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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: The SoF Railway Enthusiasts' Thread
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
"Ship" in North American usage means to send a load to a destination by whatever means. It usually denotes a commercial transaction. For instance my Chapters account will tell me when my books have shipped from the warehouse in Toronto. It will also give me shipping options as to whether I would like overnight delivery or regular parcel service. Chapters uses Canada Post as its shipping service.
Ship is the verb, Shipment is the noun.
"Truck" as both a road vehicle and the wheel mounting on a rail vehicle is just one of those North American things.
I had no idea this was a Pond Difference. It's perfectly normal and respectable English over here, with no hint of slang or informality at all.
Intermodal shipping means does mean that a load is consigned to a shipper, usually a trucking line, and they will sort out the modes. It usually means that the load will be driven by truck to the nearest intermodal yard and placed on a train, sent by rail to the nearest intermodal yard near the destination, and then off-loaded and trucked to the destination. Intermodal shipments can either be by truck trailer or container..
Containers can be double-stacked (one on top of another) and can be carried by container ships, so they are generally cheaper.
All the railroads have their own truck lines and also have extensive contracts with regular trucking companies. BSNF has a very large contract with JB Hunt in the US which has earned them lots of money. You really can't beat the economics of intermodal for long-haul shipping.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
The ride quality of the Pacers may explain why no other railway uses four-wheel vehicles for anything beyond track-maintenance jobs.
Why do the Brits have this need to travel uncomfortably?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
That's really interesting. It's a help to translation. I had not realised how many differences there are.
We'd still I think normally use 'ship' to mean to send in a ship. But on an island, that happens quite a lot. We have not historically been able to send loads on long journeys by land. Fairly soon, they fall off the edge.
A person who called themselves a 'shipper' or a 'shipping agent' would be holding themselves out as a specialist in booking freight movements by sea.
I think for most other uses of 'ship' in the North American sense, we'd say send, consign or despatch.
'Line' also, here would normally apply only to a shipping (in our sense) line. Carriers on road are carriers or hauliers.
I was intrigued by the photograph of the truck trailers. We don't use those. The loading gauge would not be able to cope with it, and the extra height looks unstable. Ordinary containers are designed so that they can be transferred from boat to train to lorry etc freely. We do not really use the term 'intermodal' for the interchange arrangements, but this is usually done by having cranes on gantries that can lift the containers up and put them down where required. Containers are not be stacked on top of each other except on a ship.
There was a short period 40 + years ago before the standard container developed, when there was a thing called the ro-railer, but these never caught on.
'Truck' in the railway sense means a wagon. The wheel mounting, as people have already said, is a bogie. In road terms, 'truck' is now used, and a lorry driver may him or even herself as a trucker. A haulage company would be unlikely to do so unless (perhaps) it was only one lorry and one driver.
Railway wagons in large numbers go through the channel tunnel to Europe but cannot go to Ireland because it has a different gauge. Road freight normally goes by ferry to Ireland or the continent, and there is a considerable transit movement of Irish lorries through Wales and England to the continent.
On the discussion about four wheeled carriages (passenger vehicles) the DBB (West German Railways) were using some on local trains until quite late on that appeared to have been built since 1945. We used them, and six wheeled versions, for parcels attached to passenger trains until at least the end of the steam era, though they weren't supposed to go at full express speeds.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
If you found the idea of trailers complete with wheels on flat cars to be a bit too high, how about this double-stacked container train?
Looks a bit odder when the 40-foot container in the well has a 53-footer stacked on top, sort of like a hammerhead shark!
ETA this shot emphasises the height more obviously.
[ 06. April 2010, 00:37: Message edited by: Horseman Bree ]
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
"Ship" as a verb and nautical usage in general has been a very fertile source for descriptive language for new transportation methods, and has been so in several languages. French is just as fond of this habit as English is.
Intermodal has such a profile because railways used to see trucks as deadly competitors who got unfair advantages and drove them under. Likewise truckers saw railways as monopolistic competitors to be slain by any means necessary.
Now with deregulation they see each other more often as complementary modes that make money off each other. Trucks handle short haul and local delivery, while the railways handle the long-haul. As I said, the truck company said TOFC (trailer on flat car) service was cheaper.
Both the truckers and the railways recognize that any new capacity will generally come from rail rather than road. That's one reason why Warren Buffett bought BNSF entirely.
