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Source: (consider it) Thread: AS: Job Search Support Thread
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Carys - you need to take control of this stuff rather than leaving it in their hands. Next time, after they say "the end of next week", you could ask, "And if I haven't heard from you by that time, may I call you?"

They may even be grateful that you're taking some charge of it, because they can get on with their lives and have one less thing on their minds.

Spoke to the Company I Hope To Work For (CIHTWF) yesterday. The CTO explained, with considerable embarrassment, that although he'd really love to talk seriously about hiring me, the venture capitalists who are buying them out, have told them that it will be at least another three weeks.

We agreed to another phone call in three weeks, and to notify each other if anything changes in that time.

Meanwhile, all of a sudden agents are coming out of the walls, threatening to send me for interviews for all kinds of really horrid corporate stuff that I don't want to do. [Ultra confused]

So I've got someone I want to work for, who wants to hire me but can't right now; and some other, boring people, who may or may not want to hire me but for whom I don't really want to work (AFAIK).

So, I'd be grateful for prayers that I will get the exact, right job at the exact, right time!

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:
Carys - you need to take control of this stuff rather than leaving it in their hands. Next time, after they say "the end of next week", you could ask, "And if I haven't heard from you by that time, may I call you?"

Maybe. It's all very complicated. I applied before the deadline (for two jobs) and they interviewed me for one of the two before the deadline. The deadline was Thursday so hopefully I'll hear something on Monday. If not, I might send a prodding email again. It's all very complicated.

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Well, I had the job interview on Thursday. Small field, I think. I would be the most experienced one in it (hard not to be at my age), but my experience is not in the education sector, which may be a factor.

I don't think I did badly: I don't think I did brilliantly.

Usually, I am quite good at intuiting how things have gone, but I have no sense of outcome at all.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Actually, I think I have identified what was troubling me about the interview. They didn't really ask enough questions, or seem sufficiently interested in the answers. I was there to make up numbers (and possibly allow them to tick the anti-ageism box).

Oh, and they haven't contacted me in - what - 5 days.

Ah weel, my present job looks as if it may lurch on beyond the present end of contract, so perhaps it is all for the best.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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Well, things are not looking great in this part of the world at the moment. I could pick up a job with an investment bank/private equity company tomorrow. However, I really don't want to do that. I've told the agencies what I want but they keep on ringing me about unsuitable stuff. My CV's been put forward for a few roles but so far it's been a "thanks but no thanks" every time. I desperately need some temp work but that doesn't seem to be moving fast either. It's all a bit stressful really.

How's everyone else getting on?

Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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EnglishRose, how many temping agencies have you signed up with? Are you phoning each one of them, every day?

Tomorrow I have a surprise interview with a massive global accounting megacorp. I feel queasy about it for the following reasons:

- They are not a software company.
- The technology mentioned in the job spec is Excel and Access. Which is to say it's very possibly not a software engineering role, regardless of how they may have chosen to sell it to me and what empty promises they make in the interview. Which may mean that I'm flushing my MSc down the loo if I take it.
- I know I said I'd commute to London, but only if I have to. Four hours travelling per day, plus over 10% of my putative gross annual salary on season tickets and parking... nein danke.[1]
- I've heard unsubstantiated rumours of extremely long hours and high pressure. This is not the goal I have been working towards, as I forced myself through extremely long hours and high pressure.
- They want people who aspire to be managers and team leaders. Yuk.
- It's a megacorp. I presume that not all megacorps are as extremely incompetent and ineffectual as the one I just left... but I can still look forward to having my soul annihilated.

Reasons why I maybe should consider it:

- If it's "suitable" and I turn it down, goodbye Jobseekers Allowance.
- Is the temp market slow at the moment? [Ultra confused]
- The company I think I want to work for, may prove to be a will-o-the-wisp despite all their enthusiasm.

