Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: A 2012 US election thread
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
So: we have a man who both did and did not run a company that specialised in shipping US jobs out of the country; who cannot remeber what he said yesterday; who believes in hotting up the Cold War; who blames the oppressed for their oppression, while bleating about freedom; who understands NASCAR because he knows some owners; who supported health care for most before he didn't support health care for most, while attacking another man for supporting the same form of health care that he did; ...well, the list goes on.
Oh, and has no discernable policy... on just about anything.
Please enlighten me about what makes him fit to be the President, beyond great teeth. [ 01. August 2012, 20:03: Message edited by: Horseman Bree ]
-------------------- It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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PataLeBon
Shipmate
# 5452
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Horseman Bree: So: we have a man who both did and did not run a company that specialised in shipping US jobs out of the country; who cannot remeber what he said yesterday; who believes in hotting up the Cold War; who blames the oppressed for their oppression, while bleating about freedom; who understands NASCAR because he knows some owners; who supported health care for most before he didn't support health care for most, while attacking another man for supporting the same form of health care that he did; ...well, the list goes on.
Oh, and has no discernable policy... on just about anything.
Please enlighten me about what makes him fit to be the President, beyond great teeth.
Because he's not Obama!
My own problem is watching the economic meltdown(s) in Europe, I still don't understand why we're still talking about austerity here.
Why would it work here, when it's obviously NOT working there??
-------------------- That's between you and your god. Oh, wait a minute. You are your god. That's a problem. - Jack O'Neill (Stargate SG1)
Posts: 1907 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by PataLeBon: My own problem is watching the economic meltdown(s) in Europe, I still don't understand why we're still talking about austerity here.
Why would it work here, when it's obviously NOT working there??
Well, Greece is in a mess because it's been spending far more than it earns for years and, because of being in the Euro, can't devalue its currency to bring in more foreign investment.
Spain's problems are mainly caused by a massive property bubble which, now the property market is crashing, has left all the Spanish banks that lent money for property purchases in a great big hole.
And the rest of Europe is suffering a knock-on effect (or fear of...) due to the banks having all lent money to one another.
That's my take, anyway.
-------------------- My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Now the word is out that the real reason why Romney will not release his taxes for the past ten years is because they would show he did not pay any taxes for those years!
Mitt, there is one way to put this rumor to rest. Release the tax forms!
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Og, King of Bashan
 Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: Now the word is out that the real reason why Romney will not release his taxes for the past ten years is because they would show he did not pay any taxes for those years!
Mitt, there is one way to put this rumor to rest. Release the tax forms!
If by "word is out" you mean that Harry Reid casually tossed out this accusation while acknowledging that he doesn't know if it is true or not, you are totally accurate.
Certainly Mr. Reid would be above trying to create a diversion before the impending July job report, which is expected to show unemployment still sitting at 8.2%, drops, wouldn't he?
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: Now the word is out that the real reason why Romney will not release his taxes for the past ten years is because they would show he did not pay any taxes for those years!
Mitt, there is one way to put this rumor to rest. Release the tax forms!
Is this an attempt to get back at the birthers?
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
 Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
If so, fair enough.
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Well, Obama releasing his Birth Certificate did not assuage the birthers, did it?
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: quote: Originally posted by Niteowl2: [I won't be voting for Romney. He's an extreme flip flopper who'll say anything to anyone to get what he wants.
Well, I wish I could disagree with you forcefully. Still, at this point, almost anyone would do a better job than Obama. Please reconsider your vote.
Health care is the solid reason I won't. Well, if Romney actually had a solid proposal to get health coverage for those currently without, i.e. those who don't have coverage from an employer (many don't provide insurance these days for various reasons), those who can't obtain it due to insurance denial due for a pre-existing condition or those who can't afford premiums for the family or even themselves, well I might change my mind. And tax credits won't cut it.
To be honest, I haven't voted GOP or Democrat in the last 4 Presidential elections as I despise both parties and the brightest and best of America haven't been seen. I've voted 3rd party or done a write in of someone I wish would run. I wouldn't vote for either party this time but health care is much too important an issue for me. And I do have to apologize to anyone I've criticized for single issue voting in the past. [ 02. August 2012, 02:45: Message edited by: Niteowl2 ]
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
There is, in all 50 states, a libertarian candidate, Gov. Gary Johnson. And the Green party has a place in many states a candidate, Ralph Nader.
If you believe that a showing of support for either of these alternatives would cause the winning party to amend their positions maybe such a vote wouldn't be wasted. Examples of this are Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose party, Strom Thurmond's Dixiecrats and Henry Wallace's socialists.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: Now the word is out that the real reason why Romney will not release his taxes for the past ten years is because they would show he did not pay any taxes for those years!
