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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Mafia in St. Damian's, Oxford
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Blast. This is getting rather close to the tape.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Mrs. Layman looked out at the ever falling snow. The drifts were piling high all around the house again.
Three suspects remained. The librarian, the cook and the cat. Which one was SCUM? Dr. Logge and the cat had chosen wrongly, and now the college was in deep peril indeed.
She sighed. She never did like cats.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I don't feel guilty. Not at all. I'm a cat and everyone knows that cats never feel guilty about anything.
I am rather surprised though. He looked so very guilty. All goes to show that it pays to stay alert and pay attention, I suppose.
Between Dyllis and Miss Chelley, I think I have to say Miss Chelley looks guiltier. But if Dyllis gets away with murder, then she'll deserve my grudging admiration.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
It just goes to show that appearances can be deceptive!
I seem to have had the opposite instinct to others in suspecting the cook and trusting the cat but I've also had a niggle underlying all along that I've been hoodwinked by the cat's forebears, but then can you hold a cat responsible for their actions - I don't think so? But can't put aside the strange choices of the cook and the only defence for her seems to have been her non-lynch vote early on (thanks for the answers to that question anyway).
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Dawn rises. As the inhabitants of St. Damian's rise from their beds, they find that Barbara Layman has been killed overnight. She was the prankster. As she was a little busy being killed, she was unable to prank anyone overnight, so all of you can vote today.
Nominations open till 8pm EST Wednesday.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Mrs. Layman stoked up the fires before she went to bed. The wind was howling, and more snow beating upon the window shutters. The chill was all pervasive, as the snow drifts against the walls of the house had now encased it in icy coldness.
She lay awake for what seemed like forever, listening to her husband softly snoring, and Pike occasionally coughing in his sleep downstairs. Eventually unconsciousness overcame her. She did not hear the villain who crept on to the roof, and stopped up both chimneys with rags. In fact, she did not hear anything again, ever.
It was not until Professor Layman was missed in the dining hall, that Dr.Logge went looking for him, and discovered that the Laymans were no more. He arranged for the bodies of Professor and Mrs. Layman, and the unfortunate Pike, to be carried out during a break in the weather, and laid in the gardener's shed until the authorities could come. Strangely, the nightingale's cage was empty.
It was only a most discerning eye that would notice the little feathers in the furball left behind by a most satisfied cat.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
So I'm pretty sure that Felis Rufa and Smudgetta have both contributed to the identification or lynching of SCUM, so that leaves by elimination only Chelley, whom I therefore nominate.
If I'm wrong about either Felis Rufa or Smudgetta then I think we're stuffed.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Despite my total dislike of cats in general...sneaky, devious, self-serving creatures... splitting the vote at this stage would be suicidal. I'll be going along with the nomination of Miss Chelley.
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
So I'm pretty sure that Felis Rufa and Smudgetta have both contributed to the identification or lynching of SCUM, so that leaves by elimination only Chelley, whom I therefore nominate.
Felis definitely contributed to the identification and lynching of SCUM and that can't have been a clever Vie twist at the time it happened which does counteract my niggle of being caught out by her again! Smudgetta voted for the lynching but as the gardener's cards were pretty marked with most others going for Mumblebore and O'Hocher as first or second or joint first/second choice (including me) then it doesn't exactly show Smudgetta in the same light as the cat.
And she switched to O'Hocher having gone after Mumblebore when the rest of us were still sure of his innocence (before his craziness started to make him look guilty!).
At least you have clarified my thoughts on the cat's innocence... which just leaves the cook. So I nominate Smudgetta (she already made me suspicious anyway and at least that means I'm nominating her on real suspicions and not the niggling grudge at being accused of "riding in the cat's wake"! ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) )
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Smudgie:
Despite my total dislike of cats in general...sneaky, devious, self-serving creatures... splitting the vote at this stage would be suicidal. I'll be going along with the nomination of Miss Chelley.
