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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Royal Wedding Watching
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
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For a few minutes after I saw the music list, I said "Two of those hymns are to the same tune" but then I looked it up and found I was concatenating "Hydrofyl" and "Cwm Rhondda" (which are the tunes I know for those hymns, and two of my favorites). If this is one of those things where the commonly-used tune in the UK is different, please let me know.

I have about ten minutes here to decide when to set my alarm! I think I'll set it for the early hour and then decide if I want to stay up and watch. Start time is 3 am in my time zone! Nighty night!

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Mamacita

Lakefront liberal
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Amazing Grace, I've gathered from other discussions in Eccles that Blaerwern is the common tune for "Love Divine" in the UK. It is in some Protestant denominations in the US as well. Like you, I'm used to it being to Hyfrodol and prefer it that way.

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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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Chorister

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It said on the news that Mealor's Ubi Caritas was premiered by St Andrews University Choir last year.

Talking about St Andrews University Choirs, here's an enjoyable little titbit while you wait for the wedding to start. It's a tribute to Kate and William unusually linked to from the (usually much more dry and academic) university front page.

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+Chad

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quote:
Originally posted by Oreophagite:
Sartorially, my guess is that anyone with the right to be coped, will be coped.

If you put it in those terms, that probably limits it to the Dean and Chapter, and Minor Canons.

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Chad (The + is silent)

Where there is tea there is hope.

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Chapelhead

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Gosh, I was impressed with the way James Middleton read the lesson - as though it meant something, and wasn't just a text to get through. He largely seemed to be doing it from memory as well; he hardly seemed to look down at the words at all.

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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FatherRobLyons
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Am I the only person who finds it annoying when individuals wear a tab collar shirt (of a different color!) beneath a cassock? Both +Rowan and +Richard are wearing black shirts beneath colored cassocks.

I realize it may be more comfortable or convenient, but it doesn't look nearly as good as when one wears a proper collar beneath the cassock.

On the other hand, I found Bishop Chartes homily to be outstanding, and have really enjoyed the service. I have to leave now to get to work, though, so I will just have to catch the rest tonight when they recap it on the telly.

Rob+

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Mamacita

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Chapelhead, I agree. He had clearly put great effort into preparing.

I liked the Ubi Caritas.

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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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Bishops Finger
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IIRC, +Richard has a reputation as an excellent preacher.

Re copes - according to The Blessed Percy, copes can be legitimately worn by lay people e.g. Readers, chaunters, rulers of the choir etc., and not just by the clergy, chapter et al.

I haven't watched the service, but we did pray devoutly for God's blessing on William and Kate (and all the Royal Family) at Matins earlier this morning.

Ian J.

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Photo Geek
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Who were the young boys in front of the choir, wearing the red uniforns??

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Mamacita

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I believe they were a different choir, Photo Geek. There were two choirs present.

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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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Mamacita

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This is a serious question and not intended to be snarky, but, why in the final prayer before the blessing do they pray for the wife to be faithful, and not the husband as well? Also, what is the origin of the prayer -- has it been in the liturgy since forever, and is it said in normal marriages or just royal ones?

[ 29. April 2011, 11:25: Message edited by: Mamacita ]

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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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Knopwood
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Nice to see such a prominent place given to representatives of the Sisters of the Church - I wonder what the significance of that placement is.
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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Photo Geek:
Who were the young boys in front of the choir, wearing the red uniforns??

The choir of the Chapel Royal.

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Chapelhead

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quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
This is a serious question and not intended to be snarky, but, why in the final prayer before the blessing do they pray for the wife to be faithful, and not the husband as well? Also, what is the origin of the prayer -- has it been in the liturgy since forever, and is it said in normal marriages or just royal ones?

It's from BCP 1662, and also in the proposed 1928 book (which is largely what the service was). The 1549 book had something similar, but asked that the woman should be loving and amiable as Rachel, wise as Rebecca and and faithful and obedient as Sara.

[ 29. April 2011, 11:38: Message edited by: Chapelhead ]

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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Pre-cambrian
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Photo Geek:
Who were the young boys in front of the choir, wearing the red uniforns??

The choir of the Chapel Royal.
And amongst the men of the choir, the ones wearing the white bow ties were from the Chapel Royal and the others from the Abbey choir.

[ 29. April 2011, 11:51: Message edited by: Pre-cambrian ]

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Gosh, I was impressed with the way James Middleton read the lesson - as though it meant something, and wasn't just a text to get through. He largely seemed to be doing it from memory as well; he hardly seemed to look down at the words at all.

Me too. And I reckon he did memorize it mostly.

But for the life of me I couldn't figure out what the first reading was.

It sounded like Paul but it wasn't quite right.

