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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: A 2012 US election thread
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
We Americans love a divided government, The best way to do that is elect a Democratic congress and president
Ah, yes. "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Democrats
Last week I heard a talk radio personality refer to a certain subset of Libertarians as 'Branch Paulinians'.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Janine:
Hee. Cute.
I figure this Huff article explains one aspect of why we've been so interested & motivated to keep scrambling for delegates.
Political junkies hope every four years that there is going to be a floor fight, but every four years, the convention turns into a four-night long advertisement for the candidate. If this campaign remains as close as it has been through convention time (and I see no reason why it won't- despite several news-grabbing announcements by the Obama administration, his numbers remain pretty steady), the GOP will find a way to appease Paul supporters on the platform, and prevent a scene at the convention. The strategy is clear- any time Romney spends not talking about the deficit or the fact that unemployment is still over 8 percent is time wasted.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the key provisions of the PP&ACA (a.k.a. health care reform or "Obamacare") as Constitutional. (Opinion here [PDF].) On the one hand, this will enrage and motivate Republican voters. On the other hand, it leaves intact one of Obama's signature accomplishments, and Romney is in a singularly weak position to argue that such plans are unConstitutional infringements of personal liberty. How do you see this affecting the November election?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I think the one big thing the Republicans can use here is that SCOTUS upheld the individual mandate under Congress' ability to levy taxes, not under its right to regulate interstate commerce. They will scream "OMG!!! NEW TAX!!!11!" I would bet the rent that right now the Obama strategists are trying to figure out how they market this win to swing voters in swing states. The difficulty here is that they don't have a simple slogan - they've got to explain how a rather complicated law is going to make people's lives better.
Romney can't say this is unconstitutional, and every time he says he's against it, Obama can say Romney was for it before he was against it. Romney has been saying he'll have the law repealed if elected, but he has put forward no plan to reform how we access healthcare -- which is fine with the Tea Party, but won't sell to anyone else. So he'd best stick with "OMG!!! NEW TAX!!!"
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I would bet the rent that right now the Obama strategists are trying to figure out how they market this win to swing voters in swing states. The difficulty here is that they don't have a simple slogan - they've got to explain how a rather complicated law is going to make people's lives better.
This is absolutely right. Health care reform polls pretty close to 50-50 at this point, with a slight edge disapproving. The ruling may give health care approval a slight bump, but unless Obama can convince the country that it does good things, we are right back at the election turning on the October jobs report.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I would bet the rent that right now the Obama strategists are trying to figure out how they market this win to swing voters in swing states. The difficulty here is that they don't have a simple slogan - they've got to explain how a rather complicated law is going to make people's lives better.
This is absolutely right. Health care reform polls pretty close to 50-50 at this point, with a slight edge disapproving. The ruling may give health care approval a slight bump, but unless Obama can convince the country that it does good things, we are right back at the election turning on the October jobs report.
I suspect that the big win for Obama in this is that he looks competent for a change. He's been looking pretty feckless for a while, and actually managing to accomplish something that he set as a very high priority will probably play pretty well with folks who may or may not care either way about health care. In truth, the plan itself is so mediocre that it probably plays better with folks who don't care about health care...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
How do you see this affecting the November election?
Who knows? The Romney campaign can now run ads saying that the Supreme Court has declared Obama has lied to the American people. Will it really matter to us?
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I would bet the rent that right now the Obama strategists are trying to figure out how they market this win to swing voters in swing states. The difficulty here is that they don't have a simple slogan - they've got to explain how a rather complicated law is going to make people's lives better.
This is absolutely right. Health care reform polls pretty close to 50-50 at this point, with a slight edge disapproving. The ruling may give health care approval a slight bump, but unless Obama can convince the country that it does good things, we are right back at the election turning on the October jobs report.
The problem being that the real positive impact, the real game-changers, of Affordable Health Care don't kick in until '14. That was necessary to get it passed-- the GOP is, sadly, no one's fool when it comes to political strategy. But it means that most Americans aren't feeling any benefit and some are even feeling some pain (our patriotic private insurers have boosted rates in advance of the '14 roll-outs-- making hay while they still can). So it comes down to having to say "trust me"-- which doesn't play well with American voters these days.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
That was necessary to get it passed-- the GOP is, sadly, no one's fool when it comes to political strategy.
I might be missing what you are saying here- why was the 2014 delay necessary to get it passed?
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
That was necessary to get it passed-- the GOP is, sadly, no one's fool when it comes to political strategy.
I might be missing what you are saying here- why was the 2014 delay necessary to get it passed?
One of many compromises Obama made to get it passed ( too many compromises IMHO). It was appealing to the GOP because the benefits of Obama's legislation wouldn't be felt until after the election (not that they ended up voting for it... again, brilliant, if evil, strategists)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
That was necessary to get it passed-- the GOP is, sadly, no one's fool when it comes to political strategy.
