|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Purgatory: A 2012 US election thread
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
So fear-mongering doesn't bother you? Typical.
If expressing a legitimate concern is fear mongering, then, no, it doesn't bother me.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Sure, but is this any more or less legitimate than a priest or minister threatening eternal damnation to those who vote the wrong way?
It is more legitimate because the CEO would have more of a clue about his business than a priest or minister would have about politics.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
So fear-mongering doesn't bother you? Typical.
If expressing a legitimate concern is fear mongering, then, no, it doesn't bother me.
Expressing a legitimate concern to your employees, when you have every expectation that it will upset them needlessly, and could be taken as a threat that they need to vote Republican? Come on.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Expressing a legitimate concern to your employees, when you have every expectation that it will upset them needlessly, and could be taken as a threat that they need to vote Republican? Come on.
I don't know the guy's business but it does appear to be a general concern of many and maybe most businesses that Obama being elected again would be bad for business. He's not going to know how his employees vote. But he's fear mongering? Take away fear mongering and what you have left is a bunch of politicians with nothing much to say.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I don't know the guy's business but it does appear to be a general concern of many and maybe most businesses that Obama being elected again would be bad for business.
I can't believe that most business owners or managers are that stupid.I'm sure there are a few that are. But if you look at the numbers, Obama has been great for business! Corporate profits are way, way up. CEO pay is up. Businesses are doing fabulously well under Obama.
--------------------
I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Expressing a legitimate concern to your employees, when you have every expectation that it will upset them needlessly, and could be taken as a threat that they need to vote Republican? Come on.
I don't know the guy's business but it does appear to be a general concern of many and maybe most businesses that Obama being elected again would be bad for business....
I for one would like to see that idea teased out a bit more.
Business as in Wall Street financial types?
Business as in large corporations with more then 1000 employees?
Small business?
Entrepreneurs?
To say "most" would seem a bit hyperbolic.
--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
|
Posted
Bringing up a Canadian example, I can remember Jean Chretien describing how his father had been denied communion by the local priest for having been a Liberal Party organiser, at the time that the proto-Fascist Union Nationale was in power.
The event that broke the people of Quebec free from the RC church was the coming to power of the Liberals in the Quiet Revolution of 1960, so the Union Nationale and the church did have something to fear.
I see the strikes against WalMart as the beginning of the change of attitude in the US. Once the workers lose their fear, the dam breaks. Mere Nick may have a point. The upper class may have a legitimate fear of losing their illegitimate power.
--------------------
It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Expressing a legitimate concern to your employees, when you have every expectation that it will upset them needlessly, and could be taken as a threat that they need to vote Republican? Come on.
I don't know the guy's business but it does appear to be a general concern of many and maybe most businesses that Obama being elected again would be bad for business. He's not going to know how his employees vote. But he's fear mongering? Take away fear mongering and what you have left is a bunch of politicians with nothing much to say.
Wait, so he's not fear mongering because politicians fear-monger? WTF?
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Mere Nick may have a point. The upper class may have a legitimate fear of losing their illegitimate power.
If that had any glimmer of truth to it, I would be enthusiastic about voting for Obama. As it is, he's just a tad less foul than Romney.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
The upper class may have a legitimate fear of losing their illegitimate power.
It's quite stupid of them to squeeze people so hard, really, as the economic situation that benefits them so much isn't sustainable, and if/when it all falls apart, they will suffer. Not enough, not as much as the poor souls who are already laboring in increasingly unfair circumstances, but still, they will suffer.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Expressing a legitimate concern to your employees, when you have every expectation that it will upset them needlessly, and could be taken as a threat that they need to vote Republican? Come on.
I don't know the guy's business but it does appear to be a general concern of many and maybe most businesses that Obama being elected again would be bad for business....
I for one would like to see that idea teased out a bit more.
Business as in Wall Street financial types?
Business as in large corporations with more then 1000 employees?
Small business?
Entrepreneurs?
To say "most" would seem a bit hyperbolic.
I suspect the CEO's concern has nothing whatsoever to do with staying in business-- as was noted above, corporate profits are way up, as is CEO compensation.
I suspect the real fear that's keeping the guy up at night is the prospect of losing his always-supposed-to-be-temporary Bush tax cut. He'll have to pay somewhat more individual taxes if Obama is able to get Congress to allow that to lapse for the wealthy than he would under Romney. But that's a lot harder to threaten your employees with.
Boo hoo. If he is the poster boy for tax cuts for the wealthy, the election is over.
[ 15. October 2012, 00:48: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Bringing up a Canadian example, I can remember Jean Chretien describing how his father had been denied communion by the local priest for having been a Liberal Party organiser, at the time that the proto-Fascist Union Nationale was in power.
The event that broke the people of Quebec free from the RC church was the coming to power of the Liberals in the Quiet Revolution of 1960, so the Union Nationale and the church did have something to fear.
