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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Royal Wedding Watching
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FatherRobLyons:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
++Rowen was, for my taste, over-dressed as usual, but then I remembered it was the Abbey, therefore copes, if not wafer cakes are the order of the day.
Precisely - copes are the nominal rig at the Abbey. I think that may have been an Abbey cope. Thankfully, he didn't wear his yellow number.
The cope was a custom piece made by Watts & Co. They have a brief snippet about it up on their homepage.
Here's hoping he wears it often!
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
If the embroidery of the angel belongs to the Archbishop (as it says on the Watts & Co site), to whom does/will the cope belong? Is it his personally, or does it belong to + Cantuar (irrespective of who occupies that office) or does it belong to either the Abbey or maybe the Diocese of Canterbury?
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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sacerdos
Shipmate
# 8790
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Posted
I, too have always failed to understand the CofE's cult of the alms dish, and the cluttering of its altars with irrelevant "bling".
One wonders how many of those invited to state functions must wonder why CofE churches HAVE an altar at all. Indeed I suspect the majority of merely nominal anglicans in these islands see the altar as merely a shelf for a cross and two candlesticks - if not just for the exposition of that Sacred Alms Dish!
Posts: 62 | Registered: Nov 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sacerdos:
[QB] I, too have always failed to understand the CofE's cult of the alms dish...QB]
Dixolatry, I suspect.
The collection (which is a pragmatic part of church administration) is universally confused with the Offertory (which is a liturgical and symbolic act)
Dix taught the Anglo-Catholics that that was the proper liturgical action of the people in his fourfold scheme. So they stretched it to the max because it was pretty much the only thing that most lay people were allowed to do in those churches and they were bloody well going to do it.
The MOTR and low-church took it over, not really getting the liturgical function of the Offertory and so drawing needless attention to the physical movement of money around the worship space.
Doesn't help that "offertory" and "offering" are such similar words. I wouldn't be surprised if every single worshipper in our parish thought they meant the same thing. Probably including the clergy.
So, when dressed up in my reader's tat while the vicar is getting on with getting ready to celebrate, I have to stand at the front of the church holding a big plate, the people who have collected the money process up and put it on the plate, and I say a little prayer over it before handing it to a churchwarden (who goes and locks it away in the safe). And lots of people would be upset if we didn't do that. A classic example of a functional act becoming a ritual one - the people who have collected the money have to take it somewhere, after all.
Yes, if we had a concept of liturgical deacon, which we don't in our place, that would be a very proper action for such a person. Who would probably be me in our setup. But I do not think it should obscure or over-ride the start of the liturgy of the Eucharist. I'd much rather do it a little earlier and keep it separate from the liturgical Offertory.
Sorry, Mr Dix.
[ 03. May 2011, 16:55: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
I don't think it has to do with Dix at all. I'm familiar with the custom of the Consecration of the Cash mostly in lower Protestant churches (the Congregational and Baptist churches my family attended when I was a boy, e.g.). I'm pretty sure that none of those people were familiar with Dom Gregory, and if they had been they'd have made a point of doing the exact opposite of anything he suggested.
Supposedly non-liturgical churches have all kinds of little ceremonies that have developed because, when you get down to it, people *like* ceremonies. And if you've excluded a number of liturgical practices because they look "Catholic" to you or your church, then at some point vacuum-abhorring Nature will rush to fill the void. Hence the Consecration of the Cash, the Solemn Lighting of the Unity Candle, the Charismatic Manual Acts, etc.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sacerdos:
I, too have always failed to understand the CofE's cult of the alms dish, and the cluttering of its altars with irrelevant "bling".
One wonders how many of those invited to state functions must wonder why CofE churches HAVE an altar at all. Indeed I suspect the majority of merely nominal anglicans in these islands see the altar as merely a shelf for a cross and two candlesticks - if not just for the exposition of that Sacred Alms Dish!
Nevertheless, for those of us who know why these things are the way we are, we shall struggle to cope with the possibility that not everyone visiting an unfamiliar process in an unfamiliar building with unfamiliar ways, will probably not be able to understand everything entirely.
For my own part, I find asking a few intelligent questions here and there - if I'm really that bothered about something I see - usually de-mystifies things.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Doesn't help that "offertory" and "offering" are such similar words. I wouldn't be surprised if every single worshipper in our parish thought they meant the same thing. Probably including the clergy.
