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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: AS: Job Search Support Thread
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Ok, so now I have a dilemma - it's a good dilemma, but...
I've been called back about a job I applied for in an American firm. They chose another candidate but apparently it's fallen through and now they're looking again. I don't like it as much as the one I've accepted (the interviewer mentioned working for 3 partners and asked the question "have you ever worked for difficult people?" which makes me suspiscious) so my instinct is to say no.
However - I think they probably are offering quite a bit more money than the one I've taken. So - do I interview for it anyway in the hopes of getting more money out of the people I actually want to work for?
You know, I was thinking about what the French VP said to me "You can talk to me like this because I'm French, you can't talk the way to an American".
I find I do better with Europeans than American VPs wise as I tend to say directly what I mean. Americans are really hung up on being P.C. (bear in mind I do live in California). This all said why?
Because an American firm with "difficult" American bosses (they may be American or act it, I don't know) may be a place that combines having managers who are direct in their speech to you, but may get easily offended if you give it back to them. If you have the soft skills of an Mr. Amanda B., you may be able to circumvent things ala Elizabeth Bennett style to say a Mr. Darcy. But if you are me, you will live the next 5 years trying to undo the damage.
I speak from experience. I made it a priority that my work place is a place full of harmony. I want to be able to be DIRECT and give feedback, not just receive it. If I work with "difficult" people, I need the freedom to be able to deal with them.
I had the experience of someone calling me "lazy" in an e-mail recently. I tried to talk it over. Did not work. So I went to HR and then the boss of this person. This person was talked to. Problem solved. No more difficulty.
That kind of freedom is imperative.
So think all this over. I hope somehow, someway, I said something of benefit to you.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I've never had to do it myself, but it seems to be generally held that playing offers off against each other is a bad idea, and tends to lead to ill-feeling right when you need it last.
My 1p worth.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Yeah, I'm thinking I should just say no. I don't really want it, the only attractive thing is the money.
I don't think they're difficult because they're American, I think they're difficult because they're lawyers. Who are capable of equal-opportunity obnoxiousness, regardless of nationality. I suspect there's probably one of the three who is "a character" (this is the preferred euphemism of the trade for hateful people) but the question is a red-flag to me anyway. Come to think of it, I do wonder why their original candidate has changed her mind, as well...
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
I don't think they're difficult because they're American, I think they're difficult because they're lawyers. Who are capable of equal-opportunity obnoxiousness, regardless of nationality.
Having worked for lawyers most of my career, I know all too well the truth of that! But that may not be why they're difficult.
In my case, my lawyers were difficult because they wanted a secretary who could get the work done right the first time, and on time, and couldn't find one until I came along. Also, because they wanted someone who would work the same long hours they did in order to get the job done.
And Duchess, I appreciate the compliment, but I'm not soft-spoken. My mother used to call me "Mr. Bluster" (the Howdy Doody puppet character) because even as a child I was ornery and outspoken. One of my lawyer bosses once told me that he tolerated my eccentricities because he knew he could count on me to do what he needed to have done.
So, la vie en rouge, if your gut feeling really does tell you to run away from the offer, then follow your gut feeling. But take a good long introspective look at everything involved before you do so.
And don't judge the one who turned it down. She probably had another offer that seemed more attractive, and decided that accepting it was better for her than honoring the commitment she had already made. I've been in that situation too, but I honored my previous commitment and have never regretted it.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I've been called back about a job I applied for in an American firm. They chose another candidate but apparently it's fallen through and now they're looking again. I don't like it as much as the one I've accepted (the interviewer mentioned working for 3 partners and asked the question "have you ever worked for difficult people?" which makes me suspiscious) so my instinct is to say no.
However - I think they probably are offering quite a bit more money than the one I've taken. So - do I interview for it anyway in the hopes of getting more money out of the people I actually want to work for?
No. For one thing, if you've just accepted another job, it's now too late to go for any other interviews. Also if you go for the interview there's a possibility that you might be offered the job, and if you don't want to take it you'll look like a time-waster.
