Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Internet Porn
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Cod: quote: Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...: One thing that there is some evidence for is the noticeable increase in cosmetic surgery on female genitals - they are not entirely sure why the rapid increase, but one of the reasons that is suggested is internet porn
Would you say this is worse than liposuction or a new nose? If so why?
The articles say that it is worse than nose surgery, certainly, because there's no research into the damage done or the understanding of what is normal. Nose surgery has had a lot of research and work done for medical reasons and people are likely to have some discussions about their psychological state before they just get a nose job unless there is structural damage or medical reasons for the surgery.
Liposuction doesn't have the best reputation in the press, but it was really difficult to find any research but what I did find suggests that it doesn't actually work in the long term - a year later belly fat has returned and thigh fat is returning.
-------------------- Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Late Paul: It might be but so might crossing the road on my way to work this morning. What I believe is harmful - because I've experienced this harm personally - is the effect on naive minds of overly harsh scare-mongering about pretty ordinary sexual feelings.
This wants repeating. Not necessarily in order to negate anything that others are saying, but just - it needs to be taken into account.
-------------------- The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Cod: Would you say this is worse than liposuction or a new nose? If so why?
I don't know - but many, many women have stitches in the area after childbirth. Personally I find reasons for any unnecessary surgery completely confusing.
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I wrote a post up thread containing lots of things I remembered from an article I had read. I thought those things might add interest to the discussion. I believed I had made it clear that this was someone elses article and not mine but people are quoting lines from it under my name as though I wrote them and was 100% on board with all of them. Please note: The name of the article is "Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked Our Sexuality," and was wrtten by Gail Dines, not me.
Some of her points rang true for me. I do think it can't be good for very young boys to have all their first encounters with sex through raw porn sites.
I don't know if Dines says anything about porn as addictive, it isn't in my post, I just don't remember, but I've never bought into the idea of non-chemical addictions very much.
The slide into harder core porn over time does sound possible to me, simply because we tend to become inured to many things over time. Movies, for example, have become far more violent over my lifetime. In any case, she is only talking about the effects on some people so personal anecdotes of how it didn't effect oneself don't make her wrong.
In any case, I brought up the points she made to add possible talking points to the conversation, not because I believed them all or because I intended to back them with empirical evidence. She may do that in her book, I don't know. ----------------- Anyway. Thats what Gail Dines thinks. Here's what I think. Jesus seemed to believe lust was a bad thing. Most of us lust anyway. It slips up on us at work, on the street, at the park, over and over, all we can do is try not to let it wreck our relationships or take over our lives -- but sitting down to the computer and going to a porn site, is intentional, pre-meditated lust and that doesn't seem like a beneficial thing to me.
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Twilight: Anyway. Thats what Gail Dines thinks. Here's what I think. Jesus seemed to believe lust was a bad thing. Most of us lust anyway. It slips up on us at work, on the street, at the park ...
If you were thinking of the same bible passage as I am now thinking of, then that probably requires another thread altogether (I have a feeling that it already has been a thread (??)) Briefly, I've always taken it to be more about hypocrisy than lust, as such.
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote: Matthew 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
I suppose it could be about hypocrisy if someone is bragging about obeying the commandment against adultery while lusting in his heart. I think the main message of the whole chapter is that we should try to take all of the commandments a step further than just the mimimum requirement. Whatever other points Jesus was trying to make, it seems clear to me that he is comparing lust with adultery and doesn't think either one is a good thing. YMMV
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: quote: Originally posted by Jade Constable: quote: Originally posted by Snags: Point of clarification on "BBW" - in the contexts I've seen it, it was actually moderately affirmative, in that it was "Big Beautiful Women". Only moderately affirmative, because it was still in the context of flogging images to blokes to crack one off to.
Also, I'm aware these things can change. I still have to do a double-take every time one of the yoof at church posts "FTW!" on Facebook. When I was growing up, it certainly didn't mean "for the win" ...
The BBW thing is interesting. I'm a (self-identifying) fat woman involved in fat activism and generally places that identify as for BBW tend to be like you describe, and have nothing to do with the politics of empowering women.
Ah yes, but are you beautiful??
Yes.
-------------------- Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Its weird how unsupported opinion becomes respectable if five minutes on Google can find a web page written by someone with the same opinions.
-------------------- Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Lots of people find big women beautiful.
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Twilight: Lots of people find big women beautiful.
And there are porn sites catering to them.
-------------------- When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. - C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure: quote: Originally posted by Twilight: Lots of people find big women beautiful.
And there are porn sites catering to them.
Oh, I'm quite sure there would be!
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Looks like third-wave, "pro-sex" feminism isn't catching on everywhere...
