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Source: (consider it) Thread: Circus: Mafia - the Valley of the Kings
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Only if you want to doff your cap to a very average Citizen, Arsene!

I've looked at the voting patterns and there's no suspicious pattern that I can find.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Seth thought long and hard about nominating Arsene. he was deeply suspicious of him, but it was just that - a suspicion. Not being great at maths, he was still trying to work out the scales of probability. If we have one person nominated and lynched there is a 50/50 chance they are a gardian (seeing that Rose too only has a suspicion about her nomination). So if Seth introduces a second candidate, does that increase or decrease the probability of getting a guardian? His head started to hurt. He still decided to take the risk and nominate Arsene

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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Voting opens

You may vote for:
  • Lt Madoc (AristonAstuanax), nominated by Rose Autenrieth (Autenrieth Road)
  • Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander), nominated by Mr Seth (fletcher christian)
  • no lynching

4 votes are needed to ensure a lynching.

--------------------
Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Why must the Army take me away from this blasted camp? It seems I've gotten back from haggling over supplies (no thanks to my captain for his "help;" with all due respect, Sir, I do believe wheat flour is a tad more important to our survival than that weak tea that only you drink, or the brandy only you are allowed) just in time to discover that I'm at risk of being executed by my own troops-and can't even nominate my own accuser. I think I may have accidentally hit on something during our first day of investigations here-I guess it's too late now to say anything that might justify my suspicions. Sweet Rose, how could I have been so blind?
But. M. Beauregard. Perhaps less likely to be guilty than Rose (only now do I see the half-suspected thorn), but more likely than me--or Seth, Dai, or Matilda, for that matter. We know that there are at least two Guardians amongst us; Rose and Arsene seem most likely to me (they certainly seem to be in agreement about a great many things in their supposed calculations), with, I suppose, Seth being a possible third cultist, if there indeed is one. Dai and I are always putting up alternate hypotheses that don't necissarily agree with Rose and Arsene's, while we know that Miss Smudgeson is innocent. Furthermore, as M. Beauregard has been an object of suspicion of our camp before, I see no reason to abandon our past reasonings about him. Simply because he is the last of our three most vocal "leaders" left alive (Andrew and Eli being the other two) seems, if anything, to count against him--perhaps he was the Guardian chosen to stick his neck out, stir up trouble in the camp, and sow division between those who might organize us against the assassins. Thus, Arsene, I think your time has come.
And if, God willing, we survive the night...Rose, the game is up.

(OoC: my Internet has been beyond flaky lately-I'm having to type this on an iPhone, which isn't much fun-which explains my lack of talking lately. Oh, and it's paperwriting season over here in Gradstudentland...)

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

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31 hours passed between my nomination of Madoc and Seth's nomination of Arsène.  If I had been right about Madoc being a Guardian, I would have expected the other Guardian at least (if Madoc was tied up) to step in sooner and protectively nominate an innocent and not risk that a Guardian would be the only nominee.

If Arséne is in fact a Guardian, this would suggest that Seth, who nominated him is innocent and Dai, by elimination, is the other Guardian.  Or perhaps Seth is playing a deceptive game and is himself a Guardian.  Or Seth and Dai are the Guardians, and we're faced with two innocent nominees.

Or perhaps Arsène and I are in cahoots.  But in that case, wouldn't I just go ahead and vote against Madoc?  As it is, I need to think about this more. I'm unsure who to vote against.

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Truth

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Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
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On the other hand, if the Guardians are Seth and Madoc, then, except for the delay in Seth's nomination of Arsène, they've behaved exactly as I would expect them to behave. Drat. Drat, drat, and drat.

[ 27. November 2010, 01:43: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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Truth

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Seth was delayed by a number of factors quite uncommon in most deserts, but a feature of this one: man flu, chatting with ck and think in the cafe and the utter disappointment that I sat through an hour and half of I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here without Gillian fainting once, which sent me to bed early.

I vote to lynch Arsene

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Autenrieth Road

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Right.  I've agonized all weekend.  I've reread the verbatim reports of goings-on in our benighted Camp Sarastro.  I've tried to apply a probabilistic analysis (to no great success).

I've come up with one reason for Seth (on the Seth/Madoc hypothesis) to have delayed his nomination of Arsène: he may have been waiting for someone else to nominate someone else, so he wouldn't have to look too obvious protecting Madoc.

On the other hand, Madoc was the first to nominate someone.  And Seth nominated someone early on when two other innocents were already nominated.  Neither of those seem particularly like the actions of Guardians trying to stay inconspicuous.