I could do with some wisdom. And some cash. And a brilliant career. Please. [Help]


[1] Though of course I'm grateful that it's not the same percentage as at the start of my career, when it cost me 45% of my net income... as long as I had the discipline to walk home after midnight each night. Which, being lazy, I usually didn't [Frown]

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:
I could do with some wisdom. And some cash. And a brilliant career. Please. [Help]

I know that feeling. I didn't get the subtitling job and they don't even want to interview me for the translation post. No feedback yet. I'm pretty down about it.

Carys

--------------------
O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Originally posted by Carys:

quote:
I know that feeling. I didn't get the subtitling job and they don't even want to interview me for the translation post. No feedback yet. I'm pretty down about it.
Bum. [Frown]

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:
EnglishRose, how many temping agencies have you signed up with? Are you phoning each one of them, every day?

I'm signed up with three temp agencies. Trouble is, every time I phone them they either try to push another unsuitable perm role at me or try to persuade me to temp in the City. How many times do I have to say that I don't want to work in the City??? Surely there must be some jobs in London that don't involve working in the City?

Today's mission is to sign up with a couple of new agencies. Hopefully I'll find somewhere that's actually willing to listen to me and has suitable work on the books.

Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
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# 3534

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IME you really need to be signed up with at least ten agencies. Three isn't nearly enough.

I can understand why you wouldn't want permanent work in the City, but what is your objection to temp work?

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you're right about the number of temp agencies. When I signed up for temp work they all told me that I should sign up with a max of 3-4. That seems like a load of nonsense now!

As for temping in the City, I'm trying to avoid that because I want to use my time as a temp to build up experience in my sectors of interest. I've had quite a few rejections for permanent jobs because I've worked in the "wrong" sectors, even though the employer thought my CV was fantastic. If I can get a temp job/jobs in the "right" sector then I increase my chances of getting a decent permanent job. Or at least that's the theory. I may just have to bite the bullet and temp in the City if I really can't find anything else.

Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Yeah, I see what you mean... but if the point of temping is short-term commitment, what's a week here and there? It's better than sitting on your butt, right? (Okay, that last one was just a rhetorical question, I wouldn't ponder it too deeply.)

I am really surprised that they're being such fusspots about what sectors you've worked in. IME you do one temp job, you've done 'em all. My guess is that if you don't bring it up, some of the new agencies you sign with won't bring it up either.

I'm also guessing that there must be specialist agencies in the sector you want. There's a specialist agency for everything.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Agent Smith
Shipmate
# 3299

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Agent Smith checking in [Hot and Hormonal]

having decided that my job sucks (more than dysons! [Disappointed] ), and starting the "looking around" for a new job, my post has recently been confirmed as coming to an end late July.

Pre empting the being out of work (not good and want a permanent job!), and as a result I have an interview next Wednesday, for a PA role, again for a company I believe in etc. This would be a good career move etc, and would then give me some stability, which has been somewhat lacking recently. I really don't want to go back to temping, and go through this cycle again as I am finding that temping/contract work is having a negative effect on my confidence. [Paranoid]

Will post on prayer thread...

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"I'm so English, I am probably descended from a Cricket Bat and a cup of tea".

James May - 20th Century

http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentsmith1974/

Posts: 536 | From: Inside M25 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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EnglishRose, just a thought;
The sectors you are interested in working in- they will be hiring their staff from a specific agency. Max two.
If you can, try to find out which agency is preferred by your sector.

(does that make sense, or is the 4.30 am start today showing?)

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Interview with hideous global megacorp was as pleasant as can be expected.

It would have been the same kind of low-tech, high-multitasking crap I had to put up with in my previous job, with the difference that they often work extremely long hours or overnight.

Also, I would have had to spend the week in Germany and only be allowed back for the weekends, for six months at a time.

This gave me reasonable grounds for saying thanks, but no thanks. WHEW

All it's done is emphasize how much I think I want to work for The Company I Think I Want To Work For.

