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Source: (consider it) Thread: Circus: Mafia - Over by Christmas
Adam.

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# 4991

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I'll end her. Hodge.

--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
CuppaT
Shipmate
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Skip a couple hours and what do you get? Missing all the fun of it, but I'll go with Hodge, too.

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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony

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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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A decision may have been reached, but we still have three voters (Conte Leo di Leonato,
Agnés Machant, Cpt. Slackbladder) who need to express their approval or disapproval of that decision before the victim's role is revealed.

Once we have those votes, Lavinia can post a death scene.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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leonato
Shipmate
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The Conte has been away celebrating the feast of St Eric (a very obscure saint, but with a really lavish festival in his home village) and has had no time to consider the current nominations. With nothing to go on he suggests no lynching even though he realises it will do no good.

[That is, I haven't had any internet access over the new year, sorry]

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leonato... Much Ado

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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
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It was a long night, with the temperature steadily dropping. Down in the bar, the Canadians were talking about the latest orders from General Byng, who seemed to be amassing troops around Vimy to the south. The Belgians were wondering when the Greeks would join up. And the Australians were toasting their capture and death of Prince Frederick Charles of Prussia and singing ever more bawdy verses of Hinky Dinky Parlez Vous.

Finally Battista called time and shooed them out the door. Maundy Thursday, Ypres, 1917 was heralded in by several drunken diggers weaving their way across the frozen ground of the main street and singing:

We're shelled on the left and we're shelled on the right,
We're bombed all the day and we're bombed all the night,
And if something don't happen and that pretty soon
There'll be nobody left in the bloody platoon
Dinky di Dinky di
There'll be nobody left in the bloody platoon


Battista yawned, poured himself a strong nightcap, and hoped that he wouldn't get woken up anytime soon by close bombardment.

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

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Eliab
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quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
It was a long night...

It's a long evening, certainly. We've yet to have nightfall as we don't have all the votes yet.

I don't really want to hold up the game for a couple of votes that don't affect the result, but on the other hand, compulsory voting has (IMAO) generally been good for gameplay, and the principle that everyone should express an opinion before finding out who was lynched is a sound one.

So I propose the following: this time around I'll close the vote at noon tomorrow, no matter what. In future, I'll hold polls open for around 24 hours after a decision has been reached (provided that the poll was open for at least some week-day time). Anyone who TWICE fails to vote before polls close obviously has the breeze vertical and will not be able to take any action on the following night or make any nomination on the following day. Fair?

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Autenrieth Road

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"the breeze vertical"?

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
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OH BUGGER STOP

[OOC: it's probably for the best - I was having a hard time getting on line enough to play properly. Posting this now for the same reason.]

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Eliab
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
"the breeze vertical"?

A First World War-ism: A person temporarily incapactitated by nervous terror is said to have "the wind up", hence, breeze vertical.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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Despite being more than a little concerned that the overwhelming nature of the vote indicates that Hodge may indeed be innocent, and although it makes no difference, Cpt Slackbladder returns from leave to cast his vote according to his gut instinct for Lavinia Hodge

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Eliab
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Night falls.


Don't drink too much tonight - they'll be no one to dispense hangover remedies tomorrow, since Lavinia Hodge was the Nurse.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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CuppaT
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Jeepers! I thought the Nurse was the nurse!

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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony

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Autenrieth Road

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From here:
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Nurse Rhoda Autenrieth [...] wasn't the head nurse, able to keep even the most badly wounded soldiers alive for an extra day of life. No, she was just an average civilian who had joined the Red Cross

No, just a nurse, not The Nurse.

I can't believe it. I was so sure she was the Traitor. That's what comes of getting convinced by something. Back to doubtful mode.

And on the same day we've lost General Erin Etheredge. [Waterworks] [Votive]

[eta: adding prayers to tears.]

[ 04. January 2011, 14:04: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
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"Mon Dieu! But this investigation is going from bad to worse!" exclaimed Battista. "And where has Agnes got to? I do hope she has not run away, because the chickens will miss her."

So, Miss Hodge was secretly in the Red Cross. This is very sad for those of us left. I think a little medicinal brandy is called for while we contemplate who might be making this war an even more unhealthy place to be than necessary.

It is interesting to me that both Cookie Hearte and Nurse Rhoda have voted the same way throughout; twice for Colonel Sylvain and now for Miss Hodge, with Hearte making the decisive vote. Then again it is equally interesting that Corporal Marley and Miss Bradshaw have voted for all three innocents. And is there anything to be concerned about when Conte Leo and Miss Agnes always seem to hang around until last to vote?