Arsène as he himself acknowledges looks terribly guilty, especially (to me) in his opposition to Eli from the very beginning.  (Although it all could be a case of terrible luck and poor judgement.)

Nevertheless, I can't shake the suspicion whispering "Seth/Madoc" to me.  So I'm going to leave the final decision in the hands of Dai and Smudgie.

I vote to lynch Lieutenant Owain D. R. Madoc, 24th Regiment of Foot.

[ 28. November 2010, 18:08: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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Truth

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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We seem to working on the principle that there are only two guardians. I suppose that if that's so then I'd better vote for the one I think is almost certainly a guardian. Arsene Beauregard.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Smudgie

Ship's Barnacle
# 2716

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One thing is certain - what must not be hung at the end of this round is the vote! Madoc I find extremely suspicious on one specific ground - his specific befriending of Rose. It is a good ploy by a guardian to link with another player. Possibly an innocent building of role, but possibly not. But one thing is certain - a hung vote is a greater risk to our ultimate survival than a hung townsperson. I too have been unconvinced by Arsene's verbal outpourings and believe him to be perfectly capable of producing a flurry of words and manipulative theories to cover his own tracks pretty convincingly. Maybe not convincingly enough though.

I too will vote for Arsene

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Miss you, Erin.

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Sylvander
Shipmate
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Aaargh!!! Just online for ten minutes I hasten to my trusted friends in the desert and what do I see?
I'm dead.
SMUDGIE! How could you?
I vote for Seth, just for the record.
Now, let me see.
Where is that death scene I left with the Divine Cat before I left? Hold on a second.

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Sylvander
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# 12857

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Arsène had withdrawn to his tent for a short respite. A mob, tired and wary from all its past failures but determined nonetheless had decided that he must die. He was almost convinced himself. Alas he knew, it would not help. Now they were deliberating how to kill him and had put a guard outside the tent. Arsène was resigned to his fate but slightly apprehensive of pain.

He poured himself some wine and sang wearily: Chevaliers de la table ronde,
goûtons voir si le vin est bon!
Ah, his life had not been wasted. Wine and song! As to the „women“ bit - to his regret Rose had never even deigned to turn down his invitation to a moonlight walk in the dunes, let alone accept it. Women - what a sex!

With the heat and a few glasses he became drowsy. Sleep came not refreshingly, but with weird dreams. He found himself turned into a scarabaeus sacer, rolling and rolling a big ball uphill on a dune whence it kept slipping from his legs to roll to the bottom again. He climbed down and laboriously started all over. Was that all there was to life?

Arsène never noticed the merciful hand that discreetly slipped through the flap in the canvas and poured a few drops into his bottle ....

He rolled over. Fear hit him now. He could barely stand the incertitude. Would they hang him? Shoot? Starve him? Stone him with cotton balls? He rose from his camp bed with a creak (bed or bones?), poured some more wine and pondered – people were murdered left right and centre, others were lynched and yet it seemed that no one was ever guilty!

The wine tasted funny. He suddenly became very tired again and had an urge to sleep. He slipped from his chair as we was humming for the last time:

Si je meurs je veux qu'on m'enterre
dans la cave où il y a bon vin.
Les deux pieds contre la muraille
Et la tête sous le robinet.

As he hit the ground his eyes closed and his mouth opened. „Beauregard, ye fools, not Beauregarde,“ he whispered.

Arsène was quiet forever. The camp gave a little sigh of relief.

--------------------
A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509

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Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Rose shakes sand out of her shoes,

How could Arsène not remember that walk in the sandy moonlight? She had quietly walked up to him and beckoned him out into the dunes. How else did Arsène think she had gotten that sand in her shoes, anyway? Sheesh, a girl tries to be discreet about her sandy walks with dashing lieutenants, and all she gets is forgotten. Hmmph.

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Truth

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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Arsène Beauregard 4 votes
Lt Madoc 1 vote
Mr Seth (who officially wasn't actually nominated, but no matter) 1 vote.

Arsène is lynched. He was a citizen.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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The heat is waning and the sun has started to set over Camp Sarastro. Everything seems strangely silent as the stars begin to come out.

Suddenly, the sky is rent by what is apparently a giant lightning strike, although there is no rain to be seen. The survivors look up in wonder and fear to see a giant chariot descending from the heavens, drawn by four giant jewelled scarabs. As it alights before the entrance to the tomb, an attendant runs up dressed in a ceremonial scarlet headdress and robe and sets down a ruby-studded bowl of milk. It is the Amun-Rouge-Ra the red cat goddess herself.