How convenient! So at this crucial stage you don't care which of us it is, and even though you can't stand the cat you're going to go after me just to make sure someone gets lynched. Slight change of tactic compared with earlier, and when now, as Dafyd put it, "we're stuffed" if we get it wrong!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Oh my. It's getting really quite tense now . . . and nobody around to even develop a ghost-useable corkscrew! One of you might have some consideration for the lot of us and cobble together something based on EVE's old notes—after all, one of you is going to be quite grateful you had the foresight to think ahead before you got lynched!
Pip, pip. Old grudges die with the bodies. Or they would, if someone could fetch me one of those bottles under the third flagstone past the steps under the rose-tinted window—lift it just at the crack where the center pane hits at 1:07 in the afternoon by the college sundial on St. Aethefrith's eve. You can do that for us, right?
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Oh my. It's getting really quite tense now . . . and nobody around to even develop a ghost-useable corkscrew!
Amazing what death can do for you, Mumblebore mused. He felt and looked rejuvenated. And had he known the pleasant company this side of the mirror, he'd've come earlier! Why, even that Oxford SCUM was quite a decent fella once you downed a few bottles with him.
True, the wine was rather on the dry side. He guessed it was because Prof Eliabach had forgotten to dust the skulls before bringing them. Did he think they had feather dusters here? Ah well, probably he was just in a hurry upon his departure. Mumblebore cheerily raised his skull: "To your health, guys, nunc est bibendum!"
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A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509
Posts: 1589 | From: Berlin | Registered: Jul 2007
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvander:
... Oxford SCUM was quite a decent fella once you ...
While it seems to be the witching hour, I was moderately surprised no-one picked up you getting the Universities backwards earlier (I did something similar with forgetting the Conservationists were the bad guys).
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Election time again, Damianites. Your options are:
Dyllis Smudgetta (Smudgie) nominated by Chelley
Chelley nominated by Dai (Dafyd)
TESS
I won't be around Friday night, so I'll give until 8am EST Saturday morning for voting.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
1Chelley
I won't protest my innocence. Sorry Chelley, it was either you or the cat. A non-lynching means a win for the SCUM, at least this way there's a small chance of winning. And if you're not SCUM and that shifty cat is, then it'll just prove I was right all along about that feline race but at least there'll be nobody left to feed her! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
If I understand the voting system it's now effectively decided anyway.
1. Chelley.
2. Smudgetta.
If we're wrong I think we've still got a 1/4 chance of winning.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
As Chelley walked to the gallows, the snow started to melt. Yes, the librarian dunnit, she was SCUM (Mafia). There are no more SCUM in the college. Congratulations, St. Damian's!
...
Harold retired to the wine cellar where, amidst all the broken bottles and blood, a few bottles of excellent champagne still survived. "A toast!"
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
A ghostly sigh of relief was almost perceptible in the Quad. Or perhaps it was just the wind.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
was moderately surprised no-one picked up you getting the Universities backwards earlier
[/i]
Oh. You mean, we were Oxford and they were Cambridge? Good grief, now I feel even more like a blind deaf-mute sleepwalking on the roof. I guess people did pick it up, but it just confirmed their accurate impression that I am not quite there.
Congratulations to us for winning and thank you to Chelley and JFO'H for showing up. Be assured that we ghosts behind the mirror do not bear grudges and you are welcome to join us for a wee dram. And bring a ghostly corkscrew so we can uncork the Beaujolais.
We were a bit lucky in getting JFO'H so early (but then they were lucky in getting our detective so fast) and of course with two mis-hits from SCUM. But despite a little luck I'd say this win for our team goes to a large extent to Dafyd who played superbly and showed how valuable the doctor can be.
The unique voting system was well exploited by Eliabach's idea to nominate everybody in order to allow the detective to leave an inconspicuous trace.
Methinks the rules contributed to making this round more balanced than previous ones or am I overestimating them?
