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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Videos & Pictures
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
Have just watched the Mass video from St Nicholas.It is a laudable attempt to recreate a normal parochial Mass such as it would be celebrated before the big changes of the 1960s.
Although Anglo-Catholics seem to celebrate High Mass at the drop of a biretta, it was uncommon to have High Mass in a Roman church,except on great occasions, unless in a cathedral or monastery.
In the Liturgy of the Word (or Mass of the Catechumens) the Epistle would not have been chanted at a Missa Cantata or at a High Mass.Only the Gospel would have been chanted.
Usually in UK the epistle and Gospel would be read by the celebrant in English at the Sermon time. In France it was quite common for another priest,apart from the celebrant to give a commentary during Mass,as is heard at the Offertory here, and to read the Epistle and Gospel in French, at the time the celebrant would read it in Latin. Since the Gospel is chanted it is read in French afterwards.
Whilst there were lots of little 'enfants de choeur' here (altar boys) it would not be unusual to have a good number, though nothing like the number there. It was a good way ultimately of encouraging future vocations,or so it was believed.
The priest removed his chasuble during the sermon. By the late 1950s I only remember very old priests who would do that but it was interesting,as were his words 'mes freres' instead of more modern 'freres et soeurs' IN Uk the priest would talk about 'my dear brethren' and also he said 'ainsi soit-il' 'thus may it be' as Amen was only used in the liturgy until the 1960s.
(ps freres = brothers : soeurs = sisters)
The white cloth put over the altar rail where the communicants received was also a memory from the past and as the last person said the last gospel, being counted as a private devotion of the priest was not chanted and might well have something else sung or music played while the priest was reading it.
I once met an american who had been to Lourdes and when I asked him what he thought of it,he said he had been overawed by St Pix's church. It took me some time to work out that he was talking about the basilica of St Pie X. (St Pius the Tenth)Language translation is,I quite accept, a difficult and tricky matter.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
I thought the St. Nicholas parish mass was quite admirable as well, though I hope that the priest wasn't preaching on the revolutionary Jewish-Masonic conspiracy and this-or-that Cardinal's supposed sinister cooperation with the same. not. Some of the SSPX crowd really gets into these kook far-right conspiracy theories.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
I can assure you that on this occasion there was zilch about a Jewish-Masonic plot. I do agree with you that some of this group are indeed far to the right politically, but there must be some who are there with purely religious motives.There was a real attempt in the video to show a good cross section of the populace -from babies to senior citizens with a good sprinkling of young adults as well. I have never been toMass in this church ,but have been in the church since this group regularly use it for Mass. I do remember a note from a priest at the entrance that even in the hot weather ladies were to remember to cover up.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Oh, be nice JACrank.
quote:
And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart... And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! 2 Samuel 6:14-16,20
As far as I can tell these people seem genuinely pious and genuinely overjoyed at the vigil. Certainly not my kind of liturgy, but far be it from me to be like Michal.
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Thanks for the St. Gregory's SF link. It may not be my cup o' tea, but it's interesting to watch.
Did anybody notice how nothing seemed dumbed down? The priests/deacons/etc. were able to make acclamations and comments in other languages, and everybody seemed to follow along (and even understand). Everybody seemed to be dancing, and the singing was rather vigorous.
Note to priests: If the priests at St. Gregory's can teach their flock to dance around the altar while singing Jesus Christ is Risen Today to the accompaniment of Native American drums, it is certainly feasible for you to teach your flock to make the sign of the cross, to bow at the processional cross, and to chant the responses to the preface dialogue unaccompanied. Dream big!
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
That was a well-done video. I didn't even flinch too much at the ObStG'sTieDyeVestments, which I hate hate hate hate HATE.
Some days are good for dancing around in church. Easter is definitely one of them in my book. I've been known to do a little on Pentecost, as well.
Charlotte
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
I'd like to see a sequel featuring the use of "warden wands." Honestly, videos like that just make me angry. That is *not* what Frs. Mackonochie and Tooth languished in prison for.
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
DIY liturgy = DIY religion. Private judgment to the nth extreme. Not that traditionalist ACs aren't guilty of the same problem, but AFAICT, St. Gregory Nyssa liturgy has little or no relationship with any living liturgical tradition - it's a mish-mash of bits the clergy happen to like sprinkled with the fairy dust of "multiculturalism."
