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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: The SoF Railway Enthusiasts' Thread
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
There were two brakemen during the steam era, one at the head end in the locomotive and one at the rear in the caboose. The rear brakeman was also known as the flagman.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
One might wish to add that there are double (or multiple) line sections in Britain which are signalled for reversible working. This helps if there are any hitches on one or other line, although I suspect that the speed allowed on the "wrong" line is slower than on the "right" line.
There are no tablets or tokens involved - control is done centrally from the switch panel in the signalling centre, and through the lineside signalling with approach control (i.e. signals stay at read to slow a train down before it crosses to the other line, then turn to green). Does anyone know if drivers also get advised by radio if they have to change lines?
Radio control block for single line working (used on the East Suffolk Line, also in Wales ands Scotland) was first pioneered on the narrow-gauge Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway. This uses "virtual" tablets, obtaained by the driver stopping at block points and phoning for permission to proceed. But a new system is now superseding it, certainly in Wales.
Talking of permissive block: a couple of stories from Hungary a few years back, both with passenger trains on double-track electrified main line. At one station, the power was off with maintenance being carried out. A diesel banker drew up to the rear of the train without coupling up, horns were sounded, the diesel set off pushing. When the electric loco got back onto a powered section, there was more hooting and the diesel simply slowed down to let the train proceed.
In another place, single line working was in force for track renewals. The ploy was to wait for three or four passenger trains to arrive and then send them through all together, buffered up but not coupled. Presumably the first train (which I was on) continued into the next section and the others would then let the signalling sort them out!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Enoch:
Dispatchers have a complete timetable and list of every train order issued. Train orders were issued in triplicate and repeated back to the dispatcher to ensure correctness. Everything was written down and logged multiple times.
A Dispatcher would have every order issued with respect to his territory in front of him.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
ISTM that accidents related to the dispatcher's work were extremely rare. Problems due to failures out on the line (broken rails, sun kinks, locomotive failures, hot boxes...) would complicate things, hence the availability of men who could go out along the line to set flags and fusees to alert oncoming traffic. And someone could go up a pole to connect a telegraph key to alert the dispatcher if needed.
But you had to work with what you had in that era, and that demanded that everyone get their act together and that the rules were totally enforceable, or the whole system stopped.
Oh, and BTW, the track crews had to have copies of the orders as well, so they knew when there was enough time to do their jobs. I've no idea how they learned about changes in the plan once they were out on the line.
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Obviously the Dispatcher system worked, because one would hear about breakdowns of the system fairly quickly (mostly in the shape of one very loud bang). However, I don't quite see how traffic requirements in North American were incompatible with some form of electric staff / electric tablet control, such as the Tyer's Patent system in this country. Essentially, the system combined the telegraph with the train staff, connecting together what were effectively tablet magazines at either end of a section of single line. Only one tablet could be out of the two magazines at any one time, but that tablet could have been taken from either machine and could be replaced in either machine. Provided the train in the section was carrying the correct tablet, the possibility of collision was eliminated.
Of course, that assumes that the rules were observed. The Abermule/Abermiwl collision on the Cambrian Railway demonstrated what could happen if rules were not observed. On that occasion, the driver of a train that had just arrived at Abermule had the token from the previous section returned to him through an oversight, even though he was heading onwards, not back. Contrary to the rules, he did not check that he had been issued with the right token and proceeded into the next section, where he met (and was killed by) the train coming from the other end carrying the correct token.
And, as I commented earlier in the thread, train orders were not infallible ~ vide the Thorpe accident. In fairness to the individuals concerned, that incident was not down to anybody forgetting about a train, but was, once again, down to rules not being obeyed.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I think the best way to think about it is there is more than one way to skin a cat. Not that I have been looking at the Cats thread or anything. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
In counterpoint, Darllenwr, I simply cannot fathom the fact that British timetables did not specify train superiority by class, right or direction. To me that is the fundamental starting point for controlling train traffic. It's just like the rules of the road. What do you do when two trains need to meet? Who gives way?