An FB friend said Romans 12.

Looked it up. Indeed it was there, but heavily edited.

Most interesting. The rest of the service was so formal, why edit the reading?

Did anyone catch the second reading?

I was out having a smoke.

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Nice to see such a prominent place given to representatives of the Sisters of the Church - I wonder what the significance of that placement is.

I noticed this too. Who were they?

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a theological scrapbook

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Episcoterian
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Argh. I woke up exactly one hour too late to see anything.

If/when somebody knows of some place I can watch the whole ceremony unedited and not commented, could you please post it?

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Chapelhead

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
But for the life of me I couldn't figure out what the first reading was.

It sounded like Paul but it wasn't quite right.

An FB friend said Romans 12.

Looked it up. Indeed it was there, but heavily edited.

It was Romans 12:1-2, 9-18. It wasn't really edited, they just left out a bit in the middle about being different members but one body, which seems less relevant to a wedding.

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

Did anyone catch the second reading?

There wasn't one.

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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Autenrieth Road

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Oh, me too please. I got up in time, and then dozed off on the couch, waking up only occasionally to see a few small bits.

A tangent to the ecclesiantical regalia, but is Catherine's tiara a duchess' tiara, or just a tiara with no significance beyond beauty?

(cross-posted)

[ 29. April 2011, 12:35: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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Truth

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TubaMirum
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quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
Argh. I woke up exactly one hour too late to see anything.

If/when somebody knows of some place I can watch the whole ceremony unedited and not commented, could you please post it?

Well, The Royal Channel on YouTube showed the whole thing, and they say the video will be available again.

There was no commentary on the live feed.....

[ 29. April 2011, 12:38: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]

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Oreophagite
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I think the praecentor's bands were wider than his collar gap.

I did like the Ubi Caritas, in that acoustic and with those choirs. I think our choir would have intonation difficulty, and I think our basses might have trouble with the low notes. A D perhaps, or even a C.

The Rutter? Well. Back to his 1980's style.

The fanfare before the National Anthem was from the Coronation. I don't think the Coronation fanfares were ever published.

I loved the last stanza of Cwm Rhondda, and hope that it becomes available.

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TubaMirum
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(And as a matter of fact, a "rebroadcast" is starting right now....)
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TubaMirum
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quote:
Originally posted by Oreophagite:
The Rutter? Well. Back to his 1980's style.

I have to agree; really disappointing and not in any way memorable.

I did like the Parry thing sung while they were off signing the whatever - that was great!

And I loved the trees! Of course, I want to do this in my own parish, every week, so that probably explains it.....

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
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I enjoyed watching the service. Unfortunately the emphasis was on watching. Both my ears are blocked and I've gone deaf (hopefully only temporarily), so even with the sound turned to maximum I could barely hear any words or music. (My lip-reading skills came on leaps and bounds, though.)
Oh well, I expect I can catch up later on the music with youtube etc.
I could hear the trumpets, they sounded good.

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Gregory's Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:

A tangent to the ecclesiantical regalia, but is Catherine's tiara a duchess' tiara, or just a tiara with no significance beyond beauty?


I think they said it was made for the queen in 1936 and lent for the occasion. Do you think that counts as "something borrowed" or "something old"?
I agre with Chapelhead that James Middleton did the reading particularly well. Berkshire's only just up the road from me, do you think he could be persuaded to come and read the lesson at my church? [Big Grin]

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Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering.
There's a crack, a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in. L.Cohen

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
But for the life of me I couldn't figure out what the first reading was.

It sounded like Paul but it wasn't quite right.

An FB friend said Romans 12.

Looked it up. Indeed it was there, but heavily edited.

It was Romans 12:1-2, 9-18. It wasn't really edited, they just left out a bit in the middle about being different members but one body, which seems less relevant to a wedding.

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

Did anyone catch the second reading?

There wasn't one.

Thanks Chapelhead. [Smile]

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a theological scrapbook

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Japes

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Nice to see such a prominent place given to representatives of the Sisters of the Church - I wonder what the significance of that placement is.

I noticed this too. Who were they?
I can't comment on the placement, but one of the Sisters is Chaplain to the Abbey.(The Community of the Sisters of the Church are an Anglican Community)

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Blog may or may not be of any interest.

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+Chad

Staffordshire Lad
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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Nice to see such a prominent place given to representatives of the Sisters of the Church - I wonder what the significance of that placement is.

I noticed this too. Who were they?
I forget the name of their order, but they are part of the staff of the Abbey, I think serving as chaplains.

(A wee cross-post there!)

[ 29. April 2011, 13:18: Message edited by: +Chad ]

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Chad (The + is silent)

Where there is tea there is hope.