But perhaps I am too harsh. I would pay good money for the privilege to see, in the name of multiculturalism and mutual understanding, a female circumcision liturgy joyously celebrating in that inimitable St. Gregory Nyssa style, the coming-of-age of a young woman and that wondrous bond that a daughter will always have with her mother.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JArthurCrank:
DIY liturgy = DIY religion. Private judgment to the nth extreme. Not that traditionalist ACs aren't guilty of the same problem, but AFAICT, St. Gregory Nyssa liturgy has little or no relationship with any living liturgical tradition - it's a mish-mash of bits the clergy happen to like sprinkled with the fairy dust of "multiculturalism."
Not so.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
I read the philosophy behind St. Gregory and m point stands. This so-called liturgy is a mish-mash of random pieces of liturgical practices from unrelated cultures. The cobbled-together result is something unlike any liturgy in any living liturgical tradition and more like a 1960s Be-In or counterculture gathering than a mass.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JArthurCrank:
I read the philosophy behind St. Gregory and m point stands. This so-called liturgy is a mish-mash of random pieces of liturgical practices from unrelated cultures. The cobbled-together result is something unlike any liturgy in any living liturgical tradition and more like a 1960s Be-In or counterculture gathering than a mass.
Even so, I'm glad there's a St. Gregory's, and I'm glad for their thoughtful experiments. It's a special place, and they were set up to be that way, and they are not out to make all churches do the same. I appreciate being able to see what they do, read about why, and think about what it means and why we do things our way.
And contrary to what you seem to be saying, there's a lot of study and thought behind their choices. Doesn't mean they're right and everyone else isn't, but it's also not thrown together by an uninformed committee negotiating what seems cool to do. Smart people studied and thought and then were free to do what they came up with. I find the results fascinating, can't imagine doing them here, and would personally rather accept what we have from tradition and study it and make judicious changes for good reasons. But it's valuable to have a place that has rethought everything at once.
[ 20. April 2007, 21:20: Message edited by: Scott Knitter ]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
But it's valuable to have a place that has rethought everything at once.
Perhaps as a cautionary tale, to warn us against attempting such a quixotic task. How could one ever rethink everything at once? This seems to me almost the definition of madness.
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JArthurCrank:
I read the philosophy behind St. Gregory and m point stands. This so-called liturgy is a mish-mash of random pieces of liturgical practices from unrelated cultures. The cobbled-together result is something unlike any liturgy in any living liturgical tradition and more like a 1960s Be-In or counterculture gathering than a mass.
Singapore culture (being mostly an immigrant state) creates and recreates a cultural identity, drawing from cultural sources disparate from each other. But our Anglican liturgy is either identical to the C of E in the 80s or a generally free for all American charismatic worship. Such joy of drawing from a living liturgical tradition, such wonder. I hope they sing 'God saves the Queen' again rather than our own national anthem on Independence Day.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Angelus
Shipmate
# 10081
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Posted
Just watched the Easter Vigil vid from the Intermountain Catholic site. Was all going so well until the Exultet. Wrong, just wrong.... ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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Praise to the Holiest in the height,
and in the depth be praise;
in all his words most wonderful,
most sure in all his ways!
Posts: 74 | From: Leeds, England | Registered: Aug 2005
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cor ad cor loquitur
Shipmate
# 11816
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Posted
I also watched the Intermountain Easter vigil. And yes, there were a few things that were "wrong". But all in all, it seemed a dignified and happy liturgy. If the video is any indication, they have a fine, orthodox bishop in that diocese -- he gave them a cracking good homily and clearly cared deeply about his flock. And it was good to see a crowd of newly baptised, confirmed and received. I agree with Fr TT: this called into question the many (many!) negative things I had heard about the state of RC liturgy in the US.
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Quam vos veritatem interpretationis, hanc eruditi κακοζηλίαν nuncupant … si ad verbum interpretor, absurde resonant. (St Jerome, Ep. 57 to Pammachius)
Posts: 1332 | From: London | Registered: Sep 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Except, except .....!!!!!!
They have a HUGE font into which the catechumens stepped, and then he dribbled water on their heads from the small font! ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) Those baptisms were so utterly formulaic and joyless! There could (and should) have been lashings of water. I was really saddened by the minimalism, given that I am impressed with their liturgy generally.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Angelus
Shipmate
# 10081
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Posted
Having watched it all now, I agree apart from the Exultet it was an excellent vigil. Alleluia!
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Praise to the Holiest in the height,
and in the depth be praise;
in all his words most wonderful,
most sure in all his ways!