In North America with low traffic densities and long distances, train orders worked well. Trains had enough crew in the head and rear ends to ensure safety. The conductor and engineer could establish what was coming by the timetable and train order they had, and there were enough trainmen to protect the train with flags, lights and fusees*. Essentially we accepted that trains would have to meet each other and ensured that each train crew had enough information to act appropriately and safely according to the timetable, train orders and rule book.
With long distances and low densities, the key question is to what to do when the timetable needs to be varied due to inevitable delays.
Also, when we say single-track, that often means a 300 mile stretch of track with nobody living on it with five passing tracks. In places like Northern Ontario that is often the case. Trains do need to pass one another, but all traffic is still in the same direction. Trains don't exit and leave the main line except at the end of the Division.
*Small explosives places on the track to alert a train that the track up ahead was blocked.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Translation: Fusees = Detonators
I take the point about skinning cats. Part of the answer to your implied question about timetabling was a fair amount of built-in slack. Taking the Cambrian line as a case in point, with crossing points about every five miles, if a train was running late, it would simply cross at a different point to what the timetable said. This would be sorted out by the signalmen on the ground on an ad hoc basis, within the provisions made by the operating rules. I guess the key difference is distance. If a single line is essentially broken into five mile sections, then ad hoc operation is feasible. On a single line of the sort with which you are familiar, it really is unworkable, and one has to introduce the criteria of which you speak. In this country, the criteria would have been seen as superfluous: a late running train would be held at an earlier crossing point to prevent it causing delays to other services. Unless it was an express, in which case it might be given priority in the hope that lost time might be made up. To some degree, local knowledge could be important ~ if the signalmen knew that the crew of the late-running train had a reputation for regaining lost time, they would be given a clear run. As I said, very ad hoc and only possible on the sort of line where everything is packed close together.
E.T.A. Cross-posted
[ 28. October 2009, 22:17: Message edited by: Darllenwr ]
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Thanks Darllenwr. I don't think I've seen the Welsh spelling of Abermule before.
I think it's fair to say that the people writing the timetables would normally time all other trains to wait for an express passenger, two lamps one over each buffer, 4 bells, and most other trains to wait rather than hold up a stopping passenger, 1 lamp below the chimney, 3-1. And a class C, lamp over right buffer and in middle, shouldn't be held up by some wandering unfitted or a shunter/trip/pick-up or whatever the local phrase was. But I've never encountered any suggestion that trains in one direction automatically had priority over the other.
I get the impression from the various posts that one of the big differences between UK and North American practice is that in the UK trains move only because signalmen tell them they can. Drivers know where they have got to go to, and when they've got to get there, but they aren't responsible for deciding whether they can start or not. They have to do what the signalman tells them - and particularly on passenger workings also can't start until the guard blows his whistle and waves his flag (or modern equivalent)
So it isn't a question of one train giving way to the other. The one that arrives first has to stop and wait anyway.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
In North America, the following is common:
A scheduled merchandise freight (boxcars full of manufactured wares) moves over a 50 mile eastbound distance from the last station and siding and meets another merchandise freight travelling in the opposite direction (westbound), also 50 miles from the last station and siding. For the sake of argument let us say they are both of the same class, in fact according to the timetable they are Trains 113 and 114, each having the same route in the opposite direction.
There is one passing siding to the left of the line. There is nothing else around. No stations or signals.
According to the rulebook, Eastbound trains are superior to westbound trains of the same class. Therefore Train 114 which is westbound takes the siding. It stops and its brakeman muscles the switch for the siding, and the train moves in. Once in the siding the switch is muscled back into the through position. The trainmen hop out and place fusees and torpedoes. (My bad. A fusee is a flare, a torpedo is a detonator).
The eastbound train passes the westbound one (as the timetable says) and no other trains are scheduled to meet. The trainmen muscle the other switch into position and the train continues.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
One of the famous diferences between Britain and North America, in railway terms, was that in Britain, the drivers normally did not carry watches - they just went on at the "usual" pace on the assumption that they would get the time right. At stations, the guard would control the start time.
But, over here, the engineer and the conductor HAD to have watches, so they could observe timetable times and progression times to be sure they would do the meets smoothly.
Everything was done by the train crews, the telegraph operators being just communication devices.