Mitt, there is one way to put this rumor to rest. Release the tax forms!
There's been speculation along those lines, though most tax experts say it's unlikely Romney paid zero taxes in any recent year. A number close to, but not actually, zero would be just as damaging. Some further speculation is that this is the reason the McCain campaign (which saw twenty-three years of Romney tax returns) passed on Romney as a VP pick; they saw something in the returns that made Sarah Palin seem like the better electoral choice.
Think about that for a minute!
-------------------- Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Crœsos: quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: Now the word is out that the real reason why Romney will not release his taxes for the past ten years is because they would show he did not pay any taxes for those years!
Mitt, there is one way to put this rumor to rest. Release the tax forms!
There's been speculation along those lines, though most tax experts say it's unlikely Romney paid zero taxes in any recent year. A number close to, but not actually, zero would be just as damaging. Some further speculation is that this is the reason the McCain campaign (which saw twenty-three years of Romney tax returns) passed on Romney as a VP pick; they saw something in the returns that made Sarah Palin seem like the better electoral choice.
Think about that for a minute!
I can't help thinking that anything that makes Palin seem like a better choice is well into "live boy or dead girl" territory.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by IconiumBound: There is, in all 50 states, a libertarian candidate, Gov. Gary Johnson. And the Green party has a place in many states a candidate, Ralph Nader.
If you believe that a showing of support for either of these alternatives would cause the winning party to amend their positions maybe such a vote wouldn't be wasted.
The problem is that a vote for one of those candidates makes it more likely that the winner will be the candidate least likely to take notice of them and amend their positions because of them.
-------------------- Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: The problem is that a vote for one of those candidates makes it more likely that the winner will be the candidate least likely to take notice of them and amend their positions because of them.
Yes, but third-party voting takes a longer view than that. The hope is that the issues championed by the third party will be adopted by the major party that lost the last election because of the support siphoned off by these issues. The major party then backs those issues in the future, and they become the law of the land. At least, that has been the trajectory of third party support historically in this country. I don't know how such things translate to parliamentary systems that embrace more than two parties.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Timothy the Obscure
 Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by IconiumBound: There is, in all 50 states, a libertarian candidate, Gov. Gary Johnson. And the Green party has a place in many states a candidate, Ralph Nader.
The Green Party candidate this year is Jill Stein (Nader hasn't run on the Green ticket since 2000).
-------------------- When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. - C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by tclune: Yes, but third-party voting takes a longer view than that. The hope is that the issues championed by the third party will be adopted by the major party that lost the last election because of the support siphoned off by these issues.
We don't vote in general elections to send coded messages to political parties, we vote to elect representatives to the legislature and to choose governments - in practice often to choose the least crappy government out of the crappy ones on offer. The only morally valid excuse not to vote, or to waste a vote on a certain loser, is if you really think that all the candidates on offer are equally bad, or if the positions to which they are to be elected are entirely powerless so it doesn't mater who gets in, or if one candidate is so certain to get in that you don't believe your vote will make any difference . And I suspect those things aren't quite true yet in most of the United States.
If you want to send a message to political parties, do it by sending them a message. Or by getting involved in the party itself between elections, if you can hold your nose long enough. Or by promoting your own candidates. But don't waste your vote by throwing it away on a guaranteed loser at election time. Its a vote, not a means of self-expression.
And of course do all you can to campaign for a change in the voting system to some kind of preferential ballot which will allow us to vote for who we really want without the risk of letting in the bad guys.
-------------------- Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: The only morally valid excuse not to vote, or to waste a vote on a certain loser, is if you really think that all the candidates on offer are equally bad...
Sweet... I have a morally valid excuse!
-------------------- "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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Og, King of Bashan
 Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
So I was wrong about the July job report. I said it was expected to show unemployment still sitting at 8.2%. It actually went up to 8.3%. Hiring was up, but this year's average number of jobs added per month is about the same as it was last year.
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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RuthW
 liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: We don't vote in general elections to send coded messages to political parties ...
Speak for yourself.
quote: The only morally valid excuse not to vote, or to waste a vote on a certain loser, is if you really think that all the candidates on offer are equally bad, or if the positions to which they are to be elected are entirely powerless so it doesn't mater who gets in, or if one candidate is so certain to get in that you don't believe your vote will make any difference . And I suspect those things aren't quite true yet in most of the United States.
