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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: A 2012 US election thread
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I keep hoping against hope that somehow Obama has some clever long-range maneuver up his sleeve that's going to make the Repub position impossible come next November. At this point, I'll need a clothespin on my nose in the voting booth no matter who I vote for. I can't stand Romney or Gingrich, and I'm deeply sorry I voted for Obama.
I doubt Obama's got any last-minute miracles, though, unless he's planning to switch parties and join the Republican freak show and run against himself. At least he'd be out of his conservative closet.
The only Repub candidates I can begin to take seriously are glurging around in the single digits.
My other theory is that no truly serious Repub contenders have come forward because they all figure Obama has it locked up. (And they may be right -- why isn't, say, Huntsman getting more attention than the loony-toons on his side of the aisle?) Why anyone of any party would think Obama's unbeatable, I can't imagine. Obama has turned out to be a soulless sell-out technocrat. I'll vote for him only as a least-of-two-evils option.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Our papers have recently been saying that Newt Gingrich has quite a good chance of being the Republican candidate in next year's election, simply as the last man standing.
But he isn't. Insantorum is still standing. He is intelligent, although widely regarded as a sanctimonious asshole obsessed with social "issues". When have the Republicans let the latter traits stop them before?
He probably will not be the nominee. But I expect that they're desperate enough to give him a few days in the sun.
If Newt is the nominee, it will be a race between two erstwhile professors. That must a first be a first.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Huntsman got plenty of attention when he announced but lost it because he remained in single digits. Paul deserves more attention but probably can't win the nomination. Tim Pawlenty got out of the race too soon. The Tea Party likely convinced some of the better Republicans candidates to stay out of the race.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Leave aside for a moment Clinton's multiple affairs, rape accusations, and perjurious grand jury testimony and imagine if you will the idea of the shrub, Bush I, or even Reagan being blown in the oval office by a 19 year old volunteer intern.
By the time he was in the White House, Reagan was probably past it--but he was an adulterer (Nancy Reagan gave birth to a full-term baby seven months after Ronnie's divorce from Jane Wyman).
But come on--they spent five years and $50 mil trying to nail Clinton, and all they could come up with was that he lied about getting a blow job. I figure that makes him squeaky clean by Washington standards. Not that I actually care--I may be the only person in America who didn't read the Starr report because I decided it was none of my business. The problem with Gingrich is not his sexual behavior but his hypocrisy--that he has repeatedly condemned others for things he enthusiastically does himself (like pimping for Freddie Mac).
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Huntsman got plenty of attention when he announced but lost it because he remained in single digits. Paul deserves more attention but probably can't win the nomination. Tim Pawlenty got out of the race too soon. The Tea Party likely convinced some of the better Republicans candidates to stay out of the race.
Huh? Did he lose the attention because he remained in the single digits, or did he remain in the single digits because he lost the attention?
The loony-toons, and our so-called "press's" irresponsibility in highlighting their looniness instead of focusing on anybody serious, are, in my view, doing serious damage to the very notion of campaigning for office.
And don't get me started on the so-called "debates," especially one with The Donald running the show. As a nation, we should just bite the bullet and turn the whole bloody business over to Reality TV producers:
Tune!! In!! Next!! Week!! When!! "Political Survivor"!! Handles!! Snakes!! In!! A!! High-Stakes!! Test!! Of!! Faith!!
[ 06. December 2011, 12:17: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Huntsman just isn't appealing to Republican primary voters.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Huntsman just isn't appealing to Republican primary voters.
I thought John Stewart had it just about right on Huntsman's campaign -- it appealed to those Republicans who wanted a Mormon ex-governor who wasn't as well known as Romney.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
This is tangential to the thread but I am wondering if someone could help me understand something.
With two Mormons running for the GOP nomination I am curious about the (perceived) difference between views about Mormonism and views about Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I can’t help but believe that a JW candidate would be subject to a greater degree of scrutiny/criticism regarding their faith than the current Mormon candidates are, although I could be mistaken about that.
