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Source: (consider it) Thread: HEAVEN: Same place, new questions
Campbellite

Ut unum sint
# 1202

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Does your employer provide you with a pay stub? In the US, you receive a stub on your paycheck which shows your gross income, and a breakdown of the withholding for various taxes, insurance, etc.

I won't assume it is the same in the UK, but it might be.

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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?

Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gracious rebel

Rainbow warrior
# 3523

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Campbellite, the UK payslip would show how much tax and National Insurance (tax by another name!) had been paid, but not what proportion of the total was spent on health services.

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
I'm trying to work out how much my recent broken arm cost me/us in the UK versus how much it would have cost with the HMO we were using in the US.

You might be interested in this piece in Wednesday's Guardian. - albeit it's a broken leg, rather than arm.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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I saw the cover and thought I must check that out, but he says

quote:
I can't tell what my treatment has cost the NHS
Which is VERY unhelpful!

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Are we comparing like with like?

What the NHS costs you is the totality of your contributions while you are a taxpayer. What the journalist arrives at is the itemised cost of a particular incident, because that is how US health care is charged. I don't doubt that any particular treatment you get on the NHS is also resolvable into discrete items which are chargeable to the Trust delivering them. If you got a UK costing for them, you would just have established the costs of ambulances, nursing care, surgery etc as between the UK and the US.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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What I'm trying to compare is, from the day I broke my arm to the day I get signed off as healed, how much will having a broken arm cost ME, the patient, under the two different systems.

Everyone agrees that the US system costs the country more. But if you never claim on your US health insurance, it might not be such a bad deal (compared to taxes paying for the chronically ill, too).

However, I'm generally healthy but had a fairly common accident - I don't have a chronic illness - I want to find out how much these X months of health care will cost under both systems.

I still have the pricing lists for the US provider so can work that side out fairly easily.

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Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992

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It's a difficult question, chukovsky. Government departments aren't renowned for their openness about the costs of the services theu run. The NHS budget in 2007 was about £90billion, so I suppose you could do some sums based on that. However, you'd have to find some figures on how much of the Government's tax-take comes from individuals (as opposed to other sources) to figure out how much "you" pay.

One thing's for sure - "National Insurance" does not pay for the health service. It only just about covers welfare payments.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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If you mean how much it costs you personally at the point of treatment, then the UK system consts you nothing. The last two times I was treated in hospital no quesiton of payment ever arose. I didn't even pay prescription charges for stuff they'd have charged me for at the chemists.

If you mean total cost including tax and insurance and co-pay then the answer is the US costs about twice as much as in UK or Japan or Spain (which are the low-cost nationalised systems), about half as much again as Germany or Switzerland, slightly more than France or Sweden.

quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
But if you never claim on your US health insurance, it might not be such a bad deal (compared to taxes paying for the chronically ill, too).

No, that is almost the worst possible comparison from the US point of view! A taxpayer who never uses healthcare is paying the full whack. They pay more than a UK taxpayer on the same income would. But they are getting nothing in return.

Of course the actual worst comparison is the unisured taxpayer. They pay more for healthcare than we do and do not recieve it. The low-paid and the self-employed are subsidising the healthcare of the insured.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Government departments aren't renowned for their openness about the costs of the services theu run.

Yes they are! You can get pretty complete breakdowns of the entire government healthcare budgets of both the USA and the UK online. Its all there. Its the private providers who are secretive.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ToujoursDan

Ship's prole
# 10578

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I'm preparing for holidays in Argentina and Uruguay - specifically Buenos Aires and Montevideo.

Has anyone ever been? Any tips I should know?

I only know a few phrases in Spanish and am pretty crap about learning languages (though I am decent in French now). I am trying though. Can an English speaker get by on tourist Spanish?

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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
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Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Izzybee
Shipmate
# 10931

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Not asking for legal advice, just asking if I nedd legal advice. Hosts feel free to delete this if it's deemed to overstep the bounds.

Mr. Iz was hit by a car yesterday in Washington DC. He was crossing at a crosswalk with the "walk" sign and the car concerned made an illegal left turn and hit both him and his co-worker. He got taken by ambulance to the ER and no bones were broken alhough understandably he's in quite a bit of pain.

Do we need a lawyer? We'd really rather not have to deal with it, but everyone we meet keeps telling us to talk to someone - including the lady who does the medical billing for our doctor's office. She seems to think without a lawyer we'll have trouble getting his ER bills paid.

