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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: A 2012 US election thread
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
To follow up, looking at county by county break-downs makes Indiana look like less of an outlier. Here's 2004, when there wasn't an Illinois native running.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
This article touches on the demographic challenges.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
A crazy aunt just emailed me that a newly elected Democratic Congresswoman, Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindu and she is going to be sworn in on the Bhagavad Gita. Apparently, this is an indication of end times.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
We support freedom of religion, BUT WE DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD COME TO THIS!!!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet regarding the Electoral College:
yep. it's still stupid. in this day and age, there is no point to the electoral college.
It's going to be difficult at this point to put together a Constitutional amendment to change it because too many people will be wanting to take the opportunity to make other changes. (For those watching from overseas, it requires approval of 34 states, and often takes years.)
However, each state is free to choose their Electors in whatever manner they wish. To change things, convince your state to pass the
National Popular Vote bill. This says that, once it is approved by States representing over half the Electoral College, each signing state will assign their votes to the candidate that wins the National Popular Vote. That solves the problem without having to change the Constitution.
So far they have 132 votes - 49% of the way there.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
So now that the Republican obstructionists can't make Obama a one-term president, and term limits will make sure he's only a two-term president, will they stop being do obstructionist?
Naaah, what am I thinking? The only thing to be seen is what ghastly excuse they'll think of next to be rigidly unpatriotically obstructionist.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Dear Florida: Stop sulking and call it in, FFS.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carex:
quote:
Originally posted by comet regarding the Electoral College:
yep. it's still stupid. in this day and age, there is no point to the electoral college.
It's going to be difficult at this point to put together a Constitutional amendment to change it because too many people will be wanting to take the opportunity to make other changes. (For those watching from overseas, it requires approval of 34 states, and often takes years.)
Thirty-eight states. Amending the U.S. Constitution requires a two-thirds vote in both houses of the federal Congress followed by ratification by three-quarters of the states.
An alternate method is two-thirds of state legislatures (which is where I suspect you get the number 34 from) can call for a Constitutional Convention, which is then free to propose any number of amendments or even re-write the Constitution wholesale. The proposed amendments/new Constitution would then have to be ratified by thirty-eight states. This latter method has never been used.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
The third alternative is to have state ratifying conventions approve the amendment in lieu of state legislatures. This has only been done once with the 21st Amendment, which repealed the 18th Amendment (Prohibition). Congress makes the choice when it submits the proposal to the states.
Some states have laws which specify that the state legislature is the constitutional convention, making the choice moot.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
A crazy aunt just emailed me that a newly elected Democratic Congresswoman, Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindu and she is going to be sworn in on the Bhagavad Gita. Apparently, this is an indication of end times.
David Brooks, in today's conversation with Gail Collins, quotes himself from an earlier column:
quote:
“I sometimes wonder if the Republican Party has become the receding roar of white America as it pines for a way of life that will never return.”
He nailed it--"Leave It To Beaver" America is gone and it ain't coming back. And good riddance. If the Republican Party wants to survive, it has to come to terms with that. I'll be the first to say that a democracy needs at least two vital parties with serious ideas for dealing with real problems. Our current tragedy is that we have approximately .95 such parties, on a good day.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
A crazy aunt just emailed me that a newly elected Democratic Congresswoman, Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindu and she is going to be sworn in on the Bhagavad Gita. Apparently, this is an indication of end times.
You should have mentioned Tulsi is from Hawaii. She's clearly part of the conspiracy to conceal Obama's true birthplace, and is now being rewarded for her role.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
@ Kelly Alves
(Very possibly an ignorant view from this side of the pond re the delay over Florida)
Florida count.
I found this website and have been checking it from time to time. The statewide votes received column has been changing gradually over the past 24 hours, but showing an Obama lead of about 50,000 votes throughout.
I suppose the absence of a formal declaration is connected with some statutory requirement to recount if the difference is less than 0.5% - I think that is the case. It's just over 0.5% at present. It doesn't look as though completing the count of absentee ballots (plus maybe some other necessary checks?) will affect the totals all that much but I suppose it is still possible that the final result might trigger a recount.
On the face of it, Obama will win, but if a recount is triggered confirmation of that may be some time coming.
