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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Royal Wedding Watching
dj_ordinaire
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For my last two degrees, a fanfare was played whilst the Chancellor, Orator and Faculty processed on to the dias, whilst the graduands sat ready-robed at the side waiting to be called up.

For the others, we processed through town but entered without any further ado, after standing in a queue for a while.

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Flinging wide the gates...

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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
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quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Okay, I'm going to be the one to ask. "It is convenient ["fitting" in 1962] that the new-married persons should receive the holy Communion at the time of their Marriage, or at the first opportunity after their Marriage," sez the BCP. Does the royal family keep to this? We know they can't do it with us plebs milling about (at least not after they're crowned) but can they get +Richard to pop by with a portable Communion set (special effects by the Moderator of the Church of Scotland)? Inquiring minds want to know (or ought that to be enquiring - my trans-Atlantic circuits are overloading!)

If you're going by proper Kirk style, the Cambridges should receive a pastoral visitation by their assigned Ruling Elder who will determine whether they are fit to receive the Lord's Supper or not. The Elder will then hand them their Communion Card, or not. The Domestic Chaplain of the Ecclesiastical Household in Scotland is the minister at Crathie Kirk so the duty of pastorally visiting the Cambridges would fall to the Elder on their Session who covers Balmoral.

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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.

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Forthview
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So,if the Ruling Elder decides that they are not fit to receive the Lord's supper,how does that square with the idea of the Lord's table being open to all who claim to love the Lord ?
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sacerdos
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I've never understood how the British "Royals" can be Anglicans when in England and become Presbyterians as soon as they cross into Scotland. It may not worry the present Queen much, but in the last century or so there have been members of the family who have been openly more sympathetic to Anglo-Catholicism. Did eg the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret receive communion in the Presbyterian church when in Scotland? In my AC days I could not in conscience have done so, regardless of what anyone told me the requirements of State were. Does anyone know if provision has ever been made for "Catholic" members of the royal family to attend a Scottish Episcopal Eucharist before the famous "Morning Service" (and photo opportunity) at the local Kirk?
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Forthview
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I don't know if there is any requirement of state here.Nor do I think that there is any formal (but temporary)renunciation of Anglicanism. It is simply the custom ,since the time of Queen Victoria ,that the monarch and her family attend the local (Presbyterian) church.

Again I do not think that there is any celebration of the Lord's supper while the Queen is in residence,so I think that it is highly unlikely that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge (aka Earl and Countess of Strathearn) would receive Communion during any residence at Balmoral. However,whether they do or don't in none of our business.

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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Victoria of course was decidely low church in her attitude and aesthetics.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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I understand that our present Queen prefers non-Eucharistic services like Matins. I do not know how frequent a communicant she is.

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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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And she only communes in private, I believe. Frankly this all seems to be so much royal neuroticism.
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Utrecht Catholic
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It well known that the late Queen Mother, who was a member of the Scottish Episcopal Church always received communion in this branch of Anglicanism.
I think that Princess Margaret followed her mother.

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Robert Kennedy

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Doublethink.
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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
And she only communes in private, I believe. Frankly this all seems to be so much royal neuroticism.

My guess is that may be a security provision.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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quote:
Originally posted by Think˛:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
And she only communes in private, I believe. Frankly this all seems to be so much royal neuroticism.

My guess is that may be a security provision.
No, I think it is her personal choice. I am old enough to remember her coronation in 1953 and if my memory serves me correctly, the service was in the context of a Communion service.

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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!

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Doublethink.
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Indeed, but it was after that her daughter was nearly kidnapped and her husband's great-uncle was murdered. Then there was the Michael Fagan incident, and the occasion someone shot at her during the trooping of the colour. I would think that changes ones perspective.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
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quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
So,if the Ruling Elder decides that they are not fit to receive the Lord's supper,how does that square with the idea of the Lord's table being open to all who claim to love the Lord ?

This is not the position held by the Church of Scotland or Presbyterianism in general historically. Traditional practice is much more in keeping with Roman Catholic ideas about confession before receiving.

Open communion is a modern thing in Presbyterianism.

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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.

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Mamacita

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In case anyone missed this.