Please please, most fervent prayers that when I phone them in two weeks, they will have got their lives sufficiently sorted out to actually hire me! [Help] (I put this on the prayer request thread too, to double the strength.)

( [Hot and Hormonal] Um, I'm actually craving kittens an awful lot lately, but I didn't want to weaken the impact of my message on the prayer request thread... [Hot and Hormonal] )

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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Well, I'm out of the ranks of the unemployed again for a while. Back to the job I was doing until March (now there's an Assembly again).

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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I'm starting to feel anxious [Ultra confused]

Okay, don't panic, don't panic. They did say they would like to open serious negotiations but can't because the VCs are using delaying tactics.

The VCs wouldn't be using delaying tactics if they didn't want to go through with the deal.

I would be happy working with those folks, I'm sure of it. Unless the situation is radically different from the way it looks, I'd be able to use my talents and make a difference for the first time in my wretched, spider-hoovering[1] life.

And this pause gives me a chance to polish up some rusty skills so that I don't look like an eejit when it comes to a tech interview.

But I'm scared.

I'm also scared of selling myself short because I'm scared.

[Help]

[1]Using, as a metonym for my career, the time when I was working as a PA and my boss made me get the casing off the fluorescent ceiling lights, hoover the dead spiders out of them, and wash down the casing. Then wash it again because I'd missed a bit. Then wash it again because it was unbelievable how I couldn't even get a simple thing like that right... etc. [Disappointed]

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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You know, I think we all need a drink [Big Grin] As Telepath said, this job hunting business is horribly scary. Prayers for all who are job hunting at the moment. [Votive]
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557

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Apologies in advance, as this might be a bit long.

I'm currently in a temporary teaching contract. I got that because the person appointed at Christmas walked out just before Easter. (I had also applied then & was the 2nd choice candidate). The Head (a bit sheepishly) asked me if I would consider taking the class for the rest of the year. At the time I wasn't too bothered about not getting the job, because I didn't want to work full-time, but after a few weeks, realised that I did enjoy the challenge (although it was & is very tiring). I did mention this to the Head during a conversation early on this term.
The school advertised for a KS2 teacher, because the Y5 teacher has been seconded from another school & won't be staying on. Before the closing date, the head mentioned that they didn't know what would be happening with my class (Y3), yet as it would depend on what the Y1 teacher decided. At the time I said I was not interested in the Y5 job, but again said I was enjoying teaching full-time.
Today he informed me that they would be appointing 2 KS2 teachers, Y3 & Y5. When I asked if it was worth me applying, he said they had already shortlisted.

I feel kicked in the teeth! [Mad] What do you think I should do?

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Less is more ...

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EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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It sucks but I suspect there's nothing you can do. However, I presume that you belong to a Trade Union (if only for the liability insurance)? If so, give them a call and ask them for their advice. They'll know whether the Head is legally obliged to consider you for the post and should be able to give you the relevant rules/regs to quote if you decide to speak to the Head.

Good luck.

Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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I have a temp job starting tomorrow [Yipee] The money's not great and I have absolutely no idea what I'll be doing but at least there'll be enough money in the bank to pay the rent at the end of the month. It's a HUGE relief. Now to find a decent permanent job.....
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Agent Smith
Shipmate
# 3299

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Agent Smith checking in again.

I think my interview went well, it would be a start up position as the team is newly created. I would also be organising a conference which would require me to be on site ( [Yipee] ) managing the event. All of this sounds really interesting and exciting as I would have the opportunity to move within the company possibly to a management type role.

I really want this job now, and will be dissapointed if I am not the person. The boss was lovely, and her sidekick (I would be her sidekick but this was an acting sidekick - for interview purposes only!).

I had a morning off work, which was good, saw the London skyline from the office window, and thought "I could see myself working here!". Trying to send good vibes about me to the company.!

The down side is that they wont be making a decision until next Friday, so I will apply for other roles, between now and then.

