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» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Eccles: Eastern Catholic Church Liturgy (Page 4)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Eastern Catholic Church Liturgy
Pancho
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# 13533

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quote:
Originally posted by Eddy:
In the case of the Eastern Catholic Churches (those in Communion with the Holy Father), do they use the same rites as their equivalent Orthodox or Oriental church.

So in that fascinating bit Mousethief quotes about the Coptic Orthodox church is the Eastern Catholic church using the same three liturgies in that way?

Churches, of cause, are not just about liturgy. I guess, but have no real knowledge on this, that the Eastern Catholics and eastern Orthodox may differ on some ethical or moral teaching, as I guess the Orthodox Church and the RC Church are not always eye to eye on these things.

You already asked these questions on the first post of this thread and you were given answers a number of times, including posts by Manipled Mutineer here , Mousethief here and here , Teddybear here and here , Forthview here , and myself here and here . Other shipmates must have answered as well.

Have you read the link I gave above , originally given by Teddybear on this thread and recommended by Gee D?

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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Eddy
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# 3583

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Pancho, thank you for taking the time and effort to reply to my last posting, but I think you haven't quite grasped what I was wondering.

I know the Eastern Catholic churches use the same liturgies that has been made clear. However, Mousethief pointed out the variety in the Coptic Orthodox church - how they use three different forms, with differing frequency, and one form was learned until it was written down.

What I wondered is whether or not the Coptic Catholic churches used those same liturgies in the same way - that is in the balance and the same frequency as the Coptic Orthodox churches.
Maybe its not possible to know this from people here.

I suspect, but I don't know, that the Eastern catholic churches may have a different geographical distribution to there Orthodox equivalents and so contact and knowledge of each other may not always be great.

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Pancho
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I think your question about the Copts was essentially answered when it was explained that Eastern Catholics more or less worship the same way as their Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox counterparts do. So if the Coptic Orthodox use their liturgies a certain way the Coptic Catholics probably do as well. The only way to be absolutely sure is to visit a Coptic Catholic Church.

I believe you are mistaken in your last paragraph. Eastern Catholics and their counterparts often share the same territory.

p.s. again, if you would just read that link.....

[ 19. May 2010, 22:15: Message edited by: Pancho ]

--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Eddy
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Thank you Pancho, for that. I did suspect that it would be difficult to get the low down on whether the Coptic Catholics use the liturgies in the same way.

This Coptic Church is the Evangelical Coptic Church, and the mind boggles...just as their are Eastern Catholic versions of the Orthodox churches are their Protestant / Evangelical equivalents as well.

This is an Armenian Evangelical Church. And here too.

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Pancho
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddy:
Thank you Pancho, for that. I did suspect that it would be difficult to get the low down on whether the Coptic Catholics use the liturgies in the same way.[/URL]

Actually it's not difficult at all to get the low down. We've given it to you on this thread. What you're asking is similar to someone asking about the frequency certain eucharistic prayers get used at Latin Rite churches. It tends to to the more random obscure stuff. If you're sincerely interested you can directly contact an Eastern Catholic Church to satisfy your curiosity. That's not difficult either. I present to you:

The Unofficial Directory to Maronite and Byzantine Catholic Links Based in the UK

If I, half way around the world, was able to find this with a quick search then the reader wonders why you aren't able to do so. I'm positive London is home to at least a few Eastern Catholics.

By the way, did you finish reading that link I gave above?

--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Augustine the Aleut
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddy:
Thank you Pancho, for that. I did suspect that it would be difficult to get the low down on whether the Coptic Catholics use the liturgies in the same way.

This Coptic Church is the Evangelical Coptic Church, and the mind boggles...just as their are Eastern Catholic versions of the Orthodox churches are their Protestant / Evangelical equivalents as well.

This is an Armenian Evangelical Church. And here too.

By and large, the answer is a qualified no. In the countries of the former USSR, there are now a variety of denominations in addition to the small Russian Baptist church, which originated in Saint Petersburg in the latter part of Alexander III's reign. In the Arab world there is, of course, the Anglican dioceses of Jerusalem and Egypt as well as the mainly Lebanese Presbyterian church, founded by US Presbyterian missionaries from the ancient Christian churches.

I only know some Arab & Armenian evans, and they do not see themselves as that connected or parallel to their Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox counterparts, in the same way which the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox churches do.

There were for some years Ukrainian-speaking Byzantine-rite congregations of the United Church of Canada and the Presbyterian Church of Canada, a now-expired phenomenon about which little has been written.

With respect to an earlier observation on the Italo-Greek Byzantine church, there is no rationale for them to merge into the Latin RCs in Italy on the basis that they are in Italy, a western catholic country-- we need to remember that the Italo-Greeks preceded Italy's existence by a good millennium. The Patriarchate of the West always included them in their structure-- it is an interesting case of a particular church in the bosom of another particular church.

Rather than reading about the EC/EO reality, Eddy would be advised to attend their liturgies, perhaps a Ukrainian Catholic congregation for a few weeks, followed by attending a Ukrainian Orthodox services for a couple of Sundays, and then reflecting on the similarities and differences of the experience. I really think that Eddy might find this a useful experience.

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Gee D
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Of course, there are always the Georgian Baptists - referred to a couple of years ago on the board - who mix Baptist theology and episcopal strucure. There is a site which shows prelates dressed as if in the most ancient of Eastern vestments, more ceremonial than the Pope celebrating on Easter Sunday, and of amazing colours and textures. Look them up, Eddy, via Google.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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