In my example above, Allanwater Sub. in northern Ontario, 138 miles, 16 passing sidings with telegraph operators at each station, the only signals were semaphores used to tell the traincrews whether there were orders to be picked up or not. There were no signal crews or boxes. But a typical day would see 14 trains total.
The crews operated the switches, which had colour-for-route indicators built in, and it was the crew's responsibility to ensure that they didn't come to grief.
Once one train stopped, the crew had to check the other train as it passed for mechanical problems - again, personal responsibility to make sure things worked.
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Ok, an engineer not carrying a watch? That blows my mind. Speed control is central on North American rails.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
I think the best way to think about it is there is more than one way to skin a cat. Not that I have been looking at the Cats thread or anything.
I should hope not!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Thanks SPK and HB. That's a tremendous help in understanding how this works. It's a quite different way of doing things.
Drivers did usually have watches, particularly in later years, but the thing that will surprise you is that very, very few UK steam engines ever had speedometers. It was assumed that drivers knew by experience how fast they were going. This though did mean that speed restrictions on some lines were a bit erratic.
Cabs also had no lights - after all, you don't drive with the light on anyway. So at night what you couldn't see by the light of the fire when the firedoors were open, you couldn't see.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
On the GWR, at least, the driver was required to have a watch, certainly in 20th century days. The driver had a log book to fill in, booking the passing times at significant points along his route, and other pertinent information, such as where he slipped coaches. These log books were maintained for evidential reasons ~ if somebody were to be run down by a train, for example, drivers logs would be examined to determine which train had been responsible and whether any further action should be taken.
For further information on this subject, refer to the books by Harold Gasson, a former GWR fireman. A driver was lost without his watch.
Also on the GWR, only the 4-cylinder 4-6-0's ever had speedometers (Stars, Castles and Kings). On all other classes of engine, the drivers had to work it out for themselves.
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
I simply cannot fathom the fact that British timetables did not specify train superiority by class, right or direction. To me that is the fundamental starting point for controlling train traffic. It's just like the rules of the road. What do you do when two trains need to meet? Who gives way?
You may have got the wrong end of the stick there - UK trains most certainly are split into classes. They range from Class 1 (express passenger) to Class 8 (slow freight).
BUT - as UK trains use the timetable to determine where and when they will pass, train class only has an effect when a signalman has to decide which of two trains to prioritise in the event of one of them running late. This is generally only an issue when the trains are going in the same direction, as most of the UK is double (or more) track anyway.
There's also not the issue at passing places on single track lines of which train has to go into the siding/which crew has to operate the points, as passing loops in the UK are effectively short lengths of double track with left-hand running, and the points are controlled by the signalman.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Most locomotives over here didn't have speedometers either until 20 years ago. Railways felt they were unreliable and prone to breakdown. Given the decrepit state of repair that many railroads were in, this was true. Speed was monitored by timing the train between mileposts and calculating the result.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
‘Can you get your head in, please?’
Last Saturday I went to the Keighley & Worth Valley annual beer and music festival. It was the first time I have been to this, and I mostly enjoyed it (even Eddie Earthquake and the Tremors playing hits from the 1950s & ‘60s were surprisingly good! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ).
But as I went downhill on my last run of the day I was leaning out of the window as we slowed, I think for Damens loop. I felt a tap on my shoulder and turned, expecting to have my ticket checked. No, the man was not in uniform, and he said something to me which I asked him to repeat ‘Can you get your head in, please?’
I was somewhat shocked, having travelled many hundreds of miles with my head out of the window , a good number of which have been on the K&WVR. So I said ‘Why?’ He mentioned something about danger if another train was to pass. But I was on the left side of the train! Even if I’d been on the right, I am so experienced at doing this, and the speed is a maximum of 25mph, that there would be a negligible risk. I did bring my head in, but only till he’d gone. He did pass later and ordered me to get my head in again. I didn’t oblige ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif) and he didn’t follow it up. Good job, as I was close to a ‘train rage’ incident!
I can only assume that insurers or health & safety zealots have made this railway (and others) have some poor, unfortunate bugger of a volunteer go up and down the train ‘enforcing’ this policy.