I might be missing what you are saying here- why was the 2014 delay necessary to get it passed?
One of many compromises Obama made to get it passed ( too many compromises IMHO). It was appealing to the GOP because the benefits of Obama's legislation wouldn't be felt until after the election (not that they ended up voting for it... again, brilliant, if evil, strategists)
So even though he didn't need a single Republican vote to pass the thing, he decided to offer these concessions to the GOP. They didn't accept the offer. But the Democratic Congress passed the bill with the concessions in anyway, out of the goodness of their hearts? Either I am still missing something, or this Obama fellow isn't the savvy politician people have told me he is.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
Did anyone notice a couple of interesting details in the WSJ/NBC poll released Wednesday? In the 12 "battleground" states, Obama leads Romney 50%-42% (quite a bit larger lead than nationwide). And, perhaps more telling, in those 12 states, Romney is viewed "favorably" by fewer than 1/3 of voters. Frankly, I sense that Romney faces a huge uphill climb to get to the needed electoral college votes.
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
Posts: 386 | From: Between two big lakes | Registered: Apr 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
So even though he didn't need a single Republican vote to pass the thing, he decided to offer these concessions to the GOP. They didn't accept the offer. But the Democratic Congress passed the bill with the concessions in anyway, out of the goodness of their hearts? Either I am still missing something, or this Obama fellow isn't the savvy politician people have told me he is.
Negotiation is his strong suit-- and all of us tend to lean on our strong suits. After the disaster of Bush's alpha male administration, the idea of true unifier who could bring bipartisan action was appealing to voters.
Unfortunately, that turned out to be a pipe dream. The GOP closed ranks around Norquist's blackmailing "no taxes brand" and refused to compromise on anything.
Most of us liberals are disappointed that Obama stayed as long at the table as he did, and gave away too much in the process. Indeed, if he'd seen the Norquist/Rove handwriting on the wall sooner and simply gone with a strong Democratic bill, he could have passed it while Sen. Kennedy was still living (when Dems had a "super majority"), which would have resulted in better legislation. And would have allowed Sen, Kennedy to die knowing he had accomplished something he's worked his entire career for.
But shoulda woulda coulda. It still is landmark legislation and a remarkable accomplishment.
[ 28. June 2012, 21:13: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
[QUOTE]]Most of us liberals are disappointed that Obama stayed as long at the table as he did, and gave away too much in the process. Indeed, if he'd seen the Norquist/Rove handwriting on the wall sooner and simply gone with a strong Democratic bill, he could have passed it while Sen. Kennedy was still living (when Dems had a "super majority"), which would have resulted in better legislation.
Given that Ben Nelson joined the filibuster of the watered down bill, I don't know that it would have played out this way.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
[QUOTE]]Most of us liberals are disappointed that Obama stayed as long at the table as he did, and gave away too much in the process. Indeed, if he'd seen the Norquist/Rove handwriting on the wall sooner and simply gone with a strong Democratic bill, he could have passed it while Sen. Kennedy was still living (when Dems had a "super majority"), which would have resulted in better legislation.
Given that Ben Nelson joined the filibuster of the watered down bill, I don't know that it would have played out this way.
Well, there you go then. So perhaps pretty savvy after all, even if somewhat disappointing.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
Interesting poll results.
quote:
With Obama facing re-election in November, 65 percent said Obama would be more adept than Romney to respond to an alien invasion, with women and younger Americans more likely than men and over-65s to agree with that prospect.
No word on polling results for Bill Pullman vs. Jack Nicholson.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
It make sense that an alien would best respond to an alien invasion. Since Obama is not natural born......... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The silly season has started early this year.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
When you are responsible for proposing tax policy and enacting it into law, offshore accounts look like sleaze and hypocrisy. Such behaviour demonstrates astoundingly poor judgment for a person who wants to be President. Candidates' tax returns are always commented upon.
Romney didn't know that the price of the Presidency is five years' worth of clean, boring tax returns with nothing more complicated than an IRA? ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Romney didn't know that the price of the Presidency is five years' worth of clean, boring tax returns with nothing more complicated than an IRA?
Even Romney's IRA is rather more interesting than it should be.
"How did Romney build a $102 million Individual Retirement Account (IRA)? Did he avoid paying taxes in doing so? During Romney’s fifteen years at Bain Capital taxpayers were allowed to put only $2,000 annually into IRAs and $30,000 into another fund. Romney won’t say how his account generated such astronomical returns."
Astronomical returns usually aren't a good sign. Ask Bernie Madoff.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
There they go again.
The media begins what will no doubt be its very intrusive and extensive investigation of the Republican candidate but when it comes to investigating Obama the crickets are chirping.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Since Romney is running, at least in part, on his record as a businessman, it seems like that record should be up for inspection and discussion. Given that, this seems important.