I once remarked that my sister, a staunch atheist, is so averse to Mass attendance that she'll probably take the Judas walk at the offertory at my own wedding, having seen the relevant legal bits. My mother, chagrined, replied, "You're not going to have an offering at your wedding, surely?"
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
So, when dressed up in my reader's tat while the vicar is getting on with getting ready to celebrate, I have to stand at the front of the church holding a big plate, the people who have collected the money process up and put it on the plate, and I say a little prayer over it before handing it to a churchwarden (who goes and locks it away in the safe). And lots of people would be upset if we didn't do that. A classic example of a functional act becoming a ritual one - the people who have collected the money have to take it somewhere, after all.
Do you mean you don't elevate it? shocking. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
People at my place firmly believe that "Praise God from Whom all blessings flow" (Old 100th) is an immutable part of the Ordinary of the Mass. And yes, the money basin is lifted up.
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
I once remarked that my sister, a staunch atheist, is so averse to Mass attendance that she'll probably take the Judas walk at the offertory at my own wedding, having seen the relevant legal bits. My mother, chagrined, replied, "You're not going to have an offering at your wedding, surely?"
I've seen offerings taken at two weddings, both for charity purposes.
As for your sis, why bother leaving? If she's atheist, then she doesn't believe anything relevant is going on anyway, so she might as well just sit there to avoid distracting her brother.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
Supposedly non-liturgical churches have all kinds of little ceremonies that have developed because, when you get down to it, people *like* ceremonies. And if you've excluded a number of liturgical practices because they look "Catholic" to you or your church, then at some point vacuum-abhorring Nature will rush to fill the void. Hence the Consecration of the Cash, the Solemn Lighting of the Unity Candle, the Charismatic Manual Acts, etc.
I played at a wedding at a low, low Episcopal Church in the mid-South some years ago. The Rector was known for celebrating the Eucharist in swimming pools for the parish youth group. At the wedding, there was a Eucharist, with Rector in cassock and stole, and dialogue and preface omitted. But as I left the ceremony, I noticed the sexton was vested.
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
Posts: 386 | From: Between two big lakes | Registered: Apr 2008
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Ger
Shipmate
# 3113
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Posted
I would remind shipmates concerning the money that they are in effect criticising a modern (post WW2, if not post-1962) practice.
The 1662 Communion service clearly differentiates between "the money" and "the bread and wine". The "money" was dealt with in the prayer for the "Church militant here in earth" having been collected by "the Deacons, Churchwardens, or other fit person appointed for that purpose" during the sentences recited immediately before that prayer. The "decent bason" is placed "upon the holy Table."
Having placed the decent bason only then "the Priest shall then place upon the Table so much Bread and Wine, as he shall think sufficient." The bread and wine then have to wait until the Invitation, Confession, Absolution, Comfortable Words and so on have been said/sung before the Prayer of Consecration. In other words, "Cranmer" and the boys clearly differentiated between money (alms) being collected and the bread and wine.
I have been unable to find any "1662 rubrics" supporting the taking up of money during Mattins and Evensong. Certainly in one significant anglican parish church and the pro-Cathedral here in Wellington NZ they seemed pass the hat from about 1847. There were interminable and inconclusive debates about using bags or plates.
In the pro-Cathedral, where the choir was in a transept gallery, the bag was put on a long pole and passed up to the singers. It was noted in the Vestry minutes that on more than one occasion the bag came back down somewhat lighter than when it went up!
In other words the modern liturgist has managed to confuse the "bread and wine" with the "alms and oblations".
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Elohai, n'tzor l'shoni mayro, usfosai midabayr mirmo.
V'limkal'lai nafshi sidom, v'nafshi ke-ofor lakol tih-ye.
(Shemoneh Esrei)
Posts: 93 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jul 2002
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Back to the music.
The Rutter was banal and tedious and reminded me of Disney movie music not written by Alan Menken.
The choirs were tremendous, though, and the setting of Ubi Caritas was spectacular.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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NatDogg
Shipmate
# 14347
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Posted
Yes, I totally agree. The Rutter was absolutely lacking in any imagination or refinement. Terribly boring, it was.
The other music was spectacular--the descants on the hymns especially.
