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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Royal Wedding Watching
ChippedChalice
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Here's a thread for those of us who care more about what the Archbishop of Canterbury will be wearing than what the bride's gown will look like.

Does anybody know what channels in the U.S. are most likely to broadcast the wedding WITHOUT any annoying commentary -- so that we can appreciate the choral music, etc. uninterrupted?

[ 29. September 2011, 07:37: Message edited by: Spike ]

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Ascension-ite
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I too care more about seeing the Liturgy at the Abbey than really what the bride will be wearing. I dread the uninformed chatter we will have to endure to watch this. I doubt many US anchors will have any idea what the CofE actually is, or who Rowan is in relation. Yes, they are that stupid.
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Chap
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quote:
Originally posted by ChippedChalice:
Here's a thread for those of us who care more about what the Archbishop of Canterbury will be wearing than what the bride's gown will look like.

Does anybody know what channels in the U.S. are most likely to broadcast the wedding WITHOUT any annoying commentary -- so that we can appreciate the choral music, etc. uninterrupted?

Rarely watching TV myself, I have only heard of BBCA telecasting it. I am sure it will be completely voiced over by them. What about a webcast - it seems there ought be at least one that will not include commentary.

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Chap

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

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Apparently YouTube will be streaming it live without commentary.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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ChippedChalice
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Thanks Amanda!
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MrMusicMan
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I would expect the folks on NBC to be well prepped about the CofE. Matt Lauer and Meredith Viera are pretty decent journalists. As for ol' Katie Couric on CBS, expect her to be lost. "You mean it's not a Catholic church?"
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Olaf
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I'm fairly sure Katie Couric is (was?) Episcopalian. I am likewise fairly sure that she will chatter relentlessly.
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MrMusicMan
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Just because she is something doesn't mean she knows anything.

I once ran into her on a tour of Rockerfeller Center, and she was complaining about the abundance of tour groups getting in the way that day to a colleague. Her language was not ready for prime time.

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TubaMirum
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Some of us are mighty curious about rumored music commissioned especially for the service.

Anybody know anything on that front? Who might composers be, what the pieces will be, etc.?

Inquiring minds are dying to know.

(BTW, what rite are they using? Or is that a stupid question....?)

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
I would expect the folks on NBC to be well prepped about the CofE. ...

The U.S. announcers made hash of the broadcast of Diana's funeral. They had no idea of what was going on or who was who or how to pronounce anything -- which didn't keep them from holding forth anyway. PBS aired the BBC broadcast; why any American chose to watch an American version was beyond me.

I'm also hoping that the wedding will be an opportunity for the world to see Anglicanism at its best. (Unfortunately, Diana's funeral was not. I don't remember as much about Charles' and Diana's wedding, though I did watch it.)

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Anglican_Brat
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Will the marriage service be from Common Worship or the 1662 Book of Common Prayer? Will it include a celebration of Holy Communion?

Those are the liturgical questions that interest me.

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Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known
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Will Canons be in scarlet and choir dress, or in copes? And how many bishops are expected?

I will watch the BBC World broadcast, although CNN is probably a good pick as well. I dread watching it on local TV because they (local networks)wouldn't know what to expect even after having strained their eyes reviewing footage from royal weddings past.

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Chapelhead

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
Will the marriage service be from Common Worship or the 1662 Book of Common Prayer? Will it include a celebration of Holy Communion?

Very likely to be1662/1928, and definitely no Holy Communion.

quote:
Originally posted by Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known:
Will Canons be in scarlet and choir dress, or in copes? And how many bishops are expected?