"You were warned," she says.
"Accursed be the one who disturbs the sleep of his majesty.
The King shall sleep in peace.
The curse has come to pass. The Guardians of Senkhet have taken control of Camp Sarastro.
"

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvander:
Chevaliers de la table ronde,
goûtons voir si le vin est bon!

Knights of the round table,
Let us taste and see if the wine is good!
quote:
Si je meurs je veux qu'on m'enterre
dans la cave où il y a bon vin.
Les deux pieds contre la muraille
Et la tête sous le robinet.

If I die I want to be buried
In the cellar where there is good wine.
Two feet against the wall,
And head under the tap.

--------------------
Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Doctor Rose Autenrieth huddled in the teatent with Miss Hyacinth Smudgeson.  She was glad her faith in Arsène Beauregard had been justified.  She was sorry she had lost faith in Eli Abrahams and switched from defending him (as she had been doing from the start) to defending Miss Smudgeson on that fatal night.  She had defended Miss Smudgeson last night, too, finally meeting with success.

Madoc, Seth, and Dai, Guardians.  So all her vote-agonizing today had made little difference, although she had the satisfaction of knowing she had at last (but too late) successfully named a Guardian.  She tried to distract herself with remembering moonlight sandy walks, and realized she was confused.  Had it been the Frenchman or the Lieutenant with whom she had promenaded?

"More tea, please," she whispered, hoarsely.  She raised her cup in a sad, final toast to the Innocents of Camp Sarastro.  Scarabs began to crawl under the tent walls.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857

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[Hover, hover]
How nice to know you were not a murderess!
Enjoy your tea! What happens to the survivors - will the Guardians slaughter you all?

[hovers off]

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A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Seth untied his camels and sent them off free into the desert. He wrapped his head in a scarf leaving only his eyes visible. He knew it was time to claim the victory. The Guardians had won the day and the King would rest peacefully. The Kings spirit moved on the air in approval and Seth's eyes glowed with the heat of it.

Now only one small matter remained: a tale of two ladies. Seth made his way to the tent where they had gathered. Upon reaching the tent he paused to summon the dead King's spirit and gather a persuasive case. Scrab beetles began to crawl out of the sand from underneath his feet and crawled under the flaps of the tent. Someone screamed, 'I'm an innocent, get me out of here!'. A pack of jackals circles the camp and bayed for blood and a lone vulture spun overhead in anticipatory excitement. Seth entered the tent.......

'Dear ladies, what an unexpected surprise. I bring you tidings from a mighty King long dead, whose spirit seeks rest and who longs for Guardians to care for his eternal repose. I have in my hand a bowl of Amun Rouge Ra's favourite cat chews. All you must do is make a choice.

Your first choice is this: eat the catnip infused holy cat chew and join the ranks of the immortal and indestructible Guardians and spend the rest of your days in the pleasant service of your king out here in the desert; or...

Your second choice is this: be slowly eaten by scarabs, jackals and a vulture and die here in the tent of ungodliness.

Muuuuhahahahahah! I know it's a hard decision, but now tell me; what will your decision be?!'

Seth stood and waited and refused the offer of a cup of tea while they thought about it.

'Dear ladies, ' he said, 'I ,ay be immortal, but I won't wait for ever. Make your choice!'

*Thank the gods we didn't have to make this offer to the priest; he has an allergen to cat nip.

[ 29. November 2010, 15:18: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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Dai wasn't sure what Seth was up to, but in the mean time he was busy in Whisker's tent faking details in Whisker's diary and maps. Nobody would find King Senkhet's tomb again. The King and his treasure would rest safe from the eyes of the curious and the profane (like that heretic young Whisker). The tomb would remain undisturbed. Nothing good ever came from disturbing tombs.

I think we were lucky to be honest. I thought we were attracting attention to ourselves by all voting for a lynching in the first round, but Eli then decided that some of the guardians must have voted for a no lynching. (Personally, I would have agreed with him if I hadn't known better.) Also, we were fortunate to kill off the detective in the first round.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Lieutenant Madoc threw off his heavy jacket; the brilliant white robes of a Guardian shone in the moonlight, his gold bracer catching the glint of a distant fire.

Tonight. The final victory of the Guardians is at hand!

The contingent of men loyal to him met him outside of the camp. Some of them were veterans of the Great War with grudges to settle against the profligacy of their captain, while others were simply seeking the wealth hidden in the tomb. Madoc, of course, had no patience for those who would defile what they had been entrusted to guard; happily, the poison that now ran through their veins wouldn't be taking effect for a few more hours . . .

