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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Videos & Pictures
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Treatise:
And, most importantly, are these prelates turning in the proper directions?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Treatise:
So, Leo,
I'm not Leo, but I am an Anglican, insofar as Episcopalians are still Anglicans (see below)....
quote:
how does this old classic look, to an Anglican?
The less said, the better.
quote:
Or this?
This is the sort of liturgy Anglicans come up with when they don't want to be in the same church as a gay bishop! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:
And, most importantly, are these prelates turning in the proper directions?
Delightful! I wish my bishop could dance like that!!!! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) The Anglican Communion would be much better off if we had more dancing bishops.
Don't Catholic bishops from the Global South dance? If not, I'm sure the Anglican bishops could teach them. It might take their minds off Gene Robinson for a while!
By the way, the prelates are dancing to "We Are Marching in the Light of God!" a classic South African freedom song. Here it is sung in a Croatian Catholic Church.
We celebrate South Africa Freedom day in my parish, and the Zulu priest on our parish staff dances beautifully to it during the procession.
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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Treatise
Shipmate
# 4255
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Posted
quote:
Don't Catholic bishops from the Global South dance? If not, I'm sure the Anglican bishops could teach them. It might take their minds off Gene Robinson for a while!
Absolutely they do and, on the right occasions (at least in West Africa), you can see the Anglican and RC bishops dance together. I just hope that the Roman bishops turn in the right direction and don't embarrass us.
[ 27. May 2008, 00:26: Message edited by: Treatise ]
Posts: 227 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If only they would turn in the direction of love instead of bigoted fundamentalism and homophobia.
Did you recognize the particular bishops in the clip? If not, I don't think it's fair to assume they embrace bigoted fundamentalism and homophobia. Despite what folks like ++Akinola claim, many Global South bishops are at least willing to be tolerant of the steps taken in TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada. The Primate of Brazil, for example, is a firm friend of TEC.
Dubious
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I guess I stereotype Happy Clappies.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Hostly albe ON
Leo - you've been here quite long enough to know that Dead Horses do not belong in Ecclesiantics.
You should also be able to remember that the Ten Commandments are pretty clear that racism is not accepted on the Ship at all. Your comments come very close to judging that all Latin Americans are homophobic based purely upon their ethnicity.
Everybody else, no further derailment of the thread.
Hostly albe OFF
[embarassing edit because I hadn't seen the clip was south america...]
[ 28. May 2008, 13:59: Message edited by: dj_ordinaire ]
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
Does anyone know anything about St John's Detroit? Here they are singing Mattins -- and are the ladies of teh choir wearing black beanies?
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
My understanding is that they're Detroit's flagship Anglo-Catholic parish, and are 1928 BCP/Anglican Missal in worship practice. The rector is a "Son of the House" and a brother of the SSC. On two Sundays each month they have the "Frankenmass," which I imagine is what is depicted in the video.
Interesting that they skip the second pair of preces. I thought that was a 1979 thing.
[ 28. May 2008, 17:31: Message edited by: LQ ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Does anyone know anything about St John's Detroit? Here they are singing Mattins -- and are the ladies of teh choir wearing black beanies?
St John's is a 1928 BCP parish that's being led up the candle by its rector; in recent years things such as Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament have been introduced. Once a month, I believe they have Matins leading into Holy Communion at the main service.
A few bishops ago, they were in a battle with the diocese over use of the 1928 BCP; the current bishop simply requires the parish to use BCP 1979 Rite I, from a prepared and approved booklet, when he visits and during any diocesan events there (I attended a diocesan convention there some years ago).
St John's has apparently grown in membership, finances, and quality of music program in the past several years. It's also become known as the church whose rector is a sort of chaplain to the Detroit Tigers baseball team, whose stadium is nearby. This may be an official chaplain status or not; I'm not sure. They display a large banner sometimes that says, "Pray here for the Tigers."
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frito Bandito:
It seems that life-sized puppets were also used at the Palm Sunday and Easter masses at the (in)famous St. Joan of Arc Parish, Minneapolis. I'm all for entertaining the kiddies, but read and weep.
Video here.
I wonder if they are the same people that are in the Central California video?
Looks like Father Z must be trolling the Ship, since he has now zeroed in on the follies of St. Joan.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Low Treason:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by jmoskal:
Ok. Can someone explain the meaning behind this video..especially from the middle to the end of the video. Don't mean to knock anyone but this is a first for me.