Choir dress, I'd have thought. There will be about 10 Bishops present (from various branches of the church) but most of these will be there purely as guests. The service will be conducted by the Dean of Westminster Abbey, the marriage ceremony by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the address given by the Bishop of London. A list of the religious types attending is:

  • Dean of Westminster Abbey, The Very Reverend John R Hall
  • The Bishop of London, the Right Honourable and Right Reverend Richard Chartres
  • The Most Reverend Gregorious, Archbishop of the Greek Archdiocese of Thysteira and Great Britain
  • The Archbishop of Canterbury and Mrs. Rowan Williams
  • The Archbishop of York and Mrs John Sentamu
  • Rabbi Anthony Bayfield
  • Mr Anil Bhanot
  • The Archbishop of Armagh, Cardinal Archbishop Sean Brady
  • Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church, The Most Reverend David Chillingworth
  • The Right Reverend John Christie, Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland
  • Mr Malcolm Deboo President, Zoroastrian Trust Funds of Europe
  • The Right Reverend Doctor Norman Hamilton
  • The Archbishop of Armagh, The Most Reverend Alan Edwin Harper
  • Monsignor Philip Kerr, The Convener, Action of Churches Together in Scotland
  • Commissioner Elizabeth Matear, Salvation Army
  • The Archbishop of Wales, The Most Reverend Doctor Barry Morgan
  • The Reverend Gareth Morgan Jones, President of the Free Church Council of Wales
  • Cardinal Cormac Murphy-Connor
  • The Archbishop of Westminster, The Most Reverend Vincent Nichols
  • Cardinal Keith Patrick O’Brien, Archbishop of St. Andrews and Edinburgh
  • Rabbi Alan Plancey
  • Imam Mohammad Raza
  • The Chief Rabbi (Lord Sacks)
  • The Venerable Bogoda Seelawimala, Acting Head Monk, The London Buddhist Vihara
  • Maulana Syed Raza Shabbarm, Muhammadi Trust
  • Mr Natubhai Shah, President, the Jain Academy
  • Dr Indarjit Singh, Director, Network Sikh Organisations (UK)
  • Canon Christopher Tuckwell
  • The Reverend Martin Turner

The Archbishops of Canterbury and York seem have been among the few who got a '+one' on their invitations. [Biased]

[ 26. April 2011, 05:42: Message edited by: Chapelhead ]

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known
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Thank you, Chapelhead! [Big Grin]

Yes, the CofE Archbishops got to bring their spouses, it appears. Privilege, perhaps?

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dj_ordinaire
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Is Mrs. Williams not herself in Holy Orders, or else a doctor or something?

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Helen-Eva
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quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Some of us are mighty curious about rumored music commissioned especially for the service.

Anybody know anything on that front? Who might composers be, what the pieces will be, etc.?

Inquiring minds are dying to know.


There was a delightful piece in Private Eye soon after the wedding date was announced saying that the organist of Westminster Abbey (James O'Donnell) woke up that morning with an inbox full of emails from hopeful composers just busting to write something. But I've heard nothing more. I actually met a choir parent at the weekend but he said his son had been sworn to secrecy about the music list and hadn't said anything.

[ 26. April 2011, 09:43: Message edited by: Helen-Eva ]

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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.

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+Chad

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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known:
Will Canons be in scarlet and choir dress, or in copes? And how many bishops are expected?

Choir dress, I'd have thought.
I would think it will be cassock, surplice and cope. I would be very surprised if they're not coped up.

Something like this.

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Chad (The + is silent)

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Chapelhead

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quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known:
Will Canons be in scarlet and choir dress, or in copes? And how many bishops are expected?

Choir dress, I'd have thought.
I would think it will be cassock, surplice and cope. I would be very surprised if they're not coped up.

Something like this.

I suppose it might depend on what, if anything, they are doing. Tne Dean will be coped, but will the other canons be involved - I've no idea?

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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+Chad

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They usually turn up in their posh frocks whether they're doing anything or not.

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Chad (The + is silent)

Where there is tea there is hope.

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earrings
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quote:
Is Mrs. Williams not herself in Holy Orders, or else a doctor or something?

Jane Willams is a theologian, but not herself ordained. She doesn't appear styled as Dr anywhere I've seen.
I do get a bit irritated, though I know it is "correct" at Mrs Rowan Williams and Mrs John Sentamu - these women have names!