BTW TOFC (Toffcee) shipping is very stable, the flat cars are specially designed to restrain the trailer.
Here's an interesting story about intermodal. The Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway (now BNSF) runs between Chicago and Los Angeles and its very well maintained and fast. They wanted more intermodal shipments and cultivated J.B. Hunt, a large trucking firm. The ATSF spent some money refurbishing their business train which is leftover stainless-steel streamlines cars from the 1950's. They are gorgeous. Mike Haverty invited J.B. Hunt himself out on the rails in this train and got him to agree to co-operate on contract intermodal shipments. After a trial, the entire fleet of J.B. Hunt was made available for intermodal service. BNSF is the largest intermodal rail carrier in North America.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Was wondering what any of the mavens on this thread made of the Lib Dem proposal to reopen a lot of closed branch lines? I don't know very much about the scheme except what is discussed in the Guardian here?
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Christian Wolmar is right: it's the structure that needs attention first, and if not outright renationalisation, at least a simplification.
And several of the Lib Dems' 'proposals' have already been agreed (for example, Liverpool-Manchester electrification) or have been proposed by many others as well.
However, if money is available for the 'grands projets' of high speed rail etc, then a little invested in reopening smaller lines and stations will seem like peanuts in comparison.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
The ride quality of the Pacers may explain why no other railway uses four-wheel vehicles for anything beyond track-maintenance jobs.
Why do the Brits have this need to travel uncomfortably?
I think that the reason is a simple one ~ it's cheap.
Unfortunately, I cannot remember where I saw it; it may well have been an article in Railway Magazine or similar, but I understand that the origin of the Pacers lay in some research done at Derby in the 1960's into the interaction of rail and wheel. In its turn, this went back to earlier research (in 1933) that resulted in changes being made to the gradient of the cone turned on the wheels of the trailing coach of the Silver Jubilee set.
In essence, the research in the 1960's showed that the received wisdom was wrong. As I am sure everybody is aware, conventionally the axleboxes are mounted in hornguides that prevent movement in all but the Z (vertical) plane. The axleboxes are then secured in their frame via springs that share out the load between the wheels. Gauge is ensured by the simple expedient of fixing the wheels to the axles (usually by hydraulic pressing) so that the entire 2 wheels and axle assembly turns as a unit.*
If you put two of these assemblies into a rigid frame, you have the simplest possible rail vehicle ~ the 4-wheel truck. Received wisdom in this country said that these could be run at up to 45 mph, but that they rapidly became unstable at any speed much above this, tending to oscillate violently about the vertical axis.
If you inspect a Pacer, you will find that the axleboxes are not mounted in hornguides. Instead, they have resilient mountings that permit limited movement in both X (horizontal) planes. It was discovered that incorporating this resilient element into the suspension overcame the rapid oscillation issue, permitting far higher speeds to be attained on two axles. I believe the Pacers are rated to 75mph.
Of course, building a vehicle on 2 axles costs a lot less than building on 2 bogies (I won't mention the schoolboy meaning of that word ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) ) hence the attraction to all concerned with costs. On the other hand, it doesn't do anything much for the ride quality, but who cares? The guys who have to pay for these things aren't ever going to ride in them, so what does it matter? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
* An exception to this is the construction of rack-rail locomotives ~ the pinions are pressed onto the axles and rotate with them, but the wheels are free to rotate at whatever speed. Special arrangements are made to ensure correct gauge.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by Darllenwr:
As I am sure everybody is aware ...
d'uh! Of course
Good to see you're still awake, then ... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Of course, building a vehicle on 2 axles costs a lot less than building on 2 bogies (I won't mention the schoolboy meaning of that word [Two face] )
The Harry Potter books educated this Canadian on the meaning of the word.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I don't know if it really counts, but I'm having a pleasant evening with a couple of railway comedy classics - Arnold Ridley's 'Ghost Train' with Arthur Askey, and Marriot Edgar's 'Oh Mr. Porter' with Will Hay... Nice black-and-white steam train lore...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
That's the same Arnold Ridley who was later in "Dad's Army" ...
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Benny Diction 2
Shipmate
# 14159
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Posted
Finally managed to do the whole Ebbw Valley line on Wednesday. Ebbw Valley
I was born in Crosskeys (which has one of the stations) just before the passenger services ended on the line and don't remember them, so it was really interesting to see places I know so well from a train.