Battista poured himself another brandy and decided it was all too hard. Night had fallen, and it was time for bed.

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

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Sylvander
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LOL. We have an uncanny ability to lynch the wrong people [Smile] .
Nurse, huh? Maybe that's why she was so over-confident on day one, taking one wee drappie from the chloroforme bottle too many.
Let's have another guess tomorrow. Night, night, don't let the mafia bite!

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A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509

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Eliab
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I've been asked about the time limits for night actions. I want to balance the objective of giving all players time for thought, debate and opportunity to post, with the objective of keeping things moving, so this is the rule:

You have at least 24 hours of week-day time to submit orders. I won't call ‘morning' before then unless I have everyone's orders.

If you have a main role (nurse, fanatic, traitor or conspirator) and I don't have your orders within that time, you get a indeterminate grace period, because I don't want to time out actions which are a crucial part of the game. But you don't get forever - if the night is dragging on, I have everyone else's orders, and you've had 24-hours-plus, then don't complain if I call time. I might post a deadline warning on the thread, but don't count on it.

If you have a supporting role with a night action, then you get the 24 hours. After that, I'll assume an order of "no action" unless I hear from you before morning is called, whenever that happens to be.

Anyone who needs more time at any point in the game, for real life issues, or to think about their actions, or to carry on discusions, should PM me. I don't mind holding a phase up if there's a reason to do so.

Orders for night actions are irrevocable. I might need to PM another player as a result of your orders, so once I get an instruction I will treat it as definite.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Jay-Emm
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Umm it's not good (yet anothe specialist).
Going back to the initial theory (after the voting)
That is the mafia being noisy in response to a threat.

The first was of an innocent (Didier) (by me)

The second we presume (via detective) was not part of the mafia group* (Sylvain) (by Adller)

The third (Amoya) was nominated by the same.

The fourth is a known innocent/innocent pairing

The fith (Slackbladder by Bournemouth) is the last by an unknown person (and so the only coverup)

The sixth (Laicatell) by a known innocent (the dead detective)

So in the coverup hypothesis that leaves Amorya & Bournemouth as the sole contenders. It re-opens the possibility we were on the opposite track
I.e (from your point of view) Marley and Adler

Or the possibility of the wider field (I'll look at the other 7 after H/G)

*I was wondering about the possibility of traitorism but he himself brought it up very promptly.

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Autenrieth Road

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Colonel de la Botte Trouée as the Traitor? Interesting idea. I was so convinced it was Officer Hodge (forgive me, Lavinia), that others had never occurred to me.

--------------------
Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
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So here are the facts as I understand them.
I've deleted my speculation as it wasn't going anywhere.

[Out of the game]
Lord Jarvis Fastolfe of Harrisford (JFH),
Detective Victim

Lt. Dai Lycatell (Dafyd)
Innocent Victim

Second Officer Lavinia Hodge
Innocent Expert Lynched (Nominated by Innoncent)

Lt. Alice Adler (Antisocial Alto)
Innocent Expert Lynched (Nominated by Battista)

Didier (AristonAstuanax)
Innocent Expert, Lynched (Nominated by me)

[Accusers of innocents]
Corporal Jacob Marley (Jay-Emm)
Accused an Innocent, voted for all innocents

Battista Lalonde (Banner Lady)
Accused an Innocent, voted for all innocents

Colonel Sylvain de la Botte Trouée (Sylvander),
Probably investigated, accused innocent, Nominated by innocent, then nominated by Hart

Lt. Hearte (Hart) Accused the investigated and innocent, voted for investigated

[Other accusers/accused]

Eliza (Amorya) Accused by Investigated, voted for all innocents

Sgt. Harry Bournemouth (Imaginary Friend), Nominated Pax, swinging voter (NTTPA)

Slack Bladder (Pax/Great Gumby)
Nominated by Bournemouth swinging voter (NTTPA)

[No actions]

Major Conte Leo di Leonato (leonato)
Voted for all innocents

Lt. Burt (CuppaT)
Swinging Voter (not that this proves anything)

Agnés Machant (Hennah)
Voted for all innocents

Nurse Rhoda Autenrieth (Autenrieth Road),
Voted for investigated

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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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DAY 4: “Are You a Victim to Optimism?”

