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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Mafia 2010: Preservation
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Joyeux
Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
P.S. You're damn right I've never been polite to you Melindra, and probably never will either. You quite hurt my feelings by sneering at my hairstyle ten years ago and I have absolutely nothing to gain by being nice to you now.
A-HA! So Rachel admits that she was the poison-pen gossip columnist that told the photographers where to find me when I went to the clinic... err... away on a trip! I knew that she had retired somewhere to try to live a quiet life. Figures I would end up in the same village. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
But what does she have to gain by NOT telling her contacts in the tabloid world that I'm here... that continues to seem suspicious to me.
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Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Well that's charming. I try to save Rachel from the noose and she thanks me by accusing me of murder. I should let her get strung up out of spite. Unfortunately she's innocent.
Even now, it's not certain that a doctor is still alive. We may be dealing with an exceptionally devious murderer who shot to miss.
Rachel is right that I'm a desparate woman. But not for the reasons that she thinks. I've tried reasoning but no one listens and the loquacious bitch always finds a way of talking herself out of it. So what's left to do except burn the house down?
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Firstly, please accept my apologies for being thirteen hours late in calling the vote. You have the following options:- lynch Alison Eliab (nominated by Vivian Rudge);
- lynch Old Miss Rachel (nominated by Bo Langton);
- lynch Vivian Rudge (nominated by Old Miss Rachel);
- no lynching.
As there are six villagers remaining, it will take three votes to secure a lynching.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
Is it possible that we don't have a doctor living? I doubt we are allowed a clarification of the rules on that point, but if are allowed I'd love a clarification on whether the mafia could in theory not only not kill someone but choose who to pretend they'd tried to kill.
Knowing the answer to that might change my mind.
And yes, Melindra, that was me. And a damn good job it was too I thought. Did it's just very nicely. And then what do you do but follow me here. That deserves a whole new level of insult or attack, but unfortunately it seems we are all to be killed shortly, so I fear I will not have the time presently to attack your character further.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I don't want to say too much in answer to your question, Gwai, but I will confirm that the BCS can do pretty much what they want. The only thing that I can think of that they can't do* is kill more than one person each 'night'.
* There might be things that I haven't thought of, of course. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
So what happens if 3 villagers vote to lynch one person, and the other three all vote to lynch a different person? Do they both get lynched?? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I clicked on this thread and I thought I was clicking on the "Daily Office (yet again)" thread. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Joyeux
Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
Hoping that the other villagers don't vote blindly, Melindra finally votes:
Miss Rachel
Having done her civic duty as far as she could see it (which isn't very far at the moment), she heads toward the pub, intending to find company as soon as anyone else wanders that way.
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Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Lillian whacks Old Miss Rachel with an invisible hand.
I'm already dead, missy! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Bo looked at the choices, and it was very tantalizing to realize there was the possibility of taking out TWO of the three nominees. If we did that, then if there are two BCS left, we are sure to get one of them. If there is only one BCS left and we miss, we should still be able to win.
So, who to vote for? The grouch, the bitch or the madwoman? At least the madwoman is already locked up, I suppose.
Vivian is obviously going to vote for Alison, so I will too.
Alison Eliab
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Bo is right. The citizens are now in a position where it is impossible for them to lose, if they are smart.
To explain: three suspects are left alive. Lynching two of them means that the honest citizens of Shipbury are certain to win the game. Either one of them will be found to be a murderer (the citizens win) or they will both be innocent (the one surviving suspect is exposed as a murderer and the citizens still win).
The callous thing to do would be to split the votes 50/50 between two people. On the other hand, in my book, Miss Rachel is innocent so it's a shame to lynch her if we don't have to.
On that basis Bo is also right that I vote for Alison Eliab.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
well, if Miss Rachel is tru to her word of follwing the trend for either Lillian or Alison, then she'll vote for Alison and secure a lynching.
the only other vote active is for Miss Rachel. Do i want another lynching enough to vote for her too, hoping that Alison will do the same?