I wonder why this is, and what accounts for that difference, particularly with regard to their texts. The NWT bible is simply an alternative translation of the actual bible, while the Book of Mormon is something altogether different, but Mormonism seems to have been accepted to the mainstream in a way that JW probably never will.
Is there a relatively simple reason for this?
Thanks for any input and apologies to the hosts for the tangent.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
The Mormon Tabernacle Choir?
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
With two Mormons running for the GOP nomination I am curious about the (perceived) difference between views about Mormonism and views about Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I can’t help but believe that a JW candidate would be subject to a greater degree of scrutiny/criticism regarding their faith than the current Mormon candidates are, although I could be mistaken about that.
ISTM that Mormons are better-known than are JWs. The fact that Romney's dad was governor of Michigan and ran for POTUS decades ago gives some idea of how long people have had to get used to the idea that Mormons are a common part of American life. In all honesty, I can't think of a single JW who is well-known in this country. So I suspect it's mostly a matter of folks having seen them in positions of authority without being green-eyed monsters, while there is no similar history with JWs.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Huntsman is a Mormon/Hindu in favor of legalized same sex unions. Despite being more demonstrably pro-life than Romney, he is less appealing to social conservatives. What sets Huntsman apart from Romney and all the rest of the Republican candidates is his foreign policy experience. Unfortunately, foreign policy won't be a major issue in the 2012 election. John Huntsman is the 2012 Republican version of Bill Richardson.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Huntsman is a Mormon/Hindu...
I understand that Huntsman has an adopted daughter of Indian origin. If that is what you are using to identify him as a Hindu, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you have any substantive basis for this claim that holds more water than the claims that Obama is a Moslem, I would like to see the source.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
So I suspect it's mostly a matter of folks having seen them in positions of authority without being green-eyed monsters, while there is no similar history with JWs.
--Tom Clune
Considering that both sects grew (roughly) out of the Enlightenment, would it be fair to say that it comes down to wealth, then?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
.... those Republicans who wanted a Mormon ex-governor who wasn't as well known as Romney.
(etc etc stuff about JWs, Hindus & so on)
Looked at like that you wonder what the minimum conditions are for being a credible candidate from the point of view of most committed Republicans? Someone they media could big up into a challenger come election time.
Maybe they'd have to be:
- male
- white
- rich
- aged between about 40 and 60 (older people can get re-elected, but not first time)
- a governor or a senator (or recently have been such)
- a member in good standing of a not obviously weirdo Christian church. Any denomination will do and you don't actually have to believe any of it as long as you can smile and pose for the cameras in front of the church door on a couple of Sunday mornings. Mormons doesn't cut it.
- either married, or else divorced and remarried to the woman you left your previous wife for. These days divorce cures adultery in the eyes of the voters.
There must be at least fifty such people in the USA. They can't all be insane. Some of them must want to be President.
Why can't the Republicans find them?
Or maybe they have found one and they are keeping him secret till the last moment because the longer they are in the public eye the more time they have to screw the pooch?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Huntsman is a Mormon/Hindu...
I understand that Huntsman has an adopted daughter of Indian origin. If that is what you are using to identify him as a Hindu, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you have any substantive basis for this claim that holds more water than the claims that Obama is a Moslem, I would like to see the source.
Given the dynamics of the situation I'd say it's more akin to "John McCain fathered an illegitimate black child" than "Obama is a secret Moslem".
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Ken I don't know where you conjoured your list of requirements to be a good candidate for the most committed Republicans, but most committed Republicans would laugh at that list and wonder how out of touch one must be to imagine that those criteria exist.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Huntsman is a Mormon/Hindu...
I understand that Huntsman has an adopted daughter of Indian origin. If that is what you are using to identify him as a Hindu, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you have any substantive basis for this claim that holds more water than the claims that Obama is a Moslem, I would like to see the source.
--Tom Clune
Huntsman's Indian daughter is only 5. She has been raised as a Hindu and the family celebrates Diwali with her. I think Huntsman and his wife have sort of an eclectic spirituality. To most conservative Christian voters, Mormon, Hindu, and generic spirituality are all equally bad.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Ken I don't know where you conjoured your list of requirements to be a good candidate for the most committed Republicans, but most committed Republicans would laugh at that list and wonder how out of touch one must be to imagine that those criteria exist.