As the sun rises, Archie Blackhouse, is already 12,000 feet in the air, passing north over the Messines Ridge, as his pilot veers right to cross the salient. Fuck, but it’s cold. Archie hates the ramshackle FE2b almost as much as he hates photo-reconnaissance. Even a month ago, he wouldn’t have said that, he’d just have been glad he wasn’t stuck on a Quirk or Harry Tate, but with more and more of those new Albatrosses in the air, the old FEs were looking clumsier by the day. Unless some new scout machines can make a difference the other way, it’s going to be a bloody April. Archie smiles in spite of the cold – there were rumours of the new Bristol Fighter reaching the front very soon, and a good chance that the squadron will be re-fitted with what is supposed to be the best two-seater to date.

There is a sudden flash of movement between two bands of cloud above, and Blackhouse curses at the unmistakeable flared tailplane of an Albatross moving up for an attack – and just what the hell is a Hun doing up here this early? Lt Hamilton turns to meet the opponent – the only sensible thing he can do in an FE. Blackhouse takes carefully aim as the dark shape turns, dips slightly, and dives straight at them. There is a brief rattle from the Lewis, and then nothing. Jammed! Archie beats frantically at the breech, trying to clear the blockage – but the EA has already gone past. The FE’s crew know the drill, they cannot hope to beat a modern tractor-engine scout in a turning fight, so Hamilton slams the machine into a steep dive, as Blackhouse twists in his seat and grabs the rear-mounted Lewis. As the German completes his turn, the two seater levels out, and it’s the job of Blackhouse (as P.B.O.) to stand up, his feet on the nacelle, point the gun over the top wing, over the pilot’s head, and, with his grip on the gun handles the only thing keeping him attached to the aircraft, shoot at the attacker. The Albatross dives, twin guns blazing, and Archie takes a deep breath and returns fire.

The FE2b shudders as bullets smack into the rear engine housing and jolt the broad pusher propeller, but the Albatross is already spewing black smoke and turning wing over wing as it falls. “And that’s eight!” Archie exclaims to himself. Eight victories in six months. Not bloody bad for an observer.

Then he looks down at Lt Hamilton. The pilot’s head is lolling foolishly to one side, and his flying goggles are full of blood. There is a sudden jerk as the control stick shakes manically, and the FE2’s nose goes straight down, almost flinging Blackhouse from his precarious position.

The reconnaissance machine takes four minutes to reach the ground. Fortunately for Archie, the first three minutes are fully occupied with the struggle to get into the pilot’s cockpit and discover that the controls have been completely shot away. He spends less than sixty seconds in truly hopeless terror.

The dawn reveals two other victims of the war: Lt Hearte and Colonel Sylvain de la Botte Trouée have been killed in the night. Lt Hearte was no more than he appeared to be – an Allied Soldier. Colonel Sylvain, for all that his pompous name suggests the equestrian class, had clearly spent at least some of his service getting his hands dirty “sent out in front with a fuse and a mine”, because in addition to being an Allied Soldier he was an Expert Sapper.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
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And nominations are now open.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857

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Sylvani had gone to bed with misgivings. Now that everybody knew he was innocent he had become a rare piece of solid knowledge, i.e. an asset rather than a nuisance. That bode badly for the coming night.
Restless from the fear and the wine he made his way out from his room to stagger towards the latrine. Not even a spacious ditch – just a couple of pails behind the last standing stable wall. One of the most disgusting things about war (apart from the fact he was afraid of explosives which is not conducive to being an allied expert sapper) were the general sanitary conditions. He expected his British colleagues didn't mind so much, what with having one bath a month at home. But he had higher standards. For centuries his family had been customers of Monsieur Malodoré Oignon & Fils whose perfumes and powders far surpassed all soap and water.
Therefore it was a gracious fate the nevre knew that just as he had found the place he wanted a large piece of shrapnel clean cut him off at the chest. Falling backward into the mud Le Colonel Sylvain de la Botte Trouée (or rather his lower end) kicked the bucket.
It would have been a consolation had he known that as a result when he was found a wee while later all five toes on his right boot were sticking out, just like in the family crest.
Mort pour la patrie his snow white grave stone would say – not a word of fear, latrines and his missing upper half.

Finis

[ 06. January 2011, 11:23: Message edited by: Sylvander ]

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A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509

Posts: 1589 | From: Berlin | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Adam.

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Hearte went to bed to dream of the high quality London tripe he had been so deprived of since this bloody war began. During the night, he began to feel queezy. He smelt gas, and not the kind those stupid beans the Americans insisted on him cooking caused, and promptly passed out and died.