No - I vote for No lynching
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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -
Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
You are making a tragic mistake in getting rid of me, but for what it's worth:
Rachel.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
By virtue of the three votes given, Alison Eliab will be lynched by the villagers. She was a member of the BCS.
Eliab, would you like to post a death scene? If so, now is the time.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Bo set about advertising free vodka lunches for the day at The Angel and Greyhound. She had become VERY suspicious of the reporter when Alison had covered the story of the broken window at the pub, and not a word was published by her about the spectacular fire at The Country House Hotel.
She rang the supplier, and ordered in another dozen cases of Russia's finest. Then she checked there were sufficient hangover remedies on the kitchen shelves. Today she was going to toast the fall of a formidable opponent.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
Alison Eliab fights to the end. For a moment it appears that she might even get away. One of the mob staggers out of the fray with her cheek gashed by the knife which the journalist tears from the sleeve of her blouse, another yelps and falls back after a stilletto heal jabs down her calf - but Alison is slightly built and outnumbered, and after a brief and savage struggle, her arms are pinned, the noose forced over her head, and her legs kicked away.
Alison's scream of terror is cut off as the rope bites into her neck. Her vision blurs and her feet cast about for purchase on the ground that seems to have dropped away, and then the pain hits like a wave, and drives everything but fear from her mind.
And then it seems that she is drifting away from the panic and agony. As the air is cut off, and the brain begins to close down sensation, Alison is dimly aware of fingernails breaking as they try vainly to prise the rope from her throat, but cannot be sure whether they are her own hands or another's. Gradually, the feeling becomes more and more distant, and she is not so much hanging as floating, and those around her are no longer the screaming mob, but silent, waiting spectators. Julia, Hugh, Dan, Andrew, Kate, Leo, Dalbhac, Jim, and others. Many others.
She looks up at them. They are taller, much taller, than she remembers. She barely reaches the waist of the shortest of them. She holds up her hands and sees not the slender and elegantly manicured nails she expected, but short, rather chubby fingers. She steps forward awkwardly, on unexpectedly short legs, and nearly falls. All the proportions of what she must now think of as her body are wrong.
Then she sees the shining presence in front of her. And it sees her. Alison yearns to cling to someone, anyone, other than that, to bury her face against their side and be held safe, but wherever she turns, the watchers are still around her, and the light is in front. For the first time there is nothing to hide behind.
The light touches her hair and brushes her cheek with a tenderness that she had never thought possible.
"Alison..."
"What..." - her voice is thin, and high, a girl's voice - "please, what's happening to me?"
"Don't be afraid. That..." - and here Alison knows she must look down at a dangling and broken form below her - "...that was only the last of your disguises."
Alison turns her large, puzzled eyes up at the Presence. The woman's mind knew the word well enough, but the little girl's soul does not.
"The last dressing up. Now you must choose who you will really be."
[ 14. April 2010, 14:00: Message edited by: Eliab ]
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
And with that, it was done.
The BCS were exposed, humiliated, and eventually dealt with. The slow wheels of progress could start to turn: tourists could be welcomed, the local economy would start to grow and new developments would spring up all over the parish. In short, a capitalist utopia had been born.
Well done to the villagers of Shipbury!
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Some said Dalbhac's ghost could be seen in the park, wandering endlessly after a floating paintbrush just out of reach. Now and again this spectre came close enough to civilisation at the edge of the park to be bathed in the neon light from the new Tesco. Some said Dalbhac's ghost gave out a scream when this happened, but some insisted the long screech was actually a series of words: 'Nooooooooo; it's the tenth circle of hell! Agggghhhhhhhhhh.'
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Nice game, everyone! That was fun!
Thank you, Imaginary Friend for being such a masterful facilitator! ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Bo looked at the accountant in disbelief. It seemed Hugh had been a very canny manager indeed, and now that even more people were flocking to the pub (thanks to rumours it was haunted by a most convivial ghost) she was being urged to think about investments; investments which might benefit Shipbury and make it into the thriving country town it had always had the potential to be.