It's a great service and was being well used by people going to Cardiff - though of course it is school holidays.
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Benny Diction
"The Labour party has never been a socialist party, although there have always been socialists in it - a bit like Christians in the Church of England." Tony Benn
Posts: 859 | From: Home of the magic roundabout | Registered: Oct 2008
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Total non seq, but if anybody is interested and can get to Welshpool (Powys) on Saturday coming (17th) the Sierra Leone locomotive 85 (No. 14 in the W&L list) will be making her last runs before retirement for extensive overhaul. She is likely to be out of traffic for some time, though there is considerable pressure from the working membership to fast-track her through the system, as she is a very popular locomotive with loco crews.
So, if you want to see her before she disappears into the workshop, this Saturday is your last chance.
She will be hauling a special African Train leaving Llanfair Caereinion at 14:30 on Saturday. Tickets for this are not publicly available, (restricted to members, or so I believe) but there is nothing to stop you coming along for a look.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
I'm afraid there's quite a bit of ocean in the way, which will affect my ability to attend.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Darllenwr:
Total non seq, but if anybody is interested and can get to Welshpool (Powys) on Saturday coming (17th) the Sierra Leone locomotive 85 (No. 14 in the W&L list) will be making her last runs before retirement for extensive overhaul.
Been there, seen that ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
[ 14. April 2010, 10:17: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
So no possibility of an ad hoc shipmeet then?
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
Darllenwr and Myself found out that riding First Class on the Sierra Leone Railway coaches is a very pleasurable experience. I think I will have to travel First Class more often.
Third Class was also quite comfortable. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I've been away for a few days. Otherwise I might have been inspired by this news. One regret though that the line is no longer allowed to go through peoples' back yards in Welshpool and across the main road.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
What's with the headlight? I didn't think they were standard in the UK.
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Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
The engine is from the Sierra Leone Government Railway, so is not British, and IIRC ran the last train there. She is, in effect, a main line engine!
There is talk, I believe, of extending through the town again, but it is currently just talk.....though I guess it helps that the Town Clerk of Welshpool is a member of the railway!
[ 20. April 2010, 17:06: Message edited by: Lord Pontivillian ]
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Answering Enoch and SPK at the same time, there has been some talk of the W&L being invited back into Welshpool. Now, 'some talk' could mean a lot of things, mostly pointless, but here we are talking about Welshpool Council, which puts the talk into a different category.
The W&L is fortunate in that the Welshpool Town Clerk (or whatever it is they call that office these days) just happens to be a member of the railway company and an active volunteer (for example, on Saturday last he was busy doing some repairs to the platform edge at Welshpool Raven Square station). It has been suggested that having trains actually running through the streets of the town would be a significant tourist draw, and should be encouraged.
Now that the Welshpool byepass exists, taking all the A483 traffic out of the town centre, the notion is nowhere near as crazy as it would have been even in 1963, when the town section was denied to the Preservation Company. Nothing definite has been agreed, but the possibility is stronger now than it has been at any time since 1956 (when BR closed the line)
The matter of headlights ~ 85, being built originally for use in Sierra Leone, had a thundering big headlamp fitted when it arrived at Llanfair yard. The same was true of Joan and the various foreign-origin locomotives that we run. Broadly speaking, the attempt is made to make restoration work reasonably true to original condition (where this is practical) so, if an engine had a headlamp when it arrived, unless there is a very good reason for removing it, the headlamp will stay in place.
Boys being boys, if an engine has a turbo-generator, somebody will want to see if it works. And, if it doesn't, somebody else will want to make it work. If so doing is practicable (ie, it doesn't cost a fortune) it is quite likely that the turbo-generator will be made to work, so the lights can then work ...
I'm sure you get the picture. Think 'boys and their toys' and you will be there ...
So, no, large electric headlamps were not standard practice in the UK (though small electric headlamps appeared on Bullied's locomotives on the SR) but then most of the locomotives running on the W&L aren't exactly standard British practice either. 85 and Joan were both built in Britain (Hunslet and Kerr Stuart respectively) and exported, so they do not represent British Practice, as such. The original Beyer Peacocks (The Earl and Countess), on the other hand, have to make do with standard oil lamps.
E.T.A. X-posted with Lord P.