Anyone ever been in the same situation? I've got no idea what to do, quite frankly.

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Hate filled bitch musings...

Posts: 1336 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Do you have the driver's information? And did the police take a report? (If you say "no" to the police, call them ASAP and get it done.)

Also, I don't know what health insurance, if any, Mr. Iz has, but it would be worth calling them and talking to a manager. His own insurance will have a vested interest in er, shoving off as many medical bills onto the offending party as possible, and may offer you quite a bit of help and advice.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Izzybee
Shipmate
# 10931

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The driver's information is in the police report (which I guess answers both questions). My job tomorrow is to make the 110 mile round trip to go pick up the report, which apparently can only be picked up by a real live person. The guy was apparently charged with a laundry list of stuff.

I hadn't thought about calling our health insurance company, but it's something I'll definately try. Heck - I need all the advice I can get right now.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Then here's some more. See if they will release the report to your LOCAL police station, who can then hand it over to you in due and proper form. [Disappointed] Or set your insurance company onto them to obtain it--"Vee haff vays to make you talkkkkkkk." It worked for us!

Do you have any idea whether the idiot had insurance? If not, he'll get the book thrown at him, but you may be out of luck. [Waterworks] Unless your own driver's policy, some work-related policy, or one of those bizarre credit card thingies, has a clause covering this kind of accident. Never hurts to check.

Oh, and if in the end it all comes down to a personal civil lawsuit--which we'll hope not--be sure he's GOT something for you to take before wasting the $ on suing him. If he's financially "judgement proof," you might as well save your lawyer's fees and let the state take it out of his hide. I'm not completely sure how you'd find out his financial status, though--I've a friend who's a bill collector, but they apparently have privileged status or something...

[ 21. August 2009, 01:16: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Ach! forgot. If you DO decide to make the trip, call them first and make them swear in blood that it will be there, ready and waiting, for you upon arrival. AND that someone will be present to hand it to you. I discovered that my local station hands out reports when the fancy strikes them--so you have to find the sweet spot between Emergency 349 and coffee hour. [Razz]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
But if you never claim on your US health insurance, it might not be such a bad deal (compared to taxes paying for the chronically ill, too).

No, that is almost the worst possible comparison from the US point of view! A taxpayer who never uses healthcare is paying the full whack. They pay more than a UK taxpayer on the same income would. But they are getting nothing in return.

Well, no, because if you have a relatively low monthly premium (because you are young and healthy) on the type of insurance that whacks you when you claim (very low annual maximum and huge copay, for example) then your monthly payment might work out less than the proportion of taxes you would pay towards the NHS, particularly if you have a high income in the UK.

There are health plans that cost $200 or even less per month for young, healthy working people in the US but it's when you get sick that they screw you. If you're straight out of university but earning a fair bit, you might be paying more than, say, £120 per month in the taxes that pay for the NHS, depending of course on the figure I can't find out - the proportion of your taxes that go towards the NHS.

But then, of course, when you are sick, you end up paying loads in the US but not very much in the UK (it's not NOTHING, as I know from just having paid £21 for 3 different prescriptions, two of which were directly related to my broken arm).

As Adeodatus says, it's not the amount that the NHS costs, but rather the proportion of my income tax/NI that is going towards it, that I'd like to find out.

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Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped
Do you have any idea whether the idiot had insurance? If not, he'll get the book thrown at him, but you may be out of luck.

If he is found guilty, which I gather is a foregone conclusion, you could ask that he be required to pay restitution as part of his sentence.

Moo

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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Keren-Happuch

Ship's Eyeshadow
# 9818

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I have 2 jersey cotton nighties which have picked up an inexplicable painty/solventy smell from somewhere. Just after washing and hanging in the sun the smell fades but it gradually builds up again in the cupboard or in the course of being worn. I've tried washing them in bicarb which is supposed to remove smells, but it didn't make a lasting difference. Do any of those fabric freshener things actually remove smells or just mask them? And does anybody have any suggestions on how to get rid of the smell properly?? [Confused] [Help]

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EXCESS - The Art of Treason
Nea Fox

Posts: 2407 | From: A Fine City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hebdom
Shipmate
# 14685

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KH, you could try dousing the nighties in a weak solution of eucalyptus oil - say 1 teaspoon in a bucket of water. Leave for 3 or 4 hours, then rinse and hang out on the line. I have no idea whether this will work but eucalyptus oil works wonders in all sorts of situations. Here in Oz I use a pre-wash scrub which is eucalyptus based and it is brilliant.