--------------------
"I'm so English, I am probably descended from a Cricket Bat and a cup of tea".

James May - 20th Century

http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentsmith1974/

Posts: 536 | From: Inside M25 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Well, today I was approached by a large company with a reputation for being a great place to work for... they approached me, as a direct hire and not an agency... Played telephone tag but will try again tomorrow.

I should have a song in my heart, right?

From what I could glean, they have a culture of very long hours. One account said that you automatically get a bad performance review if you work only 40 hours a week. You wouldn't necessarily pay attention to that... except for archived news stories about a leaked email from the King of the company, chewing out the managers for not forcing employees to work evenings and weekends.

I suspect that, if there really is a long-hours culture there, it won't necessarily be something they would disclose at interview.

Meanwhile, the thought of working at that company I'm going to talk to on the 18th, makes me HAPPY. And I KNOW they want to open serious negotiations, because they SAID SO, but the VCs are messing with 'em. I also didn't get any vibes from them, at any time, that suggested phoniness or deception, which is extremely rare in any aspect of life, let alone recruitment.

If they are as they appear to be, I could be happy there, make a real difference, use my skills, have as nice a time as can reasonably be expected at w*rk.

On the other hand, they could just be a bunch of muppets who will never be able to make a credible offer.

Or they could be great people, but the VCs who are buying them could be the bastard children of Pointyhaired Bosses Inc and Satanic Headgamers R Us.

There's just no way to really know.

I'm at a crossroads in my career, folks. For as long as I can remember, I've worked full time, and studied far into the night, to improve my skills and advance my career. Most of those years I've put huge amounts of money into it, as well; often a third of my income, or more.

And I have advanced, in some ways, since my spider-vacuuming days.

In other ways, not. For example, my last salary was the same, in real terms, as it was at the beginning of my career... nearly 15 years ago. And I was still at the bottom of the heap - which I don't mind in and of itself, but I get really tired of having my skills and experience dissed and dismissed. I want to work for people who actually WANT my help.

Not only can I not afford to do an entry-level job for entry-level money any more... I can't bear it, either. Just can't bear it.

I'm tired of feeling like a failure, and that my life has no purpose, and that all my talents and hard work exist only to be wasted, or else exploited and the rewards withheld, and that I will NEVER be allowed to have what others have.

It all has to change. Now.

I cannot take yet another poorly-paid and low-prestige job to gain experience so that, next year, I will finally be perfect enough. I know now that next year, I would just have to do it all again.

I cannot study all hours to acquire yet another skill so that, at the end of it, I will finally be perfect enough. I know that, once I had put the work in, I would just have to do it all again.

And the hunt, itself, has gone on long enough. I pray that, one way or the other, I will have reason to celebrate big time on the 18th.

[Help] [Help] [Help] [Help]

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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Hang in there, Telepath. I would say, listen to your heart....a warning here that I gone off the beaten track several times in my life to the consternation/almost disapproval of more "sensible" others. [Smile]
Posts: 4336 | From: Eastern US | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Emma Louise

Storm in a teapot
# 3571

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Im struggling so much with my job and being ill at the moment, that as much as I like my employers, and have only really worked there a year I really want to leave.

So er - not actually searching but stepping into that terrifying hole of uncertainty and worry about money and hope for new job.

How much of your sick record gets taken inot account with a new employer - do they see it or just Occupational health?

Also - would i lose out a lot re maternity pay by leaving (not that im pregnant, but it would be nice to be at some point if we can!)

Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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So the 'perfect job' apparently came down to two - me and another and she got it. The letter informing me was very nice and encouraging but I feel crushed. I'm lucky in many ways since I have a job, I have a place to live, everyone belonged to me is safe and I trust that things go as they're meant to. But like Telepath, I'm at a bit of a cross-roads having spent years and vast amounts of money to train, so this is just a bit hard today.
[Votive] Better luck to all the others searching - chins up.