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My blog musings on all sorts of stuff https://priscillavicar.wordpress.com/

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Chapelhead

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quote:
Originally posted by earrings:

I do get a bit irritated, though I know it is "correct" at Mrs Rowan Williams and Mrs John Sentamu - these women have names!

Of course they have names - one is Mrs Rowan Williams and the other is Mrs John Sentamu. [Biased]

On a similar line, unless Branda dishes out a dukedom or somesuch, I believe the bride will become Princess William of Wales. Which might give the tabloids a decision as to whether to call her Kate or Princess WoW.

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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earrings
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Chapelhead wrote
quote:
Of course they have names - one is Mrs Rowan Williams and the other is Mrs John Sentamu.
Chapelhead [Big Grin] It's just my general irritation at such matters - not aimed at anyone in particular.

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My blog musings on all sorts of stuff https://priscillavicar.wordpress.com/

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Low Treason
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The Abbey Chapter will be coped up to the eyeballs, you can depend on it. I suspect they wear copes even for popping round the corner to the off-licence..... [Big Grin]

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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.

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MrMusicMan
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The day comes that I'm ordained a clergyman in whatever denomination will put up with my antics, I'll definitely be wearing a cope to the liquor store -- just to cover my face so they don't know it's me!
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+Chad

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quote:
Originally posted by earrings:
Jane Willams is a theologian, but not herself ordained. She doesn't appear styled as Dr anywhere I've seen.

Jane Williams has a Doctorate and is styled as such on the staff list of S Paul's Theological Centre here.

[ 27. April 2011, 08:48: Message edited by: +Chad ]

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Chad (The + is silent)

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TubaMirum
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quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Some of us are mighty curious about rumored music commissioned especially for the service.

Anybody know anything on that front? Who might composers be, what the pieces will be, etc.?

Inquiring minds are dying to know.


There was a delightful piece in Private Eye soon after the wedding date was announced saying that the organist of Westminster Abbey (James O'Donnell) woke up that morning with an inbox full of emails from hopeful composers just busting to write something. But I've heard nothing more. I actually met a choir parent at the weekend but he said his son had been sworn to secrecy about the music list and hadn't said anything.
Thanks very much for this interesting tidbit!

[Biased]

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Spike

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So what do people think about the way the beautiful Abbey Church is to be decorated?

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

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+Chad

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I know thw Abbey is always looking for new ways to make money, but I never thought they'd turn it into a garden centre.

Will there be patio furniture on the Cosmati pavement?

[ 27. April 2011, 11:00: Message edited by: +Chad ]

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Chad (The + is silent)

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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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I predict that +Rowan will be wearing cope and mitre; I don't think he is a great one for wearing the rochet, rather he will wear a vestment similar to the alb with narrow sleeves, plain at the cuffs. Other robed Anglican bishops I predict will wear choir dress, as will other visiting robed Anglican clergy. Clergy of other denominations will robe according to custom, unless they choose to wear lounge suits.

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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I predict that +Rowan will be wearing cope and mitre; I don't think he is a great one for wearing the rochet, rather he will wear a vestment similar to the alb with narrow sleeves, plain at the cuffs. Other robed Anglican bishops I predict will wear choir dress, as will other visiting robed Anglican clergy. Clergy of other denominations will robe according to custom, unless they choose to wear lounge suits.

He wore a rochet for Charles and Camilla - I thought it was a bit of a snub for the remarriage of divorcees.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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TubaMirum
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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
So what do people think about the way the beautiful Abbey Church is to be decorated?

Hmmm. I'd thought I'd responded to this, but it seems not; perhaps I never clicked "Send."

I would think it would be beautiful with trees lining the aisle. Of course, I've never been to Westminster Abbey, so don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing in actuality....