UK Women's Group Plans 50 Shades Of Grey Book Burning
Mind you, I don't exactly know if this group qualifies as feminist, or just a new variation on Disgusted In Tunbridge Wells. They talk about "sexism and misogyny"(typically feminist concerns), but the whole book-burning thing reminds me of this.
In any case, I'll always defend the right to burn books, as long as they're you're the OWNER of the books. Still, though, the optics are really bad on that one. As I once heard a Chirstian stand-up comic observe about bonfires against Harry Potter: "If Hitler did it, maybe go in the other direction".
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Levavi
Shipmate
# 14371
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Posted
Apologies, really, for the interruption here, as I largely agree with what the majority of posters have said about porn (exploitation, cheapening, etc.). But let's just be clear that this is not necessarily an issue of men exploiting women (though I'm not sure that anyone has said that, explicitly). What about those of us that are gay? (It's a little unfortunate that a discussion of the wrongs of porn leads me to feel left out, but I frequently feel called to remind the majority that there is a minority of us who are not attracted to the opposite sex.)
-------------------- Christ, Mighty Savior, Light of all creation.
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gorpo
Shipmate
# 17025
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ecumaniac: quote: Originally posted by Cod: I expect technology will soon create computer-generated porn that doesn't require filming of any real person and thus avoid this issue.
I think instead, technology will soon develop so that ordinary people will be able to cheaply and easily film porn themselves and then share it with other people, thus avoiding the need for porn companies to potentially exploit actors.
Oh wait, this has started happening already.
But ordinary people are not so interesting to watch as professional actors.
This forum seem to have come to some type of consesus that any sex between consenting adults that doesn´t hurt or damage anyone else cannot be wrong. Therefore, porn can only be wrong if the actors are being exploited or its going to have bad psychological consequences of the viewers.
So what if the actors are not being exploited, in fact they´re getting paid to do what many others dream of, or what if there are no damaging consequences of porn on your mental or physical health?
We seem to completely leave behind the idea of "illicit sexual relations"... what if some things were wrong in themselves, regardless of having bad consequences on your health or being consensual...
Posts: 247 | From: Brazil | Registered: Apr 2012
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
Page 3 is porn, but it doesn't involve sexual relations.
-------------------- "I fart in your general direction." M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Cod: Page 3 is porn, but it doesn't involve sexual relations.
Exactly, so somewhere or other a line needs to be drawn between what is acceptable and what is not. But I feel at present the bar has been set far too low and needs to be raised a bit.
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Twilight: quote: Matthew 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
I suppose it could be about hypocrisy if someone is bragging about obeying the commandment against adultery while lusting in his heart. I think the main message of the whole chapter is that we should try to take all of the commandments a step further than just the mimimum requirement. Whatever other points Jesus was trying to make, it seems clear to me that he is comparing lust with adultery and doesn't think either one is a good thing. YMMV
Well of course, this can only be conjecture, on both our parts, since Jesus had a nasty habit of either responding to something in an entirely unexpected way, or merely throwing another, rather cryptic, question back (and that's without even touching issues of mis-reporting, mis-translation etc). So I can only say that what you take to be the main message ('going a step further') is precisely what I thought Jesus was criticising the Pharisees and Saducees for ... and why? - because it lead to hypocrisy. Witness the automatic tut-tutting among many people in settled relationships, whenever they are referring to someone who has cheated on their partners - as if that shows the tut-tutters to be of stronger moral fibre. Still, as I say, that's just my take.
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by gorpo: ...what if some things were wrong in themselves, regardless of having bad consequences on your health or being consensual...
Any plausible examples???
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Cod: Page 3 is porn, but it doesn't involve sexual relations.
Bill Hicks did a good routine about porn's formal definition: ' a creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire' ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcefX9TPlkY
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: quote: Originally posted by Cod: Page 3 is porn, but it doesn't involve sexual relations.
Exactly, so somewhere or other a line needs to be drawn between what is acceptable and what is not. But I feel at present the bar has been set far too low and needs to be raised a bit.
Back to the good ol' days of the top shelf, eh??
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Levavi: Apologies, really, for the interruption here, as I largely agree with what the majority of posters have said about porn (exploitation, cheapening, etc ...
Thing is, I'm not sure I agree with even that - My gut feeling is that there are hundreds and hundreds of jobs out there which are far more unpleasant/ depressing/ arduous/ dead-end/ low-grade, AND which pay a lot less, to boot. How come you never hear a fuss being kicked up about those kind of jobs? Toilet cleaner, anyone? Where's the dignity or reward in that?