Fivethirtyeight says Obama has a 99.6% chance of taking California's 55 electoral college votes. My vote in the presidential election will in fact make no difference at all, so yes, this is exactly the time to send a message to the Democratic party in California that despite the fact that the Republicans are dying on the vine here, Democrats do not have a license to do whatever the hell stupid thing they want to do.
The truth is, the votes that will make a difference in this election are the ones cast in swing states. If I lived in Ohio, I wouldn't think of voting for a third-party candidate. But here in California, where we pay more in taxes than we get back from the federal government, where national candidates come only to talk to rich people who will give them money, a third-party vote is an important statement. [ 03. August 2012, 16:19: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
So, what does congress do when it needs to pass a farm relief bill, come up with a way to avert a financial cliff, and pass a jobs bill? Take a five week vacation! And we wonder why things are not happening!! Hey, congress, get back to work. Do what you have been elected to do!!!
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Og, King of Bashan
 Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: So, what does congress do when it needs to pass a farm relief bill, come up with a way to avert a financial cliff, and pass a jobs bill? Take a five week vacation! And we wonder why things are not happening!! Hey, congress, get back to work. Do what you have been elected to do!!!
They did manage to agree to fund the government through next March. Small potatoes, but at least the Tea Party caucus has learned that threatening shutdown is a losing strategy.
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: So, what does congress do when it needs to pass a farm relief bill, come up with a way to avert a financial cliff, and pass a jobs bill? Take a five week vacation! And we wonder why things are not happening!! Hey, congress, get back to work. Do what you have been elected to do!!!
In all honesty, I don't expect these clowns to do as good a job as will happen if nothing is done -- sequestration and letting all the Bush tax cuts expire is probably a better deal than we'll get if our legislators come up with an alternative. With any luck, the military won't have enough money left to bomb unknown people in neutral countries -- in the name of fighting terrorism, no less! What a world...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by tclune: quote: Originally posted by Gramps49: So, what does congress do when it needs to pass a farm relief bill, come up with a way to avert a financial cliff, and pass a jobs bill? Take a five week vacation! And we wonder why things are not happening!! Hey, congress, get back to work. Do what you have been elected to do!!!
In all honesty, I don't expect these clowns to do as good a job as will happen if nothing is done -- sequestration and letting all the Bush tax cuts expire is probably a better deal than we'll get if our legislators come up with an alternative. With any luck, the military won't have enough money left to bomb unknown people in neutral countries -- in the name of fighting terrorism, no less! What a world...
--Tom Clune
I'm thinking of starting a vote for a cat or dog for our members of state legislature and members of federal congress ala Comet's town's mayoral fix. I think
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: quote: Originally posted by tclune: Yes, but third-party voting takes a longer view than that. The hope is that the issues championed by the third party will be adopted by the major party that lost the last election because of the support siphoned off by these issues.
We don't vote in general elections to send coded messages to political parties, we vote to elect representatives to the legislature and to choose governments - in practice often to choose the least crappy government out of the crappy ones on offer. The only morally valid excuse not to vote, or to waste a vote on a certain loser, is if you really think that all the candidates on offer are equally bad, or if the positions to which they are to be elected are entirely powerless so it doesn't mater who gets in, or if one candidate is so certain to get in that you don't believe your vote will make any difference . And I suspect those things aren't quite true yet in most of the United States.
If you want to send a message to political parties, do it by sending them a message. Or by getting involved in the party itself between elections, if you can hold your nose long enough. Or by promoting your own candidates. But don't waste your vote by throwing it away on a guaranteed loser at election time. Its a vote, not a means of self-expression.
And of course do all you can to campaign for a change in the voting system to some kind of preferential ballot which will allow us to vote for who we really want without the risk of letting in the bad guys.
I hate to tell you this, but the bad guys are already in and they're Democrats and Republicans. The "don't waste your vote it's immoral" is the supreme copout and will let the system continue as it has for the past several decades: downhill. I'll vote 3rd party if I can and more and more people are starting to vote 3rd party as more and more people get disgusted with the GOP and Democrats. Sorry if that messes with your nice orderly viewpoint - but it ain't immoral by any stretch of the imagination.
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Janine
 The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
It's amazing to see how broad segments of Ron Paul's issues -- the very same issues he talked about the last time he ran, the same positions he's taken all his 30-year career -- icebergs of Paul material liberally (hah) dot the sea of verbiage released by the other Republican candidates all along the way. Remains to be seen if any of it is actually acted upon by Romney if he gets to run & gets elected, but one does hear the same phrases and concepts that were denigrated and pooh-poohed as soooo radical in previous campaigns.
So, the third party thing does have an effect.