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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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Magic Wand
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Apparently Fr Richard Giles really didn't care for it.
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Knopwood
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That's how you know it was good!
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St. Punk the Pious

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Just exactly what were they doing out of sight in the Shrine of St. Edward the Confessor? Taking communion? Hoary oaths to the Confessor?

(Forgive me if this has been asked or answered before, I've skimmed the thread and didn't find the answer . . . )

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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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anon four
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If only it were so mysterious...

They were signing the wedding registers.

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Ό δε ανεξέταστος βίος ου βιωτος ανθρώπω.

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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
That's how you know it was good!

[Snigger] Former Dean Giles and I don't see eye to eye on many things, but I have to give him props for being a good preacher and a decent man.

However,

Dean Giles could have taken the time to point out the great efforts that were taken to make Westminster Abbey look less like a crypt and more like a garden, with impressive results.

He could have complimented the use of choir seating in the nave that the royal family rarely fails to employ.

He could have acknowledged that the bold (and uncustomary for the royal family) move to begin the liturgy with a hymn was perhaps a selfless attempt to show that what was taking place was, above all, not a worship of the royal family, but of the Lord.

He could have conceded that, due to security, the young royals were severely limited on venue, and that, like it or not, Westminster Abbey is a family church.

He could have assumed the best--that the young couple themselves chose the old words (from Common Worship, not Prayer Book, I think..?)--rather than jumping to conclusions about parental influence.

He could have understood the politics behind the hymn choice, and appreciated the sentimental feeling that accompanies those hymns that were sung at Diana's funeral, too.

He could have resisted wishing that the service would be an advertisement for contemporary worship of his preference.

...But he didn't.

As an aside, I have attended a number of weddings in contemporary, praise-band-all-the-time non-denom happy clappy churches, and every single wedding fell in the realm of "traditional." Nary a tambourine in sight. Seats arranged to face forward. One service even had communion.

If Dean Giles has a daughter, I wonder if she had to march up the aisle to "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man" to show how withit she is!

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Hooker's Trick

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quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
Apparently Fr Richard Giles really didn't care for it.

Reading this

quote:
All the more disappointing therefore was the fact that the wedding rite seemed so far adrift from people of their age group
made me reflect that every CofE wedding I've attended in the last 15 years was BCP language.

I realise this may have more to say about my circle of friends than "people of their age group" in general, but the people I know who wanted to be married in church wanted the full-octane version (one even had the brute beasts).

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anon four
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But it wasn't BCP - it was series 1..... (ie: 1928 authorised).

And having taken a few hundred bog standard C of E weddings in the past 15 years, only one couple chose to have traditional words for the vows alone (an option in Common Worship)and all to a bride and groom decided against BCP or Series 1. These in a variety of settings from council estate to the leafy lanes of southern English Villages.

And no - I didn't push them that way...... [Smile]

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Ό δε ανεξέταστος βίος ου βιωτος ανθρώπω.

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Pre-cambrian
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quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Reading this

quote:
All the more disappointing therefore was the fact that the wedding rite seemed so far adrift from people of their age group
made me reflect that every CofE wedding I've attended in the last 15 years was BCP language.

Let alone another example of someone who, going by his picture, is in advanced middle age thinking he knows far better what "people in their age group" want and appreciate.

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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."

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Manipled Mutineer
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quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
Apparently Fr Richard Giles really didn't care for it.

Reading this

quote:
All the more disappointing therefore was the fact that the wedding rite seemed so far adrift from people of their age group
made me reflect that every CofE wedding I've attended in the last 15 years was BCP language.

I realise this may have more to say about my circle of friends than "people of their age group" in general, but the people I know who wanted to be married in church wanted the full-octane version (one even had the brute beasts).

Which is indeed what my wife and I chose when we got married nine years ago. She even promised to "obey" me, which becomes more and more amusing with each passing year...

[ 17. May 2011, 11:45: Message edited by: Manipled Mutineer ]

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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books


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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
In case anyone missed this.

Photoshopped. Cinderella's a blonde, the prince is a brunette, and the stepsisters wore green and red.

...what? I like the movie Cinderella. Shutup.