She looked at the pile of Dalbahc’s canvases stacked against the wall in Hugh’s office, and wondered if maybe Shipbury was ready for it’s own galleria & brasserie - the kind of place where performance artists and local writers could congregate. She knew of a vacant tea-room that was in an ideal location, and perhaps Miss Rudge might care to run a slightly smaller concern during her convalescence? She certainly had the talent for it.
Vo & Joey were busy expanding their cheese business, and had happily taken over her old farm, as well as the running of the co-op. They were keenly looking for more local staff. Vo had rung her this morning to say there was more good news – Bo was going to be a grandmother. Already they were discussing names – Daniel James and Andie Kate had been Bo’s suggestion, though Vo had rather liked the name Leo.
In other news, Ms Lillian’s old house was being bulldozed to make way for a Tesco's store. Bo did not feel at all threatened by this. Everyone needed convenience food occasionally; but the pub now had such a good reputation for its counter meals and ambience that she knew all would be well, as long as she continued to bake good Cotswold country fare.
“Well,” she said to Knut, as he sat contentedly by the fire, “You may not be much of a greyhound, and I am definitely no angel, but it seems The Angel and Greyhound will go on being the hub of Shipbury for a long time to come. I think Hugh would be pleased by that.”
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Back at the hospital, Vivian is feeling much better. The news that Alison Eliab has been apprehended seems to have brought her to a kind of serenity, and the doctors expect her to make a full recovery.
Unfortunately she seems to have burned her hotel down. And she suspects that the insurers might take a dim view of her having set fire to the place herself. She wonders if she can get the Brotherhood's assets seized to pay for the repairs...
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Great game everyone, I had an awesome time (even when I was setting fire to my own hotel - my only disappointment is that it didn't make the quotes file ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ) And well done to Eliab for being so bloody hard to catch. I am suitably impressed by your evil genius
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
Thank you all for a most enjoyable game.
A BCS strategic 'post-mortem':
Night 1: At this stage it was a pure guess which villagers were specials. We went for Andrew B because if I.F. had distributed the roles other than randomly, I thought it would probably appeal to his sense of humour to make the public-persona surgeon the doctor. And because El Greco is astute enough that killing him off was never going to be a bad move.
Day 1: The whole kidnap thing was I.F.’s idea, not ours, to give the first victim a better chance of involvement. Alas none of the BCS were possessed of such a thing as a better nature, so we did him in anyway (and bloody good job too – given the odds we were facing).
Our general strategy in the day phase was not to confer or collude, nor to avoid agreement, but for each of us to act as much as possible as if we were innocent.
Night 2: We had identified Kate and Dan as the most likely specials, and went for Kate on the basis that we thought Dan was probably going to be easier to lynch. Strike!
Night 3: Dan didn’t get lynched so we tried for him, but were blocked.
Day 3: Hugh declared himself as a second policeman (albeit obliquely) and we knew we were in trouble, since we hadn’t found the doctor yet. With Matilda gone, that meant two killers left and three known innocents, a ratio that could not be improved upon while Hugh lived, and would ultimately mean a losing game. But since any sensible doctor would now guard him, we couldn’t just knock him off.
Night 4: Lillian wanted to hit Dan again. I thought that he was unlikely to be a doctor if he had been protected (I was assuming that doctors couldn’t save themselves, as in previous games). My guess was Rachel. Fortunately this phase coincided with a particular busy spot of real life for me, so jedijudy made the call. I managed to talk her round, but too late, and the order to kill Dan proved effective. I.F. confirmed to us that doctors could self-protect.
Night 5: We had to guess whether there was a second doctor – if not, anything but a hit on Hugh was a bad move; but if so, Hugh would be guarded and we could not afford to waste a kill. On the maths, we had to kill Hugh on this or the following night to stand any chance at all, but even if there was a second doctor, to kill him in time meant one guess that had to be right – a 1 in 6 chance. Reasoning that if there was a second doctor we were probably screwed, we acted on the basis that there wasn’t, and tried for him. We called it wrong.