Good luck with it. [Biased]

Posts: 163 | From: Terra australis | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged
Hebdom
Shipmate
# 14685

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On second thoughts.... (sorry for double posting)

One teaspoon may be a bit much, have just checked my bottle of eucalyptus oil and it says one capful (which would be about a teaspoon) to a washing machine full of water.

The smell of eucalyptus oil evaporates fairly quickly if you find it too strong.

Posts: 163 | From: Terra australis | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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IME, Borax is good for removing odors from clothing. Directions should be on the box.

(I don't know what it may be called in other countries; but it's a white powder, used as a laundry booster. In the US, the brand is "20 Mule Team Borax". I think it *might* be manufactured by Arm & Hammer.)

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--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
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Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Aelred of Riveaux
Shipmate
# 12833

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Does anyone know if there are any special regulations concerning sending tea from the UK to the USA? I want to send a small packet (about 100g) of either loose tea or teabags occasionally as a gift, and wondered if there needs to be customs clearance or permission to send foodstuffs etc.

Thanks for your help.

Posts: 161 | From: Cambridge UK | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Izzybee
Shipmate
# 10931

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My wonderful mum and several wonderful friends of mine occasionally throw some tea in the post to me and it's never been a problem. I think meat and seeds/fruit/veg is what they're looking for, customs wise.

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Hate filled bitch musings...

Posts: 1336 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
monkeylizard

Ship's scurvy
# 952

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quote:
Originally posted by Izzybee:
Mr. Iz was hit by a car yesterday in Washington DC. <snip>Do we need a lawyer?

<Scenario 1> Driver has automobile insurance:
His insurance provider will cover medical bills (and probably lost wages) up to the policy limits. You may even get a little something out of them for pain and suffering, especially if you start hinting you're considering a lawyer. If you're getting what you feel is fair, don't bother with a lawyer. If you feel you're getting yanked around by them, then lawyer up.

<Scenario 2> Driver has no automobile insurance:
This is when you'll need to discuss the situation with your own healthcare insurance company. If the driver has no auto insurance, he's probably poor, and not worth suing. If you're getting fair treatment from your own health insurance, don't bother with the lawyer. But if they're playing difficult, then lawyer up.

<Scenario 3> You want to use this opportunity to become independently wealthy (even after the lawyers get their cut), or there's a very real chance for long-term disability from the injuries. Lawyer time.

In any case, you need to have your own copy of the police report so you know what it says. I can guarantee the insurance companies have copies.

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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)

Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Izzybee
Shipmate
# 10931

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Thanks, Monkeylizard and everyone else.

Thankfully, we're in scenario one. Driver had insurance, and even admits on the police report that he made an illegal left turn (easy to do in Washington, DC - I feel sorry for the guy).

We've got the police report now and it's got all the driver's insurance information on it, so tomorrow we're going to call the insurance company. I'm just concerned about time off work, since he's the only one of us wuth a job - and medical bills, since (obviously) they gave him every scan known to man in the emergency room.

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Hate filled bitch musings...

Posts: 1336 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Aelred of Riveaux
Shipmate
# 12833

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quote:
Originally posted by Izzybee:
My wonderful mum and several wonderful friends of mine occasionally throw some tea in the post to me and it's never been a problem. I think meat and seeds/fruit/veg is what they're looking for, customs wise.

Thanks Izzybee, that's great
Posts: 161 | From: Cambridge UK | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Nunzia

Shipmate
# 4766

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I'm trying to remember a Spanish word I once heard, that means the crusty bits of rice at the bottom of the pot.

I googled and found raspa, quemada and pegao but none of them is the word I'm looking for.

This isn't a matter of life and death, but it's forming a crusty bit at the bottom of my brain. Can anybody help me out?

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Posts: 1903 | From: Crazy-glued to the ledge | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238

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quote:
Originally posted by Nunzia:
I'm trying to remember a Spanish word I once heard, that means the crusty bits of rice at the bottom of the pot.

I believe the word you want is soccorat.