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TubaMirum
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I loved the change-ringing afterwards. Here's what the Telegraph article said it was:

quote:
The bells of the Abbey Church are rung by the Westminster Abbey Company of Ringers in a peal of Spliced Surprise Royal comprising 5,040 changes, conducted by David Hilling.

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Ascension-ite
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Got up early to watch, and was able to see the whole thing before leaving for work. Thought it was very beautiful, the best of Anglicanism. Was happy that it was allowed to play without any comments from idiot talking heads, very unusual for US journalists to give up the opportunity to natter on. Not sure about the trees as the people in the forest, probably really felt out of it, but they did lighten up the Abbey. James Middleton did an outstanding job reading, made me sit up and actually listen. Loved seeing the Sisters next to William and Kate, that was a nice touch and the music was generally very good. Well done all around.
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Pearl B4 Swine
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I watched the BBC U-Tubes, and chose The Entrance, first. From the first 2 notes of the processional ("I Was Glad") I decided then and there, that the whole thing was just fine. I can't get the exit procession one to play [Frown] . I assume from an earlier post it was the Walton piece. Great!

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mrs whibley
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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
This is a serious question and not intended to be snarky, but, why in the final prayer before the blessing do they pray for the wife to be faithful, and not the husband as well? Also, what is the origin of the prayer -- has it been in the liturgy since forever, and is it said in normal marriages or just royal ones?

It's from BCP 1662, and also in the proposed 1928 book (which is largely what the service was). The 1549 book had something similar, but asked that the woman should be loving and amiable as Rachel, wise as Rebecca and and faithful and obedient as Sara.
I hadn't heard the extraordinarily grim warning to those who might have a 'lawful impediment' to marriage before - but thought it must be 1662.

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I long for a faith that is gloriously treacherous - Mike Yaconelli

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mrs whibley
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quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
I watched the BBC U-Tubes, and chose The Entrance, first. From the first 2 notes of the processional ("I Was Glad") I decided then and there, that the whole thing was just fine. I can't get the exit procession one to play [Frown] . I assume from an earlier post it was the Walton piece. Great!

Walton's Crown Imperial. I was playing 'air cymbals' all through it, embarrassingly, as that was my part in the school orchestra [Smile] .

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I long for a faith that is gloriously treacherous - Mike Yaconelli

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jugular
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My friend and I spend a lot of time trying to work out who the Sisters were, particularly as they spent a lot of time in shot.

I'm assuming that one of them was Sister Judith CSC. Neither of them was Linda Mary , the Mother Superior.

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We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez

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FatherRobLyons
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I do have to ask, not being all that flamiliar with the royal bits (seeing as I live in the states), if it is normal to turn the Lord's Table into a curio cabinet for fine metalware for royal occassions.

I am sure the stuff displayed has royal signifigance, but my sense of liturgical snobbery wanted to scream "If it isn't a Eucharist, than nothing should be upon the Altar except a cross and two candlesticks!!!"

Rob+

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mrs whibley
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We had a short discussion on whether they were going to take up the collection using those plates!

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I long for a faith that is gloriously treacherous - Mike Yaconelli

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Gamaliel
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As well as the trees there was plenty of greenery in evidence along the rood-screen too.

I thought the whole thing was cool. The Anglicans still do this sort of thing very well.

I wasn't sure whether the Orthodox Metropolitan (Bishop Gregorios?) was signing along to Cwm Rhondda as I couldn't discern whether his lips were moving beneath his beard.

I tend to feel a bit sorry for the RCs, Orthodox and the various representatives of other religions - the Chief Rabbi etc - on these occasions as they have little to do but look decorative. But then, it's an Anglican service after all ...

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Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Chapelhead

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quote:
Originally posted by FatherRobLyons:
I do have to ask, not being all that flamiliar with the royal bits (seeing as I live in the states), if it is normal to turn the Lord's Table into a curio cabinet for fine metalware for royal occassions.

Apparently yes. Something similar happened at Charles and Camilla's bash in St George's, Windsor. You get a pretty good view from about 2.18 in this clip (if it works in your location).

[ 29. April 2011, 16:03: Message edited by: Chapelhead ]

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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itokro
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quote:
Originally posted by Gregory's Girl:
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:

A tangent to the ecclesiantical regalia, but is Catherine's tiara a duchess' tiara, or just a tiara with no significance beyond beauty?


I think they said it was made for the queen in 1936 and lent for the occasion. Do you think that counts as "something borrowed" or "something old"?
BBC says:
quote:
The earrings were the bride's "something new". For her "something blue", a blue ribbon was sewn into the interior of her dress, while her "something old" was the traditional Carrickmacross craftsmanship used to create the bridal gown.
So I'm assuming the tiara is the "something borrowed", but am I the only one who finds it finds it a bit strange for the "something old" to be a technique rather than a physical item?
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

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Arrggghhh!!!