Closing Hymn of Palm Sunday on Youtube
I can actually see flags at the start of the service. People are waiving around palms, perhaps a few flags don’t clash that bad- maybe not traditional, but not that there's anything wrong with that. I haven’t seen the entire liturgy, so I will not comment about how well they fit in at the end (even if I could see the entire liturgy, that discussion would probably belong in hell anyway). I do have to say that I got a kick out of the limp-wristed kid with the red flag (and by that, I mean the fact that he is letting his wrist do all the swinging, and I sure wouldn’t want him as my doubles partner), and the person with the very loud very upper-Midwestern American voice who must be standing next to the camera or microphone.
I suppose ( very reluctantly) that there might be a tenuous link to the flags in the context of a triumphal entry into Jerusalem, but why does the clergyperson have to hail a cab several times during that hymn???? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
I just read this, and realize it's more than a month old, but I see that no one has responded and I would like to! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I worship with an ecumenical group that is "low church," and gestures like "hailing a cab" are very common. Though I am somewhat liturgical, I often lift my hand or hands during worship.
That gesture that looks like hailing a cab is saying, "To God be the Glory." It's a gesture of praise, as if acknowledging that God is high in the heavens.
The flags are a relatively new worship tool and I view them as a way of visibly demonstrating the lifting up of prayers and praises. Like all liturgies and customs, it is a way of making worship more concrete to the worshiper. We like those customs (whether flags or high liturgy) because it helps us worship God; God does not need them in order to be worshiped. Even the highest-of-the-high church people acknowledge that.
What I find interesting is how people develop liturgy even though they're trying to be "free-style" in worship. So, our low-church brothers and sisters are, in their own way, almost as liturgical as we liturgical types.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Those St. John's Detroit videos are great. Speaking of how to grow an Anglo-Catholic parish . . . the rector even includes a video of which freeways and exits to take to reach the church.
Kudos both to Father Kelley for his efforts and to the Bishop of Michigan for not stomping on a parish that wants to keep the old Prayer Book.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
I don't remember seeing this one mentioned before -- some homiletic advice:
Before he speaks
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Nice - but a bit nostaligic. Wish they handed the thurible to one another properly and did 3 trebles not doubles.
They also have clips of the (sung) eucharistic prayer and angelus.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Angelus
Shipmate
# 10081
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Posted
Leo said: quote:
Wish they handed the thurible to one another properly and did 3 trebles not doubles.
In the modern rite there are no triple swings:
Monsignor Elliott's COTMRR 680:
"Kneeling, all bow and the celebrant incenses the Eucharist with three double swings"
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Praise to the Holiest in the height,
and in the depth be praise;
in all his words most wonderful,
most sure in all his ways!
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
My own pastor uses all the old circles over the gifts during the offertory. I hadn't realized, until recently, that they aren't called for in the new liturgy.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Benediction at St Julian's, Norwich
Thank you very much for this, Oblatus - I have never been to St. Julian's for Benediction, but I know what a beautiful, peaceful place it is...
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Flinging wide the gates...
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Benediction at St Julian's, Norwich
Thank you very much for this, Oblatus - I have never been to St. Julian's for Benediction, but I know what a beautiful, peaceful place it is...
You're welcome.
While I love to see and hear video and audio files of exquisitely sung Masses and Evensongs, I also love those that show a more typical congregation, perhaps a small one, sing a service robustly if not with perfect vocal technique. This video showed me the prayerful attention the St Julian's congregation pays to the Blessed Sacrament.
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Speaking of St John's, Detroit, here's the most anti-climactic Benediction of all time.
Was the server asleep?
The priest missed out bits of the Divine Praises I'm sure! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I have been to only one Anglican church that uses the unexpurgated Divine Praises.
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
I have been to only one Anglican church that uses the unexpurgated Divine Praises.
Pond difference. I noticed a cut up Divine Praises in Australia too and it really annoyed me. In the CofE you are likely to hear it straight out of the book.
[Insert comment about how the Anglicans certainly are known for picking and choosing] [/post]
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Nice - but a bit nostaligic. Wish they handed the thurible to one another properly and did 3 trebles not doubles.
"newer Rites of Grace prevail"
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
[Insert comment about how the Anglicans certainly are known for picking and choosing] [/post]
Max
I'm going to remind you of this statement one day. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
In my TEC parish, we recite the whole of the Divine Praises at our monthly E. & B. I have never seen anyone storm out in rage.
Greta
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I'm more concerned with the silent Benediction. How much of a downer is that?
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
I have been to only one Anglican church that uses the unexpurgated Divine Praises.
I suppose it depends which book one uses for the text of the Divine Praises. The date is what's important, because often it's not a case of getting an "expurgated" version so much as an earlier version.