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by gorpo: But ordinary people are not so interesting to watch as professional actors.
Oh, I dunno. In some circumstances, give me enthusiastic amateurs over pros any day (production values notwithstanding)
-------------------- it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: quote: Originally posted by Cod: Page 3 is porn, but it doesn't involve sexual relations.
Exactly, so somewhere or other a line needs to be drawn between what is acceptable and what is not. But I feel at present the bar has been set far too low and needs to be raised a bit.
Back to the good ol' days of the top shelf, eh??
Sure, yes - it would be an improvement wouldn't it? But I don't quite get what you mean - that sort of magazine still is on the top shelf, the problem is more extreme forms of porn which get transmitted through other types of media.
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: ...Toilet cleaner, anyone? Where's the dignity or reward in that?
Yes please! I'd do that any day, over being involved in some nasty, seedy aspect of the porn "industry". At least I could walk down the high street with my head held high.
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: quote: Originally posted by Cod: Page 3 is porn, but it doesn't involve sexual relations.
Exactly, so somewhere or other a line needs to be drawn between what is acceptable and what is not. But I feel at present the bar has been set far too low and needs to be raised a bit.
Back to the good ol' days of the top shelf, eh??
Sure, yes - it would be an improvement wouldn't it? But I don't quite get what you mean - that sort of magazine still is on the top shelf, the problem is more extreme forms of porn which get transmitted through other types of media.
Well there's something to be said for what you advocate there, yes ... although nigh on impossible in practice to put the genie back in the bottle, of course ...
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: ...Toilet cleaner, anyone? Where's the dignity or reward in that?
Yes please! I'd do that any day, over being involved in some nasty, seedy aspect of the porn "industry". At least I could walk down the high street with my head held high.
Not so with me. I might not shout from the rooftops about being in such an industry, I grant you, but at least I'd be getting some good times out of it ... And I'd be way too 'proud' (take that positively or negatively) for anyone I know to see me stuck in a whole range of crummy jobs for any length of time.
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: Well there's something to be said for what you advocate there, yes ... although nigh on impossible in practice to put the genie back in the bottle, of course ...
I'm not so sure about that. The UK and USA are going in with all guns blazing to crack down on copyright violations. Why can't they do the same with porn?
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
I wonder if some of our unease with porn is related to the subconscious dishonesty involved?
I am sexually aroused as I imagine that the porn actor might have sex with me. However, this possibility is (usually) impossible - and I also know this to be the case. Therefore, the lust for the unattainable fantasy is a cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level.
-------------------- The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: I'm not so sure about that. The UK and USA are going in with all guns blazing to crack down on copyright violations. Why can't they do the same with porn?
Well, copyright violation is a crime. Making porn isn't, unless there's another crime committed in making it. Neither is watching it. How do you propose to criminalize making pornography? How do you propose to get around niggling details like freedom of the press and freedom of speech and a right to privacy?
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
What people who are demanding academic literature on current internet porn use are not quite getting is the state of flux in the industry.
The most recent change in how porn is viewed on the internet only happened in the last 3 years - the death of porn on demand with the rise and centralization of free aggregate sites. In essence, porn is dealing with what music is dealing with - how to make money when everything is free. Or, maybe more accurately a parallel, how to make money as video providers in the world of Youtube.
Expecting an academic understanding of the affect of this shift in viewing arrangements is like expecting people to be able to do an academic study on the affect of Pinterest on shopping patterns.
Its not going to happen - academics don't move that fast.
In the meantime, and yes this is anecdotal, there are people in counseling positions in high schools and universities indicating changes in how young men are dealing with women - not more rape just different expectations.
Porn always moves as fast as technology - and certainly faster then academia.
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Apologies for the double post:
I also wonder if people are discounting anecdotal evidence based on the subject at hand rather then a rigorous application of the need for academic work to prove a viewpoint.
Social workers and community workers use anecdotal evidence all the time to garner support for issues when there isn't the money or opportunity to study.
e.g. The well known phrase in my town - the farther you live away from the rich neighbourhoods, the more likely you are to have your LD diagnosed in jail. Used many many times by me and others to beat the drums for more LD support in poor neighbourhoods. Any real evidence? Nope, as nobody has the money to prove it.
Should we, for lack of academic evidence, just discount that unproven need?
How come anecdotal evidence is good when discussing the need to deal with poverty issues but bad when its discussing sexuality?
