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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: The SoF Railway Enthusiasts' Thread
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
My "reconstruction" vote would be for a NYC Hudson (non-streamlined). These machines set the standard for what passenger engines should do when they were introduced in 1927 (J1) and then upped the ante with the J3, maintaining supremacy through the rest of the heavyweight era and on into streamliners, until the Niagaras took over after the war. But none were saved.
At least there ARE two K4s.
Maybe an articulated would be nice, but does everything HAVE to be bigger? How about just a few "betters" instead?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
It seems to me that we Brits have at least one advantage in our favour; our confined loading gauge means that nothing was ever very big. Goodness knows, boiler repairs (and even completely new boilers, steam preservation having now reached that stage) are expensive, but I wouldn't like to contemplate the cost of a new-build boiler for a Challenger ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
And we also seem to be fortunate in our steam enthusiasts. Contrary to the fears expressed by many of my father's generation, my son's generation are finding an interest in steam of their own. Unlike their grandfathers, this is not driven by nostalgia, just by the fascination of the thing itself. A quick look around Llanfair yard (Welshpool & LLanfair Light Railway headquarters, here, if you're interested to look) on the average Saturday will show all ages of individual (not all male, either) in filthy overalls! The interest is being passed on.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I think it's possible to be nostalgic for something one has only known by repute. Think of the Victorian fascination with 'Merrie England'.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
One could say the same of some Victorian and Edwardians' fascination with English and other Uses. Have any shipmates ever come across Liturgy and Worship by someone called W K Lowther Clarke? It went on being reissued until at least 1950
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
One could say the same of some Victorian and Edwardians' fascination with English and other Uses. Have any shipmates ever come across Liturgy and Worship by someone called W K Lowther Clarke? It went on being reissued until at least 1950
A copy of the 1950 edition sits on my bookshelf. I wouldn't say I refer to it frequently.
Back to trains ->
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Horseman Bree: While I share your admiration for the NYC Hudson, there exists a "cousin" in the form of a Nickel Plate Hudson, #170, in the collection of the wonderful National Museum of Transportation in St. Louis.
Also, SPK, the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento has a cosmetically restored cab-forward, SP #4294, which is an AC-12 class locomotive and the last cab-forward purchased by the SP. It would be great to see her on the road, but given California's fiscal crisis, this would be highly unlikely.
If, in our fantasy, we are to re-create an extinct class of locomotive, I would still prefer to summon forth a Niagara or, better yet, a PRR S1 or T2.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
True, I vaguely remembered there were some still around, but like many big steam locos it's non-running.
I'm not really enthusiastic about an S1 or a T1; they were innovative but not really representative of North American Steam at its best. The NYC S1 Niagaras were.
My fantasy to would have a lineup of the existing Northerns: A rebuilt NYC S-1 Niagara, UP FEF-3 844, Santa Fe 3751, Norfolk & Western J-1 611, and SP GS-4 4449. The finest steam in North America, all in running condition. What a marvellous sight to behold.
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
According to this site , the Brits have ten of their passenger 4-6-2s (one built within the last couple of years) and eight heavy 4-6-0s certified for mainline running at 75 mph on the mainlines, all within a space smaller than New England, and all actually running.
In the whole US, there are - what? maybe ten locomotives of any wheel arrangement certified for any speed on mainlines. The only Canadian, a Hudson, is usually seen only in BC, rarely in the US (and it isn't one of the "Royal" ones).
The Brits have just built a 4-6-2 to "complete the set" for one company, are building a 4-6-0 to help "complete the set" for another "fallen flag" company (fallen in 1948) and have plans for a new-build of the remaining 4-6-0 of that company. Not only that, there are plans for a new-design 4-6-0 of more power than any ever before.
And you want to fob me off with a distant cousin (living paralysed in a museum) of one of the most iconic American designs of the Roaring 20's - actually, of all-time steam.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Oh, I quite agree with your fantasy lineup. But let's look at what is up and running in steam: You mentioned 3751, which just finished a wonderful run down to San Diego (which I missed due to work commitments); 844, which still makes runs out of Denver on UP tracks; 611, which could be restored (and which used to run); 4449, the queen of the bunch, in my opinion; and, to leaven that Northern pool with the almost as mighty Berkshires, Pere Marquette 1225, a meticulously restored 2-8-4 which has operated on Michigan tracks (and which is undergoing its FRA checkup);and Nickel Plate 765, a similar 2-8-4.