The Captain was already dead; the expression on his face was remarkably similar to that of Lord Whiskers—a sudden shock at seeing a figure from the ancient days come to life, aiming a very deadly longbow arrow straight at his chest. The other officers had met similar fates; Dai was quite effective with his crossbow, and Madoc wasn't sure he really wanted to know what Seth and his knife had gotten up to.

Owain drew his sword, bringing his men to attention. A forward thrust into the air, and the company began its advance.

The Welshmen of Camp Sarastro never stood a chance. The attack came suddenly; by the time anyone realized what was happening, they had been mown down by machine gun fire. The Curse came quickly for them; the unearthly scarabs would deal with the bodies.

Moving quickly, Lieutenant Madoc ordered his men to spread out and deal with the camp followers who were attempting to flee to safety, leaving only a small platoon behind in the camp to mop up. He had complete faith in his men; try as they might, the Curse of Senkhet would be fulfilled.

Owain remembered the oath his father and grandfather had made him take as a youth. Protecting the pharaoh, in both life and in death, had been the solemn duty of his ancestors for uncounted generations. Lord Whiskers knew exactly what the Curse was; anyone who had seen the entrance to the tomb would be struck by the statues of powerful warriors in white and gold, dedicated to destroying any who might disturb their master. Now, it was time for the Curse to be fulfilled.

None were to be left alive who might disturb the pharaoh's tomb.

None.

An explosion from the camp knocked some of his men to the ground; Lieutenant Madoc was glad to see that the explosives he had placed had gone off as planned. Striding forward through the carnage, he at last reached the tea tent, the swarms of scarab beetles parting before him.

Already, Seth was making an offer of the Sacred Catnip to the worthy enemies of the Guardians. The sound of gunfire continued to echo through the valley as his men finished their grim work.

Owain drew and cocked his pistol. Even if they wouldn't take the Catnip (trust me, ladies, Take The Catnip!), Lieutenant Madoc had some sympathy and honor. Though his oaths forbade any who opposed him to be left alive, they didn't say anything about sparing his victims the jackals . . .

--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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(Side note: the above posts are greatly enhanced by the "Danse Bacchanale" from Samson et Delilah)

We made a few tactical errors early on that paid off amazingly well—we weren't planning on voting as a bloc in the first round, but, once we did, we pretty well went with the "look at people who didn't vote to lynch!" strategy.
And it worked.
For much of the rest of the game, our basic strategy (or at least mine, as a Guardian) was to keep people from noticing us by pitting parts of the camp against one another. Rose, you should have never tried to save Eli; he was far too useful as a distraction for us to lynch him. We/I also had great fun trying to pit Eli against Arséne against Andrew; throw in one little aspersion against one of them, and watch the fur fly!
It was a struck of luck, really, that I was able to rase the specter of the defector at exactly the time when it could be used to keep the dwindling numbers of innocents divided. It wasn't until people started to habitually disbelieve Eli that we killed him; if he wasn't dividing the camp any longer, he was useless to us.
Well. It was great fun killing you all off. Now then, ladies, I believe there's some catnip for you; I would truly hate for our moonlit walks to be at an end, Miss Rose.

--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857

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[hover, hover]

Machine guns mowing down people ... [Eek!]
And there I was thinking WE rather enjoyed being mafia killers at the time [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
I would truly hate for our moonlit walks to be at an end, Miss Rose.

Aaaaah! [Mad] Murderer! Traitor! Liar! This takes the biscuit! Woman snatcher! [Mad]
Dear Divine Kittie-Cat, can I have a return ticket to re-incarnation, please? Five minutes will suffice.


[hover, hover]

--------------------
A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509

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Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Never! Never will I betray the memory of my innocent comrades by eating your accursed catnip! Come along Miss Smudgeson. Stand aside Mr Seth, Lieutenant Madoc.

Rose tucked Miss Smudgeson's hand under her arm and stalked out of the tent, into the desert where the jackals waited. A deadly scorpion scuttled towards the women. The rest is silence.

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Truth

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Pity, the Guardians are a bit male dominated for a group with eternal membership.

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Played like a violin string. [Frown]  

I would be interested to know if any of our dead comrades pegged any of the Guardians after your death.  I regretfully note that Eli suspected Madoc, but I didn't go along with him then.  And El Greco nominated Seth, but I'm not sure if that was anything more than random luck.

Strategy

Everything I thought I knew about how to detect Mafia has been shattered.  The Guardians played a blunt strategy:  first to nominate, all voting for lynching first round.  So much for the idea that Mafia would use evasive tactics.  Think Mafia will be talkative (Madoc)?  There were Arsène, Eli, and me being equally talkative.  Think Mafia will be quiet (Seth)?  There were Smudgie and Papagena being even quieter.  Think Mafia will throw suspicion on Masons (Madoc suggesting the Defector)?  There was Arsène opposing Eli from the start.

