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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Health Care
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Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633
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Posted
If those on the political right are dead set against President Obama's proposals, are they committed to going back to the current patchy health cover, allowing insurance companies to not cover those who have claimed much, the huge economic drag caused by employers' health costs, depressed labour mobility, health-related bankruptcies and dramatically rising health costs as a proportion of GDP? Wouldn't that make them appear rather stuck in their ways, puppets of the health lobby and fighting against the general good?
Which parts of the proposals would they be most likely to change when they get the chance?
Assuming something like Obama wants actually gets implemented (in the face of strident opposition) what's going to happen in the next few years? Any long term cost savings may be too late to help his political career as things like cheaper treatment and better outcomes due to treating health problems early are benefits which build up over more than three years. And better outcomes are not easily costed as overall benefits.
I can imagine his legacy as a one-term president who saved the country from its short-sightedness.
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Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
Erin, I've got a question for you. You've mentioned plenty of times that Medicare is bad because its reimbursement rates are so low. But is it really worse than the reimbursement rates from private insurers?
I'm asking because I just got an EOB from our plan. It's for a bunch of lab tests. First test, billed at $18, they paid $1.95. Next test, billed at $48.00, they paid $8.18. Next, $30, they paid $6.15. And so on and so forth, for a total amount billed of $873.60, and total amount paid $132.29.
The $132.29 represents the price negotiated by the insurance company. It's all the provider is going to get. We're not responsible for the difference.
Is Medicare really worse than that? Significantly worse? About the same?
What I found myself thinking, when going over the EOB, is that this idea that people with insurance are carrying the load for the uninsured is baloney. The truth is that people with insurance and enough cash, savings, and income to pay even part of their bill are carrying the load for both the insured AND the uninsured but totally broke.
That seems totally, absolutely nuts. But that looks like the way it works.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Boggis:
Any long term cost savings may be too late to help his political career as things like cheaper treatment and better outcomes due to treating health problems early are benefits which build up over more than three years.
Certainly better access to preventative medical care should result in reduced costs. But, as you say those savings aren't going to kick in over the short term. As Obama reaches the end of his second term he might be able to provide a demonstrable saving to help his successor in the race to the White House. But, even then it's likely to be a small saving if all he has is the scheme I've read about in the papers over here. There seems to be very little in it that addresses some of the bigger excess costs people have noted on this thread.
One saving that probably will kick in very quickly would be reduced costs for ER departments. I don't know quite how big those savings would be, but they should be happening in the first year or two of any scheme that provides a better option than going to the ER.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Josephine, that actually sounds like a BCBS EOB. Their reimbursement isn't really much better than Medicare or Medicaid until the payers collectively haul their asses in front of the state insurance commissioner and/or attorney general. If it's not BCBS, your plan has a very good contract negotiator, and you should probably take him with you the next time you buy a car. That is on the low side of traditional reimbursement from private payers. Most payers don't get that kind of cut, they pay a percentage of charges that is much, much higher than that.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
Thanks, Erin. You're right, it's a BCBS plan. And of course, in my last post, I meant that it looks like the healthcare costs are all being carried by people who do NOT have insurance, but have enough resources to pay at least part of their bills. The rest of us skate by as they refinance their homes, clean out their savings, max out their credit cards, and ultimately are driven into bankruptcy.
Frank Schaeffer, son of Francis Schaeffer, was interviewed last week on Chicago Public Radio. It's a fascinating show. Basically, he says there are three groups opposing health care reform: First, liars, like Sarah Palin and a few others, who know what they're saying isn't true, and say it anyway. They need to be told to quit lying. Second, the fearful and ignorant, who repeat the lies the liars tell them, who need to be given the truth. Then there are corporate interests.