...and then they would nominate somebody who just happens to fit most of the criteria on Ken's list.
romanlion, I think the difference in the perception of JWs and Mormons has to be more than wealth. Mormons certainly didn't start out wealthy. While my previous remark about the Choir may have been a bit flippant, the Mormon hierarchy does seem to consider them very important public relations ambassadors, and they have been so for some 8 decades or so.
Edited to add a second thought: Mormons in general seem to be much more concerned with public relations and public image. A number of billboards have cropped up in Atlanta recently with pictures of young beautiful people looking wholesome and proclaiming that they are Mormon.
[ 06. December 2011, 16:32: Message edited by: Organ Builder ]
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Looked at like that you wonder what the minimum conditions are for being a credible candidate from the point of view of most committed Republicans? Someone they media could big up into a challenger come election time.
Maybe they'd have to be:
- male
- white
- rich
- aged between about 40 and 60 (older people can get re-elected, but not first time)
- a governor or a senator (or recently have been such)
- a member in good standing of a not obviously weirdo Christian church. Any denomination will do and you don't actually have to believe any of it as long as you can smile and pose for the cameras in front of the church door on a couple of Sunday mornings. Mormons doesn't cut it.
- either married, or else divorced and remarried to the woman you left your previous wife for. These days divorce cures adultery in the eyes of the voters.
There must be at least fifty such people in the USA. They can't all be insane. Some of them must want to be President.
I think one of them is President.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Beeswax
You claim Hillary is a polarizing figure, but you have not given any examples.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Huntsman is a Mormon/Hindu...
I understand that Huntsman has an adopted daughter of Indian origin. If that is what you are using to identify him as a Hindu, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you have any substantive basis for this claim that holds more water than the claims that Obama is a Moslem, I would like to see the source.
--Tom Clune
Huntsman's Indian daughter is only 5. She has been raised as a Hindu and the family celebrates Diwali with her. I think Huntsman and his wife have sort of an eclectic spirituality. To most conservative Christian voters, Mormon, Hindu, and generic spirituality are all equally bad.
Your classification seems to be based on this statement to Newsweek:
quote:
I was raised a Mormon, Mary Kaye was raised Episcopalian, our kids have gone to Catholic school, I went to a Lutheran school growing up in Los Angeles. I have [an adopted] daughter from India who has a very distinct Hindu tradition, one that we would celebrate during Diwali. So you kind of bind all this together.
For whatever reason you don't classify John Huntsman as a Mormon/Episcopalian/Catholic/Lutheran/Hindu. Is there any particular reason you decided to exclude the middle three from your description?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
What would an example of Hillary, or anybody else for that matter, being a polarizing figure look like?
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Ken I don't know where you conjoured your list of requirements to be a good candidate for the most committed Republicans, but most committed Republicans would laugh at that list and wonder how out of touch one must be to imagine that those criteria exist.
You don't really believe that do you?
You know perfectly well that there is at the moment, and never has been in the past, any really serious Republican candidate who was not white and male. (Ther delusion that Palin would have been a serious candidate had she ever got the nomination is irrelevant, because she never did and never will)
No-one who wasn't either rich or successful in business has been the Republican candidate for a very long time. Probably the last one who wasn't very well off when he entered politics was Nixon, and he wasn't exactly on the breadline.
(Pretty much the same goes for the Democrats of course Obama probably entered politics with less personal wealth than any Democrat president for a long time, but he is still likely to have been much wealthier than the average American - and most Democrat presidents in the past were rich - some extremely rich)
And as for the religious affiliation, its being debated all over the place, not just here. Do you really think they are likely to nominate an atheist or a Muslim? Really? Hey, you seem to live in New York - do you want to buy a bridge?