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MrMusicMan
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I predict that +Rowan will be wearing cope and mitre; I don't think he is a great one for wearing the rochet, rather he will wear a vestment similar to the alb with narrow sleeves, plain at the cuffs. Other robed Anglican bishops I predict will wear choir dress, as will other visiting robed Anglican clergy. Clergy of other denominations will robe according to custom, unless they choose to wear lounge suits.

Hmmm... let's just say that the other Anglican clergy on the guest list vest instead of wear choir dress. Will Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor be allowed to wear his pallium? Will the Orthodox bishop wear his omophor? And will they be confused by all the virgers and their bowing and sheepdog-like behaviors?
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Ascension-ite
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I believe Rowan may have worn rochet for Charles and Camilla, as he was blessing a marriage rather than performing it, as they were married in a civil ceremony from what I remember, so perhaps different circumstances? As to the trees decorating the Abbey, it seems rather unnecessary as it's such a magnificent place as is. My own parish only allows flowers at the altar for weddings, as a wedding is a service of Christian worship, which I find proper and sensible.
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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I predict that +Rowan will be wearing cope and mitre; I don't think he is a great one for wearing the rochet, rather he will wear a vestment similar to the alb with narrow sleeves, plain at the cuffs. Other robed Anglican bishops I predict will wear choir dress, as will other visiting robed Anglican clergy. Clergy of other denominations will robe according to custom, unless they choose to wear lounge suits.

Hmmm... let's just say that the other Anglican clergy on the guest list vest instead of wear choir dress. Will Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor be allowed to wear his pallium? Will the Orthodox bishop wear his omophor? And will they be confused by all the virgers and their bowing and sheepdog-like behaviors?
And here I am, just wondering what the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland will wear.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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MrMusicMan
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Liturgical pomp and shenanigans fascinates me. To a fault, a fault, a most grievous fault.

I will be taking lots of notes. I hope.

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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I predict that +Rowan will be wearing cope and mitre; I don't think he is a great one for wearing the rochet, rather he will wear a vestment similar to the alb with narrow sleeves, plain at the cuffs. Other robed Anglican bishops I predict will wear choir dress, as will other visiting robed Anglican clergy. Clergy of other denominations will robe according to custom, unless they choose to wear lounge suits.

Hmmm... let's just say that the other Anglican clergy on the guest list vest instead of wear choir dress. Will Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor be allowed to wear his pallium? Will the Orthodox bishop wear his omophor? And will they be confused by all the virgers and their bowing and sheepdog-like behaviors?
And here I am, just wondering what the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland will wear.
I did say, "According to custom" and that is the all-impotant phrase.

It isn't a plain straightforward case of Once a pallium wearer, always a pallium wearer; rules of protocol make it more complicated than that - but that is a matter for another thread. With the serving and retired Archbishops of Westminster, I think they will be in choir dress; I am open to correction, but I don't think the pallium is part of choir dress.

With Scottish Presbyterian moderators, robes are de rigueur and I think will be present fully robed. A free church minister who is unaccustomed to robing, I don't think will be required to do so.

I cannot speak for Eastern Orthodox bishops and I will leave it to others more knowledgeable than me to post about that.

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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!

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MrMusicMan
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I would expect that the non-CofE affiliated clergy will simply dress in their choir dress/cassocks.

However, I have seen instances where non-affiliated clergy have vested for events. When Abp. Dolan was installed in Milwaukee some ten years ago, there were ELCA, and, I believe, LCMS clergy present who vested in albs, white stoles, and cinctures. Obviously they didn't take a liturgical role, but they still vested and were seated prominently in the nave.

And that's why I'm looking forward to the event!

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Oreophagite
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The Anthem is "This Is the Day" by Rutter.

Not my favorite composer, but he's entirely capable of writing something that will soon be sung by all choirs in Christendom, plus the occasional Reform Temple.

It might even be pretty good.