[ 20. April 2010, 17:08: Message edited by: Darllenwr ]
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
There is a nice account of a ride on the Sierra Leone railway in Graham Greene's "Journey without Maps" - written in the late 1930s.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Big Bertha, the Lickey Banker, had a headlamp - I suspect it might have crumpled up the odd brake van (translator's note - caboose) as it crept up on the back of trains in the darkness. At least one 9F that superseded it had one too - 92079 did, how sad is it to be able to say that or want to?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I understand that the 9F's headlamp was indeed the old Lickey banker's, transferred when she was withdrawn.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Yes, the headlamp from Bertha was transferred to the 9F that replaced her.
Bertha was a fabulous locomotive. It's a shame she didn't last just a few more years, as if she had she'd have been a cert for preservation...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Bertha was a fabulous locomotive. It's a shame she didn't last just a few more years, as if she had she'd have been a cert for preservation...
Yes, it is regrettable that she wasn't preserved even if she was built by the wrong company.
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Of course, Bertha was designed for a particular job, which involved flat-out power for a short space of time. When trialled on ordinary freight she was not, I understand, suitable - not surprisingly, and no discredit to her.
I believe the same was true of the LSWR G16 4-8-0 tanks used at the Feltham hump yard, although they were sometimes used on cross-London transfer freights; it was certainly the case with the class Z 0-8-0s (which ended their days banking between Exeter St. David's and Central).
The later Maunsell class K 2-6-4T was designed specifically for short distance freights and was very successful.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
In fairness to 2290, it is little wonder that she was found unsuitable for general freight haulage ~ her cylinder and valve arrangements effectively strangled her.
She was built with 4 cylinders, but only 2 sets of valves, set above the outside cylinders. The inside cylinders had no valves immediately above them, drawing their steam from the outside cylinder valves through long (crossed) ports. The reason for this layout was apparently to do with the extreme slope on the cylinders, which left insufficient space for valves above the inside cylinders. It may also have been a constructional economy - just two sets of valve gear instead of 4, but I doubt that this was a significant consideration.
The problem with the design is that the valves simply were not large enough to pass steam at any significant rate. This does not matter if the job for the locomotive only involves low-speed slogging; small valves could handle such a situation. However, if any speed were required, the locomotive performance would quickly suffer.
Given that the locomotive was intended to be a low-speed slogger, the valve design was adequate, without being brilliant.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
You have to consider that the policy of the Midland was always towards small locos. Apart from 2290, they had nothing much bigger than 2P 4-4-0s, the compounds and the 4F 0-6-0s, so they wouldn't really have any idea what to do with a lot of steam. The only 2-8-0s were the S&D ones, which would not have been much use anywhere else.
It may have been very good for Churchward to open up valves with long travel and worthwhile diameters, but that kind of thing simply isn't done here, you must know!
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
One might, politely, refer to the Midland's locomotive design policy as 'eccentric'. One railway writer (and I cannot, at the moment, remember which one) reckoned that the Midland Railway was the headquarters of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Steam Engines and suggested that the company treated its engines as pets.
Bree, your point is well made; British locomotive design was very much governed by the 'Not Invented Here' syndrome. The fact that some design feature had worked well on another railway seems not to have influenced design policy anywhere else. If anything, this attitude was more noticeable in reverse; the fact that some design feature had been shown to be catastrophic by another railway company was nothing to prevent it being adopted here - after all, we know what we're doing, they're just a bunch of idiots down the road there. ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I thought the Midland's Small Engine Policy was a result due to the fact that the Marketing Department held sway at that company. They understood that their customers wanted fast, frequent service, which called for lots of small engines.
Dear me, that was terribly British of me. I shall have to have lie down with a small beverage and a history of the Canadian Pacific Railway in order to recover.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
It was more the operating department than the marketing. Railways aren't set up to suit the interests of enthusiasts.
On the passenger side, the Midland ran frequent fairly short and fast expresses, more like current UK practice. Quite often, they split en route into even shorter versions. Many Manchester expresses, for example, split into three at Chinley, one portion for Manchester Central, one for Manchester Victoria and East Lancashire, and one for Liverpool.
Also, they had stringent and standardised rules about what loads individual classes could take, based on what an engine not in peak condition and in poor weather could pull. The system was built round predictability and consistency, rather than fireworks. Dull perhaps, but more reliable for the passenger.
Even their stations did not have particularly long platforms.