(And just as an irrelevant aside, one of the differences betwen the USA and here is that Mormons are pretty weird to us - we don't have many and they look a bit scary and alien to the average Brit. JWs are much more common. No-one seems to like them much and they are generally stereotyped as boring fanatics, but they aren't weird the way Mormons are)
[ 06. December 2011, 16:52: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
You can't think of anytime when Hillary was not a polarizing figure?
I gave one example: when she worked with Gulliani in response to 9-11.
Give me just one recent example--meaning since she has become Secretary of State--where she polarized people?
I will grant her defense of her husband was off putting to some people, but not all people. However, that is not a recent example.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Republicans hated her long before she defended her husband. They hated her after she defended her husband. Hillary being a polarizing figure was one of the reasons Obama won the nomination.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
JWs eschew earthly government.
From Wikipedia:
"They remain politically neutral, do not seek public office, and are discouraged from voting ..."
So a practicing JW candidate for president (or even dog-catcher) isn't likely to happen.
[ 06. December 2011, 17:25: Message edited by: Lothiriel ]
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Hey! Thats a help!
Thanks very much.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
You don't really believe that do you?
Yes, I do believe it.
quote:
(Ther delusion that Palin would have been a serious candidate had she ever got the nomination is irrelevant, because she never did and never will)
She was certainly serious as a VP candidate and I and lot of people I know were serious supporters of her.
quote:
And as for the religious affiliation, its being debated all over the place, not just here. Do you really think they are likely to nominate an atheist or a Muslim? Really? Hey, you seem to live in New York - do you want to buy a bridge?
It appears that you've already bought one! The religion issue, it seems to me, is being debated by the chattering opionin and news folks but not by the average voter. Most Republicans that I know could care less about Romney's religion.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
The religion issue, it seems to me, is being debated by the chattering opionin and news folks but not by the average voter. Most Republicans that I know could care less about Romney's religion.
This would appear to be true, but I wonder...
Romney seems to be second choice at best for most GOP primary voters. He has held his +/- 20% in the polls while new options have surged and faded.
Now that it appears to be Newt, I wonder what the difference really is.
When you have two waffling, flip-flopping hypocrites as your front runners, what is the sense in choosing the one with far more personal baggage? Both are skilled debaters, but one is a reformed Catholic and one is Mormon.
Arguably Newt sounds better than Mitt, but he is no less full of shit.
I hope its Newt for selfish reasons, but I can't follow the logic of it.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Mitt's flip flops seem more calculating than Fink-Nottle's flip flops. Who knows? Fink-Nottle might be just as calculating and Mitt's changes of hear might be sincere.
I just don't like Romney's hair. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
quote:
And don't get me started on the so-called "debates," especially one with The Donald running the show. As a nation, we should just bite the bullet and turn the whole bloody business over to Reality TV producers:
On Facebook the other day I suggested that, now that The Donald is hosting -- oops, I mean moderating [snort] the Republican debates, the TV producers go all the way, and create a hybrid of the debates and "Dancing With the Stars," since both endeavors have an equivalent gravitas and reality-vs.-showbiz ratio.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I just don't like Romney's hair.
Lawrence O'Donnell did a bit last night where he called Mitt the Marilyn Munster of the GOP. The seemingly normal one...
Pretty funny.
Sadly his hair is probably as deep as many voters will look.
There is no need to turn the process over to reality TV producers when we already have an American Idol President. One that worked out about as well as Fantasia Barrino.
[ 06. December 2011, 19:52: Message edited by: romanlion ]
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
quote:
And don't get me started on the so-called "debates," especially one with The Donald running the show. As a nation, we should just bite the bullet and turn the whole bloody business over to Reality TV producers:
On Facebook the other day I suggested that, now that The Donald is hosting -- oops, I mean moderating [snort] the Republican debates, the TV producers go all the way, and create a hybrid of the debates and "Dancing With the Stars," since both endeavors have an equivalent gravitas and reality-vs.-showbiz ratio.