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

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TWO more innocents dead? Battista groaned. It looks like one of us left on the list murdered Colonel Sylvain. The Colonel, being secretly the sapper, had targeted Hearte, so when he was killed the gas cannister exploded taking out the cook.

What a bloody, malodorous mess. So there are nine of us left. Two are probably conspirators, one a traitor, one an MP, one an aviation expert, one is in the special brigade and three of us left are simple souls trying to get on with our work.

Battista sighed as he opened the bar for the day. Everyone in this war was capable of murder, and he did not mind serving them in the least, provided they paid well. What he didn't like was having to do this without decent help. What had happened to Agnes?

As the first barflies tumbled down the steps, he uncorked some wine.

"We will toast le Colonel with French champagne, and Lt. Hearte with the sherry he so often liked to cook with (although I suspect not much of it went into the pot). I suggest you don't mix them, my friends, or your headaches will be worse than they are already. Now what will it be?"

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
TWO more innocents dead? Battista groaned. It looks like one of us left on the list murdered Colonel Sylvain. The Colonel, being secretly the sapper, had targeted Hearte, so when he was killed the gas cannister exploded taking out the cook.

Does the victim of either the Sapper or the Special Brigadier know what killed them? If so, then I read Lt. Hearte as being the victim of the Special Brigadier's gas canister (which goes off regardless), rather than the Sapper's bomb. But if not, then your reading is as good as any. Did le Colonel voice any suspicions of Hearte upthread, which would cause him (le Colonel) to defensively set his bomb for him (the Lieutenant)?

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

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Ah, yes, it is the special brigader who has the gas cannister, not the sapper. If so, then that means the special brigade person planted it for the cook, while the conspirators took out le colonel. The colonel may not have used his bomb at all.

And what that means is that now neither the sapper (may he rest in pieces) or the special brigade person can defend us against the conspirators in future. Mon dieu!

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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3 Mafia, 3 Specialists, 3 Soldiers.

Is there some way in which a revelation of roles can pin the mafia down to a dividable group?

If only one person claims each role then we have 3 known innocents, 3 mafia in 6. 3I-6(3M)

Trying to think this through, going with worst case (until last move when probabilities assessed).
We lynch first, assuming mafia scared of specials
3 Specials, 3 Innocents, 3 Mafia (Start)
3-2-3 (First lynching)
3-1-3
3-0-3 (We really suck)
Mafia accept night-time disablement for daytime win)

Again but with 1/2 as sucky villages
3-1-3
3-1-2 (if we pick at random 3/4 chance)
3-0-2 Victory villagers

More likely at that point (still trying for worst case)
3-1-2
2-1-2 (Mafia hit mp who misjudges)
50% chance of
2-0-2 (Mafia win)
or 2-1-1 (Village win or stalemate)

Or if the mafia go for Specialist (which makes sense - now individually labeled)
AIM-3-3
AIM-2-3 (we still suck)
either
IM-2-3 (Airman delays mafia)
40% chance of IM-1-3 Mafia win
20% chance of IM-1-2 IM-0-2 Mafia win
40% chance of IM-1-2 IM-1-1 Mafia win
or
AM-1-3 (Infantry man makes poor choice, mafia win)
or
AI-2-3 (As IM but without with an even clearer mafia win)

Hmm, so pretty much a loss unless we are lucky on the first round (which is 50-50), how does that compare to the alternative of a blind lynch? In any case views would be interesting.

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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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No it won't.
a) No correlation to loyalty
b) Misunderstood gasman.

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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does the victim of either the Sapper or the Special Brigadier know what killed them?

That looks like a rules question.

Someone killed by an Expert's gas or bomb attack will be told that they were killed by gas, or an explosion, as the case may be. They do not have to reflect this in their death scene, but they will be asked not to suggest any other cause of death.

A simple murder victim will be told that they have been murdered. Their death scene can describe any method of murder. This can include gas and bombs.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
3 Mafia, 3 Specialists, 3 Soldiers.

Hmm. Do we know there are 3 conspirators? It's most likely that we started with 2 and a single traitor, but I don't think that's a given (although very, very likely IMO), nor is it certain that the traitor has made contact with them. If conspirators and traitor still aren't known to each other (which I think is quite possible after only 3 nights, but I haven't done the maths yet), it has a bearing on the optimal strategy - that uncertainty could help us, as the conspirators might accidentally bump off the traitor, and the traitor might unknowingly vote to lynch a conspirator.

I'm not sure what this leaves as our best course of action, though - I'll sleep on it.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

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I have obviously had no clue whatever with either nominations or voting; so all my suspicions may be completely erroneous. But if Agnes does not turn up soon, and explain herself I shall nominate her simply for her absenteeism. Where has that girl gone? The cows do not like my rough hands on them at all.