Because he talks at length about the role of the religious right in the current debate, and because he was one of the founding members of the religious right, all of us who have ever wondered why conservative Christians have the opinions they do on health care reform should listen.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
Crystal Lee Sutton, whose struggles to unionize her workplace were the basis for the film Norma Rae, has died. She spent her last years fighting the other battle American workers often have to deal with, getting her insurance to pay for her medical treatments.
quote:
She has been married to Lewis Preston Sutton, Jr. for 30 years and he works two jobs to take care of her while she battles Meniginoma - a cancer that is usually slow growing with benign tumors. Unfortunately, that is not the case for Sutton.
"I said I've always been different and I wouldn't have this cancer thing be any other way. I accept it," she said. "It has to follow my personality."
She went two months without possible life-saving medications because her insurance wouldn't cover it, another example of abusing the working poor, she said.
"How in the world can it take so long to find out (whether they would cover the medicine or not) when it could be a matter of life or death?" she said. "It is almost like, in a way, committing murder."
She eventually received the medication, but the cancer is taking a toll on her strong will and solid frame. Her thin black hair is brittle from the drugs and chemo treatments. She has had brain surgery twice -once on Jan. 29, 2007, and again on Jan. 11, 2008.
At least she didn't have to deal with some government bureaucracy or 'death panel' that would just needlessly delay lifesaving medical treatment. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[edited for subject-verb agreement]
[ 15. September 2009, 17:58: Message edited by: Crœsos ]
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Crystal Lee Sutton, whose struggles to unionize her workplace were the basis for the film Norma Rae, has died. She spent her last years fighting the other battle American workers often have to deal with, getting her insurance to pay for her medical treatments.
quote:
She has been married to Lewis Preston Sutton, Jr. for 30 years and he works two jobs to take care of her while she battles Meniginoma - a cancer that is usually slow growing with benign tumors. Unfortunately, that is not the case for Sutton.
"I said I've always been different and I wouldn't have this cancer thing be any other way. I accept it," she said. "It has to follow my personality."
She went two months without possible life-saving medications because her insurance wouldn't cover it, another example of abusing the working poor, she said.
"How in the world can it take so long to find out (whether they would cover the medicine or not) when it could be a matter of life or death?" she said. "It is almost like, in a way, committing murder."
She eventually received the medication, but the cancer is taking a toll on her strong will and solid frame. Her thin black hair is brittle from the drugs and chemo treatments. She has had brain surgery twice -once on Jan. 29, 2007, and again on Jan. 11, 2008.
At least she didn't have to deal with some government bureaucracy or 'death panel' that would just needlessly delay lifesaving medical treatment.
[edited for subject-verb agreement]
Bollocks, bollocks, and thrice bollocks. Pretty much all healthcare funders decide what they will and won't pay for. Over here, they generally try to do so on the basis of spending the public funds as wisely as posible- a difficult and thankless but necessary and laudable job. Private insurance corporations basically do it on the basis of protecting their profitability. But you're probably happy with that, and think that sub third world health care for a large number of your fellow citizens is a price worth paying to keep those company bonuses healthy?
[ 18. September 2009, 20:27: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But you're probably happy with that, and think that sub third world health care for a large number of your fellow citizens is a price worth paying to keep those company bonuses healthy?
Albertus, I think your irony detection meter needs to be recalibrated.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
According to a new study, you're 40% more likely to die if you don't have health insurance. That means 45,000 people die each year as a result of being uninsured.
If you're a parent, and you have kids that are too old to be covered on your insurance, but too poor to buy their own insurance, and working at jobs where insurance isn't provided for them, that's really scary. Maybe more scary for me than for them.
Have you considered moving to the UK? England really is beautiful and we even have hospitals...
AFZ
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Albertus, I think your irony detection meter needs to be recalibrated.
Not so sure. There are plenty of right-wing Americans posting much more blatant nonsense than that all over the Internet. Its hard to tell the lies from the jokes sometimes.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But you're probably happy with that, and think that sub third world health care for a large number of your fellow citizens is a price worth paying to keep those company bonuses healthy?