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
You're implying that there hasn't been extensive systematic study of porn and its effects. But the fact is there have been hundreds of studies over the past several decades, which have pretty consistently failed to find any general negative effects. This doesn't mean that no one has ever been harmed by exposure to porn (and I'm not talking about harm within the industry itself). It just means that harmful effects are so rare or so small that they aren't measurable in a large random sample. The anecdotal evidence may be useful in helping to identify the particular subset of people who are vulnerable to some harmful effect, and possibly to design studies to better understand them, but it doesn't alter the fact that they are the exception rather than the norm.
-------------------- When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. - C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
No, I'm implying nothing of the sort. Please do not put words in my mouth. Just because somebody disagrees with you on the currant affects, please do not assume they are a Luddite.
With technology, the affects of porn changes. And there has been a big change lately.
And THAT very recent and unstudiable change is what is driving the anecdotally changing behaviour among some men.
Just because porn usage has been relatively benign does not mean changes to how it is brought to people can not affect the "benignness".
If studies come out in a few years indicating the availability of porn for free on computers, laptops and phones, accessible anywhere including in public spaces like libraries, coffee houses,walking down the street and on public transit is not affecting male behaviour ...........great.
Until then, this former community worker will stick with trying to understand affects using anecdotal evidence.
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Soror Magna: Well, copyright violation is a crime. Making porn isn't, unless there's another crime committed in making it. Neither is watching it. How do you propose to criminalize making pornography? How do you propose to get around niggling details like freedom of the press and freedom of speech and a right to privacy?
That's not true in the UK - copyright violation is a civil offence, not a criminal one. Additionally until very recently a lot of pornography was illegal in the UK, either to make or to distribute, and "extreme" pornography still is. I seem to recall that there have been prosecutions for some forms of pornography in the US as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore (reading after eating not advised)
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet: quote: Originally posted by Soror Magna: Well, copyright violation is a crime. Making porn isn't, unless there's another crime committed in making it. Neither is watching it. How do you propose to criminalize making pornography? How do you propose to get around niggling details like freedom of the press and freedom of speech and a right to privacy?
That's not true in the UK - copyright violation is a civil offence, not a criminal one. Additionally until very recently a lot of pornography was illegal in the UK, either to make or to distribute, and "extreme" pornography still is. I seem to recall that there have been prosecutions for some forms of pornography in the US as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore (reading after eating not advised)
Well, even a stubborn old libertarian like me wouldn't argue that HE was a good thing! Hey - gives us a 'base-level' to work from ...
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet: quote: Originally posted by Soror Magna: Well, copyright violation is a crime. Making porn isn't, unless there's another crime committed in making it. Neither is watching it. How do you propose to criminalize making pornography? How do you propose to get around niggling details like freedom of the press and freedom of speech and a right to privacy?
That's not true in the UK - copyright violation is a civil offence, not a criminal one. Additionally until very recently a lot of pornography was illegal in the UK, either to make or to distribute, and "extreme" pornography still is. I seem to recall that there have been prosecutions for some forms of pornography in the US as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore (reading after eating not advised)
FWIW intentional (as opposed to inadvertant) copyright infringement is a crime in most places and it would be very surprising if the UK was an exception.
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore (reading after eating not advised)
Tsk tsk. P0rn always heads to the lowest common denominator of creativity, doesn't it. The guy produces hardcore, so he names himself(drumroll...) Hardcore.
In mainstream film, a director wouldn't get away with calling himself Bob Romantic Comedy, for example. [ 25. August 2012, 22:46: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Cod: FWIW intentional (as opposed to inadvertant) copyright infringement is a crime in most places and it would be very surprising if the UK was an exception.
I've just done a little more reading. In general what I've said is true, but there is a criminal offence involved if there is deliberate large scale commercial exploitation using that breach of copyright. Basically file sharing is a civil matter, knowingly flogging knock-off DVDs is a criminal matter. In the context of the discussion at hand it is the former that is significant. [ 26. August 2012, 05:41: Message edited by: Arethosemyfeet ]
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Stetson: quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore (reading after eating not advised)
Tsk tsk. P0rn always heads to the lowest common denominator of creativity, doesn't it. The guy produces hardcore, so he names himself(drumroll...) Hardcore.
In mainstream film, a director wouldn't get away with calling himself Bob Romantic Comedy, for example.
I imagine the reason is that wankers with money to spend are likely to google "Hardcore" and find his name. Directors of romantic comedy don't rely on that kind of, erm, traffic.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Qoheleth.: I wonder if some of our unease with porn is related to the subconscious dishonesty involved?
I am sexually aroused as I imagine that the porn actor might have sex with me. However, this possibility is (usually) impossible - and I also know this to be the case. Therefore, the lust for the unattainable fantasy is a cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level.
No-one should be surprised if certain types of porn arouse them - that's the whole intention of it - but just because it makes you feel good, and maybe you've even indulged from time-to-time, doesn't make it right or healthy.