The irony is that at least three coaches in every Worth Valley set are compartment stock and he couldn’t have done this in those! Which is why I moved carriages at Ingrow West!
But what a worrying sign of the times! I would rarely want to travel behind steam if I couldn’t lean out of the window at least some of the time.
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
What do you do when two trains need to meet? Who gives way?
In the old days I think the signalman decided. Based on the timetable.
Of course there were rules when the timetable doesn't specify. Local variants I think, but in general they are obvious ones - goods give way to passenger traffic, mainline to branch line, slow trains to express. In the morning up trains take priority, in the evening down trains. (Directions in British railways traditionally are not things like "east" or "west" but "up" or "down" - that is towards or away from somewhere - almost always London!)
These days I suspect all that is scrapped in most places. Rules will be decided by agreement between train operating companies during the long and absurdly expensive negotiations that lead up to the production of the timetable.
And in practice decisions are made centrally in real time in the interests of keeping the service running. If a train has to get somewhere in time to make another journey it might be given priority, or even turned round early and have its passengers stranded on a platform waiting for the next train - its much more like The Taking of Pelham 123 than it is like The Railway Children!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Enoch likes Cabooses. So do I. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
There were three varieties of the North American Caboose: Cupola, Bay-window and Extended Vision. Bay Window cabooses had no cupola and were single level. EV cabooses were a hybrid of the first two types.
Roads like the Baltimore & Ohio, Northern Pacific, New York Central and Milwaukee Road preferred bay-window cabooses.
I particularly like the Northeastern sytle Caboose
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
In Britain cabooses were more prosaically called "brake vans". They were often fairly rudimentary affairs but then distances are far shorter than in North America.
Most brake vans were double ended but the Great Western type - known as a "Toad" - only had a verandah at one end. I can only think of one type of van which was on bogies, the Southern Railway "Queen Mary" which was intended for fast goods traffic. Both these date back to the 1930s (the "Toad" in its variants goes back further than that). I suppose if your train was all loose-coupled four-wheelers, then you didn't need a more sophisticated brake van!
Passenger brake vans often had a little ducket sticking out of the side enabling the guard to see along the train. This disappeared with the new British Railways coaches in the 1950s. Some stock in southern England in the late 19th/early 20th century had a raised section of roof a little bit like the American caboose - these were often known as "birdcages". Many BR Southern Region guards vans - certainly the Kent Coast electric stock of 1959 and possibly some later - had a periscope to let the guard look fore and aft.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Oh, dear, SPK, symmetrical cabooses?
PROPER cabooses have the cupola offset towards one end. I offer this photoset for comparisons. 14, 15 and 24 as you scroll down give the best images of proper cabooses, although I always thought that CP's cupolas were too tall.
Here is a well-restored example.
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And in practice decisions are made centrally in real time in the interests of keeping the service running. If a train has to get somewhere in time to make another journey it might be given priority, or even turned round early and have its passengers stranded on a platform waiting for the next train - its much more like The Taking of Pelham 123 than it is like The Railway Children!
Either turned round early, or ordered to speed through and omit scheduled stops in order to make up time (and avoid fines for the operators): no thought to those hoping to get off at Little Minimarket instead of being swept along to Bankers City. Let alone the rainsodden crowds waiting at Cloudburst Halt.
But let not this hellish glimpse of modern reality stop this wonderful nostalgiafest.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Good Heavens! As if symmetrical cabooses weren't bad enough, now we have the outright heresy of a train leaving the station before the advertised time! Is nothing sacred?
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
Priority when passenger trains crossed was decided by local custom. Most systems had some sort of classification system, so the Irish have "A" for expresses; "B" for local passenger; down to "X" (IRC) for departmental trains.
In the event that two passenger trains of the same rank crossed, the usual practice in ETS days was for Dublin bound trains to take precedence in the morning and Country-bound trains in the evening. This was a matter of convenience.
In Britain, the usual situation is that the working timetable governs who goes first when trains of the same class cross. Thus if 1A36 and 1A37 meet on a single line, it is the working timetable that decides; though if things go pear-shaped the signalman, or in extreme cases divisional control makes the decision.
With ETS, it usually takes 2-4 minutes for two trains to cross. In the days of token catchers you could have quite a long wait if an express was due and you were riding the slow train.