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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction

My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com

Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Nunzia

Shipmate
# 4766

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No, that's not it. I have heard that word used for the crusty bits of paella.

That may be what it is called in Spain. The other words are regional also. One is Cuban Spanish and another is Puerto Rican Spanish.

I expect the word I'm looking for is Mexican or Central American Spanish.

I'll know it when I hear it. Actually I've heard two words, but one is a diminutive of the other IIRC.

Posts: 1903 | From: Crazy-glued to the ledge | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

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Around France and also in Spaion, I've seen cars with either silhouetted donkeys or bulls on the back - and today I saw a reindeer/moose! I have no idea what the significance of these are. Does anyone else know?

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40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458

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Does anyone have any advice about how to clean the grout around discoloured bathroom tiles? I have some of the stuff which you repaint on top after you've cleaned them, but the advice is to clean them first and nothing seems to shift the stains. I've tried Cif and other similar products but no luck.

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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Bleach and a toothbrush was my sisters recommended method. Only do this if you have the stuff to put on top as it slowly wears away the grout. The second part was learnt due to my mother using the first.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
monkeylizard

Ship's scurvy
# 952

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to make it look really good.... a grout saw and some new grout. Followed by a sealant.

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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)

Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458

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quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
to make it look really good.... a grout saw and some new grout. Followed by a sealant.

What's a grout saw?

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Zoey

Broken idealist
# 11152

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Is putting a mattress directly onto the floor (instead of onto a bed-frame or divan base or whatever) inherently bad for:

1) The person sleeping on the mattress?

and/or

2) The life and quality over time of the mattress?

If so, why?

Or, to put it a different way, do bedframes serve any purpose other than aesthetics and making it less far to bend down in order to get into bed?

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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.

Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294

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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Louise
Is Urine more sterile....

I used to know a man who was in the German army in World War 2. He said that the soldiers were instructed that if they were wounded and there was no immediate medical help available, they should put urine on the wound to disinfect it.

Moo

In Somerset Maugham's novel 'Catalina' (set in Spain during Inquisition times) the heroine nightly washes her hands in her own urine to keep them white. (see page 152)

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You can't retire from a calling.

Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by mountainsnowtiger:
Is putting a mattress directly onto the floor (instead of onto a bed-frame or divan base or whatever) inherently bad

I believe it's about condensation. Allowing the circulation of air around a mattress stops it going mouldy. One of those facts that one would rather not think about is that a mattress collects in - X years, I can't remember how many - sufficient detritus in the way of shed skin to make a whole human being. Then there's dust mites.

Having said that, I existed for several years on mattresses on the floor without ill effects.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by mountainsnowtiger:
Is putting a mattress directly onto the floor (instead of onto a bed-frame or divan base or whatever) inherently bad for:

1) The person sleeping on the mattress?

and/or

2) The life and quality over time of the mattress?

If so, why?

Or, to put it a different way, do bedframes serve any purpose other than aesthetics and making it less far to bend down in order to get into bed?

It creates storage space, and prevents foot injuries by giving you less toe-stubbing area (I am 6'3 and clumsy, so this is a big deal for me). Also, it makes it easier to move the bed if you need to move the bed away from the wall.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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No bedsprings. Put it on the floor and you're putting the mattress directly onto a hard flat surface, and you'll probably feel it. Don't move around too vigorously, you'll definitely feel it.

Also the aforementioned dust mites will be able to climb straight in from the carpet.

It hasn't killed anyone and I survived it myself for some weeks, but it wasn't as comfortable as it might have been. On the plus side, if you have a tendency to move around a lot in your sleep or fall out of bed, you don't have far to fall. The down side is that you can sometimes wake up on the carpet, with your face in the pile, and close-up carpet doesn't usually smell too nice or do your skin a lot of good.

Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zoey

Broken idealist
# 11152

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But non-divan bed-frames don't have bed-springs either? [Confused]

(I think overall the replies here are confirming my original ideas about moving into a not-very-furnished flat i.e. get new, decent-quality, shop-bought mattress asap; get some kind of bed-frame, costing as little as possible (*keeps an eye on ebay*), at some point in the next few weeks or months.)

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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.

Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by mountainsnowtiger:
But non-divan bed-frames don't have bed-springs either? [Confused]

Some years ago futons were the in-thing. They took a bit of getting used to.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Seeker963
Shipmate
# 2066

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I'm interested in finding out how to get a credit rating in the US in these difficult times. I'm happy for members of "the general public" to post, but I'd especially value the observations of anyone whose work involves approving credit or looking at credit ratings.