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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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Telepath & Neandergirl, I wish I could offer you some sage words of advice. What you're going through right now *is* incredibly tough. There's no easy answers: sometimes things aren't fair and don't make sense, no matter which way you look at them. Take time to look after yourselves, surround yourselves with things you enjoy and people whose company you find positive. Somehow you'll find a way through this uncertainty. Prayers for you both, for Emma & Agent Smith, and for all those who are coping with uncertainty at work. [Votive]
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880

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I am between jobs now too...I had a temp job but it ended last Friday. That kind of sucks because I liked the job and the work environment, but my manager tried to find a place for me and was unable to after the girl I was filling in for came back. Oh well. At least I got some references out of it.

How does everyone feel about temp agencies? Also, in England does the department of Labor help disabled people find jobs? I dont know if anyone here is disabled, but I am considered disabled (bipolar), and here in Georgia, US, the department of labor's vocational rehab services do that.

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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

Posts: 6028 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Urbanita
Shipmate
# 10033

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Sorry to hear that, Beautiful Dreamer. Here's hoping you get another decent assignment soon.

In the UK, there is something called the New Deal for Disabled People which refers disabled people who are looking for work to a programme, sometimes run for the state by non-profits. The staff on the programme are meant to help you assess your skills and find training if needed, help you identify and if necessary apply for jobs etc. I think the effectiveness varies depending on who is running the programme.

[ 11. May 2007, 09:10: Message edited by: Urbanita ]

Posts: 119 | From: Durham, UK | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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So, I had a phone interview this morning.

It all was sounding just fab, but the recruiter mentioned that it was "definitely not a job for those who want to come in at 9 and finish at 5". Well, see above about aggressive email from the King, threatening to fire managers whose employees were not in during nights and weekends. A long hours culture is bad, a long hours culture reinforced with threats and treated as an end in itself is insufferable.

So, when appropriate, I picked up on that. I explained that, of course, there are times when it's all hands on deck and I understood that, but if there's a culture of long hours, I wouldn't be able to do my best work.

She said, oh, um, well, you know it's really down to the hiring managers and she'd check with them, but how about we schedule an interview next week. So I pencilled in Thursday.

Then she asked me to put my details in by applying on the company website. I was in the middle of faffing with that, when she emailed again.

She'd spoken to the hiring manager, and he'd said that nobody who wants to work just basic hours should consider a career there, so they were not going to take my application further.

WHEW

I mean, in an emergency, you can count on me to be the last one standing. And maybe I'd make an exception for an iBank. But, you know. [Roll Eyes]

So, I went downtown and on my way back I got a call from an agent. This agent had made me do a test for a client earlier in the week. Apparently there were 66 candidates and I got down to the last 6... but they're only interviewing 5 people. He had argued passionately for me to be the fifth... but I'm in the reserve position. If none of the other 5 make it through, then they'll interview me.

I got him to send details of the company. How glad I am that I did! The King of the selfsame branch of this company that I would be interviewing for, was found individually, personally liable in an extremely high-profile bullying lawsuit. Ghastly accounts of his atrocious behaviour made the BBC news.

Maybe I wouldn't be working for the guy directly, or have any contact with him at all. But the fact that he behaved as outrageously as he did, and exposed the company to such public embarrassment, not to say expense (though I should think it's pocket change to them), and they rewarded him by putting him in charge of this other company, doesn't exactly say much for their values. It's just as well I got sixth place instead of fifth! [Eek!]

Or am I overreacting? Maybe I would never have any contact with this guy.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Zoey

Broken idealist
# 11152

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I've been thinking of tiptoeing onto this thread, on and off, for about a month now. The reason I'm finally here today is because I now have a specific question, rather than just lots of random waffle and doubts.