You have to remove yourself from the argument to form an objective opinion about what it is doing to people.
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut: @og. What is an LD?
I think he means Learning Difficulties.
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts:
You have to remove yourself from the argument to form an objective opinion about what it is doing to people.
Dream on! How many non-smokers have you met who are opposed to anti-smoking laws; how many smokers have you met who are in favour of anti-smoking laws??
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer: With technology, the affects of porn changes. And there has been a big change lately.
And THAT very recent and unstudiable change is what is driving the anecdotally changing behaviour among some men.
The problem for your argument is that the "recent changes" as devastating as they are for the economics of the traditional porn industry, aren't a fundamental change they're a step change. Porn has been widely and easily available for a long time. Aggregation sites widen that but it's not the paradigm shift that say the internet itself was (or probably more significantly the introduction of the home video recorder). We're not living in a brave new world the like of which has never been seen before, we're seeing the continuation of the same trend that's been going on for years. So the earlier research still applies IMHO.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: quote: Originally posted by Twilight: quote: Matthew 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
I suppose it could be about hypocrisy if someone is bragging about obeying the commandment against adultery while lusting in his heart. I think the main message of the whole chapter is that we should try to take all of the commandments a step further than just the mimimum requirement. Whatever other points Jesus was trying to make, it seems clear to me that he is comparing lust with adultery and doesn't think either one is a good thing. YMMV
Well of course, this can only be conjecture, on both our parts, since Jesus had a nasty habit of either responding to something in an entirely unexpected way, or merely throwing another, rather cryptic, question back (and that's without even touching issues of mis-reporting, mis-translation etc). So I can only say that what you take to be the main message ('going a step further') is precisely what I thought Jesus was criticising the Pharisees and Saducees for ... and why? - because it lead to hypocrisy. Witness the automatic tut-tutting among many people in settled relationships, whenever they are referring to someone who has cheated on their partners - as if that shows the tut-tutters to be of stronger moral fibre. Still, as I say, that's just my take.
I've been pondering this for two days now!
So. Jesus was saying:
(1)"You people who criticize adulterers are just as bad as they are if you've ever lusted?" Another variation on the splinter in the eye thing.
(2) "You've gone too far if you're worried about lusting." Being too scrupulous.
(3) "Adultery is only as bad as lusting which isn't very."
(4) "Thou shalt not commit adultery or lust after women -- As if!" The Jesus is just kidding view.
I know I sound facetious but I'm really confused about this now. Sorry if this should be in Kerygmania.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
No, you're over-thinking this!
Adultery bad.
Adultery plus hypocrisy worse.
Adultery caused by excessive lust plus the (apparent) opportunity to get away with it. Not an infrequent occurence ...
This lust something that most people feel on a regular basis. Good chance that they would have acted on it if they could have got away with it. 'Smoke and mirrors' thrown over that by voicing disappoval of others.
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts:
You have to remove yourself from the argument to form an objective opinion about what it is doing to people.
Dream on! How many non-smokers have you met who are opposed to anti-smoking laws; how many smokers have you met who are in favour of anti-smoking laws??
You can count me as one smoker who has no problem whatsoever with indoor areas being legally designated as smoke-free zones. I see no reason why other people should have to endure my habit, and prefer to smoke outdoors anyway.
I do think it's getting a bit silly when they start banning smoking in public spaces like parks, etc, since the health effects of that smoke must be minute compared to everything else that's in the air. I think those kind of regulations are more about social-engineering, ie. encouraging people to quit, rather than protecting health.
-------------------- I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: This lust something that most people feel on a regular basis. Good chance that they would have acted on it if they could have got away with it.
If you're saying what you look to be saying, it's crap. It's quite possible -- and I imagine millions of people do it every day -- to see someone good looking and think, "va va voom" and let the mind drift, but not be at all interested in actually transferring that into action, even if they could get away with it.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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glockenspiel
Shipmate
# 13645
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mousethief: quote: Originally posted by glockenspiel: This lust something that most people feel on a regular basis. Good chance that they would have acted on it if they could have got away with it.
If you're saying what you look to be saying, it's crap. It's quite possible -- and I imagine millions of people do it every day -- to see someone good looking and think, "va va voom" and let the mind drift, but not be at all interested in actually transferring that into action, even if they could get away with it.
Well, looks like I'll have to take your word for that, then! Or maybe you move in more refined circles than me (which seems entirely possible). But I know it to be true of a number of tut-tutter acquaintances - and that's what created the connection in my mind in the first place.
Posts: 1258 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Apr 2008
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