Posts: 1589 | From: Berlin | Registered: Jul 2007
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Hooray for us.
Congratulations to Chelley though for a masterclass in appearing innocent right to the end. And of course congratulations also to La Vie en Rouge for detecting suspicious behaviour in JFH.
I enjoyed the new voting system, although I don't think it played any significant part in the final rounds.
I think the rule that the Doctor can't protect the same person twice in a row is a good one.
I think the Mafia let me get lucky this time. Still, I do think I was better as a doctor than as a guilt-detector.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvander:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
was moderately surprised no-one picked up you getting the Universities backwards earlier
[/i]
Oh. You mean, we were Oxford and they were Cambridge? Good grief, now I feel even more like a blind deaf-mute sleepwalking on the roof. I guess people did pick it up, but it just confirmed their accurate impression that I am not quite there.
Congratulations to us for winning and thank you to Chelley and JFO'H for showing up. Be assured that we ghosts behind the mirror do not bear grudges and you are welcome to join us for a wee dram. And bring a ghostly corkscrew so we can uncork the Beaujolais.
We were a bit lucky in getting JFO'H so early (but then they were lucky in getting our detective so fast) and of course with two mis-hits from SCUM. But despite a little luck I'd say this win for our team goes to a large extent to Dafyd who played superbly and showed how valuable the doctor can be.
The unique voting system was well exploited by Eliabach's idea to nominate everybody in order to allow the detective to leave an inconspicuous trace.
Methinks the rules contributed to making this round more balanced than previous ones or am I overestimating them?
I think Dafyd definitely proved the most valuable player this game. BL also knew precisely when to role-claim, which put me in a tight spot. As I had a tight schedule at the time, it was just as good. I don't think I would have been able to come up with that good a defence. Had Dafyd been wrong the first of the two times, I'm sure the game would have been different. Did you really flip a coin, Dafyd, or was it well planned?
Either way, well done all citizens, and as always, especially La Vie. I've been waiting to get to admit this: as soon as I read your post questioning the two mafioso I listed, my belly turned and twisted. It took me a few seconds to regain control of my literal panic, but then I did. Still don't think I was that convincing - had I just gotten away with that, I felt things could have been very different too.
In general I found it very difficult with so many skilled counterplayers arguing from reason, and I wasn't sure of how I ought to act. With the voting system, it seemed to be easier to clear out sure innocents, which we then had to picket off, but that may have just been me being paranoid and completely lacking self-confidence in my side. Chelley can vouch for that. She played brilliant in my mind, too. She kicked off Lucy, Mumblemore and Heisen Berg and kept me alive for quite a while in the process too. Alone she managed to come very close to a victory, which seems to have eluded her mainly due to the fact that BL survived the first night.
Ah well, thanks all for a good game! I enjoyed it (up until my fatal mistake). La Vie... One day... One day...
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857
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Posted
I forgot: Thank you, Hart, for hosting and all the work involved!
Posts: 1589 | From: Berlin | Registered: Jul 2007
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Seconded! Great work, Hart! Great thinking behind the innovation with the voting system!
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvander:
We were a bit lucky in getting JFO'H so early (but then they were lucky in getting our detective so fast) and of course with two mis-hits from SCUM. But despite a little luck I'd say this win for our team goes to a large extent to Dafyd who played superbly and showed how valuable the doctor can be.
Ah well... nearly made it! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Getting the detective so early was down to JFH's clever workings-out!
I wouldn't quite describe those night actions as 'mis-hits' - we/I hit them hard enough lol, the doctor just wrapped them in cotton wool first! Getting more hits wouldn't have been so hard if we hadn't needed to go for the known innocents so early on. You should have seen all my backtracking to work out if Dafyd was likely to save himself or Banner Lady the first night I hit Banner Lady - Dai... Layman... Dai... Layman... etc but I had to go for one of them or would've stood no chance and I ended up hoping that was the night the doctor saved himself!
