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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: The green blade re-riseth (gardening thread anew)
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
I'm giving them a bit of liquid organic fertiliser, but it says on the bottle that you gotta use some now for each and every watering. Is this true? If I water them daily, won't that be too much power then?
Depends on the type of fertilizer you are using. Can you give us more specifics?
We use organic fertilizer for all our plants: various combinations of dry ingredients such as greensand, potash, cotton seed meal, granite dust, etc. This breaks down very slowly over time so there is no problem with overfertilizing - mixing it into the soil while planting is sufficient for a whole season, or for several years for perennials and shrubs. It does have to be applied in the root zone, however, as it doesn't move easily through the soil.
Since many of these come in half-hundredweight bags, it isn't practical for most small gardeners to mix their own. They rely on the microrhyzomes in the soil to break them down, and sterile soil may not have these.
Some of the liquids are water soluable so they wash out of the soil with watering. If you are are just lightly watering so the soil never becomes waterlogged, that may be OK. If you soak the pots until water runs out the bottom you'll wash out the fertilizer.
Fertilizer choice also depends on what you are growing: high nitrogen is good for growing leaves. Phosphorus encourages roots and fruits. Potassium makes stronger plants, especially winter hardiness. Your lettuce would do best with higher nitrogen, while the same fertilizer may encourage too much top growth on radishes at the expense of root growth. (In the same way tomatoes fed a high-nitrogen diet make lots of leaves but relatively few fruit.) Most plants need a mix, but the optimum mix may be different.
But don't let that stop you! Use the fertilizer sparingly and see how the plants respond to it. Find something that provides balanced nutrition: there are many other trace elements including selenium, zinc, etc. that are important in very small amounts, and plants may not do a well if it is missing from your growing medium.
Then enjoy your salads!
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Right, I have finally got round to doing something about the garden - namely getting in a firm of landscapers.
They have only been working for 2 days, and already the garden has quadrupled in size. I am shortly going to have to think about what to plant on all these rolling steppes.
Any suggestions for ground cover for this particular niche - a strip between the fence and a newly-laid paved path. There is a straggle of beech plants - they hardly amount to a hedge - but I would like to keep them, and one other shrub. Towards one end, it forms a little bank. The aspect is south-facing, so it will get fair sun, and the soil is clay. I would like something that scrambles about and flowers, like nasturiums (but the soil is too rich for them).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Ground cover roses? Love clay, love sunshine and will ramble and scramble over a bank.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Yellow archangel? It's quite pretty, even the leaves. I also like sweet woodruff, though the flowers are very small.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carex:
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
I'm giving them a bit of liquid organic fertiliser, but it says on the bottle that you gotta use some now for each and every watering. Is this true? If I water them daily, won't that be too much power then?
Depends on the type of fertilizer you are using. Can you give us more specifics? [...]
Thank you, Carex, for your extremely detailed reply! Fascinating!
Here goes: My fertiliser consists of 5.5% N, 3% P2O5, 6% K2O, 0.6% Ca, 0.225% Mg, 0.01% B, 0.005% Cu, 0.008% Fe, 0.006% Mn, 0.003% Zn, chelator: DTPA, 28-32% organic matter.
I hope that helps. Thanks again.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
Now it looks like we'll still be in our existing house for a few more months, I've realised my veg beds are empty (well, apart from the rhubarb and the strawberries). I need to get planting, fast. Will have to wander round the garden centre later and see what will grow in a few weeks, I guess.
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
quote:
Originally posted by Carex:
Depends on the type of fertilizer you are using. Can you give us more specifics? [...]
Thank you, Carex, for your extremely detailed reply! Fascinating!
Here goes: My fertiliser consists of 5.5% N, 3% P2O5, 6% K2O, 0.6% Ca, 0.225% Mg, 0.01% B, 0.005% Cu, 0.008% Fe, 0.006% Mn, 0.003% Zn, chelator: DTPA, 28-32% organic matter.
I hope that helps. Thanks again. [/QB]
That looks like a reasonably good general mix. One question would be the availability of the components to the plants. For example, you can't just pump nitrogen gas into the mix and expect the plant to absorb it. The nitrogen as to be in some sort of organic compound that breaks down into a form the plants can use. Some types such as fish emulsion break down quickly, so need to be applied regularly in small doses. Others such as feather meal break down more slowly, so can be applied all at once and then provide a continuing source of nutrients over time.