I see the strikes against WalMart as the beginning of the change of attitude in the US. Once the workers lose their fear, the dam breaks. Mere Nick may have a point. The upper class may have a legitimate fear of losing their illegitimate power.
Gaining political power is one way to gain courage. Another is losing everything, so that you have nothing left to lose-- and therefore nothing left to fear losing. The working class in the US is pretty much there already.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I suspect the real fear that's keeping the guy up at night is the prospect of losing his always-supposed-to-be-temporary Bush tax cut. He'll have to pay somewhat more individual taxes if Obama is able to get Congress to allow that to lapse for the wealthy than he would under Romney. But that's a lot harder to threaten your employees with.
There's also what I consider to be the real reason the wealthy are so opposed to "Obamacare". Under current law there is no tax levied on capital gains to support Medicare. Starting in 2013 income derived from investments will be taxed to support Medicare, as is currently the case for income derived from wages. If there's anything the American upper class is morally certain of, it's that investment income should be tax free, hence their completely out of proportion rage at the idea of poor people receiving medical care.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
Of course, Romney supporters without investment portfolios have somewhat different motivations.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
|
Posted
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I knew somebody was going to appear with that offensive slogan sometime this election. It was guaranteed to happen.
--------------------
NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
|
Posted
A friend of mine who plans to vote for Romney has been spinning what seems to me a ludicrous tale regarding the Benghazi attacks. He thinks that Obama personally turned down a request for extra security, that he knew immediately that the attack was an organized attack and not just a riot, that his announcement that it had something to do with the anti-Muslim video was a bald-faced lie, part of a cover-up, and so on and so forth. All of which proves that Obama really has no advantage over Romney in foreign policy experience, and he doesn't deserve to be President.
Of course, I think that the State Department, as 9/11 was approaching, was dealing with a lot of threats and a lot of requests for extra security, that Obama would have personally seen none of them, but only have been given the big picture, that the decisions about where to allocate resources were made on the basis of the best intelligence they had, and there wasn't enough security to go around because of budget cuts made by the Republican congress over the last couple of years. And, yes, the attack was awful, and the deaths were tragic, but the number of attacks on American diplomatic facilities is way, way down. I have some concerns about Obama on foreign policy, but this isn't it.
Of course, my friend thinks my interpretation of events is as bizarre as I think his is.
And I've been thinking about this, and I've decided that it probably doesn't make any difference at all what happens between now and election day. The people who support Obama will interpret anything that happens one way. Those who support Romney will interpret it a different way. Those who say "a pox on both your houses" will continue to say that.
Is there anyone in the country who is still trying to decide who to support? Is there anyone whose mind could still be changed?
--------------------
I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
|
Posted
This sums up the undecided voters nicely: The Strip.
--------------------
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Is there anyone in the country who is still trying to decide who to support? Is there anyone whose mind could still be changed?
The various news outlets would have us think so as surprising as that may be.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Is there anyone in the country who is still trying to decide who to support? Is there anyone whose mind could still be changed?
The various news outlets would have us think so as surprising as that may be.
Such a person has been found here in the Asheville area. A local charity has him in a booth and for a buck you can go in and take a look.
Really, though, I suspect 90%+ of the voting public already have their minds made up for not just this election, but every election in the future.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Is there anyone in the country who is still trying to decide who to support? Is there anyone whose mind could still be changed?
The various news outlets would have us think so as surprising as that may be.
Such a person has been found here in the Asheville area. A local charity has him in a booth and for a buck you can go in and take a look.
Really, though, I suspect 90%+ of the voting public already have their minds made up for not just this election, but every election in the future.
That begs the question of the 'voting public'. While 90% of those voting will vote in every election and probably the same way (certainly in a two-horse race), the remaining ten percent actually determine the result and they are the fairly small proportion of those who don't show up for every election, but turn out this time round.
Four years ago, if I remember the reports, blacks, women and young people voted in greater numbers than before and they favoured Obama. This time around, if blacks, women and younger voters stay at home, Obama will lose.
Voters don't win you elections. Stay at homes lose you elections.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
I suspect that most of the "undecided" voters are really "unenthusiastic" ones. I can readily imagine being unwilling to say that you're "for" either of these guys. The real question is whether they can muster enough civic responsibility to trudge to the poll and pull the lever for either one.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
|
Posted
I can see being undecided, but I can't understand being uninterested. How can Americans be uninterested in an election which is, in effect, a referendum on Social Security, universal access to health insurance, a progressive income tax system, AND abortion rights? There's no doubt about the parties' positions on those issues, and they are issues that affect everyone personally. Bumper sticker version: it's a choice between the 19th century and the 21st.
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
How can Americans be uninterested in an election which is, in effect, a referendum on Social Security, universal access to health insurance, a progressive income tax system, AND abortion rights? ... Bumper sticker version: it's a choice between the 19th century and the 21st.