Great game, and thanks to all... and to Hart for organising.
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
In general I found it very difficult with so many skilled counterplayers arguing from reason, and I wasn't sure of how I ought to act. With the voting system, it seemed to be easier to clear out sure innocents, which we then had to picket off, but that may have just been me being paranoid and completely lacking self-confidence in my side. Chelley can vouch for that. She played brilliant in my mind, too. She kicked off Lucy, Mumblemore and Heisen Berg and kept me alive for quite a while in the process too. Alone she managed to come very close to a victory, which seems to have eluded her mainly due to the fact that BL survived the first night.
Great game my SCUM friend! And your minor meltdown was pretty funny... we bumped off a fair few of 'em anyway, see!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
In order to clarify what was at one point a relatively well-discussed matter, but more so to show off, here are the reasonings that were posted with Chelley regarding Mr. Morse:
quote:
Evidence A:
AA is quiet and out of the regular.
Evidence B:
AA is the only one with a high-profile last on his list.
Evidence C:
He used a particularly shoddy logic for this.
Evidence D:
He has role-claimed and hidden this by "role-claiming the wine cellar guy". (Re-read his response to iF:s role-claiming, which I also believe to be true.)
Evidence E:
Smudgie is silent but clever - note how she believed AA on his words though she hid this by placing him high on the lists yet not so high as to have hime executed. She didn't want to execute neither iF nor AA; she believed they both play important parts. It's not just me.
Some of these things were wrong (like Smudgie protecting AA from lynching - in fact she only protected iF, but still), but it was obvious enough IMO. If you're reading this, Eliab, I think you're quite wrong in your theory that most detectives will study the silent ones. I'd reason, and have reasoned in the past, that as a detective it's important to clear the ones that possibly will lead the investigations. Also, recent experience have shown that even our brightest can be duped. Either way, that was what we thought AA would think.
One I must say came as a complete surprise to me was when BL turned out to be the prankster. That came completely out of the blue and shook me pretty bad. I didn't know how to respond, whether to fake something, or just let it be. I also hadn't thought about how obvious it would be when no one was killed the night before that the prankster was innocent. I was also the one silenced, so it all got quite tricky. Never really figured it out, and got voted off the day after. Well played, BL!
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I always feel sorry for those who bite the dust early - especially when the game is such an interesting one. Hart, if that was "a fairly vanilla" mafia game, then I'm all for vanilla. I thought your rules worked really well.
I could have cheerfully throttled Dai myself, at the point where he admitted which of us he'd been protecting the previous night; and right up to the end I wasn't sure if it would be Chelley or La vie.
Well played, and a lovely setting orchestrated by Hart.
I have a new game (set in a tropical retreat in the Antipodes) ready to go in January for those who are interested in playing again soon. I liked Hart's voting system very much - any comments from others?
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I could go for a new game if it's in January. I'd like some more thoughts regarding the effects on this voting system if there had been a traitor involved in the game. Even with the sheriff out, the game seemed difficult for two mafioso, but that might have been due to the doctor, too. What did others think about the balance of the game?
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Oh, and congratulations to Dai, who, as the last remaining academic at St.Damian's must be a shoo-in for the Master's job!
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I could go for a new game if it's in January. I'd like some more thoughts regarding the effects on this voting system if there had been a traitor involved in the game. Even with the sheriff out, the game seemed difficult for two mafioso, but that might have been due to the doctor, too. What did others think about the balance of the game?
It ended in a bitter finish, which is a positive sign. The problem with balance is that a tiny event can make a huge difference.
Didn't have much chance to see the effect of voting...and in one game we're hardly likely to see all the subtleties (we saw one with the detective indicating and the mafia catching on).