Apologies if this is rubbish. Perhaps not surprisingly, the final Florida result is not exactly a very hot topic.
Overall, Obama looks to have won the popular vote by close to 2.5% (Nate Silver strikes again) as well as the Electoral College by 126 votes. I don't understand folks saying this isn't a mandate. As Croesos observed upstream, there have been closer elections than this. The advance publicity suggesting a cliff-hanger struck me as media hype, rather than a sober look at the probable outcome.
[ 08. November 2012, 07:12: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
A crazy aunt just emailed me that a newly elected Democratic Congresswoman, Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindu and she is going to be sworn in on the Bhagavad Gita. Apparently, this is an indication of end times.
David Brooks, in today's conversation with Gail Collins, quotes himself from an earlier column:
quote:
“I sometimes wonder if the Republican Party has become the receding roar of white America as it pines for a way of life that will never return.”
He nailed it--"Leave It To Beaver" America is gone and it ain't coming back. And good riddance. If the Republican Party wants to survive, it has to come to terms with that. I'll be the first to say that a democracy needs at least two vital parties with serious ideas for dealing with real problems. Our current tragedy is that we have approximately .95 such parties, on a good day.
I noticed recently that some reviews of Tom Wolfe's new novel 'Back to Blood', described it as a last shriek by the dying breed of WASP, surrounded by non-WASPs. It's set in Miami, so I guess Wolfe can do his delirious thing about non-white America (haven't read it).
So many American elections seem to end up with a recount in Florida, which is almost a kind of symbolic recapitulation of the 'state of the nation'.
[ 08. November 2012, 08:32: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Here is another view of the exit poll results re demography.
I'm hoping it might help a serious ongoing discussion of demographic issues, including race. (I agree with RuthW on that). I'm conscious that race is a very emotive issue, so I'm posting this with some concern about impact. I hope we can look at the evidence objectively.
And, as already observed, when considering demographic distinctions, everyone will belong in more than one category.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Here is another view of the exit poll results re demography.
What strikes me most about those exit polls is that Romney won some large groups, but lost some of the small groups SO BADLY that it didn't even out.
Race is one example. But religion was another one that caught my eye. Protestants are easily the largest group, and those exit polls say Romney won Protestants, but he lost the Catholics and got absolutely belted in the "other" and "none" categories - in fact, worse in the "other".
He won those that attend religious services weekly, but they're outnumbered.
I was also struck by the education graphs, which indicate that Romney won college graduates (a large bloc) but lost all the other categories, both above and below that.
And finally, income seems to be a good predictor of votes. And there are more low income earners than there are high income earners. I tend to think Romney did himself major injury with the remark about 47% of the population. The Democrats were already working to paint him as elite and out of touch, and he fed them a golden quote.
[ 08. November 2012, 09:45: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
But, realistically, if some white people voted based on race, some black people did too.
Of course. But probably not enough to influence the result of the election in more than a few, if any, states.
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Illinois only goes blue for the sake of Chicago, and Ohio because of cities like Cleveland. Indianapolis is growing, but Indiana wasn't historically a population center. If you factor out Chicago, Indiana and Illinois are practically the same place in terms of values and political predilections.
And Iowa? Not a lot of car factories and coalmines there.
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
I think my confusion is that when it is an exit poll it is clear that it is a prediction, whereas last night (and I was tired so may not have been at my most astute) the BBC site seemed to be counted as EC votes in the bag then I heard on the radio that those states had only called, not finished the count.
Yes, but that really is the same as they do here. If you watch BBC election coverage at a UK general election they will make tentative predictions about the final composition of Parliament from the first few results. They often make confident predictions about 3 or 4 am when there are still hundreds of seats left to announce - its just that rural sheep in Devon tend not to vote Labour. There have been election nights when Prime Minister has resigned on the basis of assumptions about undeclared constituencies.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Haven't polling companies tested out the 'he won because he's black' thesis?
It wouldn't be difficult. Just take several variables, e.g. gender, race, party, perm, and then give each formulation to a standard group of voters.
Thus, black male Republican versus white female Democrat, etc.
It would be very artificial, and ignores personalities and policies, but possibly revealing.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
quetzalcoatl: I guess it's on the cusp? Astonishing how few states have shifted.
