficient in number to block any of these elections,) an objection which seems to have died out in recent years although, IIRC, some consents were withheld when Barry Beisner was elected as Coadjutor of North California in 2006, as he was now on his third marriage (as a footnote, Bp Beisner withheld consent from Glenn Forrester's election to Northern Michigan because of his revision of the baptismal liturgy).

Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anglican_Brat
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This year the General Convention passed a resolution declaring that in ordination to the three orders of Bishop, Presbyter, and Deacon, there will be no discrimination based on sexual orientation. People are free to disagree with that decision.

But, to then expect dioceses to blatantly refuse to ordain LGBT people would place them in direct contravention with the teaching of the national Church. Wouldn't that be more contrary to the canons than trusting dioceses to make their own choices in regards to episcopal leadership?

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JoannaP
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quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
So in Uganda various people including Anglican bishops are suggesting life sentences for people like the gay and lesbian shipmates you all know on these boards, and what has been the Archbishop's response to that? Sssssh! Be vewy vewy qwiet! We are doing top secret diplomacy with the homophobes. We can't possibly say that jailing and executing gay people as part of a witch-hunt and moral panic is a bad thing! What do you think we are? A church that might possibly have something to say about something that immoral?

But a female bishop who might possibly be getting her bits jollied by someone not attached to a penis? Oh the humanity! We cannot have the abomination of lady fingers on an episcopal clitoris! We cannot stay in communion with these people! They climax the wrong way under the duvet!

Words do not even begin to capture how screwed up that is.

L.

I want to be in communion with TEC and not the Anglican church in Uganda and I am sure I am not the only CofE layperson to feel that way. Interesting times ahead.

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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Custard
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
This year the General Convention passed a resolution declaring that in ordination to the three orders of Bishop, Presbyter, and Deacon, there will be no discrimination based on sexual orientation. People are free to disagree with that decision.

Much though I hate the language of "orientation" (it's far too binary for what is obviously a sliding scale, and wrongly implies a conflation of identity with sexual preference), a refusal on the grounds of practice is logically distinct from one on the grounds of desire, which is what orientation is about.

It's interesting comparing this to the Sydney position re lay presidency. Sydney have long chosen not to enforce the rules as strictly as they might have done, but when it came to a vote at Synod, it threatened to split them from the rest of the Anglican Communion. Synod voted in favour of allowing lay presidency. The Archbishop vetoed that decision, therefore keeping Sydney within the Anglican Communion...

It seems this is precisely what isn't about to happen in the US...

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Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.


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