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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The authority of the Catholic Church
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
0 / 2 / ...
I knew I could rely on you mate. Yes I am. No less than you. No more second class than you. And therefore, actually LESS.
As more is LESS.
I'll whine my broken works with broken Roman Catholics in a world of them as long as you flaunt your sin as Sodom.
You surely are a GREAT Roman Catholic IngoB ...
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
IngoB,
You seem to be saying that (at the "rules of the club" level) the Pope has the power to write a new page in the book of Tradition, but there is a real condition that it has to be an application or elaboration of a theme that is clearly present on previous pages.
Best Wishes,
Russ
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
You seem to be saying that (at the "rules of the club" level) the Pope has the power to write a new page in the book of Tradition, but there is a real condition that it has to be an application or elaboration of a theme that is clearly present on previous pages.
Something like that, yes. However, perhaps a better analogy would be the old Dutch masters, who were as good at business as at painting. They would do the particular significant parts of a painting (e.g., faces) themselves, but leave much of the canvas-filling to their apprentices, many of whom were even specialised (one apprentice mostly does the animals, the other clouds...). For that rest of the painting the master would just provide a rough sketch. The Dutch master is of course God, and the apprentices are the bishops (and indeed all the faithful) in their regular workings. An ex cathedra is then in this analogy when the lead apprentice attempts a significant part of the painting (say, some face the master didn't execute) under the watchful eye of the master, who will interfere if it doesn't come out to his liking. Now, if you know a lot about paintings, you may well be able to tell apart the workings of the master and those of his workshop crew. You may even be able to point at a particular face and say: this is by that master student, not by the master himself. But most people will just look at the painting and say "what a beautiful Rembrandt." Both ways of looking at the picture are right in their own way.
My point is that all this is a lot more "organic" than a rule book. An ex cathedra is something special, but not something different. It is one extreme of what a pope regularly is busy with. And it is not isolated. Context is everything, always, in Catholicism. It really is a lot like the master student saying to the master "Can I try doing this face here, please, sir? I know just what you had in mind for that..."
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
And what happens if one day the master goes for a walk in the mountains and doesn't come back ?
For a while, no doubt, the apprentices carry on as best they can, expecting his imminent return. But at some point they have to face up to the probability that he won't come back.
There several ways the story can go from there. If it is the sort of comedy that gently pokes fun at foolish and greedy men, they will pretend that he is gravely ill in a back room, unable to see visitors, but still supervising the work, and go on selling paintings with the master's name on, initially working from sketches that he has left, and gradually developing their style and skills until they are a very professional gang of forgers.
If they are honest and faithful, they will wish to keep the studio running as the master wished, learn from what he has taught them, make his style and his genius known to all the world. The result may be quite similar; the difference is that they will scrupulously distinguish what is and is not his work.
You seem to want to blur that boundary, that touchstone of who are the honest men and who are the scoundrels.
Best wishes,
Russ
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
And what happens if one day the master goes for a walk in the mountains and doesn't come back ?
Since the master has thoughtfully provided the apprentices with a substitute advisor of equal artistic talent, there are no major problems with continuing the work until he returns.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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