From your description of the directions, it appears that the stuff you have is designed to be available to the plant quickly, which probably means it is water soluable and will wash through if the plant is watered heavily.
Of course, this and the optimum watering practice also depend on your potting medium. With peat moss you want to make sure that you keep it from drying out: it is very difficult to get dry peat re-hydrated in a pot. We typically drench a new pot to make sure the peat is damp, then water as needed. Unless the roots already reach the bottom of the container, by the time you give it enough water to keep the bottom peat damp you've probably washed out the fertilizer. (But if the bottom is staying damp due to lack of drainage, that isn't good for the plant either.)
A deep watering once a week or so (accompanied with fertilizer application) and lighter watering between times may work. If your potting medium has a lot of organic material it shouldn't need a lot of fertilizer. If not, it will. Try it gently and see how the plants respond.
[spelling]
[ 04. May 2008, 13:56: Message edited by: Carex ]
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
Hurrah! hurrah! Today I made the first serious (i.e. of freezable quantity) harvest at my allotment - rhubarb and asparagus. Hopefully when I use it in the winter it will bring back memories of this sunny day.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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aj
firewire technophobe
# 1383
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Posted
Oooh - we have a silly amount of Rhubarb... is it best to cook it first before freezing? I never know with freezing!
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if there's no god, then who turns on the light when you open the fridge?
Posts: 2994 | From: ...on location | Registered: Sep 2001
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
I don't know much about freezing rhubarb either - int he past I've chopped it into 2 inch long chunks and frozen on a tray so I can shake out as much as I need. It seemed to work fine on bought rhubarb previously but this time I thought I'd follow what various websites said and cooked the chunks for 1 min in boiling water and then froze it on a tray. (I did roughly the same for the asparagus too).
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
sorry about the double posting but I forgot the way I usually freeze rhubarb ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I cook it and then put it into portion sized tubs (margerine tubs usually). Perfect!
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439
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Posted
Something really unbelievable, to my mind, has happened---the little greengage plum tree I planted last year actually has a lone blossom on it. I had heard (after, of course, buying and planting said tree) that greengage plums are notoriously reluctant to flower...
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Bad Christian (TM)
Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Thanks, Carex, for your expert advice. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
This is absolutely exciting: gardening as a nearly academic subject, and with the same seriousness. I must say I like that - it certainly contributes to a less panicky, more realistic approach to those living creatures that plants are. Well, I never knew! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I've now checked the plant labels and on most it says to use fertiliser just once weekly, which is probably sensible, and is as suggested by you.
All my plants are coming along nicely, even the radishes. Brilliant to see them grow bigger every day. And no aphids around yet, so it seems I've beat them at least for the time being, though it's only early May.
I might harvest the first batavia lettuces soon, though as they're in pots, I'll get them earlier and thus slighty smaller than one would in a proper garden. Looking forward to devouring those, really! - We'll see how it goes through the summer, and how many lettuces I can get out of them.
I've purchased again some lemon balm and for the first time some lemon thyme. They're on the same shelf as my mint, and give off this lovely scent when I open the greenhouse door (well, it's a shelf, actually) or sit next to it - which is part of the fun!
The only problem currently is my bear's garlic / ramsons (Allium ursinum), which was a bit of an experiment anyway. It needs a humid and relatively shady place, which I think it's got in a corner of my balcony. However, and despite regular watering and fertilising, a least one leaf has turned yellow and fallen off, and I suspect some others might follow, hmmm... As it's a perennial, it might recover eventually. Still, you can't win them all, can you.
Highly enjoyable reading about your gardening joys (and sorrows). Very nice thread indeed.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
A while ago when I was at the dump (OK, the household waste recycling centre) I rather rashly scanvanged a water barrel for the allotment even though I detected a whiff of something that I thought might be liquid fertiliser, but might be weedkiller (I tend not to use chemicals if I can help it so they end up all smelling the same to me). I had hoped that if it was weedkiller the quantity of clean water would dilute it enough. But now the state of watered plants makes me wonder if it was weedkiller. I've emptied the barrel now, and not all my plants were watered with it because I am trying to use the rainwater I bring from home, leaving the barrel for when I forget or call in on the allotment without a supply for that visit.
Does anyone here know how (if?!?) I can clean the water barrel ? Or will I be taking it back to the dump ?
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
I don't know much about cleaning water barrels, daisydaisy, but I'd actually say, take it back if you can.