Conclusions about other players:  we'll never be able to detect Banner Lady or El Greco as Mafia:  too erratic.  We'll never be able to detect CuppaT or Smudgie: they're naturally quiet.  Sylvander has a natural excuse as well for being quiet next round: "look at how much I spoke last time, and how it turned out." Eliab also will be hard to detect as a Mafia member: he wasn't 100% right this time, so misreasonings he may make as a Mafia member can't necessarily be chalked up to deliberate deception.

Rules

I liked that there was no limit on the number of nominations.  (The game CuppaT linked to had a limit, and it allowed us Mafia to trap the Citizens at the end).

I would prefer for the roles in play to be stated explicitly.  We wasted a lot of time on the Defector chimera, and I think it played a large part in the Citizens' loss.  On the other hand, I'm OK with not knowing the numbers of each role.

I liked defense running concurrently with nominations, but I'd like for defense and wrangling to be allowed to continue into the voting phase.  If someone is nominated late, as it stands now they don't have much of a chance for defense.

I'm unsure about not declaring victory until the Guardians have an absolute majority.  Seems to me once the Guardians are equal to the Citizens, they're guaranteed a win.  They can hang any daytime vote, and, even if there's a doctor, they're bound to hit on the doctor eventually and then they'll have the absolute majority.  On the other hand, playing to parity instead of absolute majority would have deprived me of my two successes (defending Miss Smudgeson and identifying Lieutenant Madoc), useless as they may have been.  And, in the game linked to by CuppaT, Teufelchen let us have that last round to play to absolute majority, solely for the purpose of messing with our victim's minds [Two face] .  So I guess this is more of a mathematical comment than a firm preference for a rule change.

Next...

Thank you very much to la vie en rouge for running the game, to our Circus hosts for reading the whole thing, to all the Citizens for your valiant efforts to stamp out evil, and to the Guardians for being excellent opponents.

Hosts, can we have another round?  Players, anyone care to run it?  I'd rather play, but I'm willing to run it if needed.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
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Indeed, praise is due to the great cat in the sky for an enjoyable game

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Dafyd
Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Thank you very much to la vie en rouge for running the game

Thirded.
And, indeed, thank you to everyone for taking part in the game.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
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What a fantastic game. Well played - indeed flawlessly played - the Guardians!

I'm still unsure whether sacrificing McBride on day 2 was a sound move (yes, it was a sacrifice - I never thought he was guilty). It made sense on the figures to clear two innocents, and it worked as a controversy-generator (I had nothing on day 1 and we badly needed something to make people react if we were going to get any clues at all), but mostly I suggested it because it was in character for Eli to see everything as a transaction. And it backfired terribly by provoking Banner Lady's accusation of me - which essentially lost us the game. Mea culpa, to a large degree.

I was absolutely convinced that she was guilty when she did that (because, seriously, what the fuck would an innocent person be thinking of, to nominate a known mason?), and that screw up destroyed all cohesion amongst the innocents.

Well played to AristonAstuanax at that point for some magnificent stirring - although I knew you were guilty immediately Banner Lady was innocent (one thing I can do is spot a stirrer). But, foolishly, I thought that Slyvander (who picked up on what seemed to me a clearly insane nomination) was a better chance.

Fletcher christian I was always a bit suspicious of, but there were always more plausible candidates. Dafyd had me completely fooled throughout. I think that even if we had lynched Madoc on Day 4, that being the first clear clue the Guardians let slip, we'd never have come around to suspecting Dai.

A thoroughly deserved win.


Rules

I think that having a combined Defence/Nomination phase, no talking at night, and a (not especially enforced or observed) 'get on and vote' policy during voting all help the mob - not that they needed it here. The citizens only win by people talking, and any restriction on talking limits the opportunities for the guilty to give themselves away.

Compulsory voting and absolute majorities to lynch worked well (they don't always if there are slow players - which didn't apply here). Unlimited nominations are definitely right.

Thanks to vie for running the game. I'll now always think of you as the Red Cat Goddess.


If we have enough people interested in a second game, I'd quite like to try running one. But I'll await confirmation from the hosts on that.

[ 30. November 2010, 15:31: Message edited by: Eliab ]

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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CuppaT
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For my part, I suspected AR especially. More than that, I knew she was a Guardian. She acted just like the game before. And when she Aaaarghed me, like I did before when she won, well, I just grrrred in my heart. I swear, you just can't be right even most of the time.