Posts: 74 | From: Leeds, England | Registered: Aug 2005
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cor ad cor loquitur
Shipmate
# 11816
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Sorry, just as I am watching I cringe - they do that whole inclusive thing of everyone renewing vows at the Chrism Mass, totalling missing the point of it all - it's a priestly thing: the laity all renew their vows at Easter
Father, I'm glad you pointed out the Chrism mass, because I would otherwise have skipped watching it. And that would have been my loss.
I found the whole liturgy deeply moving and must admit that I didn't see any diminution of "the priestly thing". Each order (priests, deacons, laity, religious) was seated together; each rose in turn to renew vows appropriate to their work and station. The bishop's homily -- as in the Easter vigil, a strong, orthodox and pastoral address -- was all about "unity", the unity of all of the people of God, each in their particular role. At the consecration of the chrism, he prayed that the oil might be "a sign of life and salvation for those who are to be born again in the waters of baptism." He asked God to grant them [all of them, not just the priests], "royal, priestly and prophetic honour."
I fully understand that priests have a special calling and charism (as do deacons, religious, laity of various roles). But how does asking the laity and deacons to offer their own vows, at a separate and appropriate moment in the liturgy, diminish the collegiality or specialness of the presbyterate?
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Quam vos veritatem interpretationis, hanc eruditi κακοζηλίαν nuncupant … si ad verbum interpretor, absurde resonant. (St Jerome, Ep. 57 to Pammachius)
Posts: 1332 | From: London | Registered: Sep 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
My point is more that it diminishes the renewal of baptismal promises at the Easter Vigil than that it diminishes the presbyterate. Renewal of baptismal promises is not an incidental to the Easter Liturgy - it goes to the heart of it. Baptism is the "ordination" of the laity for ministry - so why do they need to renew their ministry twice?
Anyway, this one is currently causing all the traddy Catholics to pee in their knickers with delight out on trad-central blogosphere. It's a hoot!
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Anyway, this one is currently causing all the traddy Catholics to pee in their knickers with delight out on trad-central blogosphere. It's a hoot!
First, eew!
Second, that video is just, as the French say, très cool!
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
Just wondering what folks thought of these clips from the Easter Vigil at St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco?
I'll admit that there are bits I like, but there is something about the way it pillages a variety of traditions that reminds me of a food court in a mall and, frankly, gives me the creeps.
I know what you mean. I liked it too but there were definitely bits of Byzantine Paschal Matins in there, with a spot of Wesleyan hymnody to drums and then the O Mary, don't you weep, don't you mounr thing. Hmm.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
this one is currently causing all the traddy Catholics to pee in their knickers with delight out on trad-central blogosphere. It's a hoot!
Oh, thank you!
I was quite honestly clapping at the end of that.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
I once met an american who had been to Lourdes and when I asked him what he thought of it,he said he had been overawed by St Pix's church. It took me some time to work out that he was talking about the basilica of St Pie X. (St Pius the Tenth)
It's vast, but apart from that, I don't see what's inspiring about it. It's just big, and in the style of an underground car park. I served there once for the Bishop of Salford. (This was in my Anglican days. They couldn't find a Catholic server on the pilgrimage who knew what to do with a thurible, and one of my tutors from college suggested they ask me).
[ 21. April 2007, 18:36: Message edited by: Saint Bertelin ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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cor ad cor loquitur
Shipmate
# 11816
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Posted
Yes, I'd seen that video...it has made its way right round the net. Whoever made it was very clever, starting with the "before" altar discovered looking sad and lonely, flanked by drooping flowers and having a rumpled cover. It was especially amusing that, at a certain point in the proceedings, people started to bob before the tabernacle, even though it was almost certainly empty. Somehow between the flowers and the nth candle, the space in the centre of the altar had become holy for them.
That tabernacle sure wasn't very secure. Someone could have carried it away as easily as they had popped it onto the altar.
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Quam vos veritatem interpretationis, hanc eruditi κακοζηλίαν nuncupant … si ad verbum interpretor, absurde resonant. (St Jerome, Ep. 57 to Pammachius)
Posts: 1332 | From: London | Registered: Sep 2006
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
It is a hilarious video, but I fail to see why you couldn't simply do the Tridentine mass with the dated modern-looking altar, even if there is no tabernacle on it. As much as I dislike the modern practice of placing the tabernacle in a room down the hall next door to the Coke machine, that's preferable, in my view, over placing It in a flimsy makeshift altar tabernacle that could collapse due to an oopsie! by a clumsy celebrant or server.