I have found the debates pretty substantive -- and, frankly, kind of brave in this "gotcha" sound bite age. I don't share the views of the Republican candidates on a lot of issues, but they are really giving the primary voters a chance to look them over in detail. DT is certainly not my idea of a heavyweight, but I'm willing to suspend judgment on the debate until it happens. And, given that it is just one of a substantial series, it won't be a terrible thing if it is on the fluffy side.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
The problem with the debate format is that it has revealed that the GOP not-Romneys are all incompetent to be the Leader of The Free World. Is this level of incompatence absolutely necessary for a GOP nominee or would they accept someone who has one or two clues hidden away safely until after the nominatons cease?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
The problem with the debate format is that it has revealed that the GOP not-Romneys are all incompetent to be the Leader of The Free World.
The English embassy in Tehran was sacked November 30th.
Sorry, the United Kingdom embassy.
And Mr. Cain has dropped out of the race.
There is no one up there that isn't at least Obama's equal in terms of competence.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Republicans hated her long before she defended her husband. They hated her after she defended her husband. Hillary being a polarizing figure was one of the reasons Obama won the nomination.
The deal of it is Republicans do not vote in the Democratic primary process, so their hatred of her had no direct impact in the nomination of Obama. Judging from the caucus I participated in, the reason why Obama one was because of his promise of change--now it can be debated if we got what he promised, agreed.
You still have not given me any example of how Hillary is a polarizing figure.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Obama said on national television that Hillary was a polarizing figure! She isn't a polarizing figure among Democrats. You got that right. Hillary running in the primary would be worse for Obama than Kennedy's primary challenge was to Carter. Kennedy didn't wasn't part of the Carter administration.
You are asking why she is a polarizing figure?
-"Two for the price of one"
-Hillarycare
-Travelgate
-Futures trading
-"Vast right wing conspiracy"
-Carpetbagging
-Debate with Lazio
-Insulting Gen. Petraeus
Those are the ones I recall off the top of my head.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
The problem with the debate format is that it has revealed that the GOP not-Romneys are all incompetent to be the Leader of The Free World.
The English embassy in Tehran was sacked November 30th.
Sorry, the United Kingdom embassy.
And Mr. Cain has dropped out of the race.
There is no one up there that isn't at least Obama's equal in terms of competence.
What does the sacking of the United Kingdom embassy in Iran have to do with anything? Obama isn't Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. The Republicans in the debates are running for President of United States not standing for election as Witney's representative in parliament.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
You are asking why she is a polarizing figure?
quote:
-"Two for the price of one"
-Hillarycare
-Travelgate
-Futures trading
-"Vast right wing conspiracy"
-Carpetbagging
-Debate with Lazio
-Insulting Gen. Petraeus
Those are the ones I recall off the top of my head. [/QB]
Hillarycare? You talking about her approach to healthcare? It was innovative, but it did not pass.
Travelgate? Investigated, no laws broken
Vast right wing conspiracy? It was the truth--still is.
Lazio? What happened?
A decisive moment that was detrimental to {Lazio's) campaign came during a September 13, 2000 debate when he left his podium, walked over to Clinton with a piece of paper that he called the "New York Freedom From Soft Money Pledge" and demanded she sign it. Clinton refused. Some debate viewers were turned off by Lazio's demeanor towards Clinton – and as a result, Clinton's support among women voters solidified.
Lazio has since expressed regret for his conduct, widely regarded as "bullying and chauvinistic", during the debate:
"At the time, I was making a point about a campaign finance pledge that Mrs. Clinton had made and I didn't feel that it was being honored. I thought that was the opportunity to make the point. On substance, it was right - and on style and perception, it was a mistake, which I regret."
Insulting Petreaus? He's a big man. He can handle himself. (If he brings in charts that are suspect, what is she supposed to do, compliment him?
Futures Trading? Investigated, no wrong doing found.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
quote:
And don't get me started on the so-called "debates," especially one with The Donald running the show. As a nation, we should just bite the bullet and turn the whole bloody business over to Reality TV producers:
On Facebook the other day I suggested that, now that The Donald is hosting -- oops, I mean moderating [snort] the Republican debates, the TV producers go all the way, and create a hybrid of the debates and "Dancing With the Stars," since both endeavors have an equivalent gravitas and reality-vs.-showbiz ratio.