The other one I was sure about after demise was Madoc. He and Rose, I thought, were in cahoots on purpose, in view and behind the scenes. It would have been a fairly good strategy because it goes against expectations.

Then again, psychology does not seem to work well for any of us.

I acted like a cat. 'Tis my only defense. And I really liked Leetle Masha's link!

Could we wait perhaps until after Christmas for a new game? It does rather take over one's life, you know. I am not on the Ship half so much as at Mafia time. During some of the suspenseful parts I was checking quite frequently. And those Nights were very long indeed. My whole family was involved with this game, and it was a subject at the greater family Thanksgiving time, too.

I like this style of game, but another fun one, too, was the year Mafia was one person who killed off people one at a time when they posted on another thread. As I happened to be the killer and was never suspected till the end, it was fun. But again, it did require a lot of time. Because of the rules, though, I posted then more than ever.

Good Game!
CuppaT

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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony

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Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
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I also liked the compulsory voting rule.

[Big Grin] I take it as a compliment that CuppaT thinks I played this time (Citizen) just as I did last time (Mafia). It means my camouflage-when-Mafia skills are in good order [Snigger] (not, though, that they're of any use to me when spotting other Mafia, alas).

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
Dafyd had me completely fooled throughout. I think that even if we had lynched Madoc on Day 4, that being the first clear clue the Guardians let slip, we'd never have come around to suspecting Dai.

Autenreith Road did cast suspicion on me. I don't know how thoroughly I convinced her by becoming talkative, but I ducked any nominations.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Autenrieth Road

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Alas, you convinced me completely, and by precisely the way I worried about: by voicing the reason for my suspicion, I give the Mafia the tool for knowing what would alleviate it. But everything you said was so darn believable, even including that you'd been more talkative than I'd initially noticed, and your description of your initial misconceptions that had kept you from saying anything, and your careful segmenting of the suspects into groups. For all I know, those were your real initial misconceptions.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

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That was a very interesting game; and I have a confession to make. Eli, you are so damn clever, all I wanted to achieve was to snip your strings so that you weren't running the whole show. Of course, I snipped my own in the process! No wonder I looked guilty.

But I agree that one person being able to be given two roles does muddy the waters rather a lot. What do others think of the Red Cat Goddess's innovation there?

I don't mind not knowing how many mafia there are; but did multiple role giving mess things a bit too much for the citizens to have any chance?

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313

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quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
But I agree that one person being able to be given two roles does muddy the waters rather a lot. What do others think of the Red Cat Goddess's innovation there?

I don't mind not knowing how many mafia there are; but did multiple role giving mess things a bit too much for the citizens to have any chance?

I don't think it matters. My observation from the previous games is that one can't use reason to deduce who's mafia and who isn't. One could make plausible assumptions about who is guilty and who is innocent, and one could make eloquent arguments that sound logical, but those arguments won't actually be dictated by pure reason.

So, since you can't know who is who, you might as well vote at random. And the fact that you can't know who is who, is the reason that led me to make my character rather colorful. Since we can't win based on reason, we might as well enjoy it and hope that luck will be with our side.

Having a player that could turn to the Dark Side made things a bit more colorful, and it perplexed those who believe that there can be drawn logical conclusions based on the players' behavior, but it didn't affect players that don't believe that.

The way things evolved, I could swear Eli was a criminal mastermind, because such bad luck (and this is an interesting choice of word, since Eliab's points were very plausible) seemed very unlikely. Yet he was whiter than snow.

I had a hunch about Seth, but hunches usually don't mean much. And even when I was right, I had to vote against someone other than the Seth I had nominated, if I wanted my vote to have any meaningful result, because of the influence some other players had on the rest.

Lt. Madoc and Dai Mortal, for some reason, confused my radars completely, so I preferred to ignore them when I made my calculations.

But generally speaking, I knew the mafia could easily win unless they made big mistakes. I was a bit surprised by the bad record we managed to get.

When the hostess notified me that I was going to be a citizen, I went [Waterworks]

So, no I don't think it mattered much, and I'll be delighted to see even more novelties next time the game is on.

[ 30. November 2010, 20:01: Message edited by: El Greco ]

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Adam.

Like as the
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Good game, all. Thanks, vie, for running it! I enjoyed it even though I died...

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
For all I know, those were your real initial misconceptions.