'Course I'd really rather see the effect of state-level and national-level GOP PsTB honestly following their own rules & allowing the Paul-supporting delegates to do their thing without pulling shady shenanigans to interrupt them.
But I'll take the growing 3rd-party effect if that's all I can get.
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Alternative Minimum Tax is calculated on earned income, not necessarily investment income. Most of Romney's income is in the investment category. Moreover Romney has been known to park his money offshore where it cannot be taxed.
But all the other possibilities listed above could be plausible.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Sober Preacher's Kid
 Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I thought the US levied income tax on a person's worldwide income? Failure to disclose his offshore income is thus tax evasion. If he were just rich, nobody would know, but it gets a bit more problematic if you are running for President.
-------------------- NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
How do you know he did not report all worldwide income?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: How do you know he did not report all worldwide income?
I think SPK was responding to the post above him, not making an accusation.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
Sorry to double-post, but the authoritative Borowitz Report has provided in-depth coverage of the important Romney endorsement by Jenna Jameson. You can read the details here.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid: I thought the US levied income tax on a person's worldwide income?
I've little knowledge how the American tax system works, but this article suggests otherwise.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: quote: Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid: I thought the US levied income tax on a person's worldwide income?
I've little knowledge how the American tax system works, but this article suggests otherwise.
The article refers to corporate taxes, a much more complicated world. A US citizen is taxable on their worldwide income, although tax treaties with many countries prevents double taxation. Nevertheless, they must file, even if they are permanently resident elsewhere. Temporary residents of the US (including those hundreds of thousands of Canadians who winter there) must also file, and form 8840 is well-known. A Vancouver friend's partner is but one of a firm of twenty accountants and tax lawyers in that city handling the US taxes of local residents. He tells me that there are likely 60-80 fulltime financial professionals in Vancouver dealing with US taxes. I do know that the IRS section at the US Embassy in Ottawa employs 160 staff.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Amos
 Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Paul Ryan? Is he the Sarah Palin de nos jours?
-------------------- At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yeah, word on NBC is that Paul Ryan will be Romney's running mate.
I don't know what Romney's handlers were thinking, though: Ryan's already had a sex scandal. His ex, Jeri Ryan (who played 7 of 9 on "Star Trek: Voyager" alleged that he dragged her into sex clubs, and tried to get her to participate.
Here's info from The Smoking Gun.
I remembered that. Why didn't the Republicans???
-------------------- Blessed Gator, pray for us! --"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon") --"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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MarsmanTJ
Shipmate
# 8689
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Golden Key: Yeah, word on NBC is that Paul Ryan will be Romney's running mate.
I don't know what Romney's handlers were thinking, though: Ryan's already had a sex scandal. His ex, Jeri Ryan (who played 7 of 9 on "Star Trek: Voyager" alleged that he dragged her into sex clubs, and tried to get her to participate.
Here's info from The Smoking Gun.
I remembered that. Why didn't the Republicans???
Because one is Jack Ryan (the sex scandal Illinois Republican) and the other is Paul Ryan (so far squeaky-clean Wisconsin Republican Congressman)
Posts: 238 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Golden Key: Yeah, word on NBC is that Paul Ryan will be Romney's running mate.
I don't know what Romney's handlers were thinking, though: Ryan's already had a sex scandal. His ex, Jeri Ryan (who played 7 of 9 on "Star Trek: Voyager" alleged that he dragged her into sex clubs, and tried to get her to participate.
Here's info from The Smoking Gun.
I remembered that. Why didn't the Republicans???
Actually, Jeri Ryan mas married to Congressman Jack Ryan, not Paul Ryan. Which your link above confirms. Paul Ryan hasn't had a sex scandal and he's the darling of the ultra conservatives and Tea Party, whose support Romney needs, especially after his stumbles this summer.
Paul Ryan's severe budget machinations scare the crap out of me. They won't make for a stronger economy, they'll weaken an already bad economy and make it even harder for families having a tough time. We need a sensible budget, but the draconian one he has proposed that will just make it harder on those in the middle and poor economic brackets and on seniors. He also wants to make Medicare a voucher program. I'd dearly love to strip the posh health benefits those in Congress have as they have no appreciation of just how tough it is for everyone else out there. Especially the GOP whose only goal is to kill Obamacare, not fix it or any other health care issue. All I've ever heard is "tax credits" and those will not fix denials based on pre-existing conditions or out of reach premium prices or caps on those with expensive medical conditions. [ 11. August 2012, 09:05: Message edited by: Niteowl2 ]
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
The gaffes keep getting better and better.
Jon Steward did a funny bit on it here. Starts around 1:30.