Day 5: Birnan Wood having come to Dunsinane, an unorthodox strategy was called for. Basically, we needed Hugh dead that night or we’d lose. So I nominated him for lynching. I didn’t expect to win the vote, but I did expect to be nominated back. The plan was then to role-claim the doctor, and draw the real doctor from hiding, while also planting the subliminal message that he might want to be guarding himself. I’d be lynched, but the policeman might then be unguarded. Not, I accept, the most solid of plans, but I don’t think there were any better options. Lillian tried to give a lead to the voting, but, perhaps predictably, no one was up for lynching the policeman (although if he had lived to the next day, I actually think it would have been a solid strategy).
The plan worked – better than expected. I’d all but dismissed the possibility of Jim being the doctor when he declared and sacrificed himself (and I was setting up a rationale for a ‘no lynching’ vote at the end, because we certainly couldn’t afford to lose an ‘unknown’ unless he was the doctor).
Night 6: A no-brainer. The detective died.
Day 6: Unfortunately, both remaining BCS members were hopelessly compromised. Once it was clear that Lillian was going down, I stuck the knife in.
Night 7: I chose not to murder, to support the ‘doctor’ thesis. This meant inviting a mathematic loss (as Bo and Vivian subsequently pointed out, with equal numbers of known innocents and suspects, a double lynching means the village automatically wins – and, indeed, the town can force a double lynching at the 2 v. 2 point (if there’s one killer) because the two suspects cannot plausibly do anything but vote for each other, and one innocent voting for each of them will kill both. I hoped you wouldn’t notice.
(Incidentally – if the finish had gone down to one against one, by my reading of the rules, both survivors would be lynched. It was completely unclear to me who would win if that happened – although BCS win-condition is defined as “kill off the townspeople” rather than “survive”.)
Day 7: At his point, the survivors were just too smart. Well played.
Summary: Hugh picked the right time to declare his role. We were playing a desperate game from that point on to take him out (which meant taking out the doctors) and could only do it at the price of any plausible claim to innocence. I’m pretty pleased with our victim selection – 3 ‘specials’ to 1 ‘ordinary’ is a ratio that it would be hard to improve upon – but it meant that we could never have the luxury of killing the suspicious or analytical, or using murders to cast suspicion on other people, we were just too busy hunting cops and doctors.
Thanks to I.F. for running the game and well played the town.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
Night 3: Dan didn’t get lynched so we tried for him, but were blocked.
Day 3: Hugh declared himself as a second policeman (albeit obliquely) and we knew we were in trouble, since we hadn’t found the doctor yet.
I didn't realise I was attracting attention before then; I thought I'd just made up a fun character to roleplay.
As it happened, that was the night I tried to protect Hugh. I didn't realise immediately that there was probably another doctor, so I was pretty convinced that Hugh was telling the truth.
NB: if there's more than one doctor then I recommend either that the doctors cannot protect themselves or else that they get told if they were the one who prevented the death. The ability to discover who might be an innocent target is the only real motivation for protecting someone other than themselves.
[ 14. April 2010, 22:26: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Though he would have much rather survived the reign of the Brotherhood, Hugh was glad at his chance to be a good Pub Ghost here in his sleepy little Cotswald town. Suddenly, the Angel and Greyhound had gone from being an embattled-but-resolutely-traditional country pub to being a charming-and-untouched-by-the-ravages-of-the-modern-age country pub. The locals Hugh had served for years still came and went, the tourists in search of the "real England" got a taste of things as they should be, and Hugh was thankful that Bo always left out a glass of Caol Isla at the end of the night. There were certain other perks to being a pub ghost, Hugh soon found; the smell of Bo's cooking was even better for a spirit, he found, to say nothing of being able to work whatever hours he wished. Sure, there were a few responsibilities; keep the handpumps from breaking, prevent any number of disasters from breaking out (Hugh was glad he caught that gas leak before Bo blew the place up), pet Knut occasionally, serve his former customers who still dropped by now and again . . .
It was a good afterlife.