They were my real initial misconceptions. For that matter, I think my analysis was genuinely how I'd have been thinking if I'd been innocent.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Sylvander
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Big thank you to l.v.e.r. for running the game! I enjoyed it muchly and spent far more time on the Ship than usual.
And congratulations to Dai, Seth and Madoc who played a perfect game!
The three Guardians all registered as inconspicuous on my radar (even though I once felt Dai was agreeing with me in a funny way) - but so did some of the quieter innocents.

Unlike the IRL version of the game there is nothing to be gained by keeping quiet and observing players talking (blushing when they lie - always gives me away [Hot and Hormonal] )

As for lynching a known mason - it was a mistake partly brought on by the unclarity of the rules (double roles are not conducive imo). The more roles there are the more complicated the rules become and the more likely one is to omit necessary clarifications at the start (e.g. what happens if Mafia hit a veteran protected by the doctor - that is important info for the doctor and for Mafia and may not easily be imparted later without disclosing additional information). When I occasionally test-play games with game authors they usually proceed by starting with a simple version and step by step complicating the rules rather than the other way round. It is quite difficult. (And don't take it as personal criticism, L.v.e.r. - just shsring thoughts for future games).

Forgive me, but I still do not undertand your behaviour, Eli - your arguments seem to me erratic and illogically jumping to far-reaching conclusions even now that it made me switch positions and assume a mason-defector - a folly. This issue took much of our attention and killed a known mason.

I'd be curious to know on what bases the Guardians decided whom to kill by night.
And whether you co-ordinated your daytime voting or left it to individual preference.

And yes, I am certainly going to talk less next time. I don't think I even once publicly suspected, let alone nominated a Guardian, so there was not much useful thinking from the only Frog in the camp.

Posts: 1589 | From: Berlin | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
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Chronicles of the All-Seeing Red Cat Goddess / Post-mortem:

The Guardians of Senkhet were AristonAstuanax, fletcher christian and Dafyd.

Herrick was Hercule Poirot.

Autenrieth Road was the doctor.

Eliab, Hart and Smudgie were masons. Hart was additionally the miller.

Everyone else was a standard issue citizen.

*I thought at least half of you should be citizens – I thought it was interesting that you spent so long discussing roles that I hadn’t allocated, because you took for granted the ones that you knew were there. Three of you were masons, but you kind of forgot that this wasn’t a given. The fact that there were masons in the camp (and also a miller, who I guess most of you didn’t think I’d be cruel enough to give out), meant that other roles were numerically less likely. I was hoping for some interesting results from the mason-miller, a player who some of you definitely knew to be innocent and someone else would believe to be definitely guilty, but in the end the early departure of Hercule Poirot meant that this didn’t play out. Instead it left you all pondering the possibility of dual roles, which I hadn’t been thinking of (Teufelchen had already done this in the mediaeval game).*

The first night saw the assassination of Archie Whisker, a non-playing character I had invented for this specific purpose (in my mighty spreadsheet, I had his role down as “corpse” [Two face] ) I think we all seem to agree that getting done in before you’ve had any chance to play is a bit rubbish so this seemed like the fairest thing to me.

In a departure from the way this game is most commonly played around here, the mafia played an aggressive strategy from the start, which worked out well for them. The first nomination, for Rose Autenrieth, came from the mob, and then AR decided to make a second one, feeling a bit lonely in the dock all on her own. The mob then tried to push for a lynching, and in what was apparently a rather unexpected move, all voted in favour of lynching Professor McBride. This means that Eliab’s plan to look among the no-lynching voters wasn’t a bad idea in itself, but it was unfortunately wrong, and it suited the Guardians to play along with it. The rest of you were less certain about lynching so early and no one got lynched. (At this point, I found out – as Sylvander’s proxy – that he was playing a rather idiosyncratic strategy all of his own, which he can tell you about himself, if he wants to…)

On the second night, Herrick found out that Professor McBride was innocent, before returning to his tent and promptly getting murdered, ensuring that the citizens would receive no more detectivey information. I’m sure the mob will set me straight if I’m wrong about this, but so early in the game I suspect this was more luck than judgment. [Biased] At this point, Eli Abrahams decided that McBride should swing (ironically the only person Hercule Poirot had found innocent), the mafia tried a nomination of their own, and Arsène Beauregard tried to string up Eli Abrahams just for kicks. This brought the masons out of the woodwork. The vote was a landslide and McBride bought the farm.

Next night, the imam got it (Miss Rose was once again staked outside Eli’s tent), and revealed the presence of the masons for certain. There was a veritable flurry of nominations, but in the end the vote was another landslide, with even the condemned woman (Lady Bernadine, whose ear had been poisoned by Lt Madoc’s suggestion that Eli was a defector) voting for her own execution.