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

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Knopwood
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quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Reading this

quote:
All the more disappointing therefore was the fact that the wedding rite seemed so far adrift from people of their age group
made me reflect that every CofE wedding I've attended in the last 15 years was BCP language.

Let alone another example of someone who, going by his picture, is in advanced middle age thinking he knows far better what "people in their age group" want and appreciate.
We never fail to frustrate our elders with our intransigence in displaying the aversion to the Prayer Book they insist we ought to have.

[ 17. May 2011, 19:24: Message edited by: LQ ]

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Mamacita

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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
In case anyone missed this.

Photoshopped. Cinderella's a blonde, the prince is a brunette, and the stepsisters wore green and red.

I know, but it's still hilarious.

--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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sacerdos
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As an Anglican choirboy in the 50's I lost count of the number of BCP weddings I had to sing for - two bob a time, and half a crown if they wanted (Presbyterian)"Crimond"! - but I found it rather moving to hear again at the royal hitching a rite so similar to 1662. Something inside me still says if you can't have Latin you should have Cranmer - nothing else is worthy.
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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
Which is indeed what my wife and I chose when we got married nine years ago. She even promised to "obey" me, which becomes more and more amusing with each passing year...

Who was it that came up with this gem:
"I promised to obey, but I never said how often"?

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Corvo
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quote:
Originally posted by sacerdos:
I've never understood how the British "Royals" can be Anglicans when in England and become Presbyterians as soon as they cross into Scotland.

The Queen is an Anglican even when she is in Scotland. She takes an oath to defend the constitutional arrangements in Scotland whereby the Church of Scotland is 'self-governing' (i.e. free of state interference) rather than 'established'. She is represented at the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and occasionally attends the local church at Balmoral.

it strikes me this could be a model for a future Church of England if the monarch were to be no longer Anglican but still Supreme Governor and Fid. Def..

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Corvo
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quote:
Originally posted by Utrecht Catholic:
It well known that the late Queen Mother, who was a member of the Scottish Episcopal Church . . .

I am wondering what the 'authority' for this is. She was born in England and baptized in a Church of England church.
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Manipled Mutineer
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
Which is indeed what my wife and I chose when we got married nine years ago. She even promised to "obey" me, which becomes more and more amusing with each passing year...

Who was it that came up with this gem:
"I promised to obey, but I never said how often"?

I must be fair and say that she is absolutely punctilious about obeying each and every instruction I never give her.
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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
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quote:
Originally posted by Sacred London:
quote:
Originally posted by sacerdos:
I've never understood how the British "Royals" can be Anglicans when in England and become Presbyterians as soon as they cross into Scotland.

The Queen is an Anglican even when she is in Scotland. She takes an oath to defend the constitutional arrangements in Scotland whereby the Church of Scotland is 'self-governing' (i.e. free of state interference) rather than 'established'. She is represented at the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and occasionally attends the local church at Balmoral.

it strikes me this could be a model for a future Church of England if the monarch were to be no longer Anglican but still Supreme Governor and Fid. Def..

For what it's worth, the Royal Website states it this way:

quote:
In the United Kingdom, The Queen's title includes the words 'Defender of the Faith'.

This means Her Majesty has a specific role in both the Church of England and the Church of Scotland.

As established Churches, they are recognised by law as the official Churches of England and Scotland, respectively. In both England and Scotland, the established Churches are subject to the regulation of law. . . .

The site goes on to note this about her role in the Church of Scotland:
quote:
In Scotland, there is a division of powers by which Church and State are each supreme in their own sphere. The Church is self-governing in all that concerns its own activities. . . .

The monarch takes an oath to preserve the Church of Scotland at the meeting of the Privy Council immediately following his or her accession.

The Crown is represented at the Assembly, sometimes by the monarch in person, but more often by a Lord High Commissioner appointed each year by The Queen.

Provided that it acts within the law of the land, the Assembly has the power to pass resolutions which can have effect without Royal Assent.



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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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dj_ordinaire
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I think that this thread is coming to the end of its purpose... There might be mileage in a Purg thread for discussion Royal beliefs (or possibly in Heaven, depending on how serious it was). But unless there is anything more to be debated re: the wedding itself, we'll close this thread one tonight.

dj_ordinaire, Eccles host

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Flinging wide the gates...

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