Especially with chemical solutions of unknown origin and composition I'd personally be rather reluctant, and even more so if it is about edible greeneries.
But I know exactly how you're feeling - something for free, looks nice, let's grab it - and then it turns out less perfect than you think: happened to me repeatedly... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) - well, you live and learn, eh?
Just my 2p.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Talking about edible greeneries:
My first lettuce was very luvverly, as was adding my own chive, parsley and a bit of lovage! Mmmh! An entirely new impression: popping outside with a knife and a bowl, getting what you want and back in again, preparing all in your kitchen there and then. Certainly makes me more aware of (as they say) where the food we eat comes from.
On the pest control front, I put my bear's garlic in plain sunlight (which is not advised, but hey, it was an emergency), and low and behold, I've found two or three very tiny caterpillars on the leaves and stem, as well as some egg-like thingies. Eeek! I promptly removed these and also one withered leaf, leaving the still green and seemingly strong stem, however. Perhaps it'll regrow, we'll see.
Well, and regarding aphids, it now appears that the very warm and sunny weather of the last few days's got them moving, and they invaded, just like last year, the two bottom troughs containing some lettuce, radishes, lovage and parsley... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) - I've treated them with an (I think) organic anti-aphid spray, with 0.05% primicarb (0.5g/litre). This means at least two weeks without any of those delicacies; luckily the plants'll probably make it, like they did last year.
I had been wondering whether I won't one day get rid of the two about 50cm-long troughs and use smaller, individual pots instead. It seems the the nasties just crawl over all the plants in one trough. Having separate, and smaller, ones might help limiting the damage by temporarily removing infected plants. Hm...
But until then I'll munch on the remaining lettuces and radishes and other things and shall be content.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
There are a number of organic pest control methods that are useful in small quantities. Perhaps the simplest (though a bit time consuming) is simply to squish the offenders in your fingers.
One approach is to attract or introduce predatory insects to your garden such as these. (Not to be confused with this shipmate.)
Some searching on the web should also find a number of sprays that you can use: you can try vinegar or hot pepper oil, either of which would add seasoning to your salad in addition to creating a less hospitable environment for aphids et. al. There are other similar options. Don't expect all such suggestions to actually work, however, so monitor the results and change approach as needed.
A product we have used is Safer Insecticidal Soap (apparently now marketed as Concern Insect Killing Soap.) Not only can this be used up to the day before harvest, but being a soap it washes off easily. In fact, the whole Safer brand website is full of useful information on pest identification and organic control methods. You may be able to find similar products locally.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Like a dutiful little greenie, I have been lately taking all fruit and vegetable kitchen waste to the compost bin.
This time of year, there is probably more of that than there are grass cuttings, weeds etc.
I would say, from lifting the lid, it is probably maggot heaven in there.
So how long before all this rotting and buzzing produces nice, friable, unsmelly compost, d'ye think?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
I have just potted on some courgettes. Do I need to do anything to the plants apart from water and feed them?
I have also sewn some mange tout seeds. When they come through do I need to provide supports for them, or will they sort themselves out?
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
How many courgettes? Each one is capable of producing enormous quantities. I'd think that two to three plants would be ample for most famllies, since they're basically just water and, IMO, not worth freezing.
Stories abound over here of deperate gardeners skulking through the darkness leaving baskets of unwanted courgettes at the doors of their unsuspecting friends...nightly. And of friends digging pits in the garden every day to dispose of the courgettes that have been left on their doorsteps.
You have to check them twice a day when they start flowering. Lift every leaf to see what's underneath. Otherwise you'll miss something the size of your little finger, and next day -- if it rains and there's just a little sun -- it will be big enough to stuff and serve as the main course for a family of four.
I suppose you could pickle them, like cucumbers, and supply the WI stall at the local market for the whole of the season.
John
(only slightly exaggerating)
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So how long before all this rotting and buzzing produces nice, friable, unsmelly compost, d'ye think?
Under ideal circumstances, you can have compost in a month -- but mostly kitchen waste isn't ideal. A compost pile likes to have a nice mix of "greens" and "browns." Grass clippings, kitchen waste, and the like are greens. Straw, dead leaves, dried out weeds, and such are "brown."
If you have too high a proportion of greens, it will not get enough air, and you'll have anaerobic bacteria, slime, and icky smells. If you have too high a proportion of browns, it will stay too dry, and it will take a very long time to turn into compost.