I liked "I Was Glad" better than I liked the later Parry piece, but I'm partial to anything played at a Coronation. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Quam Dilecta
Shipmate
# 12541
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Posted
When the 1662 Prayer Book was adopted, there was no need to take a collection at Matins. The standard Sunday routine was Morning Prayer, Litany, and Ante-Communion, treated as a single service. In the USA, permission to use these three components as separate services was first given in the 1892 edition of the Prayer Book, but I suspect that the Prayer Book was only catching up with actual parochial practice.
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Blessd are they that dwell in thy house
Posts: 406 | From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FatherRobLyons:
I do have to ask, not being all that flamiliar with the royal bits (seeing as I live in the states), if it is normal to turn the Lord's Table into a curio cabinet for fine metalware for royal occassions.
I am sure the stuff displayed has royal signifigance, but my sense of liturgical snobbery wanted to scream "If it isn't a Eucharist, than nothing should be upon the Altar except a cross and two candlesticks!!!"
Rob+
It's an old tradition to display the plate on state or other significant occasions. Here's the Abbey decked out for Queen Victoria's coronation and the Chapel Royal for George III's wedding both showing the sideboards of plate.
As someone mentioned upthread, you often get a similar display at patronal feasts. Exeter Cathedral heaves uot seemingly every gilt and silver vessel they have for the Feast of the Dedication.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
As for your sis, why bother leaving? If she's atheist, then she doesn't believe anything relevant is going on anyway, so she might as well just sit there to avoid distracting her brother.
She's mellowed since the vintage of that anecdote, and very graciously turned up when I took my first Sunday service even though she clearly hadn't been home from her usual Saturday night social whirl in the interval.
quote:
Originally posted by Ger:
In other words the modern liturgist has managed to confuse the "bread and wine" with the "alms and oblations".
I've understood them to be identified with the
oblations, and distinguished from the alms. So, when interceding at the weekly college BCP Mass (which takes no collection) I omit "alms" whereas I would leave out the oblations at a Sunday morning Ante-Communion (which seems to be more common in Lutheran churches, with Anglicans who want to alternate something with HC preferring Mattins)
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Okay, I'm going to be the one to ask. "It is convenient ["fitting" in 1962] that the new-married persons should receive the holy Communion at the time of their Marriage, or at the first opportunity after their Marriage," sez the BCP. Does the royal family keep to this? We know they can't do it with us plebs milling about (at least not after they're crowned) but can they get +Richard to pop by with a portable Communion set (special effects by the Moderator of the Church of Scotland)? Inquiring minds want to know (or ought that to be enquiring - my trans-Atlantic circuits are overloading!)
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Perhaps they did a 'drive thru' at St. James's Palace?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
Back to the music...
I would agree that the Rutter was nothing special, though it will probably make a lot of money. I thought there were some nicer passages toward the end, but the beginning was pure cheese.
I'm perhaps alone in not being smitten by the "Ubi Caritas". I did not actually hear it until Saturday, when I watched the wedding. It had generated enough facebook buzz, though, that I went to youtube and listened to a number of his other pieces before the wedding piece was available. I enjoyed the "Locus iste" and the "Ave Maria", and felt the "Ubi Caritas" disappointing in comparison when I heard it.
There is also a bit of a sameness to all the pieces of Paul Mealor I've been able to hear so far--they are well crafted, but not strikingly original. It may be my American provinciality showing through, but he seems to write in a style reminiscent of Lauridsen and Whitacre without the sustainable interest of those two moderns.
I loved the Parry--and I'm going to go against the crowd again and say that I loved "Blest pair of sirens" because I hear it much less frequently than "I was glad". Both, though, are personal favorites.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
It's an old tradition to display the plate on state or other significant occasions. Here's the Abbey decked out for Queen Victoria's coronation and the Chapel Royal for George III's wedding both showing the sideboards of plate.
As someone mentioned upthread, you often get a similar display at patronal feasts. Exeter Cathedral heaves uot seemingly every gilt and silver vessel they have for the Feast of the Dedication.
Our bling comes out on high days and holidays. When it's all out, we can cover the High Altar and Lady Altar,
The present building is the third church on the site since the 13th Century, so we've accumulated a substantial collection (for a Parish Church) of mediaeval, Jacobean, Georgian, Victorian and 20th Century plate.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
Our bling comes out on high days and holidays. When it's all out, we can cover the High Altar and Lady Altar,
The present building is the third church on the site since the 13th Century, so we've accumulated a substantial collection (for a Parish Church) of mediaeval, Jacobean, Georgian, Victorian and 20th Century plate.