It is a lovely sham of an altar though.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Forgive me but aren't there too many candles.
Surely 10 would be the norm, 6 big and 4 smaller?
And yes, I've been to Tridentine Mass celebrated on a normal concrete altar, facing east. The only thing different was a wooden cross was placed in the middle of the altar - nothing different. No need for a frame or a tabernacle, it was fine!
I think the FSSP just wanted to make it a little more "authentic" so it would look like a "proper olde latin marse" ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Well done to them for making it look like the past 40 years never happened ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Shame on all those lay servers who in their enthusiasm rushed onto the scene without donning cassocks.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
I won't even comment
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
The claim to be 'Roman' seems a little odd.
But ecclesiological niggles aside, what's with the lack of chasuble?
[ 22. April 2007, 18:46: Message edited by: Divine Outlaw Dwarf ]
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insert amusing sig. here
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
The claim to be 'Roman' seems a little odd.
But ecclesiological niggles aside, what's with the lack of chasuble?
And why tie-dye scarves instead of stoles...
Max (damn.... 7 minutes!)
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Anyway, this one is currently causing all the traddy Catholics to pee in their knickers with delight out on trad-central blogosphere. It's a hoot!
And with the sound turned off and someone humming the Benny Hill theme tune in the background it's fab!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
And why tie-dye scarves instead of stoles...
[shocked!] I would have guessed you to be in favor of that, Max!
Seriously, why don't these women just swim the Thames or the North Sea? They'd still have an episcopal ordination in the succession, and they would have considerable latitude to use the Roman Catholic liturgy, if that is their desire.
The number of gray heads did surprise me.
[ 22. April 2007, 19:22: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
Not videos, but I highly commend these audio files of complete services from St Thomas', Huron Street, Toronto. Start with the April 15 file: Solemn Evensong, Easter Carols, Procession, and Eucharistic Devotions. Just marvelous. At 14:30 in this file are two examples of how wonderfully a cantor and congregation can chant psalms, using Healey Willan's Canadian Psalter: Plainsong Edition, based on Briggs and Frere's Manual of Plainsong. Note how the accompaniment can keep the chant alive and on pitch and can control the midverse pause. Superb. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
they would have considerable latitude to use the Roman Catholic liturgy, if that is their desire.
Judging from the video, they don't have any desire to use the RC liturgy whatsoever.
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
they would have considerable latitude to use the Roman Catholic liturgy, if that is their desire.
Judging from the video, they don't have any desire to use the RC liturgy whatsoever.
Agreed.
If anybody is interested in hearing portions of the Evangelical Lutheran Worship liturgy, the St. Olaf College Boe Memorial Chapel webpage has some liturgies archived. It is marked as "Audio," but most of the recent ones are audio and video. Just click on an underlined date in the calendar. April 15th featured ELW Setting 1 with choir, organ, and brass.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
I won't even comment
Max
I will. Why is she speaking to God as though he were a five-year old?
There are more goodies here. (I was bored one day, ok?)
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
And why tie-dye scarves instead of stoles...
[shocked!] I would have guessed you to be in favor of that, Max!
Seriously, why don't these women just swim the Thames or the North Sea? They'd still have an episcopal ordination in the succession, and they would have considerable latitude to use the Roman Catholic liturgy, if that is their desire.
The number of gray heads did surprise me.
I've never come across this group before so I'm only guessing, but it could be for the same ties of affection, or whatever, other church members feel, when they decide to stick with where or what they are despite the fact the authorities have made undesirable changes. I suppose if the point they're hoping to make is there should be women in the RC priesthood, leaving the RC church wouldn't be a logical move.
But I'm interested to know whether this kind of thing instantly excommunicates people from RC membership or automatically acts as a discontinuation from the Church proper, in the same way that some churches continue to have Anglican or CofE in their name but are not working under the official authorities?
And, Max, I thought you would've liked the tie-dye thing, too ?
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
And why tie-dye scarves instead of stoles...
[shocked!] I would have guessed you to be in favor of that, Max!
Seriously, why don't these women just swim the Thames or the North Sea? They'd still have an episcopal ordination in the succession, and they would have considerable latitude to use the Roman Catholic liturgy, if that is their desire.
The number of gray heads did surprise me.
I've never come across this group before...