So - insert random waffle and doubts here (I finished Uni a couple of years ago, did a naff temp job for a bit, got signed off with depression, now haven't worked for nearly a year, not entirely convinced I'm ready to work again but am thinking about finding something part-time and easing self back into work very, very slowly and gently, have no idea whatsoever where my life is going or where I'll be in 6 months time or a year's time or 5 years' time, yadda yadda yadda ad infinitum).


Specific issue:

A while ago I worked in a centre for physically-disabled adults. A different centre for physically-disabled adults is currently advertising for staff. The ad talks about how they provide a good quality service aimed at helping their service-users lead lives which are as full and independent as possible. All good. Then it says:

quote:
Making this achievable requires a team of people like you, with friendly outgoing personalities who can lift and enthuse those around them whilst fulfilling a challenging, demanding and sometimes physical role.
Now, I can understand why they don't want bad-tempered, miserable, unpleasant grumps working for them. The other place where I worked, there was one member of staff who was permanently grumpy and who moaned about anything and everything. I remember thinking that if I were one of the residents I really wouldn't like the fact that I had to share my home with this miserable old moaner. On the other hand, is it really a necessity that applicants for the job I'm now looking at must have outgoing personalities and the ability to enthuse other people (it's not a supervisory or team-leader job, just a bog-standard care-assistant position)? The ad *almost* makes it sound like low morale is the norm at this place and employees would be expected to cheer everybody up by cracking jokes and being permanently jolly. Now, if I got this job, I would try to always be as sympathetic and as helpful and as encouraging as possible towards both service-users and colleagues. But I'm not exactly a 24/7 little-miss-sunshine. I have depression. I try not to be a misery-guts, but at the current time in my life 'outgoing', 'bubbly', 'chirpy' etc are words which can only very infrequently, if ever, be accurately applied to me. My own view is that the advert is not particularly well-written. I've reason to believe that at the last place I worked, both service-users and senior staff were happy with my work. While I can see why moaning misery-guts aren't wanted, I don't think it's necessary to be an outgoing, bubbly bundle of fun in order to work well with disabled adults. Unless I have missed something significant about this organisation or this job, I think the advert asks for a very specific type of character, when actually other types of character would also be able to do the job just as well, to the satisfaction of both service users and senior staff.

If I'd applied for the job and been given an interview, my question would be how to phrase all of this most tactfully if it were to come up in the interview. At this stage, I want to ask more preliminary advice - is it sensible and/or ethical for me to apply for this job? I don't think I'm the type of person described in the job advert, but, unless I've missed something significant (which hopefully, if my application got anywhere, I'd pick up on at some point during the application process), I think I'm a different type of person who could do the job equally well. Is it wrong of me to apply in those circumstances? Is it foolish of me to apply in those circumstances?


One other brief question - if, two or three years ago, I asked somebody whether they'd be a referee, and they seemed to give general acquiesence (rather than just saying they'd provide me with a reference for one particular job application), do I need to contact them again before giving them as a referee, or can I just put them down without contacting them?
(I hate contacting potential referees. But, otoh, I know that my b***tard of a father made it a principle of his that if he got asked for a reference without the person having contacted him first, the reference he provided would start with, 'I would have given Bob a good reference, if it weren't for the fact that he didn't ask me whether I would mind being named as a referee ...')

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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.

Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707

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well mountainsnowtiger, it seems to me the only way it could be unethical for you to apply is if you find that your depression generally results in you making other people feel miserable as well.

But it doesn't sound like that's the case. Your own assessment of your interactions doesn't suggest that, nor does the way you come across here on the Ship of Fools. I'm no expert on depression but the people I know who are being treated for depression usually make a positive impact on other people even when they are feeling a quite a low ebb themselves.

So if you feel like you can do the job, you're quite justified in applying.

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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai

Posts: 2210 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Emma Louise

Storm in a teapot
# 3571

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I think its polite to let people know you want to use them as a referee - especially as you want them to write nice things!!

I think a small note or postcard just saying you appreciated being able to use them as areferee in the past, you are now going for xyz and would be very grateful to use them as a referee again.