Back when I was in Norwich, we would mark special occasions by recovering the best plate from the Cathedral treasury (where it was normally displayed) and place it on the altar in like manner. In our case, this consisted of several ewers and chalices, so was more overly Eucharistic - there was an alms-dish, but I don't believe this was used.
This usually happened on the Octave of Easter and our Dedication Festival, although it slightly depended when a it was convenient for it to be collected - issues of both security, and sheer weight!
This
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Just a comment about the Rutter bit - I found it surprising and out of place - like the kind of thing one would find in a musical (I'm guessing it will probably be used thousands of times over in town and village shows now). But then, maybe that kind of popular appeal was exactly what he was aiming for - lowbrow, and more accessible to most? Is that a fair comment?
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Oreophagite
Shipmate
# 10534
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Posted
To me, Rutter's popular style is some fusion of Faure, Lloyd Webber, and Gaither. There seems to be a hint of traditional English choral writing style always lurking in the background.
To me, this popular style (including the Royal Wedding anthem) comes across as "writing down" to American Protestants, as a way to make ends meet. Nothing wrong with making some money, I suppose.
I once knew a Protestant church musician who would get written and telephone complaints if he didn't have the choir sing "A Gaelic Blessing" at the end of each and every service. This naturally invited parody - both musical and verbal.
He's entirely capable of serious composition, and is gifted with melodic invention, and arranging. His choral lines are easy to sing.
I think he'll be remembered for Carols for Choirs, and for the choral-orchestral arrangements of familiar Christmas carols. Maybe "God Be in My Head" and Psalm 23. Oh, and his performing edition of the Faure Requiem.
Folks who have seen him conduct are amazed that anything happens as a result. Nonetheless some of the Cambridge recordings are very good, no doubt a tribute to the assembled singers.
Furthermore, he visited a very conservative Protestant church in Denver some years ago, and gobsmacked them by openly sharing his lack of Christian faith with them.
Still, he's got a CBE, and the Royal Wedding anthem, and that's nothing to sneeze at.
Posts: 247 | From: The Klipoth | Registered: Oct 2005
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
Our bling comes out on high days and holidays. When it's all out, we can cover the High Altar and Lady Altar,
The present building is the third church on the site since the 13th Century, so we've accumulated a substantial collection (for a Parish Church) of mediaeval, Jacobean, Georgian, Victorian and 20th Century plate.
Back when I was in Norwich, we would mark special occasions by recovering the best plate from the Cathedral treasury (where it was normally displayed) and place it on the altar in like manner. In our case, this consisted of several ewers and chalices, so was more overly Eucharistic - there was an alms-dish, but I don't believe this was used.
Ours are almost entirely Eucharistic vessels. There's a silver alms bason and a silver trowel from the foundation-stone-laying ceremony ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) , other than that it's chalices, communion cups, patens, flagons - most of which are in regular use through the year.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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David Powell
Apprentice
# 5545
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Posted
For me, it was a glorious mixture of Anglican ritual and military pageantry, but also displayed a moving intimacy. By the way, full marks to the BBC for its unobtrusive coverage. I could have wished for less Parry, but rather some Purcell and Handel, whose bones lie very nearby. My three favourite hymns, with a nice Welsh bias.
It would be nice to think a lot of viewers might think, (literally), OMG there's actually an awful lot that is good about Christianity.
How good to believe this is a young couple who will embody notions of honour and service. There are a lot of very rich people in the world who seem to do precious little for their fellow human beings.
Posts: 41 | From: London UK | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
I duly watched the proceedings on television and got a good impression that way.
I have it on good authority that the bellringers were confined to the north-west tower for eight hours from 8.00 to 16.00 hours. After doing the ringing they had to do before the service, they rang the peal of three hours or more after the service, having to wait during the service. They had a bucket for necessary relief!
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Oreophagite
Shipmate
# 10534
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Posted
The fabric for ++Rowan's cope is called "Pugin Gothic Tapestry."
The original 19th century Pugin cope, with a different hood, is in the Victoria and Albert museum.