1. Your train would arrive from A, give up the token covering the section A to B.
2. The A to B token is restored to the machine to release the A end signals.
3. The token would then be withdrawn placed in a pouch and put in the land-based tablet catcher.
4. The express would dump its C to B token into a net and collect the B to A token in the cab side apparatus. The signals at the A end of the station would then be returned to danger.
5. The token for C to B would then be restored to the ETS machine, releasing the signals at that end of the station allowing the route to be set and the starter pulled off for the train departing for C.
6. The C to B token is withdrawn, placed in a pouch and handed to the driver of the stopping train.
7. The stopping train could then depart, and after that train has departed the signals at the C end are returned to danger.
This process was quite cumbersome, leading to some extended station stops for slow passenger trains on single track routes with express passenger services. However, it was pretty idiot proof. What went wrong at Abermule was firstly that the ETS instrments were not in the signal cabin, but in the station building, which meant the people other than the signalman handled the ETS. In theory, the ETS machines were the responsibility of the stationmaster, but in practice whoever was handy dealt with the ETS. Secondly, the driver of one of the trains failed to check that he had been given
On single track routes with heavy passenger traffic, ETS has been all but totally replaced by track circuit block where the locking is done electronically, or by full blown CTC. A few ETS installations survive, but several of them ae operated by train crews under the supervision of a remote signalman. For example, the ETS instruments at Battersby, Glaisdale, and Whitby, and the intermediate block instrument at Grosmont are all under the control of the signalman at Nunthorpe.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Is this where we play Mornington Crescent ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
This thread is going to get sent straight to Eccles next H&A Day. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!
*collapses into a sobbing heap*
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Pats Think² on the back
Kid, how could you? ITTWACW! ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I thought this was a Car website? ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
I thought this was a Car website?
I hadn't realised the Antichrist had struck
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Huge news: Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway just bought the entire Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad for $34 Billion.
Article here.
Wow.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
At least in North America you can buy a railway. Here you can only get a short term operating lease on someone else's track. If you want your own railway, all you can have is a model one.
You can though have a collection of engines and hire them out to operators who are short of them.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
I have read something today, that has made me ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) and .
Five enthusiasts were overheard arguing about the appropriate colour of hi-vis jackets, to be worn by Photographers, for a railway setting, on the Isle of Man. Apparently they were incensed that two photographers were wearing Yellow, rather than Orange, vests.
Amazing.
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Lord Pontivillian , what is the correct colour for the Isle? Is it like blue stoles at Royal Peculiars, or does it depend on the time of the year? Perhaps this thread should go to Eccles for a full exploration of all the issues involved.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
At least they were incensed. I trust in proper hierarchical order (ie Fat Controller first).
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I guess I'm my usual self then, being partial to the Diesel Reformation.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Speaking as one planted firmly in the Old Order, I would have to say that you simply aren't on a Real Train if there isn't Steam present!
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Pontivillian:
I have read something today, that has made me and .
Five enthusiasts were overheard arguing about the appropriate colour of hi-vis jackets, to be worn by Photographers, for a railway setting, on the Isle of Man. Apparently they were incensed that two photographers were wearing Yellow, rather than Orange, vests.
Amazing.
Gee, what is the world coming to - the Isle of Man Railway using high-vis vests. In my day it was strictly an oily boiler suit operation for those at the smokey end, blue uniforms for the staff, and "watch yerself" for railway enthusiasts taking photographs. Mind you, the IMR of the late-1970s would have sent mainland HSE people nuts - staff and ticket operation, few full height platforms (actually few of any sort), no continuous brakes on passenger trains running at up to 40mph, and some distinctly "wobbly irons." As the IMR is regulated by Tynwald not Westminster, the 1889 Railways Act does not apply there, yet inspite of their archaic working practices they have had very few accidents and even fewer serious ones.