The original Divine Praises were composed as a reparation against blasphemy by a Jesuit in the late eighteenth century. Pope Pius VII attached an indulgence to them in 1801, then Popes started adding to them:
Blessed be her Holy and Immaculate Conception - Pius IX in 1854
Blessed be His Most Sacred Heart - Leo XIII in 1897
Blessed be St Joseph, her most chaste spouse - Benedict XV in 1921
Blessed be her Glorious Assumption - Pius XII in 1950
Blessed be His Most Precious Blood - John XXIII in 1960
Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete - Paul VI in 1964
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
Yet, at least in some Anglo-Catholic quarters, it used to be the case that the parts about the Assumption and Immaculate Conception were explicitly deleted because they gave American Episcopalians cases of the vapors. The old St. Augustine's Prayer Book from the 60s, for instance, included the later bit about the Paraclete, but not the earlier Marian bits.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Random Cathoholic
Shipmate
# 13129
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frito Bandito:
Yet, at least in some Anglo-Catholic quarters, it used to be the case that the parts about the Assumption and Immaculate Conception were explicitly deleted because they gave American Episcopalians cases of the vapors.
Interestingly, in the Church of My Yoof (somewhere in the middle of the UK) they had Benediction every Sunday outside Lent, and the only bit missing was the Immaculate Conception.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
I am not meaning to dispute that various Anglicans are selective in what they include - as I understand it that's the Anglican way! I am trying to point out that the Divine Praises have expanded significantly down the years. In fact, I'm quite surprised that JPII didn't tamper as well. After all, he added mysteries to the rosary, and "Queen of the family" to the Litany of Loreto. What might he have added to the Divine Praises? Answers on a postcard to the CDF!
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Blessed be His Most Precious Blood - John XXIII in 1960
I can't remember where on earth I got it from but I have it in my head that Blessed John XXIII added this at the encouragement of an Anglican delegation to the Vatican. It might not make sense but it makes me feel all warm and cuddly. Does anyone know if there's any truth in it?
For what it's worth, I don't recall ever being to a Benediction, Anglican or Catholic, which 'edited'/'used earlier' Divine Praises.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
erm, I think not, sorry!
John XXIII had a devotion to the Precious Blood from his childhood, and even wrote an Apostolic Letter about it, Inde a Primis. (Unfortunately it's only in latin and portuguese on the Vatican site).
The great apostle of this devotion was St Gaspar del Bufalo, to whom Papa Giovanni had a great attachment
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
The original Divine Praises were composed as a reparation against blasphemy by a Jesuit
Against Blasphemy by a Jesuit or Against Blasphemy, by a Jesuit? ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
I'm bad.
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
very amusing
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
...and why the intrusive cantor with hands all a-flutter?
It is way away from my tradition but I found the service, and particularly the music, very uplifting. Personally, I did not find the cantor (or more precisely, the video editing of her inclusion) intrusive, and thought she added to the worship. But we differ on these things.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
I have been to only one Anglican church that uses the unexpurgated Divine Praises.
Pond difference. I noticed a cut up Divine Praises in Australia too and it really annoyed me. In the CofE you are likely to hear it straight out of the book.
[Insert comment about how the Anglicans certainly are known for picking and choosing] [/post]
Max
Although I am happy with the Assumption, I am not sure about the Immaculate Conception. This is true for many Anglicans so many of our churches leave out those statements in the Divine Praises.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
In some places, "Conception" is retained, but without the I-word.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
It must be so difficult to be an Anglican, where you constantly have to decide what you believe before you can say a prayer. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
I'm in the mood for a nice bottle of Coca-Catholic!
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
It must be so difficult to be an Anglican, where you constantly have to decide what you believe before you can say a prayer.
I thought that such were the Unitarians? Or are they the ones who get all bent out of shape over the wording in hymns? Or both?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
It must be so difficult to be an Anglican, where you constantly have to decide what you believe before you can say a prayer.
I thought that such were the Unitarians? Or are they the ones who get all bent out of shape over the wording in hymns? Or both?
the inclusive language crowd? You get them in every church except .........the Orthodox Church , thanks be to GOD
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
It must be so difficult to be an Anglican, where you constantly have to decide what you believe before you can say a prayer.
I thought that such were the Unitarians? Or are they the ones who get all bent out of shape over the wording in hymns? Or both?
the inclusive language crowd? You get them in every church except .........the Orthodox Church , thanks be to GOD
I bet that the orthodox will have inclusive language some time after the next one thousand years have elapsed.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
In some places, "Conception" is retained, but without the I-word.
The Conception - immaculate or otherwise - of the BVM is obviously unique and very special, as no other saint has his or her conception commemorated in the Church Kalendar.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Wouldn't the Annunciation count as Jesus'?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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