-------------------- "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by irish_lord99: The gaffes keep getting better and better.
Jon Steward did a funny bit on it here. Starts around 1:30.
I think that's what sealed the deal for Ryan. The conservatives were once again questioning why they should vote for Romney.
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Next "President" of the United States? A slip of the tongue from Romney?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: Next "President" of the United States? A slip of the tongue from Romney?
Romney is the Joe Biden of the GOP. He's been doing that all summer...
Not to mention he knows the conservative base will be voting for Ryan and not him. I'd watch his back once in office. [ 11. August 2012, 13:42: Message edited by: Niteowl2 ]
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Does it spoil the civil discourse of this thread if I say that I think Paul Ryan might be the devil? The guy's a knuckle-dragger.
-------------------- Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by New Yorker: Next "President" of the United States? A slip of the tongue from Romney?
He of course meant the next next President as Ryan will be elected in 2020 after two stunningly successful terms as VP.
(That faint muttering you hear is Hillary softly cursing under her breath. )
And hope remains that Joe Walsh may run for VP again this year.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Zach82: Does it spoil the civil discourse of this thread if I say that I think Paul Ryan might be the devil? The guy's a knuckle-dragger.
I'll agree he's the devil, but in fact, he's not a knuckle dragger. He's too smart for that and the fact he has managed to get his budget and Medicare plans are taken seriously by the GOP shows how smart he is. It also shows the extremists have taken over the party. Ryan used to be an Ayn Rand advocate, but has now renounced her - which scores him points with the religious right. Romney has more or less surrendered the Presidency and the fact is, it's Ryan who will be the focus of the GOP campaign and for all intents and purposes Romney will be the VP. I wonder if he knows it and that is why the slip of the tongue.
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
Double post to say that a lot of Democrats are rejoicing with this choice and they are in danger of overplaying their hand and underestimating Ryan, which would be a devastating mistake. Ryan is very, very smart in appealing to voters and the voters buy the words without calculating the true costs of what Ryan is proposing to do.
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
 Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Zach82: Does it spoil the civil discourse of this thread if I say that I think Paul Ryan might be the devil? The guy's a knuckle-dragger.
Oh, I'm sure someone will come along and say much worse by the end. It's only August. Hay, you could have rushed out and accused him of being a pervert.
Although I do always get confused when people tell you that someone is a diabolical evil genius with secret plans and then in the same breath tell you the guy is also stupid. If you are going to take broad swipes at people, at least make them consistent.
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
It's true, the entrance of such an extremist into the race is nothing to rejoice about. This was the guy who basically single-handedly go the US's credit rating downgraded. What on earth is happening to the republican party?
-------------------- Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote: Although I do always get confused when people tell you that someone is a diabolical evil genius with secret plans and then in the same breath tell you the guy is also stupid. If you are going to take broad swipes at people, at least make them consistent.
I never said I thought he was a diabolical genius. I, personally, think he's fanatical far beyond any rationality. He's as much as admitted that his goal is to wreck the federal government in order to save us all from the evils of government.
-------------------- Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Niteowl
 Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan: quote: Originally posted by Zach82: Does it spoil the civil discourse of this thread if I say that I think Paul Ryan might be the devil? The guy's a knuckle-dragger.
Although I do always get confused when people tell you that someone is a diabolical evil genius with secret plans and then in the same breath tell you the guy is also stupid. If you are going to take broad swipes at people, at least make them consistent.
Actually, it was me who called him smart, not a genius. I think his intentions are evil in that as Zach82 stated, he more or less wants to destroy the Federal government and I've said he wants to destroy Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps and any other social program leaving the elderly, disabled and poor to fend for themselves. He also would cut the agencies that ensure food safety and environmental protections that have made a huge difference from the 60's where smog was so thick you could cut it with a knife and waterways were toxic. Have some agencies gone overboard? Yup, Is there wasteful spending? Yup - but the answer isn't to eliminate everything. But make no mistake, Ryan is smart in that he's gotten the GOP to go for his budget and Social Security/Medicare "solutions" and has the support of the religious right after renouncing Ayn Rand. The Democrats would be making a huge mistake to think Ryan's VP pick will automatically give Obama a win.
-------------------- "love all, trust few, do wrong to no one" Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
 Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I usually assume that for someone to qualify as a candidate for the devil incarnate, it requires some sort of unusual aptitude for evil that would not be consistent with a knuckle dragger. But then I don't suggest that people are the devil very often, so maybe I don't understand the finer points of that particular variety of name calling.
It should prove entertaining to see what folks are saying Paul Ryan has "as much as admitted" to by the end of the weekend...
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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