To the contrary: what's really astonishing is that almost all states have shifted. Those northern states in Green on your civil war map voted Lincoln, while the southern states in red on the map voted Democrat.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
quetzalcoatl: I guess it's on the cusp? Astonishing how few states have shifted.
To the contrary: what's really astonishing is that almost all states have shifted. Those northern states in Green on your civil war map voted Lincoln, while the southern states in red on the map voted Democrat.
Very true. And indeed, if you look at elections from the early part of the 20th century, it's still the case then that the South is the bastion of Democrat voting. The first time I can see a noticeable Republican bloc down there is 1964.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I was also struck by the education graphs, which indicate that Romney won college graduates (a large bloc) but lost all the other categories, both above and below that.
What struck me about the education graph was that it was essentially a toss-up except at the two extremes -- those who hadn't graduated from high school and thos who had post-graduate education both went overwhelmingly for Obama. Those groups seem like strange bedfellows...
--Tom Clune
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This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
quetzalcoatl: I guess it's on the cusp? Astonishing how few states have shifted.
To the contrary: what's really astonishing is that almost all states have shifted. Those northern states in Green on your civil war map voted Lincoln, while the southern states in red on the map voted Democrat.
But isn't that because the parties have flipped? I thought the Democrats were traditionally the pro-segregationists, until they peeled off to the Republicans. Is that incorrect? Although I think Carter still won a lot of the Southern states.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
And Iowa? Not a lot of car factories and coalmines there.
Y'know, people from the coasts often go on about how rural Indiana is, but it's really more defined by small industrial towns. But these towns are pretty isolated, and are definitely not cosmopolitan places that foster progressive ideas.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
quetzalcoatl: I guess it's on the cusp? Astonishing how few states have shifted.
To the contrary: what's really astonishing is that almost all states have shifted. Those northern states in Green on your civil war map voted Lincoln, while the southern states in red on the map voted Democrat.
Not that astonishing. What would've been more astonishing is if the status quo had been maintained after the Democrats embraced civil rights and the Republicans had completed the transformation from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Strom Thurmond.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Crœsos: Not that astonishing. What would've been more astonishing is if the status quo had been maintained after the Democrats embraced civil rights and the Republicans had completed the transformation from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Strom Thurmond.
I know about this of course, but mostly from heaving read about it. This happened in the sixties, right? So there must be Shipmates from the US who were alive at the time. Maybe they could try to explain how this felt?
I mean, I can read about it, but I already feel dizzy thinking about it. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if in my native Holland right-wing VVD and left-wing PvdA would just switch ideological positions. I doubt that the electorate would simply say: "Alright, I'm going to vote PvdA then." Most probably, both parties would lose almost all of their votes.
Another thing that struck me about the US election when you look at the county-by-county breakdown, is how much this is really a rural vs. urban thing. This isn't very surprising, also in my country the cities vote much more left-wing than the countryside.
But what if left-wing parties really succeeded in reaching out to rural communities?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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MarsmanTJ
Shipmate
# 8689
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
A crazy aunt just emailed me that a newly elected Democratic Congresswoman, Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindu and she is going to be sworn in on the Bhagavad Gita. Apparently, this is an indication of end times.
Better that than the Bible which pretty clearly tells you not to swear by anything on heaven or earth... I still don't know how people justify that one!
Posts: 238 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
LeRoc
How come if you know about the parties shifting position, you said above that, 'what's really astonishing is that almost all states have shifted'.
Doesn't make sense that all states would shift from one party to another, unless, those parties had themselves shifted position, does it?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Photo Geek
Shipmate
# 9757
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Posted
I live in rural SE Ohio. In my county Romney had only 150 more votes (about 1 percent)than Pres. Obama. I was very suprised by several GOP friends who said that they had voted for the President.
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"Liberal Christian" is not an oxymoron.
Posts: 242 | From: Southern Ohio, US | Registered: Jul 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
What I find baffling is the line that I'm hearing from some quarters of the Republican party that Obama's Get the Vote Out effort amounts to dirty tricks. Surely encouraging everybody to vote who's entitled to is part of the nature of representative democracy? There was nothing stopping the other side from launching a similar campaign to get people out who otherwise would have stayed at home. Unless they thought that people staying at home was going to be good for them.