You'll sometimes find strict instructions about proportions, but there's really a lot of leeway. If your compost is slimy and smelly, add browns. If it's too dry, add water. (You want it to have enough water so that it's like a rung-out sponge.) If it dries out again immediately, add greens.
Compost piles that are too small don't compost as quickly as larger piles. You need at least 3' by 3' to really heat it up. And if it's nice and hot, you won't get the maggots and the icky smells.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
I have a garden emergency. I put in a bunch of new perennials this year, right before the great midwestern deluge. It rained for several days in a row and the soil was really saturated. I had an inch or two of standing water in the perennial bed and it took a few days to drain. Everything has survived just fine with the exception of the new bleeding heart plant. It's gone all yellow, which I imagine is a sign of being overwatered. Is there anything I can do to salvage it at this point?
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Stories abound over here of deperate gardeners skulking through the darkness leaving baskets of unwanted courgettes at the doors of their unsuspecting friends...nightly. And of friends digging pits in the garden every day to dispose of the courgettes that have been left on their doorsteps.
I planted 2 courgette plants. It is hard when you are growing these things for the first time to know what quantities to grow.
I have been thinking about suggesting that we have a produce stall at church where people can bring in their garden surplus and others can buy it for a donation to church funds.
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
I was about to suggest making several loaves of zucchini bread for the freezer or giving away. But having a harvest booth at church sounds like a great idea!
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Thank you, Josephine, for the composting advice.
I can't do a lot about the size, since it's in a bin, and at the moment a limited amount about adding 'brown' since at this time of year everything in the garden is still green and sappy.
What about newspaper? Would that count as a brown?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
What about newspaper? Would that count as a brown?
Newspaper is fine, although you need to tear, and scrunch it, otherwise it forms a mat. Cardboard is good too, and the compost heap is a good place to dispose of your shredded 'confidential' documents if you are concerned about identity theft.
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Talk about books -any books- on our rejuvenatedforum http://www.bookgrouponline.com/index.php?
Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Like a dutiful little greenie, I have been lately taking all fruit and vegetable kitchen waste to the compost bin.
This time of year, there is probably more of that than there are grass cuttings, weeds etc.
I would say, from lifting the lid, it is probably maggot heaven in there.
So how long before all this rotting and buzzing produces nice, friable, unsmelly compost, d'ye think?
Are you adding earth every so often (as a layer in the pile, I mean)? That ought to help with the rotting and buzzing.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
I have a garden emergency. I put in a bunch of new perennials this year, right before the great midwestern deluge. It rained for several days in a row and the soil was really saturated. I had an inch or two of standing water in the perennial bed and it took a few days to drain. Everything has survived just fine with the exception of the new bleeding heart plant. It's gone all yellow, which I imagine is a sign of being overwatered. Is there anything I can do to salvage it at this point?
It probably is the extreme wet. Any chance of moving it to somewhere drier for the time being to let it recover? A good feed, and it might recover for next season if you're lucky?
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
My sister-in-law, who has done gardening for ages, and is now more old and less fit, has been given a very small olive tree (maybe 7"), in a small pot.
She knows she needs to replant it in a pot, and she asked me what kind of "earth" to use for it - i haven't a clue.
What should she use, meaning what kind should she buy for it?
[ 22. June 2008, 13:15: Message edited by: daisymay ]
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
My mother had an olive tree on good old California clay and hard pan, and never did naught for it. It throve. So I imagine just about any dirt would do the trick, but if she wants to spoil it rotten, ordinary potting soil would do just fine.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
That's the problem - there are so many choices here in UK about potting soil, all for sale.
So what does she need to use and what does she need to avoid?
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Bearing in mind that I've never potted up an olive tree before, and that my only experience is as stated above, ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I'd say, avoid the completely soil-less mixes. Our olive tree liked clay. You can't get further away from clay than soil-less, so I'd probably avoid it. Unless there's a concern about the pot getting too heavy (like on a balcony, with a large pot?), in which case I'd use the mix and not fuss. I think it's going to be hard to kill it off, frankly.
Personal preference, but I'd also avoid the stuff that comes with plant food mixed into the soil already. She doesn't want that olive tree to get ten feet tall overnight, so why bother? And they do just fine without any extra help that way at all.