Even the LMS never allocated anything bigger than a Jubilee to the Midland Division south of Leeds. It was not until about 1959 that Scots and Britannias started to appear on the Manchester trains.
Incidentally, though, it's a mistake to think that a Compound, which I knew well, was a small engine. The 2P was, and the Belpaire, class 3s, which I can't remember, were not that large. But the Compound's wheel arrangement misleads people. In size they were bigger than people realise. They had the same boiler as the S&D 2-8-0s and were bigger than many pre-grouping 4-6-0s.
The 999 class, which I also never saw, was the same size.
On the freight side, it's more surprising they never built anything bigger, and indeed, they completed the First World War with only two experimental class 4s. I believe both Big Bertha and an S&D 2-8-0 were tried on shifting the endless succession of coal trains from Toton to Cricklewood, without success. When wage rates were low, they stuck with running small goods engines in multiple, again a modern practice except that without a fire to deal with, the modern world has found a way of enabling one driver to control more than one engine at a time.
The length of the lumbering coal trains that were its staple business might well have been thought beyond what it was possible to design one engine to pull before 1914 - even though the GWR was already doing it by then. It may have been assumed to be preferable to run a long train that two medium sized engines could pull, rather than the two thirds or three quarters as long train that they thought a single bigger engine could manage.
Besides, though they might plod along, if the alternative was a Super D, by all reports they were a horrible thing to drive or fire.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
The same sort of thing, although on a larger scale happened in relation to Gresley's freight Mikados, the P1s . They could pull well, and were faster over the road, but the road would have had to be rebuilt to handle the longer trains, and that wasn't going to happen. So they were scrapped way too soon, and the loads continued to plod along behind much smaller locos.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
And it was the coal train issue that led the LMS to introduce the 2-6-0+0-6-2 Garratts. In theory, these should have been a good solution to the problem. In practice, they were anything but, mainly because the LMS insisted in (essentially) building 2 4F's under a common boiler and calling the result a Garratt. As the 4F's were notorious for hot axleboxes (the bearings were simply too small for the imposed load) the Garratts were much the same. Memory suggests that, whilst Beyer Peacock assembled the Garratts in question, they declined to accept responsibility for the design.
And it is sad to reflect that Britain, the country that introduced the Garratt concept to the world, only ever ran two classes of standard gauge Garratt, neither of which were entirely satisfactory and both for essentially the same reason - too much interference in the design by the customer. Both classes of Garratt used in this country were essentially existing classes of locomotive shoved together under a common boiler.
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
As the long coal trains were all double headed, the crews also grumbled that when the Garratts came in, two sets of wheels, cylinders and motion but one boiler, they were being expected to drive and fire two engines on the wages of one.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I think that may be one of the reasons why they put in the rotating coal-bunker, to bring the coal down to the front - I don't think they had them when built.
The Spanish and, I think, the Algerians had some wonderful express Garratts.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
As the long coal trains were all double headed, the crews also grumbled that when the Garratts came in, two sets of wheels, cylinders and motion but one boiler, they were being expected to drive and fire two engines on the wages of one.
Which, from the point of view of Management, was the whole point of the Garratts.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
The first two, but the last two in the list of numbers (here revealing once again my high sadness quotient), had fixed bunkers and the later ones all had revolving ones.
It's a wonderful thing, by the way, to see a Garratt in motion.
I'd love to have seen an express one. I wish the LMS had commissioned the ones Beyer Peacock proposed to them before Stanier's arrival.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Your wish is my command! I was looking through YouTube to see if anything of our little Ten-Wheeler, CN #1009, had made it into the files, and came across this 1009 of the Queensland Railway.
Lots of motion (both forward and backward at once!)
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Bree, your link appears not to work ...
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Link not workin', Sir.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Hmm, the link works for me.
But, I'm special.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
It begins to look as though the link doesn't work in the UK. Explain that if you can, computer whiz kids.
Try this if you are in the UK, coutesy of Leetle Masha, who PM'd the link to me.
[yw,mc! ]
[ 24. April 2010, 02:54: Message edited by: jedijudy ]
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Drat!
If any passing friendly host is able to fix that classic screw-up, I would be very much obliged. Tried to edit to fix broken code, but missed the window. Such is life. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Amazing video! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Wonderful locomotive!
And the poem beats "Adlestrop" hollow.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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