But I wonder if it really is. Do people really want to know whether Romney is a genius or a crook? Do they care?
They may reflect on another genius-cum-crook POTUS from c 40 years ago.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
There they go again.
The media begins what will no doubt be its very intrusive and extensive investigation of the Republican candidate but when it comes to investigating Obama the crickets are chirping.
You mean when it comes to investigating Obama it was done four years ago, and the best mud people have found to throw was the birth certificate?
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
The media begins what will no doubt be its very intrusive and extensive investigation of the Republican candidate ...
Are you interested in knowing what they find about the Republican candidate? Is there anything they could find out that would interest you, or that would cause you reconsider whether you want to vote for him?
That's a serious question, by the way. I'm interested in the answer. It seems to me that some folks really don't want any more information about their preferred candidates. They've made up their minds, and they're done. I find that really interesting, and a little puzzling.
But choosing a candidate isn't that different from choosing a brand of soap -- you get the amount of info you need to make a choice (and for some, "it's what my parents always bought" is enough info), and after that, you don't look for more info. You just buy that brand. And if someone wants to tell you all the reasons that some other soap is better, you may well think you've got better uses of your time than to try to think through and verify any more information, and all that work isn't likely to change anything anyway, because this soap is working for you just fine, thankyouverymuch.
So maybe it's not so puzzling. If you've decided that all you need to know about the Republican candidate is that he's the Republican candidate, then you're not going to be interested in things like the Atlantic investigative piece.
But is that the case, New Yorker? Are you at all interested in learning more about Romney's background? If not, why not?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Josephine:
Serious question? Serious answer: yes and no.
Here's what I mean by that. If the media are just going to rehash dirt about what a cruel business man he was, I could care less. If they were to find some horrible crime in his past - a murder or two - then of course I'd care.
What about you? Don't you think the media should vet Obama?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Josephine:
Serious question? Serious answer: yes and no.
Here's what I mean by that. If the media are just going to rehash dirt about what a cruel business man he was, I could care less. If they were to find some horrible crime in his past - a murder or two - then of course I'd care.
If you read the Atlantic article, it's not about "what a cruel business man he was." It's about evidence (not proof,but evidence) that his blind trusts that may not be blind, that he paid less tax than he owed by using off-shore tax havens, by deliberately undervaluing investments put into an IRA, that he used his investments to bet against the US. That sort of thing.
So, short of murder. But far more than just "he laid a bunch of people off at companies that he invested in."
Do you think his financial ethics matter?
quote:
What about you? Don't you think the media should vet Obama?
Of course they should. And they have. So far, "His pastor said some impolitic things" and "He's not really an American" seem to be all they could come up with. And the latter isn't even true.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Was what he did illegal? If so, he can cite the Rangel precedent and just say "sorry." Or the Geithner precedent and not even apologize.
I disagree with you about the media investigating Obama. The conservative bloggers have but that's about it. It just hasn't been done by the main stream media. They have just ignored his past. Now it's finally coming out that at least some of what he wrote in his autobiography was a lie and they continue to ignore it.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Was what he did illegal? If so, he can cite the Rangel precedent and just say "sorry." Or the Geithner precedent and not even apologize.
My question was, do you think his financial ethics matter?
I'll add some more: For our elected officials, do financial ethics matter in general? Do they matter more if the candidate is running based on their financial experience?
Whether or not Romney has ever crossed the line into illegal behavior, is it enough for a person who is running for president to not have committed a crime? Or should a candidate for president be held to a higher ethical standard than merely "it wasn't illegal"?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
I think we should hold public servants to the highest ethical standard. I also think that may be unrealistic.
I have no indication that Romney has ever been anything except ethical in all his actions.
Obama, not ethical at all.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Will anything open your eyes?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Now it's finally coming out that at least some of what he wrote in his autobiography was a lie and they continue to ignore it.
What was in Obama's autobiography that is a lie?
By the way Romney could have been unethical while remaining inside the law.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I think we should hold public servants to the highest ethical standard. I also think that may be unrealistic.
I have no indication that Romney has ever been anything except ethical in all his actions.
Obama, not ethical at all.
Please name the specific charges against Obama, aside from the birth certificate conspiracy theories, which aren't any more true than Bush and Cheney plotting the 9/11 attacks.
And Romney appears to have committed some financial improprieties with respect to his IRA and some offshore banking as well as the possible voter fraud.
I'm sure any and all mud will be cast against both candidates in the remaining months. We'll see what sticks and what doesn't. Fortunately, for most voters, what matters are the economy and financial policies of their chosen candidate and not the rabid partisan charges that the fringe of each party make.
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I think we should hold public servants to the highest ethical standard. I also think that may be unrealistic.
Fair enough.
quote:
I have no indication that Romney has ever been anything except ethical in all his actions.