Also, don't forget two more Northerns, Milwaukee Road #261 and Spokane Portland & Seattle #700. It's unclear whether 261 will operate again, but 700 is in the capable hands of the 4449 group in Portland, and one can dream.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Horseman Bree: Again, if we are talking fantasy resurrections of locomotives, the Niagara is a more impressive locomotive in every respect than the Hudson. And, there are a number of other 4-6-4s in preservation in addition to the Nickel Plate Hudson, many from the Burlngton Road. I agree that it would be lovely to have a NYC Hudson with us (surprising that none were saved), but I still would prefer to "fob you off" with a Niagara, simply based on its status as the ultimate Northern.
SPK: You are correct, of course, about the superiority of the Niagara as motive power to either the S1 or T1/T2. But, I am the son of a Pennsylvanian, and have always been somewhat biased toward Tuscan Red.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
We can certainly include a Hudson or two, the NYC Hudsons were extremely significant and excellent machines.
I'd like to rebuild an Illinois Central 4-8-2 Mountain. Just because I like the IC and it's the third Harriman road, in addition to UP and SP. Or something from the South, like the Atlantic Coast Line, the Louisville & Nashville or the Southern. A Pacific or Mountain from those roads would do well.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Well, don't forget the Southern 1401 4-6-2 sitting in the Smithsonian. I seem to recall that it was in pretty good condition when it was jammed into the museum. And, there are at least two IC 4-8-2s on display, unfortunately not in running order.
But, since you and Horseman Bree have worn me down, I will assent to the fantasy re-creation of an NYC Hudson. Heck, make it two, as long as we can do one of them in the streamline shrouding of Henry Dreyfus.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
It really is impossible to call for only 1 loco. A short list must include at least 1 NYC Hudson, a J Class from Norfolk and Western, and a K4. I like the idea of a dressed and plain Hudson. Those 3 classes show steam at its very best.
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I agree, along with the Niagara or its predecessor the UP FEF-3 Northern. But Norfolk & Western J-1 611 it still around, and close to running order, once it's retubed and given some basic maintenance. Norfolk Southern used to use it in excursion service until a few years ago.
I really like the idea of a Northern lineup. A GS-4 next to an FEF-3 next to an NYC S-1? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Oh, the heck with New York Central Hudsons. How about a real flyer, one of the Milwaukee Road Atlantics from the 1930s that powered the magnificent Hiawathas between Chicago and the Twin Cities? Or one of the Milwaukee Road Hudsons that succeeded the Atlantics? All gone, unfortunately.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Yes, but the Milwaukee Road?
[Never really liked it as a road. Dunno why.]
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
But they were just inverted bathtubs, not REAL locomotives. Slightly better than the Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson, I will grant you.
The scimitar-fronted NYC J3's really showed off their motion well, never lost sight of their locomotive nature.(ETA you'll have to scroll down the page)
Most other streamliners were just trying to be diesels.
[ 11. May 2010, 17:00: Message edited by: Horseman Bree ]
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Reading all the talk about Berkshires, Hudsons, Northerns &c set me mentally reviewing the UK stock and realising that there were virtually no examples of those wheel arrangements over here except as tank engines. I think that there were some 2-8-4 tanks built for use in Northern Ireland (none too sure about that) and the LB&SCR built Baltic Tanks for use on the Brighton expresses (read 'Hudson' for 'Baltic'), but I cannot think of a single example of a Northern built for use in this country. Similarly, no Mountains were ever built for standard gauge (though the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway run two examples Hercules and Samson on 15 inch gauge). I understand that Gresley started work on a possible Mountain for construction after the war, something of a cross between an A3 and a P2, but his early death put a stop to the project and, in any case, changed traffic patterns after the war would have rendered it redundant.
The GWR ran a class of 2-8-2 tanks (the 7200 class) and there were a number of classes of 0-8-2 and even 0-8-4 tanks, but 8-coupled anything was almost entirely restricted to freight work over here.
Smaller engines on smaller railways again, I guess.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
The only loco in England that ran a four-wheel truck under the firebox was the experimental The boiler proved to be unsuitable for rail use and was replaced, but the anomalous second trailing axle survived, despite not really being needed.