I'm a US citizen in my early 50s and have been living outside the US for 23 years; recently returned to the US. My husband is British, never lived in the US, now a legal resident. We have been refused a secured car loan by the bank on the grounds that we have no credit rating. We have quite a bit of money on deposit with this bank and we were willing to secure the loan with a CD for the duration of the loan. I'm wondering how on EARTH one gets a credit rating if one can't even get a secured loan? (N.b. we did talk to the bank manager who suggested this approach; it was the higher-ups on the corporate side who decided we were not loan-worthy.) We did try to apply for one retail credit card (Amazon) and that application was also rejected.

I've been given to believe that applying for too many loans and being rejected is bad for one's credit rating. Is this true?

We seem to be in a catch 22 situation here.

The money that we might borrow isn't really an issue. I'm more worried about jobs. My husband was lucky enough to be offered a job with the company he worked for in the UK (it wasn't a transfer, he had to resign from the UK branch and re-interview at the US branch). We agreed that I would look for a part-time job in order to spend time with my parents (the reason for our transatlantic move). But most hourly-paid jobs seem to tell you right off that they are going to conduct a credit check on you. Which means I'm out of the running before I've even started.

All knowledgeable comments appreciated. I'm especially interested in how credit scoring operates in real life.

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"People waste so much of their lives on hate and fear." My friend JW-N: Chaplain and three-time cancer survivor. (Went to be with her Lord March 21, 2010. May she rest in peace and rise in glory.)

Posts: 4152 | From: Northeast Ohio | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
monkeylizard

Ship's scurvy
# 952

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credit scores are used as a cheap/fast way to do underwriting. We use them (among other things) in the insurance world to set rates. However, we are more than capable of doing a manual underwrite if requested or required. Ask the bank to manually underwrite the loan and stop being so lazy. It takes more time to do it that way, so they don't normally offer it.

Manual underwriting involves looking at a person's income, savings, current debt and total net assets. Then they decide how much of a risk you are and from there can decide to offer you their services or not.

On the other side, a credit rating can be established once you have regular bills like utilities, and you pay them on time every time. One late payment can kill your rating.

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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)

Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Seeker963
Shipmate
# 2066

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quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
credit scores are used as a cheap/fast way to do underwriting. We use them (among other things) in the insurance world to set rates. However, we are more than capable of doing a manual underwrite if requested or required. Ask the bank to manually underwrite the loan and stop being so lazy. It takes more time to do it that way, so they don't normally offer it.

Manual underwriting involves looking at a person's income, savings, current debt and total net assets. Then they decide how much of a risk you are and from there can decide to offer you their services or not.

On the other side, a credit rating can be established once you have regular bills like utilities, and you pay them on time every time. One late payment can kill your rating.

Thanks, this is helpful. I guess we just need to wait and keep paying those utility bills. Hope I manage to get a job sometime this century.

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"People waste so much of their lives on hate and fear." My friend JW-N: Chaplain and three-time cancer survivor. (Went to be with her Lord March 21, 2010. May she rest in peace and rise in glory.)

Posts: 4152 | From: Northeast Ohio | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Otter
Shipmate
# 12020

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Talk to your banker, explain your credit problem, and see if you can get a low-limit bank-issued credit card that doesn't have exorbinant intrest rates. You can use it judiciously and pay it off promptly to help build your credit rating.

Our credit rating has not always been the best, but Mr. Otter was still able to get a job with the trading arm of a large financial firm - I assume they were looking for certain red-flag items that would indicate embezellement risk, not just overall score.

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data", YMMV, limited-time offer, IANAL, no purchase required, and the state of CA has found this substance to cause cancer in laboratory aminals

Posts: 1429 | From: Chicago, IL 'burbs | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Seeker963
Shipmate
# 2066

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quote:
Originally posted by Otter:
Talk to your banker, explain your credit problem, and see if you can get a low-limit bank-issued credit card that doesn't have exorbinant intrest rates. You can use it judiciously and pay it off promptly to help build your credit rating.