Actually, I'm quite surprised to see that turn-out in US Presidential elections is so low, relatively speaking. In France, something like 85% of the population votes in a presidential election (granted this has gone up a bit since the débacle where the National Front got into the second round, but not that much). The highest proportion of the US wasn't those voting for the winner. They didn't vote for anyone.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
And Iowa? Not a lot of car factories and coalmines there.
Y'know, people from the coasts often go on about how rural Indiana is, but it's really more defined by small industrial towns. But these towns are pretty isolated, and are definitely not cosmopolitan places that foster progressive ideas.
I was in Indianapolis once. The city did not strike me as significantly different from other large, American cities in the north. On the road out to the airport, it was as if I had driven into Kentucky. The attitudes, the speech; everything was very different even though no physical separation existed between the city and the outlying communities.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I was also struck by the education graphs, which indicate that Romney won college graduates (a large bloc) but lost all the other categories, both above and below that.
What struck me about the education graph was that it was essentially a toss-up except at the two extremes -- those who hadn't graduated from high school and thos who had post-graduate education both went overwhelmingly for Obama. Those groups seem like strange bedfellows...
Those are very interesting observations.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Meanwhile, back on "Florida Watch".
According to this (c 11 hours ago), Miami-Dade will finish the count on Thursday. To quote the newly elected president, there is a need to "fix this" - meaning the long queues, the long delays in voting. Perhaps a few other things need fixing as well?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I know about this of course, but mostly from heaving read about it. This happened in the sixties, right? So there must be Shipmates from the US who were alive at the time. Maybe they could try to explain how this felt?
I mean, I can read about it, but I already feel dizzy thinking about it. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if in my native Holland right-wing VVD and left-wing PvdA would just switch ideological positions. I doubt that the electorate would simply say: "Alright, I'm going to vote PvdA then." Most probably, both parties would lose almost all of their votes.
The shift can be fairly clearly illustrated by two Presidential election maps. First check out 1956. Now 1964. These two landslide elections, separated by only eight years, are almost exact mirror images of each other. So what happened between 1956 and 1964 to almost completely reverse the electoral map? Short answer: the Civil Rights Movement.
Of course, this is something most Americans know about in the back of their heads, but never talk about.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Carter's election map is interesting (76), and I suppose he was the last Democrat to win big chunks of the South, although I guess Bill Clinton won a few Southern states.
http://tinyurl.com/d6a956s
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I mean, I can read about it, but I already feel dizzy thinking about it. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if in my native Holland right-wing VVD and left-wing PvdA would just switch ideological positions. I doubt that the electorate would simply say: "Alright, I'm going to vote PvdA then."
It took forty or fifty years. FDR positioned his administration as liberal, or even radical, on race back in the 1930s. Then, as Croesos just said northern Democrats became strong political supporters of civil rights in the 50s and 60s, which is when the flip happened - but it had been building for decades. And LBJ's presidency put the seal on it.
Even then there was a lot of residual automatic support for Democrats in local and state elections. Apparently, so we are told, there were cities and counties in the South where pro-segregationist white people would turn out in huge numbers to vote for pro-segregationist Democrats for their city councils and state legislatures, but also vote for Nixon or Reagan for President. The generation who were adult before FDR had to start to die off before Republicans could start taking contol of Southern legislatures.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
[tangent]
Anyone suspect that our very own home grown Mad Mel has finally jumped the shark?
[/tangent]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Anyone suspect that our very own home grown Mad Mel has finally jumped the shark?
No. That column shows her to be am ignorant bigoted hardline rightwing lying racist bitch. That's hardly news.
Ignorant, because her standard for judging foreign politicians is how many Arabs and Muslims they want to kill, and she hasn't realised that Obama has been killing lots. Which is why the only countries outside the USA where he is more unpopular than his republican rivals are Pakistan and some Arab countries.
[ 08. November 2012, 14:32: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Anyone suspect that our very own home grown Mad Mel has finally jumped the shark?
No. That column shows her to be am ignorant bigoted hardline rightwing lying racist bitch. That's hardly news.