Sooner or later, all of Hugh's fellow villagers began to join him in the old pub. Life went on in Shipbury; babies were born, then grew up and started patronizing the Angel; the bittersweet day even came when a glass of vodka was first set next to Hugh's nightly malt. Though every pub has its drafts, the regulars all knew that the occasional mild chill they felt had a more-than-earthly source. Stories were told by the successive owners of the pub to visitors about the Brotherhood's reign of terror, of the investigations conducted by its owner, even on the night of his assassination (a member of the BCS had apparently cast doubt on his definitive declaration about Miss Rachel) and how, at long last, an old friend, an old dog, and an old pub all came together happily.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I think it was probably Hugh who won the game for us. Well done
You may have noticed that I knew that it was Eliab ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I knew it had to be Ms Eliab from the minute Jim was revealed to be the doctor. A third doctor just stretched my credulity too far. Combined with an argument that I'd never rightly understood* about why we should lynch our own policeman, it was blatant to me. Apparently I was wrong about the kidnapping trick, although it did look sufficiently Machiavellian to me that I couldn't think it would be anyone else...
Add to this the small things that rang up my BS-ometer. Like, in particular, claiming not to have noticed that Hugh was the policeman. As. If. There is no way that anyone equipped with an Eliab-grade scumdar could possibly have failed to notice. So he had to be lying. And somehow, there's something about Eliab's tone when he's talking BS that doesn't sit right with me. Call it feminine intitution or something. Even so, the missed hit on Bo almost threw me. Until I checked the votes, worked out that Rachel had to be innocent, and I was innocent, ergo I had to be right.
The problem was trying to prove it. The slippery so-and-so can talk his way out of anything. (And Eliab, rest assured that if I'm ever in trouble with the law, I shall be giving you a call ) At which point I came up with the idea of going stark-raving bonkers and burning the house down. Eliab can always come up with an answer to a reasoned argument. So I decided to see if I could wrong-foot him by dispensing with reason for a little while... How does the master of logical rhetoric answer a load of irrational gibberish?
*I admit that I didn't get to think through that particular vote in as much detail as I would have liked. Is it bad to confess that checking this game is the only time I've ever connected to the interweb from Taizé? Silence, spirituality, meditation… mafia game ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
As this is the first time I've run a game like this, perhaps I could trouble you for a bit of feedback about one or two things.
Ratio of roles: We started with three mafia, two doctors and two policemen. Was that an appropriate division, or did it unfairly advantage the town?
The first night: I always feel guilty for the person assassinated the first night because they don't really get much of a game. I tried to combat this with the kidnapping plot, but I guess I only did a half job on it because I allowed the BCS to decide whether they would release Dr Brown or not once the vote had been taken. In hindsight, they were only going to do one thing! So, my question is, are there any other ways that people know of to extend the life of the person who is killed first, or is it just a regrettable part of the game?
Doctors who protect themselves: Is this a good thing, or a bad thing? (Actually, as a side note, in night 3 both doctors protected Hugh.)
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Joyeux
Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
Melindra visited Ms Rudge in hospital, bearing flowers and an intriguing offer from her US-based publishers.
(from the letter)
...While we support your desire to live a less publicity-minded life, if there's a press-release soon, then we can direct the tabloids towards less sensational headlines. With that in mind, can we publish that you've settled in a quaint village, and are taking a hiatus from parties and writing, and will instead do something else, like running a bed & breakfast? We will, naturally, be available as financial backers in such an endeavor...
"So, Vivian, what do you think? Would you like a financial partner in getting your hotel back up and running? With the understanding that I'll probably use the hotel as a setting for future books, and that I'll have to be gone sometimes for press tours?"
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Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I thought the kidnapping plot was a good idea. The uncertainty kicked the debating off well, and helped the players to form a few opinions about each other. The person taken out first is always going to feel a bit cheated, but unless you can think of a role for 'the communion of saints' in the afterlife, I think its always going to be that way.
As a villager, I did not think we had it too easy. In fact it looked like the mafia were wiping the floor with us until Eliab declared as a 'doctor'. (Yes, that got my attention too! Especially as it happened immediately after I voted to lynch Alison the first time). By the time Hugh got taken out we had no doctors, no police, and at least two known mafia left. It looked grim, even though Eliab says the mafia simply could not get to the analysts to take them out.