Basically just give them a chance to say "no" as youd rather they said no to you than to your potential employer..!

Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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I think you should make contact with your referees again, if you haven't in a while. That's always a good idea.

I read somewhere that you couldn't place a job ad for a "good team player" if the job didn't really require a lot of teamwork - for example - because rather than stipulating real job requirements, the ad would just be discriminating against people with ASDs. Now I have no way of knowing whether that's true or not, or whether it's enforceable if it is true.

But it does make it important to find out whether or not you really need to be the frenzied Pollyanna character they claim to be looking for in the ad, or whether it's good enough to be quietly supportive and refrain from moaning.

Probably the best way to find that out is to apply, and if they invite you for interview, they'll be able to see for themselves what you're like.

I think that raising explicit questions before the interview is more likely to draw negative attention to yourself than to get you real answers.

You raise a worthwhile question about their motives in seeking out jolly-hockey-sticks types. But maybe they're not covering anything up and are just the sort of people who talk like that all the time. I wouldn't let it put you off applying and seeing what they're like, but I do suggest that you trust your intuition. If you get any vibes that make you think you would not like to work at this place, don't ignore them.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Agent Smith
Shipmate
# 3299

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quote:
Originally posted by Agent Smith:
Agent Smith checking in again.

I think my interview went well, it would be a start up position as the team is newly created. I would also be organising a conference which would require me to be on site ( [Yipee] ) managing the event. All of this sounds really interesting and exciting as I would have the opportunity to move within the company possibly to a management type role.

I really want this job now, and will be dissapointed if I am not the person. The boss was lovely, and her sidekick (I would be her sidekick but this was an acting sidekick - for interview purposes only!).

I had a morning off work, which was good, saw the London skyline from the office window, and thought "I could see myself working here!". Trying to send good vibes about me to the company.!

The down side is that they wont be making a decision until next Friday, so I will apply for other roles, between now and then.

After two weeks of waiting, I found out today I didnt get the job. [Hot and Hormonal] . Not much else to add to that really. [brick wall]

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"I'm so English, I am probably descended from a Cricket Bat and a cup of tea".

James May - 20th Century

http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentsmith1974/

Posts: 536 | From: Inside M25 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Bummer, Agent Smith. [Waterworks]

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
I think its polite to let people know you want to use them as a referee - especially as you want them to write nice things!!

I think a small note or postcard just saying you appreciated being able to use them as areferee in the past, you are now going for xyz and would be very grateful to use them as a referee again.

Basically just give them a chance to say "no" as youd rather they said no to you than to your potential employer..!

People better remind there references periodically. Cause, there isn't much more offputting to a manager then to experience the following:

"Hi there, I'm calling from X.

Silence "Oh, yeah."

"Y has put you down as a reference. And I wonder if I can ask you a few questions."

"Oh, did she?"


Been there, done that.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Interview yesterday was a festival of embarrassment. At 8pm the day before yesterday, my agent told me I'd be taking a C++ test. Well, I haven't used my C++ in several years, so I know full well it's rusty. Needless to say, the skills I've been reviewing lately have included everything BUT C++. And it was after midnight that night before I finished all my other work... so no cramming.

I got almost 100% on the SQL test, so no worries there. But I got about a third of the C++ questions wrong. And they went through them with a fine-toothed comb, and they kept trying to cajole answers out of me, but everything they were saying made me think each answer was much more complicated than it was, and eventually they would stump up the completely obvious answer and I would look like an idiot for not giving that answer in the first place and AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH.

So now I look like somebody who doesn't know C++, which is not the case.

And if I don't look like that, I look like somebody who was nervous in an interview. You don't get away with being nervous in an interview.

Then they got me to design an algorithm in pseudocode WHILE THEY WATCHED, and I did okay on that, I think.

Oh, I'd really like to work there. Oh I feel so stupid.