The money may be better but I think your instincts are right on this. There's quite probably a reason why the money is better - as you've surmised from what you were asked. What it comes down to is whether you're the kind of person who can tolerate a difficult, possibly unhappy set-up in return for extra money. The money is no compensation if you're too stressed out and on edge to enjoy spending it.
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Don't do it! Seriously, that question "have you ever worked for a difficult person?" is the kind of thing that should send all but the truly desperate screaming from the room. The fact that their first candidate has vanished is another HUMONGOUS red flag. All the money in the world won't compensate for a stress heart attack.
Trust me. I've been in this situation, been truly desperate, and taken the job. I don't regret being able to feed my family as a result. I DO regret the flashbacks and intrusive memories that go along with post-traumatic stress disorder.
run away run away run away run away
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I don't think they're difficult because they're American, I think they're difficult because they're lawyers. Who are capable of equal-opportunity obnoxiousness, regardless of nationality.
I should have prefaced what I said (in case people think I am being too hard on my own kind) that I've worked 10 years in a company that was run by Europeans of a Scandinavian nature. I ended up accepting their offer after my mother said "You should work there since they are [Scandinavian]. They'll appreciate honesty and bluntness". My mother raised me to be blunt and honest...too much bluntness I fear. My mom is half-Danish, raised in a town of Danish/Swedish cultural rawness to be blunt. My whole family is this way, I feel my mother is to blame. I found I finally FIT IN there and I did not receive anymore speeches on political correctness, like I did when I worked for an American company earlier.
I just though had a phone interview for an American company half-a-mile from me...and the guy (American) really liked me. He wants me to come in for a second interview with all the top executives. Somehow I did not manage to screw that up with my ability to talk to much. But I did hold back. I did not talk to him the way I could with the French VP at the other company taking light years to tell me if they want me or not.
anyway, you've gotten some fantabulous advice! I think you should really consider if you want to be yelled at, called names and such with unreasonable deadlines and expected to pick it up the FIRST TIME...all of these things are possible, like Mr. Amanada B. told you. Lamb-chopped's words should also resound in your ears! Be warned!
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
And Duchess, I appreciate the compliment, but I'm not soft-spoken. My mother used to call me "Mr. Bluster" (the Howdy Doody puppet character) because even as a child I was ornery and outspoken. One of my lawyer bosses once told me that he tolerated my eccentricities because he knew he could count on me to do what he needed to have done.
Sacred bleu! You are not soft-spoken? You must be more like Lady Catherine! I have to admire you more!
BTW, I just wrote the French VP, Guy in the Holy Land (more stamps), cool laid-back brotherman and techie a THANK-YOU note EACH of them, by hand, in my bad hand-writing. I hope you approve of this. I know that this was how I was trained back in the day by my mentors. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[edited code. argh. I need to go for a walk to the post-office now. Chillax! ![[Cool]](cool.gif) ]
[ 23. July 2010, 02:35: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
One last word on the lawyers tangent and then I'll stop.
The hateful lawyers I've known aren't hateful because their secretaries/juniors can't do their jobs right. They are hateful because they get away with it and have an overinflated sense of their own importance. They are doing a very stressful, high-pressured job, and don't have the right personality to handle it. Take for example a partner I once worked for (I used to be a float secretary) who had a blue screaming fit because of a mistake with his sushi order (by the restaurant, not anyone in the office). There was no talking to him for about two hours afterwards. I refuse to excuse this kind of behaviour because it's not excusable.
I don't regard the pressure is an excuse for being rude and aggressive. They knew what they were walking into and decided that they wanted to do it so that they could become millionaires. You've made your Faustian pact with the great capitalist Sheitan, suck it up. As a very assertive and spunky colleague of mine says, if you wanted to leave the office at 6pm, you should have chosen to be a secretary (I love that girl ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ). But since you earn something like ten times more than I do, I refuse to feel bad about not being in the office if I'm not paid to be there.* I have every respect for legal interns who see what they're getting into and decide that it's not for them. But once you've decided that you want to do this job, I'm not going to give you a lot of sympathy if poor wickle diddums was in the office until midnight. You knew that was how it was going to be and I know how much you're getting paid for it.
