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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Penal Substitutionary Atonement
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
This blogpost is well worth a read on theological questions around atonement.
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Posts: 8705 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
The point can never be stressed enough in the face of the intra-Trinitarian child abuse model of atonement.
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny S:
It is not a direct substitute (as you point out). But then no atonement theory argues that it is anyway. For example, the way that one man (Jesus) dies on behalf of the human race is not a direct substitute either.
I don't get this. How is it not direct? Please explain.
One person cannot be a substitute for lots of people.
E.g. in a sporting context it could be theoretically possible to take the entire team off and only bring one player on, but technically he/she would still only be substituting one of the players who came off.
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
You appear to be confusing "direct" with "one-to-one". Indirect would mean there is some intermediary.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
Possibly. Indirect was meant to modify the analogy rather than (directly ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) the word substitution.
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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Jamat
Shipmate
# 11621
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Posted
quote:
Mousethief:I argue with your reading of St. Paul. But more, with the inconsistencies in your argument.
How is it inconsistent to say Paul regarded Adam as a representative man and Christ as a representative man when he actually says this clearly?(1Cor 15:22)
ISTM dishonest to deny this.
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Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)
Posts: 3228 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jul 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Forget it, Jamat. Clearly I am not going to be able to explain it in a manner that you are going to understand.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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