I can't think of any traffic in England that would have needed such a large firebox. The French, the Germans and the Russians all had the heavier trains and longer runs that made large fireboxes necessary.
As I said above, tank engines with four-wheel trailing trucks are a different thing altogether, since the truck is just a substitute for the tender, not a necessary part of the boiler's support. Keeping "Baltic" tanks separate from "Hudson" tender engines might be helpful.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
In reply to Darllenwr:
OMG it's a locomotive-hauled tea waggon!
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
You cheeky blighter!
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
No. I can't think of any 4-8-2s or 4-8-4s either. The French had some very nice 4-8-2s which I think were used for express passenger workings on more hilly roads.
It was perhaps the obvious next step on from a Pacific, particularly bearing in mind that properly balanced, in spite of all those wheels, 9Fs turned out to be very successful for passenger duties on hilly lines like the Somerset & Dorset.
The only UK 4-6-4 tender engine I know of was originally the LNER's Hush Hush experimental and then converted into a conventional express engine. It was classed as W1. It looked like an A4 but did not have a name.
The big Brighton 4-6-4Ts were all converted to 4-6-0 tender engines after the line to Brighton was electrified. They lasted well into BR days. The various ones that the LMS inherited (Furness, L&Y etc) all got cleared out earlier on. They were all fairly small batches, and I suspect weren't as good as the successive versions of the LMS's standard 2-6-4 tanks.
As Horseman Bree says, the UK didn't really take to using bogies under fireboxes for tender engines but found that arrangement made a lot of sense to support both cab and bunker on a tank engine. Hence the number and success of 2-6-4Ts. Despite the disaster at Sevenoaks, which seems to have been caused by poor quality Brighton track, when the Southern finally got BR 2-6-4s they seem to have been a great success.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Sorry, seem to have lost a link in my last post.
Here is the link for the "Hush-Hush" W1 that was the only 4-6-4 non-tank engine in the UK.
Actually, it wasn't a 4-6-4, more like a 4-6-2-2, since the trailing wheels were a Cartazzi axle, similar to the Pacifics, followed by a pivoting 2-wheel truck with inside bearings. As usual, the Brit designers (except for the school of Churchward) went out of their way to make things complicated and unnecessarily expensive to maintain.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Thanks for the link to No. 10000 ~ that has to be the greatest amount of information I have ever seen on the subject in one place.
It seems to me that No. 10000 (like "Fury" on the LMS and also 6202, also on the LMS) suffered from being the only one of its kind. If anything went twang, this inevitably meant a long time out of traffic whilst repairs were made, as components would be bespoke, not off-the-shelf. At least No. 10000 did not stage a boiler explosion, as did Fury. One wonders whether this put Gresley off the idea of seriously high steam pressure ~ Fury's explosion happened at something between 1400 and 1800 psi (have a look at this link for more information).
From what I have heard, one of the things that killed the water-tube boiler was the problem of keeping it air tight ~ I seem to remember that there were persistent problems with air leaks destroying (or compromising) the smokebox vacuum, leading to indifferent steaming. Almost certainly, the boiler fell victim to vibration ~ water-tube boilers are not generally used in environments where there is serious vibration ~ which would not have been an easy problem to solve.
On the subject of high-pressure locomotives, can anybody throw any more light on the subject of the Norfolk & Western No 2300 than Douglas Self has to offer?
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Ah yes, Jawn Henry. It's related somewhat to Chessie on the neighbouring Chesapeake & Ohio. Both the C&O and N&W were coal-hauling roads, period. N&W owned (and still owns, via Norfolk Southern) its own coal pier at Lambert's Point which is the crown jewel of its business.
As a result N&W held to steam long after most other Class I's started to dieselize. It's J class were legendary. Since in those days relationships mattered since prices were regulated, N&W didn't want to dieselize and annoy its coal customers by depriving them of revenue. Hence Jawn Henry.