What does that leave? Probably the el cheap-o potting soil, which is handy for the wallet. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) Go for that stuff, and it'll be fine. Spend the money you save on the pot (or maybe on a bonsai class, since olive trees by nature want to be... trees.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Agent Smith
Shipmate
# 3299
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Posted
back to the courgette thing
I am very new to growing stuff, and have bought a singular courgette plant, a chilli plant and a pepper plant.
All are growing well in thier little pots, however the courgette plant seems to flower (lovely) and then give up on growing into a bumper crop of courgettes that I can give to unsuspecting people
What am I doing wrong, and do I need to get another courgette plant so that I have a "Mummy" courgette plant and a "Daddy" courgette plant?
Please let me know what I am not doing right, I dont want this selection to turn into a dead twig arrangement ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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"I'm so English, I am probably descended from a Cricket Bat and a cup of tea".
James May - 20th Century
http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentsmith1974/
Posts: 536 | From: Inside M25 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
Courgettes, melons, cucumbers and the like have both male and female flowers. The female flowers have some sort of swelling at the base which develops into the fruit when it is fertilized. You may be seeing the male flowers (which may be more out on the branches, while the female flowers tend to be in close to the base.) It is a bit difficult to describe without having one here in front of me, but pay attention and you should see the difference. When you do find a female flower you can manually fertilise it with a male one.
It isn't unusual for a plant to produce male flowers before the females.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carex:
[...] When you do find a female flower you can manually fertilise it with a male one. [...]
Ooh, the fun to be had in gardening. I never knew! Be gentle, darling, please! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I feel there's a book to be written - Sex and the Single Vegetable.
Talking of which, I am wondering about the possibilities of growing some veggies in my garden. It's not large - about 40 ft square, and two-thirds shaded by a large, old tree.
However, there is an area along the sunnier edge which might be cultivatable: it would be about 20 ft x 6 ft and is presently down to what we laughingly call lawn - a mixture of coarse grass, buttercup, plantain etc.
How much labour would it need to render it plantable?
Would you have to lift the turf, or could you just dig it in?
What would be practical crops to grow in that amount of space?
Given I'm in Scotland, it would have to be your hardy northern stuff.
[ 25. June 2008, 08:28: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Firenze, you could cheat this year and use growbags and pots along the sunny side of the garden, advice about container growing vegetables - advice there for strawberries and potatoes in tubs. You can put growbags into trays.
I managed to get radishes, lettuces and other greens in growbags plus some beans in pots together with a primary school gardening club starting about now. There was enough of the salad six weeks later to serve as the salad for the school lunches in the last week. The long school holidays complicate things, so a lot of plants we grew went home with the kids.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I did think about container growing. I have about a dozen pots of herbs as is.
I can see advantages in less digging, stooping etc (which I find quite hard). But there isn't really room on the quite small patio, plus, in dry spells, once the saved rainwater's used up, every drop has to be fetched quite a distance (including stairs).
If I were to try a container though, would it be too late in the year to start planting now?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Agent Smith: quote:
I am very new to growing stuff, and have bought a singular courgette plant, a chilli plant and a pepper plant.
Unless the instructions with it - assuming that there are any, and that they make any sense - say otherwise, you will probably need quite a big pot for a courgette, at least nine or ten inches, and will need to feed it regularly as well - as I grow mine out on the allotment on top of a big pile of manure, I'm not sure what with. Anyone? By the way, if you have flowers you are ahead of me, and Firenze (?) is right about the first ones often being male.
I don't recall having to hand-pollinate my courgettes, though marrows and pumpkins often appreciate a hand. Once you've seen the two flowers, though, it's pretty obvious - think basic human biology and you can't go far wrong.
The peppers are probably less fussy, though the sweet pepper needs as much light and warmth as it can get. You can certainly get peppers outdoors in a good summer - will we get one, I wonder? - and cayennes and chillis will keep going right up to the first frosts.
Hope that helps,
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
You can tell I've done this most recently with schools* - but the Garden Organic for Schools site planting suggestions for July are: quote:
Sow Indoors in pots or modules - basil, spring cabbage, calabrese, Chinese cabbage.
Sow Direct - French bean, beetroot, calabrese, carrot, cauliflower, Chinese cabbage, lettuce, spring onion, pea, mangetout, radish, spinach, Swiss chard turnip.
Plant Outdoors - sprouting broccoli, calabrese, cauliflower, kale, leek.