Must edit my posts.

I meant 'singing along', not 'signing along.'

[Hot and Hormonal]

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I tend to feel a bit sorry for the RCs, Orthodox and the various representatives of other religions - the Chief Rabbi etc - on these occasions as they have little to do but look decorative. But then, it's an Anglican service after all ...

That's not always the case, though. As I recall, the Archbishop of Westminster and the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland both said prayers at Charles and Diana's wedding.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Qoheleth.

Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265

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quote:
Originally posted by Japes:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Nice to see such a prominent place given to representatives of the Sisters of the Church - I wonder what the significance of that placement is.

I noticed this too. Who were they?
I can't comment on the placement, but one of the Sisters is Chaplain to the Abbey.(The Community of the Sisters of the Church are an Anglican Community)
you may like to read S. Judith's Wedding in Cana sermon here.

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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.

Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Oreophagite:
I think the praecentor's bands were wider than his collar gap.

I did like the Ubi Caritas, in that acoustic and with those choirs. I think our choir would have intonation difficulty, and I think our basses might have trouble with the low notes. A D perhaps, or even a C.

The Rutter? Well. Back to his 1980's style.

The fanfare before the National Anthem was from the Coronation. I don't think the Coronation fanfares were ever published.

I loved the last stanza of Cwm Rhondda, and hope that it becomes available.

Yesterday, I was trying my best to explain to the Queen of Bashan why Anglican music snobs like myself instinctually sniff when we hear the name “Rutter.” The best I could do was say that Rutter is to us what Oasis is to rock snobs. He writes some fine melodies, and is quite accessible, but he doesn’t do much that is particularly interesting. The piece did a better job of explaining his style than I could. I am sure that it will have a long life of performances in diverse settings, but if I never sing it, I will not feel that I am missing something.

I thought the Ubi Caritas was fantastic. I think it has potential to become part of the repertoire at churches with more accomplished choirs. I don’t want to get too carried away, but were my choir to use that setting some Maundy Thursday in place of the Durufle (not every year, certainly, but every once in a while), I wouldn’t complain. I have a reminder in my calendar to download the recording of that cut on the 4th.

The other highlight, I thought, was the sermon. The opening about how every wedding is a royal wedding was particularly good. I thought it was both moving and inspiring, and did a good job of addressing the couple in particular, but at the same time speaking to the audience as a whole.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

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quote:
Originally posted by mrs whibley:
Walton's Crown Imperial. I was playing 'air cymbals' all through it, embarrassingly, as that was my part in the school orchestra [Smile] .

That piece seems essential in my mind to this time of year, or especially June, as I played saxophone in this piece every year at high school commencement, then inflicted it on my high school band when I went off to teach music (but it highly impressed the district superintendent).

I hasten to add that I love Crown Imperial. The title on our printed music bore the quotation, "In beauty bearing the Crown Imperial."

[ 29. April 2011, 16:49: Message edited by: Oblatus ]

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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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I liked the hymns and the choir songs (wonderful little boys singing soprano), but a couple of things I didn't like were the using the Lord's Prayer missing out the end bit most of us use, and not saying, Holy "Spirit" which IMO is more sensible than "Ghost". Going backward to years ago? Or did the two getting married choose these phrases?

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London
Flickr fotos

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Did anyone catch the second reading? I was out having a smoke.

There wasn't one.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
a couple of things I didn't like were the using the Lord's Prayer missing out the end bit most of us use, and not saying, Holy "Spirit" which IMO is more sensible than "Ghost". Going backward to years ago? Or did the two getting married choose these phrases?

The 'for thine is the kingdom.....' isn't in the 1928 wedding service, nor is it in Morning and Evening Prayer at that position, as part of the responses.

'Holy Spirit' didn't come in until Series 2 in the 1960s.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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When they returned from the signing of the registers, the couple did not bow to the alter (representing Christ) but they DID bow/courtsey to the Queen.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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I set my cable box to record the whole thing before going to bed last night, and watched it after breakfast this morning.

Lovely!

Pretty much what everyone above said. I was surprised, though, that the visiting clergy sat outside the quire.

The music was grand. I like Rutter's Requiem* -- have sung it -- but I haven't found anything else of his that I like, including the piece they did today.

"Guide Us O Thou Great Jehova" -- oops, I mean "Redeemer" -- was thrilling.

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* Adventuresome arrangers of choir music please note: "Jesus Joy of Loving Hearts" fits the tune and mood of the Pie Jesu movement perfectly.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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