Unfortunately even Jawn Henry couldn't stave off the diesel. N&W acquired the Wabash and the Nickel Plate Road in 1965, which diversified its traffic base. Coal was still number one, but it wasn't everything anymore, and deregulation was on the horizon.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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daviddrinkell
Shipmate
# 8854
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Darllenwr:
I think that there were some 2-8-4 tanks built for use in Northern Ireland (none too sure about that)
Almost - the last engines delivered to the Londonderry and Lough Swilly (in 1912) were monster 4-8-4Ts (not 2-8-4) from Hudswell Clarke. The Swilly, despite being perpetually hard-up, had a lot of very big, impressive engines, including 4-6-2Ts (the first Pacifics in the British Isles?)and at least one 4-8-0.
All scrapped, alas!
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David
Posts: 1983 | From: St. John's, Newfoundland | Registered: Dec 2004
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Dunno why everyone keeps on about the J class. ISTM that the A class 2-6-6-4 was a lot more locomotive.
Articulated? check
Pulling power? 114, 000 lbs. T.E. (20,000 more than the Challenger) Check
Speed? at least 70 mph. check
Modern? 1943, roller-bearing, faast turn-around (famously). check
Freight? lots. check
Passenger? lots. check
And none of this need to be a torpedo or blimp or whatever the cowling on the J reminds you of.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Because I have a TRAINS magazine article where a J class was wrecked while pulling the Cavalier. The right side was fine, the left was was ruined and inoperable.
The left side was decoupled and left to freewheel, and the loco was run home to Roanoke on her ride side piston only.
She made 60 mph without a stability problem or hammering herself off the track.
Perfect steam.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Thanks for the link to the Hush Hush, with its own link to some silent film of the engine in motion. It isn't clear whether the LNER ever risked running it in any revenue earning service. 90,000 miles sounds quite a lot for purely test operations. One would expect that if a railway company was going to run an engine up to that mileage, it would want to get some sort of return on it. When City of Truro was first refurbished into workable condition, the Western Region sent it out on locals round the Swindon area when it was not required for enthusiasts' specials.
On the other hand, companies don't usually risk sending an experimental engine out on trains with real passengers in them unless they are confident it won't fail.
In its rebuilt form, it ran as A N Other express engine. I don't though recall ever seeing any logs or reports as to how it compared with an A4 or any other LNER engine. The only time I saw 60700 it was stationary at Doncaster, and technically I have since discovered, withdrawn by a few days.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Once the W1 was rebuilt, it was, in effect, an A4 - except that it was fractionally longer and had an extra axle
I'm sure that thyere was just enough non-standard stuff about its boiler and framing that it was a candidate for withdrawal as soon as enough diesels were around.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Uh, Bree, the Norfolk & Western wasn't a large passenger operator. Given their short route mileage at the time, almost all of their passenger trains were operated by J's.
The A-class only pulled passengers in exceptional circumstances. No, excursion service after restoration doesn't count.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
For those with access to BBC iPlayer (possibly also somewhere else on the web), I've found this lovely TV programme, 'The Real Railway Children'. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
The story of a family with steam in their veins. Clive Groome and his three daughters all drive trains on the Bluebell Railway in Sussex. We follow a year in their lives as the Bluebell celebrates its fiftieth anniversary. But for how long can unpaid volunteers keep the old steam trains running?
(Available until 4:14pm BST, Sunday 16 May 2010)
Enjoy, peeps! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
I can't access that, and it's rude to post iPlayer links here when a good part of the Ship can't see them.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Get thyself a proxy?
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
I'm sure that thyere was just enough non-standard stuff about its boiler and framing that it was a candidate for withdrawal as soon as enough diesels were around.
I think the incident where it broke a bogie and fell off the rails at Peterborough didn't help it much either...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
You guys be careful out there. After several summers of working as a tour guide near an historic railway, I know how you enthusiasts are willing to risk life and limb to get a good picture. The link above shows just how close it can get.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I used to subscribe to TRAINS magazine. Safety was always an issue, it was common sense that the tracks were trafficked and to be avoided at all costs. Overpasses were much preferred for that reason. Plus the dangers of trespass.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Well, Bree, A-class #1218 sits in the Virginia Museum of Transportation. She used to run on the Norfolk & Western as part of their steam program (along with J-class 611), so maybe you will get your wish.
But, when it comes to 6-6- articulateds, make mine an Allegheny. 2-6-6-6. Now, that's a firebox!
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
The bigger the firebox, the more coal you can (and will) burn. 1218 was not returned to service because the costs of operation were too high for the number of tickets they could sell.