I had one idea for a variation, and that's where you have no detective role...but you all get to see stuff and the mafia have to (vaguely like cludo) I'm not sure how what rules you'd need (perhaps each person could be given a duty eg. the cook to go to the kitchen in every 5 turns)
and how to make it simple to roleplay/judge. But I'd be curious of any thoughts.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Thanks all for playing. I'm glad the rules seemed to work well. It's hard to judge balance on one game, but the close finish suggests it was fine. I thought the voting system gave quite a big advantage to the town, so I kept the roles weak.
A couple of changes I thought about, but didn't want to switch halfway through:
1) I was disappointed with the voting system on the day when two people tied and no-one got lynched, despite TESS having being pretty low on everyone's ranking. With a small number of voters, any voting system is going to give ties reasonably often (sometimes deliberately in this game). A solution I thought of is that in that situation the GM should randomly pick one of them to execute, as the voters don't have any (collective) preference as to which of them dies but do have a collective preference that there should be an election.
2) I'm not sure that I see the purpose of a nomination phase if you have preference voting. Why not just have everyone also up for voting every time? You might then want some time for discussion before anyone casts a vote.
Apart from that, I think things went well and it was fun to watch the game evolve when I knew everyone's subterfuge. I had to stop myself from jumping into the discussions, though!
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Thank you to Hart for running.
I think the tie in voting was fine. Anything short of requiring a strict majority will give that possibility. The last person to vote has more of an advantage in deciding what happens than usual, but that makes it more interesting.
I think it's a good idea to have a discussion phase if not a nomination phase. I forgot to have one in the first round of the Don Cannelloni game and I don't think the result went well.
One thing I'd like to suggest is that there's a free lynching in the first round. That is, the first person lynched is only incapacitated for a turn but does have their role revealed. Obviously this would help the majority a lot so you'd want to have an extra mafia player or some other aid to the mafia (not adding extra majority roles). It would omit the rather unsatisfactory first round lynching on no information.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Had Dafyd been wrong the first of the two times, I'm sure the game would have been different. Did you really flip a coin, Dafyd, or was it well planned?
That first time with Eliab I overruled the die. The second time I went with the random roll. I'm still going to claim credit for setting up the probabilities for the roll correctly.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
I could have cheerfully throttled Dai myself, at the point where he admitted which of us he'd been protecting the previous night; and right up to the end I wasn't sure if it would be Chelley or La vie.
See, that's what I didn't get. Surely the mob already knew who he'd been protecting, because they knew that whoever they'd tried to kill (you) was the person he must have been protecting?
Yes, there was no revelation - we knew who had been protected when they didn't die!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Congratulations to Chelley though for a masterclass in appearing innocent right to the end. And of course congratulations also to La Vie en Rouge for detecting suspicious behaviour in JFH.
It's my trusting face (always stuck in a book)!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
hart, thank you so much for running the game.
My apologies to Lucy, whom I suspected from the very start, for totally misjudging you and for slipping a bit of extra pepper in your soup. Mumbledore, you may not have been SCUM but you deserved everything you got
Congratulations to the doctor - I don't think we could have done it without you.
I like the voting system a lot and would definitely like to see it used again. I don't like too complicated a range of roles, so particularly enjoyed this game: though it was funny/frustrating to see a vote I made in an utter rush between two crazy mind-destroying shifts at work be analysed so thoroughly!
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Smudgie:
I like the voting system a lot and would definitely like to see it used again. I don't like too complicated a range of roles, so particularly enjoyed this game: though it was funny/frustrating to see a vote I made in an utter rush between two crazy mind-destroying shifts at work be analysed so thoroughly!
Well it was about all there was to go on!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I feel quite smug about spotting JFH. He's right that the give away was "we know there are two killers". Apart from that I thought you put up a pretty good defence, actually.
OTOH, I did think Sylvander looked very, very guilty. Partly because of voting in a way that made Mumblebore and Jeremiah functionally equivalent, and partly because of going on about me when I knew I was innocent. I guess you really are just barking mad and inattentive ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I also liked the rule about the doctor not being able to defend the same person twice.