I bow to your superior wisdom. Surely The Donald will provide better costumes than DWTS. (But keep whoever does that thing he wears on his head faaaaaar away from the debaters.)
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
You are asking why she is a polarizing figure?
quote:
-"Two for the price of one"
-Hillarycare
-Travelgate
-Futures trading
-"Vast right wing conspiracy"
-Carpetbagging
-Debate with Lazio
-Insulting Gen. Petraeus
Those are the ones I recall off the top of my head.
Hillarycare? You talking about her approach to healthcare? It was innovative, but it did not pass.
Travelgate? Investigated, no laws broken
Vast right wing conspiracy? It was the truth--still is.
Lazio? What happened?
A decisive moment that was detrimental to {Lazio's) campaign came during a September 13, 2000 debate when he left his podium, walked over to Clinton with a piece of paper that he called the "New York Freedom From Soft Money Pledge" and demanded she sign it. Clinton refused. Some debate viewers were turned off by Lazio's demeanor towards Clinton – and as a result, Clinton's support among women voters solidified.
Lazio has since expressed regret for his conduct, widely regarded as "bullying and chauvinistic", during the debate:
"At the time, I was making a point about a campaign finance pledge that Mrs. Clinton had made and I didn't feel that it was being honored. I thought that was the opportunity to make the point. On substance, it was right - and on style and perception, it was a mistake, which I regret."
Insulting Petreaus? He's a big man. He can handle himself. (If he brings in charts that are suspect, what is she supposed to do, compliment him?
Futures Trading? Investigated, no wrong doing found. [/QB]
So, you represent one pole. People who see all of those things differently represent another pole. Hence, Hillary Clinton is a polarizing figure.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Obama said on national television that Hillary was a polarizing figure! She isn't a polarizing figure among Democrats. You got that right. Hillary running in the primary would be worse for Obama than Kennedy's primary challenge was to Carter. Kennedy didn't wasn't part of the Carter administration.
I couldn't agree more. If the Republicans don't get more excited about a candidate and if the unemployment rate continues to go the right direction, Obama stands a very good chance of being re-elected. If he has to fend off a primary challenge, the Republican candidate's chances get a lot better.
quote:
You are asking why she is a polarizing figure?
-"Two for the price of one"
I have to admit, the thought of Bill Clinton running around the White House again gave me pause in 2008.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
The problem with the debate format is that it has revealed that the GOP not-Romneys are all incompetent to be the Leader of The Free World.
In the future I should put my tea down before reading things like this. Obama is, as Rush says, always, without question, the least competent person into whatever room he walks. Any of the GOP field, even the bonkers Ron Paul, would be a much more competent Leader of the Free World.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Obama is, as Rush says, always, without question, the least competent person into whatever room he walks.
Well, this is the sort of thing you get when you take your analysis from a drug addict...
--Tom Clune
[ 07. December 2011, 13:39: Message edited by: tclune ]
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This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Leader of the Free World.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Now I get it! You're from the Fifties!!!!!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Leader of the Free World.
Now I get it! You're from the Fifties!!!!!
No. Simply quoting H. Bree.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Obama is, as Rush says, always, without question, the least competent person into whatever room he walks. Any of the GOP field, even the bonkers Ron Paul, would be a much more competent Leader of the Free World.
Hardly possible. Obama has been in the same room as Rush.
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Obama is, as Rush says, always, without question, the least competent person into whatever room he walks. Any of the GOP field, even the bonkers Ron Paul, would be a much more competent Leader of the Free World.
Dear New Yorker, do you really believe the things you write?
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
Here's some news from the thrilling field of candidate endorsements.
John McCain might (or might not) endorse a candidate during the Republican primary. I'm sure we're all waiting with bated breath, confident that McCain will be just as adept at picking presidential nominees as he was at picking running mates.
Phyllis Schlafly, a woman best known for pursuing a successful media relations career telling other women they should stay home and not pursue careers, has endorsed Michele Bachmann for president.
And finally, Irony was found bludgeoned to death in an Iowa cornfield earlier today.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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