Moving onwards and upwards, the Guardians next proved their hatred of moustaches by bumping off Tavish McCallum, while Rose was once again guarding Eli. Suspicions abounded, Miss Smudge wanted to know why Andrew hated the masons so much, Arsène carried on suspecting Papagena, which led to Eli suspecting Arsène, and Andrew was right about Seth. Unfortunately no one else believed him and he got lynched.

The following night, the Guardians did away with Eli – ironically the first time that the doctor hadn’t been protecting him. AR was looking out for Smudgie instead (at least securing the supply of hot tea would be maintained). In the following nominations, only innocents were nominated, and the hieroglyphics were effectively on the wall.

Nonetheless, the following night, a little honour was saved (or the agony was prolonged, depending on how you look at it) when Rose rescued Miss Smudge from the clutches of the mob. Since the rules state that the mafia must outnumber the surviving citizens to win the game (there were now 3 of each), I decided to make them wait to do the victory dance. Lynching Arsène finally pushed them over the line.

Moderating was an interesting experience for me – knowing the whole truth and looking at my screen yelling “you’re wrong wrong wrongity WRONG!!” Hope you enjoyed it, anyway. And well played by a very canny mob.

(If someone wants to start a new game, the Red Cat would like to play)

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Amorya

Ship's tame galoot
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I've been playing a lot of Werewolf lately, both in real life and on another forum. (It's the same game but with a werewolf theme.) I would be up for moderating one, if people would like. Alternatively, if someone else wants to, I'll join in the next [Smile]

Amorya

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
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I was thinking about hosting a game even before we got started with this one; however, it does seem like a good idea to wait until the new year-after Christmas and End Of Term stuff is over.
And yes, taking down Hercule was more than just dumb luck-we thought that he would soon be on to us and had good ideas. Best to take him out early, before anyone starts believing them.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Autenrieth Road

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But how on earth did you suspect Herrick of being Poirot, in just one round?

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
But how on earth did you suspect Herrick of being Poirot, in just one round?

AristonAstuanax may correct me, but I don't think we thought he was the detective. Rather, he was clever enough to be dangerous and was keeping quiet. The other person we thought about was Papagena, also keeping quiet.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Autenrieth Road

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Ah. Rereading what AristonAstuanax said I see that now.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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For the record, anyone is welcome to host a new game whenever they want (although it's probably best to only have one going at once [Biased] ) It will be best to start a new thread though, both for tidiness and publicity.

iF
Circus host

--------------------
"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
For the record, anyone is welcome to host a new game whenever they want

In which case...

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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But please feel free to continue discussing this game on this thread.

--------------------
"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
The mob then tried to push for a lynching, and in what was apparently a rather unexpected move, all voted in favour of lynching Professor McBride. This means that Eliab’s plan to look among the no-lynching voters wasn’t a bad idea in itself, but it was unfortunately wrong, and it suited the Guardians to play along with it.

My mistake, then.

I have never understood why people so often vote for 'no lynching' on day 1. Essentially, it's a vote to decline the first move and start the real game one player down. Why? The town needs to lynch to win, and gets so few chances to do that, that passing one up seems to me to be obviously bad.

Whereas I do see a good reason for the Mafia to join in with a mistaken consensus not to lynch - it's inconspicuous, and the Mafia don't need to lynch to win anyway.

But ( [brick wall] ) I've played often enough to know that whatever I think of the strategy, loads of citizens will always abstain on the first day - so it was an unsafe assumption. Obviously.


One question: why did the Guardians even try for a kill on the last night? They were safe from lynching, and Dafyd had obviously worked out that with three Guardians left, the only thing that could possibly stop them was a miraculous doctor/veteren combo that night (or possibly a doctor/vigilante combo the next time with no lynching) - because he said so on the thread. Was it that you thought that Smudgie, as a Mason, wasn't going to be a veteren as well?

--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
One question: why did the Guardians even try for a kill on the last night? They were safe from lynching, and Dafyd had obviously worked out that with three Guardians left, the only thing that could possibly stop them was a miraculous doctor/veteren combo that night - because he said so on the thread. Was it that you thought that Smudgie, as a Mason, wasn't going to be a veteren as well?

We didn't know that the citizens were going to try to vote anyone off. (If we hadn't tried to kill anyone that would have been a clear signal that voting for someone wouldn't work. Although, now I think of it, nobody apart from us would have been able to tell that it wasn't the Doctor being clever.) Also, we wanted to get it over and done with. Also, we were the guardians. Killing someone in the night is what we do.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged



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