Well, anyway. I was in the reserve position for interviews at an investment bank, but I discovered a very high-profile bullying case in which the head of the London branch was found personally guilty. Not the kind of thing you can ignore.

I didn't think this would happen, but today the agent rang me up and told me I'd been moved up to fifth place and could be interviewed.

Oh.

I explained to him that I was concerned by certain things I'd read about the work culture, specifically bullying by the head of the London branch.

He asked me to repeat myself. It wasn't because he couldn't hear me, but because what I was saying made no sense to him. "But bullying happens wherever you go," he argued. Well, it doesn't happen wherever I go. Partly because I take the trouble to spot places where it's likely to happen, and avoid them!

While we were talking, a blast of EXTREMELY loud cheering and whistling broke out in the background, ramming directly into my left ear at about a million decibels. If I am hard of hearing in that ear a few months from now, it will be a direct result of that conversation [Mad]

Anyway, the agent rather sulkily said that he'd have to look into it... That got rid of him.

Thank goodness the CITIWTWF has had its sale approved by the shareholders. So I probably will end up working there, at this rate.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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Well, it looks like my temp job is going permanent which is good news.

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Yay for Carys!

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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EnglishRose..........only just caught up with your news: Fan-tas-tic!
This buys you space and time. Congratulations!

[ 28. May 2007, 12:40: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jonm
Shipmate
# 1246

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I've applied for s job which is at an institute which is a joint venture betwen a charity and a university, and is 2 hours away from where we are moving to in July, so I'd like to discuss the possibility of working from home ideally 2 days a week, but I don't want to seem to pushy on this front. Do people think I should raise this:

a) before an interview (if I get offered one)
b) at interview (ditto)
c) if I'm offered a job?

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"My God, My God, why hast thou accepted me?"---Caedmon's Call

Posts: 264 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jonm
Shipmate
# 1246

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonm:
s job

a job [Hot and Hormonal]

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"My God, My God, why hast thou accepted me?"---Caedmon's Call

Posts: 264 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smudgie

Ship's Barnacle
# 2716

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Jon [Smile] How lovely to see you!
I think the question of when to raise the issue of working from home depends on how important it is to whether or not you take the job if offered to you. If it's just something that's an ideal but can be managed without, I'd raise it after any offer, but if it's essential to you, I'd raise it during the interview. I wouldn't raise it beforehand - let them see what a good move it would be to employ you first! [Big Grin]

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Miss you, Erin.

Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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Yes, I agree with Smudgie (not that I am Ms. "Knows it All" on job interviews.) You don't want to come across as if you are giving ultimatims before you even interview...but assuming it goes well, I think you do need to speak up before a deal is struck.

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

Posts: 4336 | From: Eastern US | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811

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Is there someone that you can call for more details about the post. If there is, make an anonymous call and ask about various aspects of the job, and ask whether flexible locations would be a problem.
Posts: 2614 | From: Midlands | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Zoey

Broken idealist
# 11152

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I am crap at job-searching (which makes me even more fortunate that my situation isn't at all pressured and I can survive a while longer without a job - I know, I'm a lucky sod).

If you're not sure about a job (say 50-50), but the application deadline is imminent, then you apply anyway, don't you?, on the basis that you might not get interviewed, plus you can withdraw your application any time before or after interview if you want to?

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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.

Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Smudgie

Ship's Barnacle
# 2716

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Absolutely.

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Miss you, Erin.

Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Always apply if you are interested.

But, use an appropriate amount of time for the chance that the application is going to be seen.

Don't spend 12 hours on a resume and cover letter for something where the organization is going to be getting a lot of resumes. (The average total of resumes sent for each job posting on major websites in North America is 2000. Not sure of the UK numbers.)

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Yeah, but a lot of jobs posted on web boards don't get a lot of applications at all. Reed.co.uk actually shows you the number of applications that have been made! Which is not to say that the job hasn't been advertised elsewhere, but still!

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged



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