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Pigwidgeon

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All the details can be found here.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Alex Cockell

Ship’s penguin
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Full running order has been released...

as posted on the Telegraph

Oh - it's come to light that a few clangers could be dropped around the event - Kay Burley is fronting Sky's cover.

[ 28. April 2011, 12:40: Message edited by: Alex Cockell ]

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Charles Read
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# 3963

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Despite what the Telegraph says, this is not BCP - Series 1 I think (haven't time or inclination to check).

And if the theme of the wedding is 'Britishness' as the Telegraph alleges, then it's not a Christian wedding - but an examination of the service shows how wrong the Telegraph is. Don't these papers have any staff who are educated?

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TubaMirum
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# 8282

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quote:
Originally posted by Oreophagite:
The Anthem is "This Is the Day" by Rutter.

Not my favorite composer, but he's entirely capable of writing something that will soon be sung by all choirs in Christendom, plus the occasional Reform Temple.

It might even be pretty good.

It's odd about Rutter; he can be really, really good.

Or the other thing.....

(What about that "Ubi Caritas"? Is that well-known? I don't know anything about it....)

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+Chad

Staffordshire Lad
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I cannot speak for Eastern Orthodox bishops and I will leave it to others more knowledgeable than me to post about that.

Going on past form, I'm guessing that Archbishop Gregorios will dress in this manner.

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Chad (The + is silent)

Where there is tea there is hope.

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
Despite what the Telegraph says, this is not BCP - Series 1 I think (haven't time or inclination to check).


Looks like 1928/Series 1 to me
quote:

Don't these papers have any staff who are educated?

I think you already know the answer to that one!

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
So what do people think about the way the beautiful Abbey Church is to be decorated?

Couldn't they just have be-ribboned pew-ends like most other couples?!

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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
I would expect that the non-CofE affiliated clergy will simply dress in their choir dress/cassocks.

That's what I said, perhaps in a different way.

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Oreophagite
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# 10534

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"What about that "Ubi Caritas"?"

Mealor writes in a Whitacre-Lauridsen style. (Again, not my cup of tea, but much better than Jolly Rutterkin's writing in the "Shepherd's Pipe Carol" bubblegum style.

Some of Mealor's music has been recorded by the Con Anima Chamber Choir. One is called "Now Sleeps the Crimson Petal."

I look forward to hearing the new piece.

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TubaMirum
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# 8282

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quote:
Originally posted by Oreophagite:
"What about that "Ubi Caritas"?"

Mealor writes in a Whitacre-Lauridsen style. (Again, not my cup of tea, but much better than Jolly Rutterkin's writing in the "Shepherd's Pipe Carol" bubblegum style.

Some of Mealor's music has been recorded by the Con Anima Chamber Choir. One is called "Now Sleeps the Crimson Petal."

I look forward to hearing the new piece.

Yes, I see what you mean; I found his Locus Iste online. I like that style, myself.

If you don't favor the Parry "Procession of the bride" piece, I must add that I don't have any idea what your taste could be, though!

[Biased]

[ 28. April 2011, 17:03: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]

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Oreophagite
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# 10534

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My guess is that the Mealor will sound fabulous in the acoustic of the Abbey.

I adore Parry's "I Was Glad," and (of course) "Jerusalem." A bit less fond of "Blest Pair."

Walton's "Crown Imperial" is a solid choice.

I've been singing "Bread of Heaven" all morning - adding the obligatory "WANT-NO-MORE" etc.

Sartorially, my guess is that anyone with the right to be coped, will be coped. I wonder who will have the largest set of bands.

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Triple Tiara

Ship's Papabile
# 9556

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The RC clergy, I am reliably told, will be wearing abito piano, not choir dress.

Only reigning Metropolitan Archbishops wear the pallium and then only over Mass vestments.

The RC clergy are not taking any leading part in the service (prayers or readings or the like). They are simply in attendance in the congregation.

One other RC cleric who will be there is the Apostolic Nuncio, but as one of the Diplomatic Corps rather than as a church leader.

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