That surpised me because of the press they receive, but then I suppose that's partly because I was at college when one of their more famous riverboat ordinations took place and they were made to know that they would be considered excommunicate if they didn't desist and confess. It was particularly pertinent to us because we were doing the "ordination of women" module of our Christian Theology A-level, and this was a Catholic college, to boot! Needless to say, we got to know about this group. People have sort of grown accustomed to them now, so they don't get as much coverage as they used to. To be honest, looking at their liturgies, they really don't seem to much care about having any sort of credibility. Have you looked at the ordination video?
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Bertelin:
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
this one is currently causing all the traddy Catholics to pee in their knickers with delight out on trad-central blogosphere. It's a hoot!
Oh, thank you!
I was quite honestly clapping at the end of that.
Oh yes! That is beautiful! What is the situation with candle lighting when you have large nos. like that? Did Jesus get left alone on the Gospel side or wot?
(I thought I saw 6+6 and same repeated in front, Max. Tis meant to be multiples of 3)
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
quote:
But I'm interested to know whether this kind of thing instantly excommunicates people from RC membership or automatically acts as a discontinuation from the Church proper, in the same way that some churches continue to have Anglican or CofE in their name but are not working under the official authorities?
I would have thought irregular ordination (whatever the sex of the ordinand) carried automatic excommunication. Whether it does or not, according to their website these people have been excommunicated.
[ 23. April 2007, 10:12: Message edited by: Divine Outlaw Dwarf ]
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insert amusing sig. here
Posts: 8705 | Registered: Jan 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Bertelin:
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
I won't even comment
Max
I will. Why is she speaking to God as though he were a five-year old?
There are more goodies here. (I was bored one day, ok?) [/QB]
I thought she was orright, only watched the first 30 secs though. Quite comparable to modern Anglican liturgy. Not my taste, but there you go. I've seen other priests speak like that - they want to make the liturgy meaningful and more than just words. It rarely works - but their heart is in the right place!
I must remember though... prophetic obedience. No, my Lord Bishop. I was not being disobedient to Church discipline. I was exercising *prophetic obedience*.
The new obedience is disobedience.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Thanks for the information, St B. It's likely they've flashed onto the radar now and again. But unless I have a reason for remembering something, I'm afraid it goes pretty quickly. Yes, I checked out the ordination video.
I guess because I'm of the brigade that waited for our Church to authorize women's ordination - controversial as that is to some of its own members - I'm always a bit wary of groups that jump the gun. But then I wonder if I'm being disloyal to the principle that eventually changed so much, and it's a kind of betrayal of these women. But then - again! - like you, because I believe in the authority of my Church, when it comes to the ordering of official ministry, I don't understand why people loyal to it would wish to work outside it!
Anyway, that would be a tangent, so I'll stop there, before I get my knuckles rapped!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
PS. Missed edit. Does anyone know if these women found some tame male bishops in the apostolic succession to ordain the first female bishop?
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Thanks for that, Anselmina. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy B:
PS. Missed edit. Does anyone know if these women found some tame male bishops in the apostolic succession to ordain the first female bishop?
Yes. He was a Catholic priest who had gone to some vagantes to be consecrated bishop. I seem to recall that there was a time when they used to speak of a bishop whom they couldn't name because he was still a canonical bishop of the Catholic church, but I don't have any immediate sources to hand.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Anyway, this one is currently causing all the traddy Catholics to pee in their knickers with delight out on trad-central blogosphere. It's a hoot!
And with the sound turned off and someone humming the Benny Hill theme tune in the background it's fab!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fifi:
quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
Just wondering what folks thought of these clips from the Easter Vigil at St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco?
Antidote.
Also, from the same French Catholic TV network, Lauds from the Monastic Fraternity of Jerusalem. They are quite an interesting group, one that I would like to meet someday.
Lauds
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
As well as singing in the Parisian church of St Gervais the Community have homes in other parts of France and beyond the boundaries of France.
They live as a community also in the abbey of Mont St Michel between Normany and Brittany. The abbey is one of the major tourist attractions in France ,but you can get in free for the Mass ,which is sung round about midday and for the other offices as well.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
As well as singing in the Parisian church of St Gervais the Community have homes in other parts of France and beyond the boundaries of France.
They live as a community also in the abbey of Mont St Michel between Normany and Brittany. The abbey is one of the major tourist attractions in France ,but you can get in free for the Mass ,which is sung round about midday and for the other offices as well.
Forthview, what a beautiful version of Lauds from this community!! I heard a bit of Russian obikhod chant melody too in some of the chanting of the Psalms.
Thanks also for the info on this community!!! ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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