(I wasn't making it up about being busy - the NaNoMonster has been successfully fed ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) , tonight we're playing the Bach cantata, and I've been catching murderers. No, I have not practised the Nielsen symphony. )
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Sylvander
Shipmate
# 12857
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
It's hard to judge balance on one game, but the close finish suggests it was fine. I thought the voting system gave quite a big advantage to the town, so I kept the roles weak.
I thought the game well balanced; Hart There will always be an element of luck involved.
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
1) I was disappointed with the voting system on the day when two people tied and no-one got lynched, despite TESS having being pretty low on everyone's ranking.
Disagree, M'lord. This effective TESS vote was very informative, it cleared Smudgie right to the end. It would be a pity to deprive the game of these moments where a late-voting player is forced to reveal something.
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
A solution I thought of is that in that situation the GM should randomly pick one of them to execute, as the voters don't have any (collective) preference as to which of them dies but do have a collective preference that there should be an election.
I prefer it the way you ran it now.
I also feel justified for saying that random lynchings on day one are not a good idea when there is a detective (and a frustration to the player lynched). The key is to publicly agree on a safe method for the detective to hide and this was suggested by Eliab. (Although the method could be improved - I understand JFO'H was able to identify the detective. I draw my hat to that!)
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I feel quite smug about spotting JFH. He's right that the give away was "we know there are two killers".
I still don't get that, la vie. I was absolutely certain there could be no more than two killers and I said so. Why suspect JFO'H for saying something that is obvious and others said before him? I always understood yours as one of the necessarily random accusations at this stage – one has to provide some reason, but it is usually a flimsy one (but occasionally hits the target). What made JFH’s statement look different from mine (and possibly others who agreed)?
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Evidence C:
He used a particularly shoddy logic for this.
Evidence D:
I discourage this approach. If that was a criterion I'd be declared dead before the start of the game.
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Oh, and congratulations to Dai, who, as the last remaining academic at St.Damian's must be a shoo-in for the Master's job!
What troubles me, is that he is also the last man in the college...
quote:
Originally posted by Smudgie:
Mumbledore, you may not have been SCUM but you deserved everything you got
Oi! Ref! She's kicking me on the shin after the game's over, how ungracious! AND it’s Mumblebore, if you please, Madam (nomen est omen). Wait till I next come to London, you bouncy-ball-kind-of-a-bird, so you can see what pepper in wine tastes like IRL!
But I admit I felt I was not lynched for looking guilty but for being a bit annoying. Fair enough, I hope I wasn't tooo bad. Still, I’d have silenced me much earlier.
What does OTOH mean?
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A martyr is someone living with a saint.
2509
Posts: 1589 | From: Berlin | Registered: Jul 2007
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvander:
What does OTOH mean?
On the other hand.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
What a fun game! Well played us (and well-played the SCUM, too).
I don't think the SCUM made any real mistakes - and I think we made two, one of which was mine. For my death-bed prediction, I should have stuck with my first instinct that of the three possible suspects, Felis, Chelley and Lucy, it was Chelley who should go first. I was too swayed by Gwai's mistake in swapping her name for jfh's - which might have been a plausibly guilty error, but went against my reading that Lucy was acting innocently and Chelley merely trying to.
The other mistake was lynching Mumbledore, for which I deny all responsibility. I was more certain of his innocence than anyone else's at that point.
Dafyd's skilled doctoring (I'm betting he's an absolute demon at Rock Paper Scissors) made all that irrelevant, though, and gave us the two nights needed to get it right.
I liked the voting system, but I'll give fair warning that if we play it again, I'm going to use the ‘nominate everyone" option a lot more. I wish I'd thought of it sooner this time, because then I could have put the detective on notice, and not left him stuck with a fucking necromancer as his "most obviously innocent". Sorry about that - but it worked out OK in the end.