No-one has worked out a satisfactory way of getting the line-siders to contribute enough to the cost of running the train.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Huh? The Steam Railroad Institute in Michigan has successfully run a Pere Marquette Berkshire, 1225, for the last several seasons. She is in the shop for her 15-year FRA inspection (and that will cost a fortune), but I think that the passenger load paid for the coal and routine maintenance. (She sells out months in advance for several Santa Claus trains). And, SP 4449 has run successfully since the 1970s, through the efforts of dedicated volunteers in Portland.
And yes, obviously, big fireboxes mean big coal bills. But when you are a coal-hauling road like the N&W or the C&O, my guess is that coal could be had a lot cheaper than if you are operating miles from the coalfields.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
True, but the economics of coal have changed dramatically in the last 50 years.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
A restored loco is probably owned and operated by a separate entity from the railroad in question (pace UP in the US and CP in Canada), and it certainly won't be subsidised by the coal-hauling part of a larger corporate entity.
CP makes enough to keep their Hudson on the road by running super-expensive special tours for those as can afford it, so they've found a niche where a Hudson is economic (just). Tours like BCR's Royal Hudson don't make the bucks. I don't know how UP keeps 844 on the road.
I'm pretty sure that larger firebox on 1218 will keep her off the road.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Oh, neither 611 nor 1218 will be put back on the rails by the Norfolk Southern, nor will the CSX again run a "Chessie Steam Special," as the Chessie System did in the 1970s. The economics of modern rail traffic demand that those rails be occupied, for as much time as possible, by revenue-generating freight trains.
My point is that a restored steam locomotive operated by a volunteer group CAN make enough to keep that locomotive operating, provided that the volunteer group is smart about it and has a large and devoted staff. That is true both of GS-4 4449 and the Pere Marquette Berkshire 1225, and hopefully of other locomotives elsewhere in North America.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
UP won't let any steam locos but 844 and its Challenger run on UP rails. Obstensibly for liability reasons, it does reserve all the steam excursions to 844 and the Challenger.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Interesting news from the Continent:
quote:
A new Swiss prototype wheel design allows trains to adapt to different sized rails. The technology finally solves a century-old problem between Montreux and Interlaken, where two different types of railway track force travellers to change trains [...].
Further links in the article.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I don't get this. The Spanish AVE trains already have gauge changers for through running.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Mr. Spouse
Ship's Pedant
# 3353
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Posted
Yup. Looks very similar to the Talgo system but with an axle. The gauge change is much greater though - 400mm compared to 233mm between France & Spain.
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Try to have a thought of your own, thinking is so important. - Blackadder
Posts: 1814 | From: Here, there & everywhere | Registered: Sep 2002
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
435mm, to be precise.
Yes, I think the difference between standard gauge (1435mm) and Swiss narrow gauge (1000mm) is rather big. But the other new aspect appears to be this, as far as I can see: quote:
Engineers have also built in another feature allowing trains to adjust for different platform heights.
Talgos don't do this. Here, it seems a helpful add-on as normal gauge platform are considerably higher up than narrow gauge ones (55cm vs. 35cm). I've just found a brochure with illustrations on this here (click on 'brochure').
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I also sort of recollect there has been at some time a way of doing this at the break between standard and Russian gauge. But I agree, standard to metre or vice versa is a much bigger shift. Also how different are the other measurements, wheel profiles etc? Otherwise the effect would be a bit like running old fashioned Triang on scale track.
I'd imagine it is easier to change gauge with unpowered axles. It might be harder to design a system that would work with powered ones.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I'd imagine it is easier to change gauge with unpowered axles. It might be harder to design a system that would work with powered ones.
Which prompts the question, how do the TALGO locomotives tackle this problem at the Franco-Spanish border? Or do they simply duck the issue by changing engines?
I can see how it would be possible to undertake a gauge conversion where the traction motor is frame mounted and drives the axle via a prop shaft, but I believe this approach is very unusual (didn't the British APT use something of the sort ~ shaft drive from within the power-car body?). How you would deal with a nose-hung traction motor defeats me, particularly if moving from a wider gauge to a narrower. Aren't traction motors usually fitted to the internal dimensions of the bogie? So a traction motor for Spanish gauge would be rather bigger than one for Swiss mountain gauge?
Questions, questions
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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