I can deal with difficult lawyers, it's all about boundary setting* and making it clear that you are not a maid and expect to be spoken to with respect. And I think that eventually they end up having more respect for an assistant who makes it clear that s/he's not going to put up with that kind of crap.
However, it's hard work and as long as there are nice, courteous people in the world, I choose the latter. Like I said, I don't think habitual rudeness is excusable, and the fact that plenty of other lawyers know how to be polite to their secretaries proves that you don't have to behave that way. I note that the most hateful lawyers i have ever worked with all know how to be polite to their clients... OTOH, one of the most brilliant lawyers I have ever worked with (a dude who is the nemesis of the French tax authorities, recognised as one of the top fiscal lawyers in Europe) was charming, courteous and good-natured. All the time. So being hateful is not a requirement.
Anyway, I'm sticking with the nice people who pay less.
*leaving on time is one of my boundary setting principles. You want me to stay, you sign an overtime form. But the client's not going to like it unless it was strictly necessary for me to stay (especially when there is an evening secretary you could and should have passed the work to).
/end of tangent
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good
THANK YOU GOD ...
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Good news, Lamb Chopped?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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sewanee_angel
Shipmate
# 2908
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Posted
This thread is at the top of the pile for me to see just when I have job search related angst. I will indulge in a sort of theology in which I don't necessarily believe and assume it is a message from God and I was *meant* to post here today.
I have a job and I am grateful for it as I like being able to live indoors & have insurance. But I do not like the job very much as it is a very poor fit for my skills/peresonality. I have been here for 2 years--boss #1 was great and made the job bearable; boss #2 not so much. He's not a total nightmare but he tried to slip in massive changes on my production goals for the year at annual review time. Like I wouldn't read or notice the difference btwn the eval plan we'd discussed & agreed upon w/ signatures and the final form he needed me to sign ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) Things are not going to go well at the next review. It is time for another job.
Anyway. I digress. Just yesterday two jobs were posted that I would *really* like to have. Better yet, I think they'd be a great fit & I'd do a good job. The organization requires all applicants to submit materials via main HR's computerized system. And the postings try not to disclose the hiring supervisor but I have sussed out the supervisor for one of the jobs. I know no one at that particular office.
There will be scores of applications. How do I get my materials seen? Is it inappropriate for me to send my materials to the supervisor after applying via online HR? The posting doesn't say NOT to do that. I *really* want one of those jobs but don't know the best way to set myself up to get one.
Posts: 598 | From: a van down by the river | Registered: Jun 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Interview in 2 hours. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
A group interview process.
Spent 3 hours yesterday going over my responses to probable questions with my daughter. She had more gravitas then normal, but probably not enough.
I'd love this job. But the last time I interviewed, even though I got the job, my boss later told me I did a crappy interview because I assumed people knew what I knew. Can't do this this time. Have to tell them everything. And be human, and be nice, and be succint, and fit into the organization and...and....and.....
Pity the fool who teaches people how to job search when he has to job search as well. ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
I am prepared, I am ready, but I'm still bloody nervous.
[ 23. July 2010, 12:47: Message edited by: Og: Thread Killer ]
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
The hateful lawyers I've known . . . are hateful because they get away with it and have an overinflated sense of their own importance.
Yes, I've seen that too.
In my last job before I retired (assistant IT manager of a major international law firm), one of the junior associates was very seriously physically challenged, and was extremely nasty toward anyone who was not disabled. My back often "went out" in those days (surprisingly, it has done so much less often since I retired), and when it did I walked with a cane. One day I had to go to her office to help her with a problem, and when she saw me with my cane she was as sweet as could be!
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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sewanee_angel
Shipmate
# 2908
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
sewanee angel, I would not submit my materials to the manager for the position you want since the instructions say not to. However, I would go by their office and express interest. At least that's what I do!
I wasn't clear--darn multiple negatives in my writing. Sorry. The instructions do not expressly prohibit contact.
Would you go by the offices if you knew no one? And it was a department of a much larger organization (ie a university)? You are much bolder than I.