Now some of that lot will be for autumn crops - the French bean, lettuce, spring onion, pea, mangetout and radish certainly.
* Living in a first floor flat with a communal garden and no balcony or outside window boxes, the only realistic option for vegetable gardening is an allotment, and I'm wimping out on that. I do have a box of herbs on the windowsill.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
However, there is an area along the sunnier edge which might be cultivatable: it would be about 20 ft x 6 ft and is presently down to what we laughingly call lawn - a mixture of coarse grass, buttercup, plantain etc.
How much labour would it need to render it plantable?
Would you have to lift the turf, or could you just dig it in?
How about building raised beds?
They would need to be no more than 4' wide, with a path both sides for access, but could be as long as you like.
You wouldn't necessarily need to lift the turf if you didn't want to. You could kill off the grass/weeds with glyphosate, and add soil/compost to the depth of the raised beds. Alternatively, if the beds are deep and the plants didn't need to go down below current soil level, you could put down a weed-suppressant membrane and put your raised beds on top.
The beds could be made from scrap timber, or bought as kits, or built from stone/breeze blocks or bricks. Filling them could be expensive.
We have built 5 raised beds over the last two years: two measuring 8'X4' X12" deep, one measuring 6'X4' X 8"deep and two measuring 6'X4' X4" deep. My husband found someone clearing the ground to build an extension, and wheeled all the soil for the beds round home in a wheelbarrow. We mixed it with spent compost from our patio pots and the contents of our compost heap.
You are unlikely to get this all done this year, but could cover over the ground you intend to cultivate, and plant up some containers on top of it, to get you started.
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Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
If I were to try a container though, would it be too late in the year to start planting now?
No, not too late at all. I just put some courgettes in a tub a week ago. You are further north that me, so this would be an ideal time for it.
The best tip I can give just now is find a lovely local, little nursery and make friends with the staff. Buy a few bits and pieces, then go back the next week for a few more, and a few more. Ask advice from the staff. Tell them how things are progressing in your little patch. The knowledge that the staff have will save you from many mistakes and will open up possibilities.
quote:
Firenze:
However, there is an area along the sunnier edge which might be cultivatable: it would be about 20 ft x 6 ft
20' is a lot of space to start planting. You might like to start with a smaller area, and see how you get on. You can always add in more beds.
One of the ideas of raised beds is that you can reach every part of the bed without standing on the soil. 6' is really too wide for a single bed, but you could have 2 x 2' beds, with a central path for access.
Think about easy access, think about what would be a good height for you to work at. Does 2' sound like an okay amount for a path, or would you prefer a 3'6" bed and a wider path? What will meet your needs?
Another think to think about is mulch. Mulch can seriously improve the amount of water retained in the soil.
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
How much labour would it need to render it plantable?
Would you have to lift the turf, or could you just dig it in?
You might consider straw bale gardening as a way to simplify preparation and give the equivalent of a raised bed or container planting with less work.
I agree with the recommendation of asking a local nursery for advice. there are a lot of variables to consider, including local weather, hours of sunlight, soil temperature, etc. I'd certainly consider buying plants this late in the season rather than seeding them.
Compost is excellent for reducing water needs if you have a source for it. We have it delivered from a local mushroom farm (though... cough... in quantities somewhat larger than most backyard gardeners would need...) and it allows us to water our ornamental beds about once a month during the summer. The vegetables are on a drip system and get watered about twice a week.
An adequate supply of mulch also reduces the need to work the soil: when we plan far enough ahead we lay down compost in the autumn for next year's garden (after clearing the weeds.) Over the winter the worms work dirt up into it and it ages, then we plant straight into it in Spring. Since it is still somewhat raised it dries out and warms up faster in the Spring so we can get our plants started earlier. (Many summer plants such as tomatoes won't grow until the soil temperature reaches 13C regardless of the air temperature.)
It has been perhaps 10 years since we seriously worked the ground for a garden, other than clearing grass and weeds. Now we start plants in pots and just dig holes to put them in the ground (or into decayed mulch) rather than tilling up the whole garden. Not that hauling mulch isn't a lot of work, but not as bad as digging a bed.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I think I will have to discount the raised beds, because it would require too much material to be imported into the garden - retaining walls, soil etc.
There is no ground-level access to the garden. Everything has to be carried into the house, up a flight of stairs, down a flight, and out via a narrow path. Getting half a dozen sacks of gravel through for a rockery practically did for us. And did I mention the crucial door between the two flights only opens 60 degrees?