Albertus, I think your irony detection meter needs to be recalibrated.
Um, yes, oops. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) . That is what happens when you jump into a discussion at a late stage without reading what's gone before. My only defence is that, as ken said, there are plenty of people out there who could say that sort of thing in all seriousness.
I wonder whether Norton have a product i could buy to help me in future?
[ 21. September 2009, 10:13: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
So, didn't someone suggest that opposition to the health care reform bill was largely from spiteful Republicans who want to make sure Obama didn't get his way? According to this article, there is a lot of money being spent by Big Pharma, the insurance industry, and others in defence of the status quo.
If you'll excuse the pun, it's sickening.
[ 01. October 2009, 17:38: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Jason™
Host emeritus
# 9037
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Posted
I've missed the last few pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has already shown up here, but if you haven't seen it, take a look at this cartoon explanation of "Why We Need Government-Run Universal Socialized Health Insurance".
For me, it says everything. I haven't heard anyone say anything that comes close to convincing otherwise.
Posts: 4123 | From: Land of Mary | Registered: Feb 2005
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Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633
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Posted
It seems to be happening - Happy Christmas to 30 million people with no health care!
The anti health care lobbyists seemed to have managed to water down a bit. Have the changes demanded to get it through made it more expensive and less effective than originally proposed or is the answer rather meaningless because it's predetermined by your political position?
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Boggis:
...or is the answer rather meaningless because it's predetermined by your political position?
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) Not only that, but it tells us exactly who watches which cable news network!
I think they should have gone much farther. The video clip to which Jason linked is neat, and explains how many services are already managed by the government. I loved the comparison between a government-run fire department and a government-run health care system.
I do think we need to figure out how to put an end to "incentives" given to encourage votes.
[ 24. December 2009, 18:33: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I wondered when this thread was going to turn up.
Indeed, Merry Christmas to my dear neighbours, who may finally taste the joy of real health care. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Part of me though just can't believe it. I'm on record in this thread as saying that the important thing is that everyone gets covered and therefore gets access to care, and I'm agnostic as to the actual method used.
If this works out, as it seems it just did, this really is the biggest change in American social policy since the 1960's.
Did Obama just manage to do that which evaded every President since Harry Truman?
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
If this works out, as it seems it just did, this really is the biggest change in American social policy since the 1960's.
Did Obama just manage to do that which evaded every President since Harry Truman?
It's not entirely a done deal yet-- the house and senate bills need to be merged, which will take more negotiation, compromise, and sadly, no doubt more pork*. But still, it looks like a very promising New Year for those of us struggling to care for our families here...
*gotta chuckle at all the GOP Senators who are shocked! shocked I tell you! that pork and special deals were made. Maybe if they hadn't played Lucy-with-the-football last time they'd have gotten a little Christmas bacon themselves.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
Whereas the Premier of a Canadian province went to the USA for surgery recently.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Whereas the Premier of a Canadian province went to the USA for surgery recently.
America does have some of the best health care in the world... for those who can afford it. Luckily for the Premier, Canadians have excellent insurance.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Whereas the Premier of a Canadian province went to the USA for surgery recently.
America does have some of the best health care in the world... for those who can afford it.
Yeah, it really does feel like the very few people who can afford to fly to the Mayo Clinic for their routine check-ups are terrified that they will have to share their health care with the hoi poloi, and are trotting out their usual bag of tricks to get the great unwashed to oppose what is in their interest so that the rich will not look as sleezy as they are. In this country, we call that "Republican family values."
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Whereas the Premier of a Canadian province went to the USA for surgery recently.
America does have some of the best health care in the world... for those who can afford it. Luckily for the Premier, Canadians have excellent insurance.
Medicare does not pay for out-of-province services which are available in-province. Danny Williams had to foot the bill entirely on his own. As he is both the Premier and a successful businessman, he can afford to do so.