Some internet searching will teach you more than you need to know about Pugin and his fabric design. He was from Kent, so ++Rowan made a wise choice from that perspective.
Watts have the fabric, and I'm sure they will make up a very nice vestment set at their customarily small price, just as Princess Kate's wedding dress is now being copied.
Posts: 247 | From: The Klipoth | Registered: Oct 2005
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MrMusicMan
Shipmate
# 16343
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Posted
On a semi-tangent, after hearing The Crown Imperial at the wedding, I decided that my band would play it this year at Graduation for the faculty's procession into the ceremony.
Having downloaded the official wedding version on iTunes, I say, a splendid version was done for the wedding, and I hope we can play the Bocook bastardization with somewhat the same pomp and nobility.
Posts: 167 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Apr 2011
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
On a semi-tangent, after hearing The Crown Imperial at the wedding, I decided that my band would play it this year at Graduation for the faculty's procession into the ceremony.
The Crown Imperial was the standard for the procession at my college's commencement ceremonies.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Did they play Crown Imperial?
Damn! I like that music. I vaguely intended to buy a CD with it on. Now if I do they'll think I heard it on the TV wedding and I'll be too embarrassed to buy it!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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MrMusicMan
Shipmate
# 16343
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Posted
Where I went to high school, the procession in was the Wedding March from Tannhaueser and the procession out was Meyerbeer's Coronation March from the Prophet.
I did my undergrad at UW, so the platform party processed in to some goofy fanfare-y thing. There was no procession out, but immediately following the ceremony, if the crowd begged for it, Mike played You've Said it All.
Where I teach now, it was Hope and Glory in, Hope and Glory out. We changed the processional out to Superman several years ago, and added a processional of the faculty last year (in silence). We'll do Crown for them this year.
Posts: 167 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Apr 2011
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Did they play Crown Imperial?
Damn! I like that music. I vaguely intended to buy a CD with it on. Now if I do they'll think I heard it on the TV wedding and I'll be too embarrassed to buy it!
It was the recessional for the bride and groom.
quote:
I did my undergrad at UW, so the platform party processed in to some goofy fanfare-y thing. There was no procession out, but immediately following the ceremony, if the crowd begged for it, Mike played You've Said it All.
For us in college, it was Crown Imperial in and Clifton Williams' The Sinfonians out. Some of us were particularly partial to the latter choice.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Of course being a Brit I have no idea at all what a procession at a college commencement is. Or even a college commencement, really. We don't do that stuff here.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I have it on good authority that the bellringers were confined to the north-west tower for eight hours from 8.00 to 16.00 hours.
Serves the buggers right... making all that noise!
Slightly more seriously, having discussed what they might ring, I was amused on the news that evening to discover that they rung rounds as the bride arrived (well, if people are going to book their weddings after I've booked my holiday in the Lakes, they've got to expect me to be yomping round the hills somewhere!).
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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MrMusicMan
Shipmate
# 16343
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Posted
Ken, if you have access to iTunes, you can download multiple versions of The Crown Imperial, including the one played at the Royal Wedding, direct from the Royal Wedding album. I am a bit partial to the cuts they used as well as the obnoxious timpani cracks to start the "A" sections.
The Sinfonians... Wisconsin didn't have a Sinfonians Chapter when I was an undergrad, so I never had the chance to join. I do happen to LOVE the march though.
Posts: 167 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Apr 2011
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Did they play Crown Imperial?
Damn! I like that music. I vaguely intended to buy a CD with it on. Now if I do they'll think I heard it on the TV wedding and I'll be too embarrassed to buy it!
If you buy something like this instead you also get Orb & Sceptre and Belshazzar's Feast and get to look much more highbrow.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Of course being a Brit I have no idea at all what a procession at a college commencement is. Or even a college commencement, really. We don't do that stuff here.
Commencement is the ceremony at which degrees are formally awarded. The processional is the entry of the faculty and graduating students in academic regalia -- one of the few times such regalia is worn here. While those on your side of the pond may associate Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1 with "Land of Hope and Glory," people on this side automatically think of high school and college graduations when they hear it.
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
The Sinfonians... Wisconsin didn't have a Sinfonians Chapter when I was an undergrad, so I never had the chance to join.
I admit -- I was wondering. Sorry you didn't have the chance at UW.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I have it on good authority that the bellringers were confined to the north-west tower for eight hours from 8.00 to 16.00 hours.