[ 23. July 2010, 17:53: Message edited by: sewanee_angel ]
Posts: 598 | From: a van down by the river | Registered: Jun 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sewanee_angel:
The organization requires all applicants to submit materials via main HR's computerized system.
And the postings try not to disclose the hiring supervisor but I have sussed out the supervisor for one of the jobs. I know no one at that particular office.
Do it that way then. Anything else will confuse them and cause more hassle for them and make them less likely to give you the job.
quote:
There will be scores of applications. How do I get my materials seen?
They are presumably trying to recruit someone for the job. So they will look at the applications. Asking for the applications to come online in a standard format probably makes it easier for them to look at them all.
quote:
Is it inappropriate for me to send my materials to the supervisor ... ?
Almost certainly yes, if it is a big bureacratic organisation (& it sounds like it)
If you really do know who the supervisor is & you are already working in another part of the same organisation then I think the less inappropriate thing to do is to talk to them. Not burst in and demand an interview but just drop in that you've seen the ad and are thinking of applying. Then if they come back positively you an say more, if not you have done no harm. Maybe you can even say you are interested in finding more about the job before you apply.
If you don't know them well enough to talk to then you probably don't know them well enough to know if they are the right person to send
Also NB some organisations have quite strict policies on equal opportunities and fairness and might actively try to prevent one candidate being given any information others don't have that might influence the hiring decision. So the manager might be positively forbidden to talk to you about the job or to consider your application before it goes through the right channels. There are even some places where HR anonymises initial applications before forwarding them for shortlisting. I doubt if that would happen in a university here, but it might in local government and even in some large private companies. If that sort of thing is going on then an out-of-channel application might be ruled out.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sewanee_angel:
Good Luck, Og!!!
Every thing right except......2 minutes late.
Never been late for an interview ever.
Gutted....absolutely gutted.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Good news, Lamb Chopped?
AG
Not for me personally, but for la vie en rouge, who had just announced a very smart decision (don't try for a job with horrific red flags). I was very relieved.
On the personal front, I continue to exist day by day (can't call it living) with virtually no contact week in and week out with the boss who made mincemeat of me. Which is probably the safest course, as he has totally demonized me in his own mind and to HR. So the least slip in anything and I'm history--and more important, my salary and family health insurance are history. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
But my health is suffering, and at home I'm behaving like a chihuahua on speed from all the anxiety. Tomorrow I take an exam that could be the first step toward getting out of his direct report pool--pray God that once I finish jumping through all the necessary hoops, one of the other departments down there will see fit to steal me away and give me a sane, non-hostile work environment. Everybody else in the division appears to like me . . .
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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sewanee_angel
Shipmate
# 2908
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
[QUOTE]Tomorrow I take an exam that could be the first step toward getting out of his direct report pool--pray God that once I finish jumping through all the necessary hoops, one of the other departments down there will see fit to steal me away and give me a sane, non-hostile work environment. Everybody else in the division appears to like me . . .
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Good luck.
Posts: 598 | From: a van down by the river | Registered: Jun 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
How did the exam go, LC?
that you get a good result and consequence...
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Well, I THINK I passed, but won't know till a month from now when the scores are posted. Thank you for prayers!
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
I find out this week if I got the job at the company with the French VP. If I don't, I am glad I kicked my own butt to interview at another company. Gotta keep the ball rollin'.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Having a hard time kicking that butt to get going again. Should find out today if I make it to a second round for the one job; would be nice to go farther but not confident at all.
After that, got a resume together for another more corporate organization.
But, need to start looking at my transferable skills in order to look beyond the one field I've been applying to.
That, and gotta get networking.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Same here, Og. It's not fun...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Waiting sucks!
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Og,
Any useful hints or tools for unearthing transferable skills would be appreciated if you come across them!
AG
[ 26. July 2010, 22:03: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Og,
Any useful hints or tools for unearthing transferable skills would be appreciated if you come across them!
AG
I'll let you know, which is more then I've heard so far.