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
No it won't.
a) No correlation to loyalty
b) Misunderstood gasman.

Corporal Marley, could you be a little less cryptic? I don't understand a word of this.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
No it won't.
a) No correlation to loyalty
b) Misunderstood gasman.

Corporal Marley, could you be a little less cryptic? I don't understand a word of this.
(it followed a long an contorted post summarised*)
Q: Can we exploit the specialist roles and the unique identification they provide?
A:(in first post) It seems to gain little more than a 50-50 chance, is this worth while?

(At this point I reread the rules again for the third time that hour but with a clear head and realised)
The premises are flawed.
a) We could have a mafia special investigator (or as [Banner Lady] points out a different number of mafia). In the theory we could tell that any group with it's theoretical number was innocent. In practice we can't.

b) I misremembered which powers were active, and overestimated the amount they could hold off a known mafia group (or even highly likely mafia group).

*Hence why I checked S-O-F this morning and am going to have to be quick out the door.

[ 07. January 2011, 06:52: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

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Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Thanks, now I understand.

After that first day's fit of nominations, we seem to be awfully circumspect about nominating. Which will save us from lynching innocents, but won't help us catch the conspirators.

Not that I'm stepping up with any great suspicions just yet!

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
CuppaT
Shipmate
# 10523

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Burt slaps on his brown helmet and his goggles, which he had kept in his duffel bag and walks around a bit. It's a risk, but Burt's well used to taking risks. He thrives on them, and he is so tired of being grounded. One more mission, assuming he is successful naturally, and he will be an ace, even young as he is.

[I figure I am about the safest person there is in this game, as long as you know who I am. Who of the mafia would want to lose 2 whole nights of consulting and deciding? More like 2 weeks IRL. The first night they could sort of anticipate together, but the second night, who knows what all they would be missing? And the innocents among us need to not lynch me and force me to choose someone to miss 2 nights.]

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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony

Posts: 919 | From: the edge of the Ozarks | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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Hmm still no nominations. Key thing is not to feel stupid if we lose.
I can rule out me (you can't but can rule yourselves out).
If cuppaT is lying this should be clear soon, if Eliab has been sneaky, c'est la vie. So that mostly rules her out.

So that brings us to a low but real chance even at random. I can't help but feel there ought to be some Monty Hall like trick we can play, but I can't find it.

So I think I'll nominate Harry (Imaginary Friend) as I'll be annoyed if it's him.

Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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"I'm not going to nominate anyone because I haven't a fucking clue which end is which right now" said Harry as he sat nursing a pint of weak pale lager in the bar. "In fact, I'll come right bloody clean and admit that it was me that gassed the lieutenant last night. When I heard that the nurse was innocent, I thought that his apparently strategic vote to lynch her was enough to make me suspicious. Add to that the fact that I thought I'd be fucking bumped off that night for surviving the lynch vote meant that I had to do something or risk taking my abilities to the grave with me.

"But I got it wrong, and for that I'm fucking sorry. Lynch me if you want - I realize my story might sound like a story invented to get me out of the noose - because you'd be entitled to your revenge. But until you all can decide what's what, I'm going to go back and think on what's been said by who and see if I can't come up with something that might save us from these Kraut-loving swinehunds."

With that, Harry got up and (leaving his beer unfinished) walked towards the door.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
If cuppaT is lying this should be clear soon, if Eliab has been sneaky, c'est la vie.

Not sneaky -- just as it's marked on the tin. He said that the supporting roles were "assigned amongst all players regardless of their other allegiances or abilities."

But it does make it harder to know what to make of someone's declaration of a supporting role. I'd been thinking it was to our advantage for people to declare their roles, but I'd forgotten that the conspirators could have roles too. Still, I think it's probably to our advantage for people to declare, because it gives us more information and we can try to gauge if the declaration sounds innocent or not.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

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Agnes you have been no help whatsoever of late. I am afraid I have to let you go: you are on your own now.

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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Are we done for nominations?

As it's the weekend I'll leave the Prosecution phase nominally open until Monday morning (whenever I'm at a computer at least 36 hours from now) since I would be allowing 24 hours week-day time for Defence anyway, but the accused (and others) are welcome to discuss their guilt or innocence now.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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"I've already said all I can to defend myself, so don't damn well hold things up on my account."