Serves the buggers right... making all that noise!
Slightly more seriously, having discussed what they might ring, I was amused on the news that evening to discover that they rung rounds as the bride arrived (well, if people are going to book their weddings after I've booked my holiday in the Lakes, they've got to expect me to be yomping round the hills somewhere!).
AG
If they were ringing rounds when the bride arrived that makes sense, so that they were ready to stop ringing when they weren't in the middle of ringing a method and ready to stop instantly when required to do so.
I do not have results to hand, but for the peal afterwards taking about 3-1/4 hours of non-stop ringing (without repeating any change) of 5,000+ changes of spliced surprise royal. Royal means rung on ten bells - the Abbey ring consisting of ten bells.
Before the service, they were ringing for 45 minutes - I believe. It may have been Stedman Caters (approximately 1,200 changes as in a quarter peal, but I will have to check my information. Caters means rung on nine bells with the tenor 'covering' i.e. ringing last in each change.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Of course being a Brit I have no idea at all what a procession at a college commencement is. Or even a college commencement, really. We don't do that stuff here.
For "commencement," read "graduation."
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Weird. It sounds like the begining of a thing not the end. We have graduation ceremonies of course, and wear robes at them. They are fun. But neither of the ones I've been to involved any martial music or processions.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Weird. It sounds like the begining of a thing not the end.
It is. It's the first day of the rest of your life....
(Really, that's the idea.)
[ 11. May 2011, 18:29: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Weird. It sounds like the begining of a thing not the end.
It is. It's the first day of the rest of your life....
(Really, that's the idea.)
And specifically the first day of your life as something other than a student. You begin to work.
Unless, of course, you head to grad school of some kind. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Weird. It sounds like the begining of a thing not the end. We have graduation ceremonies of course, and wear robes at them. They are fun. But neither of the ones I've been to involved any martial music or processions.
The procession is to lend a formal air to things, to let everyone in robes be seen in their finery (the faculty in their various schools' attire and the students in their matching caps and gowns), and to have traditional, confident-sounding music played.
Then there's the long procession in the middle of the event during which students receive the degrees and their names are announced individually.
The verb "to walk" is sometimes used to refer to one's participation in one's own commencement ceremony: "Only a week until I walk!" or "Are you going to walk or skip the whole thing?" "Walk" in this instance means "proceed to where the dean is standing, receive my diploma/degree from him/her, and proceed back to my seat among my fellow students."
And you're symbolically walking from your student life into your new life in the world of work, further study elsewhere, or indecision: whatever you're going to do next. The ceremony marks the commencement of that.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Of course being a Brit I have no idea at all what a procession at a college commencement is. Or even a college commencement, really. We don't do that stuff here.
Methinks ken doth protest too much.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Ah, I see - by commencement I thought you meant matriculation. Some universities and colleges have formal matriculation ceremonies - others just ask you to turn up and sign something in between your first visit to the bar and your next visit to the bar.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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anon four
Shipmate
# 15938
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Posted
I'm no fan of it - but I do wonder if Rutter was aiming at something that church choirs who do not consist of multiple folk with perfect pitch on each part could manage at the next parish wedding. You know St Warblers in the Glade choir of committed but stretched three elderly parish folk and their dog. They will at least be able to attempt one of the pieces sung at the Royal Wedding when brides and grooms expect to be able to have something from that lovely service of Will and Kate's.....
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Ό δε ανεξέταστος βίος ου βιωτος ανθρώπω.
Posts: 82 | From: Sunny South Coast, UK | Registered: Oct 2010
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Of course being a Brit I have no idea at all what a procession at a college commencement is. Or even a college commencement, really. We don't do that stuff here.
Methinks ken doth protest too much.
Well that's the point: all of those are labelled graduation ceremony. And not all UK universities have processions. At Oxford the only procession is at Encaenia, the annual awarding of honorary degrees, which undergraduates don't attend anyway.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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Manipled Mutineer
Shipmate
# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Weird. It sounds like the begining of a thing not the end. We have graduation ceremonies of course, and wear robes at them. They are fun. But neither of the ones I've been to involved any martial music or processions.
I think that we processed in for my M.A. graduation but not for B.A., although I was too hung over at the latter to form any accurate impression of what was going on...
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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