Having played both sides (felon & citizen) a couple of times now, I'd say the ratio 3:4 was right for 15 players. It needs to be that way because the mafia have an advantage by being able to communicate freely with each other behind the scenes. It also simplified things having just doctors and detectives rather than a few other more nebulous special roles, which has sometimes happened in the past. The clear job description of protection and investigation was good - although I never did find out what the difference was , if any, between Hugh & Kate's roles, as Kate got bumped off so early. Was Hugh the only one allowed to investigate?
The other thing about this game which was different, was the number of players who openly declared (or claimed to declare) their roles quite early on. That certainly surprised me. So if I was to put my finger on any one thing which tipped the balance of the game, it was not the ratio of roles, but the declaration of roles.
Thanks for running such a tight game, I.F. Just about the best I've participated in on S.o.F IMHO.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
I really enjoyed playing - as always - though the funniest thing was that despite being mafia, I kept on trying to work out whodunnit! No wonder I was sussed so early on in the game!
Mind you, I deserved my lynching? Did anyone notice my stupid mistake? Good job I noticed before the editing window was up - I managed to post my secret PM to IF actually on the thread itself. No prizes for guessing I was mafia if you saw me trying to murder Hugh in full view!
I was taken aback by the kidnapping bit too, but quite liked the twist it gave to the beginning of the game.... and still feel somewhat guilty for killing our victim anyway! I agree that it's rotten to be the first victim in the game but can't see any way around it.
I think the ratios were just right. Not sure if the doctor ought to be able to protect themselves, though. I'd think it preferable if they couldn't, especially if there's more than one.
Anyway, it's the last time I make any of you lot a free cup of tea!
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Ratio of roles: We started with three mafia, two doctors and two policemen. Was that an appropriate division, or did it unfairly advantage the town?
It depends whether the idea is to provide both sides with an equally enjoyable game, or an equal chance of winning. Speaking personally, I think game balance is over-rated and I like being presented with a ‘now get out of that’ challenge where the odds are skewed. Two doctors and two policeman were a formidable challenge, and made the game a lot of fun.
In terms of winning chances – well, I wouldn’t have bet on the BCS, whoever was playing them. Assuming competent play from the town, the BCS could only kill a declared policeman once the doctors were dead, and could only kill the doctors at all once a policeman had declared himself (because until then the doctor is surely going to be guarding himself). Even with perfect play, the BCS can’t hope to take out the specials earlier than night 4. We managed it on night 6 (which for this game was the absolute latest possible for the BCS to have a mathematical chance of victory), and we had to blow our cover to do that. Anyone think that they could have done it quicker?
I think the set-up assumption was that the strength of the policeman is in locating the guilty. With two of them, and two doctors, the real threat is that they can establish innocence. Once the number of known innocents equals or exceeds the number of unknowns, the game’s over. Potentially, with two police that can happen on night 2. If the policemen between them can manage six different investigations (which they easily do with average life expectancy), and don’t allow any of those cleared to be lynched, it doesn’t matter if they never find a single criminal – they win simply by establishing the innocence of half the town.
quote:
are there any other ways that people know of to extend the life of the person who is killed first, or is it just a regrettable part of the game?
Part of the game.
The early exitee can at least console themselves with the reflection that their place on the hit-list is a compliment to their playing ability.
quote:
Doctors who protect themselves: Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?
Bad. Indeed, potentially game-breaking. Because role-claiming is a sacrifice play for the mafia, a self-protecting doctor is close to unkillable (unless guarding a declared detective).
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Personally, I don't think having two doctors skews play nearly as much as having two policemen might. Kate was offed very early in the game; we have no idea of knowing who she even chose to investigate, if she even got a chance to at all. If either one of us had decided to investigate the other, we would have instantly known who our cohort was and have been able to systematically work through the entire village in concert. Doctors, on the other hand, can never know for sure who their partner is or what he or she is doing (unless, I suppose, the police were to inform them); the distinct possibility that the both of them decide to save the same target keeps two doctors from having anywhere near the advantage two policemen might.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Oh, and just for the record AA, it would have been a shot glass of Opal Bianca next to Hugh's Caol Isla!