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
if Eliab has been sneaky

On this point, no. Roles were distributed entirely at random. Every player got two sets of die rolls, one to determine main role (Conspirator, Nurse, Traitor, Fanatic, ordinary Allied Soldier/Civilian), and one to determine supporting roles (the experts - Artillery, Aviation, Infantry, Military Police, Sapper, Special Brigade). The two sets of rolls were completely independent of each other. Any player, whatever else they are, might have a supporting role.

The role descriptions were written before they were assigned, and designed so that they would do something whether they fell to an innocent or guilty player. Some might have been better for one side or the other (what Conspirator would not have wanted to be the Artillerist?) but there was no bias to assign them that way. The whole point of the supporting roles is that they are no indictor of allegience whatever.


What conclusions you draw from other players' behaviour is up to you, but if you try to second-guess my intentions on the assignment of roles, my sneakiness doesn't enter into it. Blame the dice.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
"I've already said all I can to defend myself, so don't damn well hold things up on my account."

If, on Monday morning, I have a similar statement from anyone else who at that point has been accused, we'll go straight on to voting. Otherwise they get 24 hours of week-day time to make a defence (since not everyone is online at weekends).

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
if Eliab has been sneaky

On this point, no....
Sorry I didn't mean to impugn you, and definitely not to force you to reveal game mechanics (especially as you had made the key facts quite clear earlier).
Beside sneaky isn't necessarily bad, so long as we have a good story at the end and it's not deceitful.

[I'll delay further comments and praise till the game review and hindsight]

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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
if Eliab has been sneaky

On this point, no....
Sorry I didn't mean to impugn you, and definitely not to force you to reveal game mechanics (especially as you had made the key facts quite clear earlier).
It never occurred to me to take "sneaky" as in any way derogatory. I am a lawyer IRL, after all.

The game mechanics aren't secret, either, and they are important. Any argument or analysis which is based on a possible link between secondary roles and allegience will be flawed, because the premise is false. I don't mind one side or other losing because they screw up, but I don't want it to be because someone has misunderstood the game structure, when it is my job to make the set up clear.

[ 08. January 2011, 19:03: Message edited by: Eliab ]

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Hmmm, Sergeant Harry Bournemouth or Mademoiselle Agnés Machant? Harry has been (I think) a bit more talkative. His penultimate post, about being behind the gas attack, does have a ring of outraged innocence to me. Agnés missed the last vote completely; I would expect a Conspirator to be more engaged in the thread, but who knows? Maybe she's had an attack of RL.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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Prosecution phase ends. Defence phase begins.

If anyone has had an attack of RL, PM me, and I'll extend time. I'm not going to second-guess people, though. Unless I get such a request, I'll keep this phase short, since we had a nice long Prosecution phase. 24 hours.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Father Didier decided it was time for an apparition. He was truly shocked Miss Hodge was not only innocent, but a nurse, rather than the murderous scoundrel he was certain of . . .
So much for the knowledge of the Blessed.
And poor Sylvain de Comtisse de Boot (or whatever his name had been). To die like that? Almost as bad as being lynched before you even had a chance to properly live!
Time for a Saintly Blessing. Everyone likes beer, right? Well. Didier knew a thing or two about it, and, with his new Blessed Powers™, he could make what was once swill Divine.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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"Another thing to bear in mind is that if you believe me that I'm innocent and don't fucking lynch me, the conspirators are likely to kill me overnight so as to keep the number of people with known roles to a minimum. So you might consider voting for Agnés to test that idea.

"But now of course, me having said that, it does make it more likely that the bad guys would fuck with us all by leaving me alive to take the inevitable blame next time sodding round.

"Basically, I'm beginning to think we're pretty much in the shit because I'm not really sure that Agnés is dirty either. But I don't know who bloody is! If I did, I would have nominated someone my-bloody-self.

"So maybe we should go with 'no lynching' today and keep the number of us killed to a fucking minimum for once. That'd leave more of us for the fucking Krauts, at any rate. Ack, I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud: I've not bloody decided what I'm going to vote for yet. Anyone else got any other bright fucking ideas?"

--------------------
"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Sergeant Bournemouth, I have to disagree with you. The only way we have of winning is by lynching the conspirators, and the only way we have to lynch them is to vote for a lynching. So I cannot support your proposal of "no lynching."

At least that will make at least two of us voting to lynch Mademoiselle Machant. I don't have any more reason to think her guilty than to think you are, but (potential) innocents who are here to talk are more valuable than (potential) innocents who aren't (if that makes sense). And as I said, we must vote to lynch.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged



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