Please.
I tend to think that the majority of Americans, while they may agree with your list of referenda issues, are much more concerned about the economy and jobs. Can't understand why you left those two out.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
I suspect that most of the "undecided" voters are really "unenthusiastic" ones. I can readily imagine being unwilling to say that you're "for" either of these guys. The real question is whether they can muster enough civic responsibility to trudge to the poll and pull the lever for either one.
--Tom Clune
I'm afraid that would include me. But I'll be there, hoping that somehow we can undo this mess. And, New Yorker, all those things SM mentioned bear directly on, and are touted as remedies or responses to economic and job-related issues.
[ 15. October 2012, 17:49: Message edited by: TomOfTarsus ]
--------------------
By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I tend to think that the majority of Americans, while they may agree with your list of referenda issues, are much more concerned about the economy and jobs. Can't understand why you left those two out.
Us 47-percenters don't give a hoot about jobs and the economy. I thought you knew that...
--Tom Clune
[ 15. October 2012, 17:50: Message edited by: tclune ]
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
How can Americans be uninterested in an election which is, in effect, a referendum on Social Security, universal access to health insurance, a progressive income tax system, AND abortion rights? ... Bumper sticker version: it's a choice between the 19th century and the 21st.
Please.
I tend to think that the majority of Americans, while they may agree with your list of referenda issues, are much more concerned about the economy and jobs. Can't understand why you left those two out.
No matter who is elected, the economy will still be bad. Even Romney has admitted he won't be able to fix the economy in 4 years and some of us doubt going back to the Bush era policies will bring anything back at all. With respect to the issues of Social Security, universal access to health care, progressive income tax, etc. who is elected will make a huge difference. It's why I won't be doing my 3rd party vote this year, there is too much to lose.
--------------------
"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
I suspect that most of the "undecided" voters are really "unenthusiastic" ones. I can readily imagine being unwilling to say that you're "for" either of these guys. The real question is whether they can muster enough civic responsibility to trudge to the poll and pull the lever for either one.
--Tom Clune
That describes me. For the first time ever I skipped voting in the primary and was intending to skip the general election as well. I feel both candidates are incompetent fools and the entire election process simply bread and circuses for the chattering class. Unfortunately my son has been asking questions about the election after seeing lawn signs as we walk to school. So I'll have to show him what a responsible citizen looks like though I probably will not cast a vote for president. I'll let him earn his cynicism the hard way.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
|
Posted
Well, let's see:
Family planning, birth control and abortion - Families can plan when they have children and how many, how big a house they need, when they move in and out of the workforce, when they start saving for college, etc.
Social security - whether or not it exists in the future will have an impact on private sector employment, wages and pension plans today.
Universal access to affordable health insurance - also has an impact on employment, wages and benefits. Linking health benefits to employment is a drag on economic growth and labour mobility.
Progressive income tax system - If a person lives off $200,000/year of investment income and suddently gets $20,000, they will probably stick it in a mutual fund or add it to their IRA or leverage an investment property. If someone earning $20,000/year suddently gets $2,000, they will spend every penny on groceries, clothes, rent, and maybe a movie night and dinner at Olive Garden. Both benefit the economy and create jobs in different ways; how should they be balanced?
Social issues ARE economic issues.
--------------------
"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
So you think Romeny will end Social Security, ban health care and eliminate the income tax?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
So you think Romeny will end Social Security,
He has said he will. But I suppose you're right; he's hardly trustworthy and keeps changing his mind and contradicting himself (and his handlers) on a daily basis.
quote:
ban health care and eliminate the income tax?
Who mentioned either of those possibilities? Non sequitur. Try to stick to what people are actually saying. Makes the convo go smoother; makes your posts more serious-takeable.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
So you think Romeny will end Social Security, ban health care and eliminate the income tax?
It's not a matter of thinking; it's a matter of listening. The stated Romney-Ryan positions are: ban abortion; privatize Social Security; repeal the Affordable Care Act; and lower taxes on high-income earners. These are not secrets or mysteries. How far a Romney-Ryan administration would be able to progress (or regress, depending on how you look at it) on these fronts is a matter of speculation, and partly depends on Congress and SCOTUS, but that doesn't change their stated goals.
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
moron
Shipmate
# 206
|
Posted
Just saw Axelrod on Chris Wallace's Sunday show (IMO he gives both sides adequate amounts of hell) ... his demeanor was different somehow than what I've perceived in the past.
ISTM the fact they've lost momentum is coming home.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
ISTM the fact they've lost momentum is coming home.