Ignorant, because her standard for judging foreign politicians is how many Arabs and Muslims they want to kill, and she hasn't realised that Obama has been killing lots. Which is why the only countries outside the USA where he is more unpopular than his republican rivals are Pakistan and some Arab countries.
Don't know anything about Melanie Phillips, but one of the conservative criticisms of Obama is that he's not killing enough Arabs and Muslims. Sure, he's killing them in one-offs and handfull lots with drones, but winding down the Iraq War has really hampered the Muslim-killing.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
It is a fairly off-the-edge piece by anyone's standards.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's kind of Manichean, isn't it, with the forces of darkness lowering over the world, opposed only by a few brave souls like Mel, and I suppose, Donald Trump?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I'm always fascinated at how well organised the forces of evil are. As opposed to the forces of good that seem to be so appallingly disorganised and can't actually find a decent figurehead to lead them into battle.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It's kind of Manichean, isn't it, with the forces of darkness lowering over the world, opposed only by a few brave souls like Mel, and I suppose, Donald Trump?
Something for supposedly professional columnists to consider when writing about America's first African-American president: is the use of metaphors like "darkness" or "black" to express your distaste for Obama absolutely necessary to making your case? And is that case important enough to make that you're comfortable having your writing cited with approval for your likely unintended meaning on websites like Stormfront?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I had to laugh at her point that Obama was being persuaded not to kill Bin Laden, which, she says, is 'not substantiated but all too credible'.
That is priceless really. He did kill Bin Laden, but it's very credible that he might not have. Is there a name for this? Counter-factual lunacy, I suppose.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Could somebody explain something for me? It may be already covered, but this thread has now reached 70 pages and I haven't been following it. I tried to find out about it four years ago, but didn't succeed. All political cultures have things that are mystifying to foreigners.
What is the electoral college for?
Or is it just there because it's there?
I know it chooses the President, but why not just count up all the votes? That would give a more reliable result and prevent the situation where a person can become President with less votes than the loser.
It doesn't, so far as I can see, carry on doing anything the rest of the time. Isn't it the two houses of the Congress that do that? So the President doesn't have to rely on the support of his electors to carry out his policies.
Who belongs to it? Are they important people, or party nonentities, chosen because they can spare two or three days off work to fly to wherever it meets, vote for their two names and then fly home again?
Does it actually assemble, or can they send in their votes by post?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
I mean, I can read about it, but I already feel dizzy thinking about it. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if in my native Holland right-wing VVD and left-wing PvdA would just switch ideological positions. I doubt that the electorate would simply say: "Alright, I'm going to vote PvdA then." Most probably, both parties would lose almost all of their votes
If you analyze things closely enough, you can probably find similar APPARENT switches in other countries.
Up until the mid-20th Century, for example, the Canadian Liberal Party was the more pro-American and anti-British of the two parties, the Conservatives being the more anti-American and pro-British. After the mid-60s, they switched sides on the American thing, though neither is particularly pro-British anymore, Harper's festish for the monarchy notwithstanding.
In the American context, it might help if you think of the Democrats as the party that has traditionally been on the side of those who are "on the outs" with industrial capitalism. This meant, basically, southern agrarians(including slaveholders), and northern urban workers(largely of new-immigrant stock).
In the 19th Century, blacks and northern industry shared a common interest in the eradication of the southern caste-based economy, hence their mutual support for the Republicans. By the time of the New Deal, these two factions had begun to diverge in terms of the benefits they were deriving from industrial capitalism.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
I expect that counts as subtle compared with quote:
a sulky narcissist with an unbroken history of involvement in thuggish, corrupt, far-left, black power, Jew-bashing, west-hating politics.
I'm surprised she didn't actually manage to use the phrase "heart of darkness".
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
What is the electoral college for?
It's an 18th-century anomaly, left over because the Founding Fathers didn't trust the Mob to have the sense to elect the right person president. At one time, I believe the electors were chosen by the state legislators in some states. Regardless, the Founding Fathers expected the Electors would rarely be able to come to a decision, thereby allowing Congress to decide.
Obviously, it has changed to be a bit more democratic than that, but if you are looking for a rationale for its existence that makes sense, you will be searching for a long, long time.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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