The organic place up the road stocks plants, but doesn't have a resident gardener to ask about stuff. Otherwise, it's just the local Homebase, or drive out of town (I don't drive).
However, I do have a lot of crumbly bricks. My thinking at the moment is that I could use those to mark out a couple of modest spaces for planting, adjacent to the paved bit where the herbs sit. If nothing else, I can possible relocate some of them into the ground.
I could expand over time in a series of bijou plotettes, so that the amount of work remains within time and strength I have for it.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I could expand over time in a series of bijou plotettes, so that the amount of work remains within time and strength I have for it.
Sounds like a plan!
A major project is all well and good, but I find that everything else in the garden (bindweed, nettles, brambles etc) creeps up on me while my attention is elsewhere.
Whatever you decide to do with your garden, keep it within the bounds of what you can manage, physically and time-wise, otherwise it is just another chore.
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Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
If you want to work in plotlettes, and you don't want to tote material, AND you have a certain amount of patience, here is the easiest (IMHO) way of doing it.
Mark out a (smallish) plot. Figure out where you want your tomatoes (or whatever). Dig that many holes, straight into the grass, as big (or small) as you care to make them. Me, I'd go for something the size of a half-gallon milk jug, but use your judgement.
Fill those holes up with compost or garden center top soil. Water the holes well.
Go and get as much newspaper or used printer/copier paper as you can wheedle out of your neighbors. (I, unfortunately, have an endless supply--church bulletins and etc. bah.) Lay those papers down between seven to twelve layers thick right on top of the grass, all around the holes. Leave the holes uncovered, though (use scissors if you're a neatnik. I'm not.)
Wet the paper down so it doesn't fly everywhere. Then lay down something on top of it--a few broomsticks? Some tree limbs? to keep it in place if the wind comes up. You won't need to do this for too long, so it doesn't matter if it's ugly.
Plant your plants. Have a drink. Congratulate yourself.
The next time you mow the grass, rake leaves, or do anything that generates plant matter-in-need-of-being-thrown-away, don't. Take the leaves / mown grass / coffee grounds and throw them on top of the paper, to weight it down and hide it. Be sure to water your plants (and the paper!) every few days.
Enjoy your baby garden and eat lots of tomatoes. Next year when gardening season starts, most of that paper will have rotted away, the ground beneath will be nice and soft (and the grass DEAD if you put it down thickly enough), and you won't have to do any digging at all, except to put your new plants in. Plus very few weeds. A new layer of paper (not quite so thick) will keep the weeds down the next year, if you wish.
This is how yours truly, the epitome of laziness, makes a new plot. Rinse, repeat.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Thanks, that definitely sounds a way to go.
The current problem is getting gardening at all. We are enjoying a Scottish summer - downpours every couple of hours. (I know, I know. If I were a Real Gardener, I would be out there in wellies and a piece of sacking over my head).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Brilliant stuff here!
A quick update on my balcony greenhouse.
To combat the aphids on some of my plants, of which there seemed to be quite a number, and despite using (soft) organic insecticide, I've now decided to buy a set of 30 ladybirds larvae, who in the end will grow into
quote:
[...] usu. predatory brightly coloured beetles of the family Coccinellidae, of which the most familiar kinds are brownish red with black spots.
Mine've got two spots. And hey, it is working! They're happily munching along on those bastardly aphids and have already grown from perhaps 3mm to 5mm or more. You can already see the two spots on their back - they are larvae, but look like tiny black centipedes with of course fewer legs. And boy, are they vigorously looking.
I'm still unsure as on how to proceed regarding fertiliser. The differentiation into root-boosting and leaf-boosting ones can't be done properly at the moment, as it seems. The respective elements can't be purchased in the required minute amounts for my few plants. I'm still using the liquid fertiliser described above, although as a result I only got 5 (five!) very yummy radishes so far, with their leaves however reaching gigantic proportions. Ok, I'm kidding, but Carex' experience on this, earlier in the thread, appears entirely correct. So, I'm still thinking.
I'm now experimenting with a small bag of organic soil with added ingredients produced by friendly worms in a compost, and which should further increase the correct nutritional balance. We'll see how that works.
More later.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Not a gardening question but one gardeners might know the answer to. If someone says "Peony Rose" to you what do you understand by it? A friend wants a photo of one.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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