One old truism on the IMR was that with the small boiler Beyer Peacock locomotives was that you had a choice of steam heat, or continuous brakes - neither if the engine was steaming badly! Nowadays they do use continuous brake - vacuum bakes were installed in the 1920s, but were often not used as there is no statuary requirement for them - but I think it is still a staff and ticket operation.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
PD , is what you are setting out the Traditional clothing, or is it Dearmerite? And the oil - has it been properly blessed?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
HB, you have authority behind you. This might get us forcibly transferred to Kerygmania, but what about Is 6:4:-
"And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house [of the Lord]was filled with smoke".
Also, the warhorse in Job 41:-
"Out of his nostrils comes forth smoke, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes".
It's obvious what sort of engine is a true engine.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
What is everyone's favourite Station. I personally love Cardiff Central for its variety, though Temple Meads and Manchester Piccadilly are amazing architecturally.
I like Cardiff Central because you have a massive range of trains.
You get everything from Class 142 DMUs to top'n'tailed Class 67s on the Holyhead services. One also often sees some kind of Freight going through the Station, usually hauled by a Class 66 although there is currently a Class 57 in the station throat.
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I like Temple Meads, though it would be better if the terminal platforms with the hammer beam roof were still in use. I also like Paddington, St Pancras as it was, York and Newcastle. There's a pattern there. They've all got imposing roofs, some of them have imposing frontages and they're all busy. One less well known one was Buxton where fifty years ago there used to be two matching stations next to each other, but one of them is long gone and the other is dull on its own.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Stations: St Pancras surely takes the crown. Enoch's comment 'as it was' presumably expresses regret at the crappy extension, shoving the Midland main line out the back; hard to fault the restoration of the main station though (except for the naff and cheesy statue of the embracing couple).
Otherwise: Newcastle Central beats York in my opinion: similar sweep of the main train shed, but a beautiful classical building, and a genuine mediaeval castle almost engulfed by the tracks.
Huddersfield is another classical gem.
For sheer incongruity the prize ought to go to Hammersmith (Hammersmith and City terminus): it wouldn't be out of place in some Wiltshire market town, instead of at the end of a busy metro line in the biggest city in Europe. [Is London that still, or does Berlin or somewhere beat it now?]
Modern stations: in Britain the new Leeds is impressive (and they've nicely restored the Art Deco ex-LMS concourse). Holden's Underground stations - definitely modern even if they date back to the 30s - are iconic, as are some of the recent Jubilee line stations. But I doubt if any of them are as heart-stoppingly exciting as some of the new German and Spanish stations, which I have only seen on paper. And in Italy of course there is S Maria Novella in Florence and Rome Termini - again dating from the 1930s.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Remebering my loco-spotting days lo! these many years ago (1956), I can remember Temple Meads as an exciting place - great curving trainshed with far too much platform and all the "other" tracks/platforms where one went because one could see the roads into the engine servicing area.
Not to mention the sudden appearances of Midland-powered trains in or out of the old station - usually when one was too far away to cop the numbers...
And the tantalising views of goods trains on the avoiding line, always much too far away for a number...
All wreathed in fog and coal smoke
Desperately unmodern, but fun.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Hmmm, favourite stations.
Hamilton's Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo Station. One of the rare examples of Art Deco railway architecture in Canada. The TH&B is elevated through downtown Hamilton, so the tracks are on the second level.
For sheer Art Deco grandeur there is of course Cincinnati Union Terminal. One of the last Union Stations built, it was a bit of a white elephant, but grand.
Ottawa Union Station was classically grand.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
Favourite? Damems, the tiniest station in the country.
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by amber.:
Favourite? Damems, the tiniest station in the country.
Good one. Neighbouring Keighley, though by no means the smallest, being a four-platformed junction, is a beautifully-preserved example of a real station. The half that is owned by the KWVR has been restored extremely well (but inaccurately, in that the BR-style signs are in Midland maroon rather than North Eastern orange, as they would have been in BR days), and Northern Rail have had a good go at doing up the main-line half to match. I love the wooden ramps (instead of stairs) to the platforms, and the Edwardian balustrades.
And of course it's one of the few stations where you are likely to catch a glimpse of electric, diesel and steam traction all at once.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Well for views of those I have been to Crianlarich is pretty hard to beat. They have a cafe there which serves a good coffee. If you are going to Oban and the Wester Isles, this is where you get off the sleeper to get the first train from Glasgow to Oban.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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