It's a lie that Canada doesn't have two-tier health care. We do, it's just the private clinics are in the States.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
...
It's a lie that Canada doesn't have two-tier health care. We do, it's just the private clinics are in the States.
and Québec.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
A parable about US healthcare politics with reference to Big Macs, shedloads of wonga, and going to Canada for medicine, just like Sarah Palin does
More than a little misleading. What Governor Palin said is that when she was a child her family used to travel from Skagway to Whitehorse for health care. Her father latter elaborated that such was the only option. Read the story here.
What her family did when she was a child out of necessity is not the same thing as Governor Palin traveling to Canada as an adult seeking health care.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
“But we have to pass the [healthcare] bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."
From a recent speech by Speaker Pelosi.
Shouldn't we know what is in it before it passes?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
...Shouldn't we know what is in it before it passes?
Where's the fun in that?
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
...Shouldn't we know what is in it before it passes?
Where's the fun in that?
For that matter, where's the precedent?
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Jason™
Host emeritus
# 9037
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Danny Williams had to foot the bill entirely on his own. As he is both the Premier and a successful businessman, he can afford to do so.
It's a lie that Canada doesn't have two-tier health care. We do, it's just the private clinics are in the States.
Well I certainly hope we continue to make it so the richest can also stay the healthiest. Makes sense when you think about it. Rich people have so much more to enjoy, of course we'd want to make sure they can live longest and healthiest. Poor people have crap lives, and probably want to die anyway.
Posts: 4123 | From: Land of Mary | Registered: Feb 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jason™:
Well I certainly hope we continue to make it so the richest can also stay the healthiest. Makes sense when you think about it. Rich people have so much more to enjoy, of course we'd want to make sure they can live longest and healthiest. Poor people have crap lives, and probably want to die anyway.
Lately my Right-Wing acquaintances have been complaining about the higher premiums we will have to pay when pre-existing condition exclusions are lifted. They believe, and with good reason, that some people won't purchase insurance until they are afflicted with a life-threatening ailment. [I wonder what channel they've been watching and which AM radio shock jock they've been following...] In the meantime, those of us who prefer not to handle things that way will be footing a higher bill to make up for all the premiums that the companies won't be receiving monthly for those people anymore.
My tongue-in-cheek solution to remove profit entirely from the medical industry was not received well. Honestly, I tend not to utilize my health insurance very often, and I'd rather my basically unused premiums be used to help others less fortunate than to line the pockets of profiteers.
It's a good thing the fire department, police, and schools were non-profited and government-absorbed a long time ago; otherwise we'd all be in trouble.
Just think what it would be like if the schools were run in the same way...
Teacher 1: The checks from the Ed-surance companies haven't come in lately, and I've submitted the paperwork to all of them five times in triplicate.
Teacher 2: I just don't accept students who are covered by Edu-Net and EdWorld Industries.
[ 09. March 2010, 22:03: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Whereas the Premier of a Canadian province went to the USA for surgery recently.
God forbid the Beautiful People should have to wait in line with the underbelly masses.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Danny Williams is Premier of Newfoundland & Labrador; Newfoundland Premiers are by definition crazy.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
Seems like the vote passed in the US.
Let the congratulations/howling begin.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations to us!
Oh yes, and let the Republicans in Congress go fuck themselves.
[ 22. March 2010, 03:35: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations to us!
Oh yes, and let the Republicans in Congress go fuck themselves.
Yeeeeehaaaawwww!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Rep. Bart Stupak is my new hero.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Have they figured out who called him "baby killer" yet?
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
As a diabetic, I feel so happy for my American friends.
Does this Act have a good acronym like OHIP or NHS that can be incorporated into the general tongue?
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Rep. Bart Stupak is my new hero.
He's certainly received the pop culture recognition he deserves with an urban dictionary entry.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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MrSponge2U
Ship’s scrub
# 3076
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Posted
I believe that Glenn Beck's and Rush Limbaugh's heads just exploded. Fox News should now change its name to the Angry White People's Network.