Did you read the article from The Atlantic that I linked to? Do you think they made it all up? Or is there some reason that you don't see it as an "indication" that Romney may have been less than ethical in some of his actions?
quote:
Obama, not ethical at all.
Specifics, please. He's made some decisions that I don't like, but I can't, at the moment, think of any actions that I would consider unethical. If you know of some, please let me know. Links to verifiable sources would be nice.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
There they go again.
You reminded me of the Mondale/Reagan debate. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Or, how to win even when you kind of botch the line.
And God bless Walter - what a trooper. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Not sure why people let Reagan get away with that as it's usually what someone comes up with when they don't have a valid argument. Sad to say, I voted for Reagan twice. He was a good actor.
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
Josephine:
Mind you, you're addressing same guy who expressed support for Gingrich and Santorum on this very thread, both of whom were sanctioned for numerous and serious ethical violations, not by the media, but by Congress.
Santorum was named one of the 3 most corrupt congresspersons for 2 years in a row. He has been investigated by the IRS, Federal Election Commission, Federal Ethics Commission and state and local agencies in Pennsylvania at various times whilst Congressperson. The investigations stopped when he was voted out of office by the most lopsided vote in PA history.
Gingrich's ethical violations are well known. He was sanctioned by the Federal Ethics Commission, admitted he repeatedly violated ethics rules while speaker and was forced to resign due to a putsch by members of his own party.
He also has expressed support for Rick Perry who has been fined and sanctioned, repeatedly for his ethical violations again, not by the media but by the GOP-established Texas Ethics Commission.
[ 05. July 2012, 00:59: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
There they go again.
You reminded me of the Mondale/Reagan debate.
Or, how to win even when you kind of botch the line.
And God bless Walter - what a trooper.
Not sure why people let Reagan get away with that as it's usually what someone comes up with when they don't have a valid argument. Sad to say, I voted for Reagan twice. He was a good actor.
A top drawer actor as a politician, but a mediocre actor as an actor.
[ 05. July 2012, 01:14: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Here's a brief summary of Obama's lies in his autobiography.
Josephine, why do I think he's unethical? Because his view on a certain Dead Horse issue is so extreme that I could not consider anyone with such views ethical.
Dan, I did support Santorum and Gingrich, but don't recall supporting Perry.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Here's a brief summary of Obama's lies in his autobiography.
Brief is the word. SO vague in detail that I'm actually finding it difficult to precisely identify what it's saying.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
The "lies" of Obama listed in the article really seem to be about his grandfather not really being a prisoner and tortured during the Mau Mau rebellion. This is a question of family history and I can tell you family history is sometimes wrong. Did Obama think this was true when he wrote it? If he did so what.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
Newsbusters is your source? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) They make World News Daily look fair and impartial.
It's a bit of an lightweight article. It talks about "many factual inconsistencies" between the two books but most are based on what the always-trustworthy Rush Limbaugh says happened or didn't happen, rather than actual quote references with page and paragraph number (you know, so we can compare them ourselves.) In fact, there is actually no documentation of these inconsistencies - no page numbers, footnotes or anything. Nice hit piece though.
And disagreement with you on a moral issue doesn't make one unethical.
[ 05. July 2012, 02:43: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
The article cites not even one single instance of where the President has violated the law or done something unethical.
Manipulating childhood memories in order to make a book more interesting (he wasn't writing for the friggin' Encyclopedia Britannica, now, was he?) is hardly on a par with claiming you are a resident of a state where you in fact do not maintain a residence, in order to be able to vote in that state.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Here's a brief summary of Obama's lies in his autobiography.
Brief is the word. SO vague in detail that I'm actually finding it difficult to precisely identify what it's saying.
It seems to be based on this list by Andrew Kaczynski.
The first two seem to be family stories, which were undoubtedly told to him second hand and may or may not have been embellished somewhere in the communications chain. I know how family stories work in my family and the details don't always line up when I hear them from different relatives.
The third doesn't actually seem to be false, but he used a different name, perhaps to protect her identity.
The rest seem to be "he-said/she-said" discrepancies. [shrugs]
Hardly bombshells IMHO. If it was GW Bush's biography, it wouldn't turn them into one either, as far as I'm concerned.
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
Obama actually said in his autobiography that some of the characters were composites, etc. He was quite clear that he was writing about the personal meaning of events for his growth, not doing journalistic reporting of the facts.
Since American conservatives have pretty much written off the very idea of factuality (Leonard Pitts lays it out better than I could), it's pretty cheesy for them to complain about things that wouldn't have made any difference anyway (do you believe Obama got elected because people believed his grandfather was tortured?).
Romney, OTOH, is trying to get elected on his business record while, if not actually lying in the strictest sense, trying very hard to mislead about its significance. Which is worse?
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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