Anyone else for a virtual happy hour? Cheers
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Personally, I don't think having two doctors skews play nearly as much as having two policemen might.
It's the combination of the two roles that makes the difference. Two doctors allow a policeman who makes himself known to survive for a minimum of 2 additional nights. At the point you declared, for example, there were 12 players left. As far as the BCS knew, 8 of these (not you, not us) were possible doctors. To kill you we had to hit both of them first. Constructing a probability tree based on purely random targetting (and assuming that each night/day phase reduces the pool by 2) the chance of killing 2 doctors in 2 nights is about 4%. Three nights (or less) is about 15%. Four nights (or less) is a little under 50%. The real game's obviously a bit more complicated than that, but basically once the policeman declares, the odds are in favour of him getting three or four more investigations in before being assassinated (ie. they about double his life expectancy), and that ought to be enough to ensure victory.
What that means is that you declared your role at precisely the right time, and won as a result.
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
it looked like the mafia were wiping the floor with us until Eliab declared as a 'doctor'.
Not from this side of the table. At that point, the town had essentially won. We couldn't, without trickery, stop Hugh from making one more investigation, and that was all he needed to do.
That was the point of the whole nominate-the-policeman-and-then-role-claim scheme. And vie is right - the nomination as made was based on flawed reasoning. The basic principle (if a purported detective has cleared enough people to make victory certain if he is telling the truth, at the point that he is no longer needed, it is sensible to lynch him to confirm that he is, indeed, truthful) was sound, but the timing was wrong - it had to be, because there'd be no point suggesting it once it was too late. That meant that I had to fudge over details of how I as a doctor could ensure that the town win the end-game. I never expected the nomination itself to work (though there's no harm in giving the opposition room to make mistakes) - it only needed to be plausible enough that my role-claim would need the real doctor to declare himself in order to lynch me.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
FWIW, my €0:02:
I prefer for doctors not to be able to protect themselves. I think it makes for a more balanced game when no one is safe from assassination (apart from the mob themselves obviously).
I'm also interested that when Eliab missed on purpose, we were told that he had tried to hit Bo, but on the other occasions we weren't given any indication about who the mob were trying to kill. Was there any particular reason for that?
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm also interested that when Eliab missed on purpose, we were told that he had tried to hit Bo, but on the other occasions we weren't given any indication about who the mob were trying to kill. Was there any particular reason for that?
I specified to I.F. that it was a faked hit, rather than mere inactivity - that may be why.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
Once I was given role I decided the only way to graft it on to my career was something like the Saint John's. In my early posts I tried to set it up ready in case I needed to claim.
I then failed RP rather hard.
Tried to save others on basis that it was my only way of getting information. After (thinking I'd) saved Dan and suspecting his innocents accused him in the hope of getting the mafia to make a slip.
I was very suspicious of Hugh's claim, really until Eliab's declaration.
The Mafia may have felt that knowing there were duplicates, known of their attempt, and Eliab's dodgy reasoning, that it was obvious.
But from my POV a cunning fake personality with a fake non-attempt and a wise villager looked identical.
The fake declaration made me 85 percent certain, but Eliab was convincing and I did check my role several times. I guess it was even more convincing for the other villagers.
When I died I suspected Eliab & Vivian. But was rather glad to avoid the final dilemma.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I'm having a very busy day today, so I can't digest all the feedback, but I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to type out your thoughts. I'll come back to it tonight or tomorrow morning.
One quick thing:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm also interested that when Eliab missed on purpose, we were told that he had tried to hit Bo, but on the other occasions we weren't given any indication about who the mob were trying to kill. Was there any particular reason for that?
I specified to I.F. that it was a faked hit, rather than mere inactivity - that may be why.
That's right. I was trying to differentiate subtly between that and the other occasions, and it seemed that Gwai and la vie en rouge both picked up on it. I'll come back to this later.
Thanks again.
iF
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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