I think that it's about time that the US passed some kind of health care reform. The opposing voices in the media have become so insane, listening to Norwegian heavy metal music is relaxing in comparison.
I am glad for people that are no longer going to be kicked off health insurance for preexisting conditions. This is not going to destroy America.
[ 22. March 2010, 04:27: Message edited by: MrSponge2U ]
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sig? what sig?
Posts: 3558 | From: where two big rivers meet | Registered: Jul 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Rush Limbaugh said he'd move to Costa Rica if this happened. He's a man of his word, isn't he?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
We watched several hours of the debate this evening. Fabulous civics lesson for Littlest One. For me, too. It was great.
There was a congresswoman from Florida who gave an amazing speech. I don't know if they even said her name (all representatives being introduces as "the gentleman from" or "the gentlewoman from"), but I would expect that we'll see more of her in the future.
Littlest One was impressed by the speech of one of the older black congressmen -- might have been Representative Lewis of Georgia, but I'm not sure. He spoke with the passion and cadence of a black preacher.
Watching the number of votes on the screen change was like watching a ball game. The number hadn't changed to 216 on the screen when the people in the chamber all started chanting "Nancy Did It! Nancy Did It!" Like at a high school basketball game. We knew they must have seen the numbers change just seconds before we saw it.
Exciting day. With this bill, as imperfect as it is, we've finally joined the rest of the First World.
Lord, have mercy. Thanks be to God.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Congratulations !
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
I'm glad we've got our feet in the door. IMHO, it's probably still going to be a long haul. They still have to hammer out many things. And, of course, if there's a way to trip up or stop the process, opponents will.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Good to hear on tonight's news that it looks like things are going well for you all in this. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Posts: 1784 | From: drought-stricken land | Registered: Jan 2007
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Rush Limbaugh said he'd move to Costa Rica if this happened. He's a man of his word, isn't he?
You could send him a one-way ticket just in case. I am sure many people would be only too glad to donate.
RL is so notorious that we have even heard of him in Australia. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I'm glad we've got our feet in the door. IMHO, it's probably still going to be a long haul. They still have to hammer out many things. And, of course, if there's a way to trip up or stop the process, opponents will.
Part of it -- the Senate bill -- is a done deal. The House passed the Senate bill, in spite of many of them having significant reservations about it (mostly because they thought it didn't do enough; some over the issue of abortion). The only thing that part needs now is Obama's signature.
The second part -- the reconciliation bill, which is the package of fixes the House got the Senate to agree to pass -- still has to be passed by the Senate. That part could be stopped. But I don't think it will be. As I understand it, the House said they wouldn't pass the Senate bill without strong assurances that the Senate would pass the reconciliation bill. I think it will happen, and happen soon.
We'll see, though.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
I heard this morning that today is the anniversary of the British parliament's passing the Stamp Act part of a series of Acts that lead, in part, to the American Revolution. Gladly we have elections now to effect a new revolution and will not have to resort to violence to get rid of these current petty street thugs running things.
And, I don't think Republicans need fuck themselves. That was done by the Democrats when they voted for this horrible bill!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I heard this morning that today is the anniversary of the British parliament's passing the Stamp Act part of a series of Acts that lead, in part, to the American Revolution.
Today is also the anniversary of the Khatyn massacre, if what you're looking for is inflamatory incidents that coordinate with the Earth's revolution around the sun.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I heard this morning that today is the anniversary of the British parliament's passing the Stamp Act part of a series of Acts that lead, in part, to the American Revolution.
Today is also the anniversary of the Khatyn massacre, if what you're looking for is inflamatory incidents that coordinate with the Earth's revolution around the sun.
No, I'm sure that New Yorker was actually celebrating the culmination of our freedom in finally enacting a basic human right though democratic means that was denied us by our tyrannical British overlords...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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