On which point:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
If you're reading this, Eliab, I think you're quite wrong in your theory that most detectives will study the silent ones. I'd reason, and have reasoned in the past, that as a detective it's important to clear the ones that possibly will lead the investigations.
I've argued in the past that the detective's job is to maximise information, and that is (usually) best done by investigating the people you know nothing about (moving from no knowledge to complete knowledge) rather than the gobby (about whom you already know something). But then I am definitely of the view that a Mafia game is a problem that can potentially be solved by analysis, and that the detective is primarily useful in narrowing the field of suspects. The gameplay objective, in my view, is to get to the point where there are more known innocents than suspects, because that's a straight win, rather than necessarily spotting the guilty straight off - which is harder.
I think that the detective ought to be concentrating on staying alive to the point where they can say "I'm innocent, so are A & B, and if someone else is going to claim to be the doctor, we have a majority". That's more certain, and just as much a victory, as saying "I'm the detective and C & D are guilty". We didn't exploit the new voting system to the full in trying to get to that result - we should have globally nominated from the off, and everyone should have listed a plausible last vote as a deception play to shield the detective. Next time.
I think Ernst Viktor Eliabach has to have been my most unpleasant Mafia character ever. I enjoyed playing him a lot.
Thanks to Hart for running the game.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Right, so let me see if I have this right as a good mix:
3 non-mafia roles:
the detective, who can investigate one character each night action; the doctor, who can protect one character each night, but not the same person two nights in a row; and the prankster, who can prevent a character from voting, but not the same person two nights in a row.
3 mafia roles:
the mafia leader, who nominates the hit each night; the mobster; and the traitor, who may choose to change sides in order to win.
An unlimited voting system, where one or all may be nominated.
A two day turn around in real time for actions to be taken.
What do you think?
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Some of that depends on how many people you have sign up. I remember once reading advice that at least 50% of the players should be normal citizens.
As for the traitor, a traitor who can switch from Town to Mafia once can work, but not vice versa (otherwise you have a citizen who knows precisely who the mafia are). A role like this could be pretty powerful for the mob. If you have enough players, that balances that out. If not, you could let the detective detect the traitor as a balance. Or, you could try out the idea of an 'outing' rather than a 'lynching' on the first day.
As for timing, I don't know if this is necessary, but I counted a two-day weekend as one day for the purposes of the two-day rule. (So, starting something Friday morning means finishing Monday morning).
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvander:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I feel quite smug about spotting JFH. He's right that the give away was "we know there are two killers".
I still don't get that, la vie. I was absolutely certain there could be no more than two killers and I said so. Why suspect JFO'H for saying something that is obvious and others said before him? I always understood yours as one of the necessarily random accusations at this stage – one has to provide some reason, but it is usually a flimsy one (but occasionally hits the target). What made JFH’s statement look different from mine (and possibly others who agreed)?
Jeremiah already smelled suspicious to me - the accusation of Mrs. Layman looked like an opportunistic attempt to off an unknown. I couldn't be sure reason he was innocent, but he was giving me no good reason to think him innocent either. The two killers thing was the tip-off that I was right.
The difference between mafia and innocents is knowledge - the innocent can only strongly suspect, while the guilty know. Jason and Dai had both been speculating about three killers, so the bald statement "we know that there are only two" stood out. Incidentally it's another reason I thought you were an accomplice i.e. stating as common knowledge something that only the guilty can be completely certain of.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
I arrived at JFH by process of elimination. It seemed to me pretty much impossible for Smudgetta or Mumbledore to be guilty, and I thought that Lucy wasn't, and that is was most unlikely that Felis and Chelley both were. O'Hocher was the only one left.
I should have stuck with that analysis in the next round, rather than follow up an (as it turned out) innocent mistake.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
I think Ernst Viktor Eliabach has to have been my most unpleasant Mafia character ever. I enjoyed playing him a lot.
Really? I think the last one was - but then I would wouldn't I!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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