I don't think it's that they've lost momentum, but that Obama threw the momentum away. I think the debate highlighted a significant undertone that has largely gone unnoticed before that -- Romney is the quintessential over-achiever, and Obama is the ultimate slacker who has gifts and potential up the wazoo but steadfastly refuses to live up to them. When the going gets rough, Romney digs deeper: when the going gets easy, Obama goes home. That's a real problem for POTUS.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
ban abortion
Would that that were true!
quote:
privatize Social Security
That is not Romney's position. See here.
quote:
repeal the Affordable Care Act
Damn right! See here.
quote:
lower taxes on high-income earners
Actually he wants to lower taxes for everyone. See here.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Obama is the ultimate slacker who has gifts and potential up the wazoo but steadfastly refuses to live up to them. When the going gets rough, Romney digs deeper: when the going gets easy, Obama goes home. That's a real problem for POTUS.
Sorry for the double post, but I can't resist: Eastwood's empty chair was more accurate than many thought.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
privatize Social Security
That is not Romney's position. See here.
Well, it's not his position today. Four years ago he was gung ho for the idea. And someone should really take Paul Ryan aside and explain this to him.
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
repeal the Affordable Care Act
Damn right! See here.
Because what could be more terrible or tyrannical than the kind of system Mitt Romney instituted in Massachusetts? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
lower taxes on high-income earners
Actually he wants to lower taxes for everyone. See here.
Haven't we done this "cut everyone's taxes, increase spending (especially on the military), and the deficit will shrink" tango before? You'd think the fact that this never works would cause some people to feel shame when suggesting it, but I guess Romney has no capacity for that particular emotional state.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
Well, it has come to this.
They are pre-fact checking the debate tonight.
These guys are so boring and predictable that we can know what lies they will tell before they even step on stage.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Well, it has come to this.
They are pre-fact checking the debate tonight.
These guys are so boring and predictable that we can know what lies they will tell before they even step on stage.
Somebody needs to create a Bullshit Bingo game for the debate.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
Sure, but don't make it a drinking game -- I can't afford to get that drunk on a Tuesday night.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Photo Geek
Shipmate
# 9757
|
Posted
Now Ryan has been caught faking charity work. A good catholic boy should have known better. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
--------------------
"Liberal Christian" is not an oxymoron.
Posts: 242 | From: Southern Ohio, US | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Sure, but don't make it a drinking game -- I can't afford to get that drunk on a Tuesday night.
I agree. Hicup!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Photo Geek:
Now Ryan has been caught faking charity work. A good catholic boy should have known better.
Consider it a synthesis of his Catholicism and his Randian Objectivism. His Catholic side urges him to be charitable, but the Randroid in him says that charity is morally evil. So he engages in "charity" that actually helps no one (except himself in photo ops). The perfect synthesis!
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
... Obama threw the momentum away. ... Obama is the ultimate slacker who has gifts and potential up the wazoo but steadfastly refuses to live up to them. ... when the going gets easy, Obama goes home. ...
Nope, no racist sterotypes to see here. Move along.
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Nope, no racist sterotypes to see here. Move along.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
If there's a stereotype there -- and I'm kind of squinting to see it -- it's a generational one.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
If there's a stereotype there -- and I'm kind of squinting to see it -- it's a generational one.
It's along the lines of someone from fairly humble beginnings, who has had to work hard at every stage (e.g. president of Harvard Law Review) being described a shiftless layabout squandering his potential, while a governor's son who was also born the heir to incredible wealth is described as an "over-achiever" who "digs deeper".
I'm sure the fact that these opposite-land portrayals just so happen to fit some very old and ugly stereotypes is purely coincidental.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I'm sure the fact that these opposite-land portrayals just so happen to fit some very old and ugly stereotypes is purely coincidental.
Right. That's the only explanation. It couldn't possibly be noting that Obama just plain zoned out at the pivotal point in his campaign. It just has to be racism. Give me a break.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
A pivotal point, let's hope. There's a second debate tonight, after all.
Has Obama been a slacker? I can't say; I have no idea what he does behind the scenes. I do think he's failed to shine in the communications department.
Just tonight I saw a Romney ad accusing Obama of a "failed stimulus," yet I haven't seen any ads from the Obama side touting some of the actual accomplishments made possible by the stimulus, or that fact that much? Most? Some? A substantial amount? has been paid back. (I know, or think I know, that some has, but I haven't found it especially easy to track down actual facts. Maybe my google-fu needs vitamins.).
I wish the Obama people would stop assuming we great unwashed all know all about their "good works." We don't, and it's high time to stop being so damn quiet about them. They aren't so numerous as to justify a tight hold on modesty in the face of an election.
Obama has not lived up to my expectations in a number of regards. Guantanamo is still operating. We still have legal surveillance of private citizens. There's more, but I've just been paged.
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
... yet I haven't seen any ads from the Obama side touting some of the actual accomplishments made possible by the stimulus...
Are there any?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
|
Posted
Isn't Biden a walking talking ad on that with his GM schtick?
--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