Probably sensible advice. Although it was my bank manager who thought a car loan would be a better idea than a credit card. I've now been advised to try to get a "credit" card with a secured line of credit. The interest rate on that is 20.99% which actually seems to be a fairly decent rate for that sort of card. I recently closed one of my UK credit cards and, as an incentive to stay "on account of my good credit rating" - oh the irony - the bank was prepared to give me an 8% rate.

Another question for the professionals:

Does it harm your credit rating if you pay off your balance in full every month? Some people have told me that this prevents you from actually borrowing and that therefore it doesn't go toward your credit rating. This seems wacky but then the whole system seems wacky.

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"People waste so much of their lives on hate and fear." My friend JW-N: Chaplain and three-time cancer survivor. (Went to be with her Lord March 21, 2010. May she rest in peace and rise in glory.)

Posts: 4152 | From: Northeast Ohio | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Don't fuss too much about the job issue. Your application/resume will quickly make it obvious that you've been living outside the U.S. for yonks, and anyone with half a brain is going to realize your situation is unique. Second, I'm sure there's a difference between "no credit rating" and "bad credit rating"--otherwise no college student in the States would get a job. The traditional way to build credit is to start with a gas card and a telephone in your name, progress to utilities (but you're adult so you'll be doing that already!) and then a department credit card or three, and finally one of the major cards.

As for the bank that turned you down for a secured loan(!), you might reconsider whether you want to be customers there. We had one do something v. similar and it turned out to be a case of racism. Went to a different one and got offered three times the money unsecured.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Zoey

Broken idealist
# 11152

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I wasn't going to post the following, because it's UK-based, but it sounds like there might be a bit of overlap / still some useful thoughts for you, Seeker963 -

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/loans/credit-rating-credit-score

AFAI can tell, Martin Lewis, the guy behind Money Saving Expert, really knows what he's talking about in relation to the UK financial scene. He regularly appears on BBC Radio 1 and talks *a lot* of sense. As I said, I wasn't going to paste the link, as it's UK-based, but based on your most recent post there are a couple of bits on that page which - if they are the same in the US as the UK - look like they might be useful for you to know. The first of those is the bit about different lenders looking for different things. The second is the bit (which I particularly remembered after your most recent post) about lenders rejecting you if they can spot that you always pay off your credit in full - they want customers who they can make profit from, i.e. those who, while not defaulting, don't pay off in full (because the lender can then make money from the interest).

Still not sure how useful it is as a UK page, but hope it might help a bit.

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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.

Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Seeker963
Shipmate
# 2066

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Lamb Chopped, we'll see if this proves to be an issue re employment. Because I'm trying to care for my parents part-time, the kind of jobs I'm looking for tend to ask you to fill out an application on the computer. These don't have any room for information they don't ask for; e.g. I can't offer an email address instead of a phone number. I'm assuming that they are all pre-screened by a computer. I need to actually be able to talk to a human being but I've walked into places with 'help wanted' signs out front only to be told to go apply on line.

Moutainsnowtiger: an interesting article. I guess I'm trying to learn what "the rules" are in the US, though. But thanks.

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"People waste so much of their lives on hate and fear." My friend JW-N: Chaplain and three-time cancer survivor. (Went to be with her Lord March 21, 2010. May she rest in peace and rise in glory.)

Posts: 4152 | From: Northeast Ohio | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
monkeylizard

Ship's scurvy
# 952

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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker963:
Does it harm your credit rating if you pay off your balance in full every month? Some people have told me that this prevents you from actually borrowing and that therefore it doesn't go toward your credit rating. This seems wacky but then the whole system seems wacky.

Normally, no. Your rating is built from ratios of debt to things like your net assets and your total available credit. It then moves up and down based on total amounts in those ratios, any late payments, and the total volume of credit activities. Even current balances apply towards the debt part of those ratios. Paying off the card balance in full is not going to hurt your rating, and IMO it's critical for financial success. Debt is bad in personal finance.

It used to be that a debt:limits ratio of 20% was enough for a good rating, but that's closer to 10% now. So if you have a total credit limit available to you of $10,000, carrying more than $1,000 to $1,500 at any time on those cards is generally bad for your score. That includes the current balance, not just outstanding.

It is true that some card issuers (really lousy ones) cancelled some accounts over the past year where the card holder never carried a balance. But by and large, this is not a problem. Whether you pay interest or not, the card issuer still makes money on every transaction you make in the form of fees charged to the merchant.

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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)

Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged



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