Can't get anything done right now. Awful feeling.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I know exactly what you mean, Og. It's that horrible powerless feeling where you know that you don't know what you want to do, or how to find out what you want to do. Worse, I can't help you break out of it, because I'm still there myself. I don't even know whether it's just dissatisfaction with the jobs I've done, or with the field in general.
It helps to reserve a club with a nail in (especially in the absence of a TICTH thread) for a few people as well. Dunno about you, but mine are:
1. Feeds you platitudes about "living the dream" and thinks they're helping. You're not. I've looked at the dream, and I'd need a full-time job to mke up for the money I wouldn't make doing it.
2. Tells me all about the Careers service and their wonderful computer programme as if I've never heard of it. It's reached the point where Careers run when they see me coming, and the programme would have been lovely 15 years ago when I was a new graduate and the sort of person it's aimed at. Now it's just a reminder of what I once could have afforded to do.
3. The person who will help, but only on their terms. Passing my name on to the organiser of a course I'm not eligible for, and reminding me that "applying for jobs is a good idea"...
Right club, start swinging....
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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sewanee_angel
Shipmate
# 2908
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Posted
for all who are waiting on news from interviews.
I talked with someone who works in a completely different part of my organization (and at a higher level than me) about whether to only use the online HR application or to also contact the supervisor for a post (if that can be deduced from the posting--not always the case). He said that only submitting the application via the online HR system guarantees failure given the poor keyword search system HR uses to sort through resumes/applications ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
That brings up a question for me that I had not considered. How does one go about trying to get good keywords into a resume? I know about using "action verbs" and so forth. But tailoring a resume for keyword searches? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posts: 598 | From: a van down by the river | Registered: Jun 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sewanee_angel:
...
That brings up a question for me that I had not considered. How does one go about trying to get good keywords into a resume? I know about using "action verbs" and so forth. But tailoring a resume for keyword searches?
OK, I can do this now as a fellow job seeker and not feel like I'm counselling.
In this case you don't have to, but if you do, look at a job posting related to the position. Most organizations will have something either just for the opening or in a database. There are probably 10-20 key words somewhere in every job posting. Bash the key words somewhere in your resume, and your cover letter if they ask for one of those.
It is guess work but it does make a difference.
Its also why its better to network.
On another note, didn't hear today so I suspect that's gone down the tubes. Will call tomorrow but moving on.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sewanee_angel:
That brings up a question for me that I had not considered. How does one go about trying to get good keywords into a resume? I know about using "action verbs" and so forth. But tailoring a resume for keyword searches?
Do what I did...get a best friend and do internet searches...linkedin...facebook...everywhere...indeed...find the position you are in and put in KEY WORDS you find on there. My CV kept popping up in searches after I did that. My best friend kept typing while I called out the words. We made din din and made it a game.
Right now, still awaiting that NO I will surely get from French VP "We have a candidate who is less crazy than you, doesn't make jokes about free-basing c-r-a-c-k in a broken light-bulb, for one" (yes, I did act that crazy...what do you expect? I am worse IRL than I am on the ship.)
The SECOND phone interview I had set up with young man from company in my backyard ... DID NOT happen as HE DID NOT PICK UP HIS PHONE.
I had the rest of my wine (only a small glass, don't worry) and made dinner for myself...weird prego grape jelly onion soup recipe with pasta). I am eating it right now and will go for a nice walk soon.
I've joined meet-up to get more of a life...will attend one of those one day. I also am singing up front in church in a couple weeks. This way the fucking "do you have hobbies" question will be easier in the next interview.
After today's meeting at my work "I need ALL of you to GET MORE SERIOUS...I don't think you are, I have not given up on you yet, I would NOT be here if I did".
Well, I would make a hell-thread if I wrote more about that. Let's just say VP hired a friend of his to work with me and find out "everything duchess does..and do it" and that person GAVE UP AND REFUSED TO DO IT! My job is so easy? How do I know? Because that person TOLD ME!
I need to keep interviewing people. I need to have a better attitude too. I need to play Room at the Top again by Adam Ant and go walking. That always get me in the job posting cv mood. apply apply apply.
[edited Roock! Freeze! Rock.]
[ 28. July 2010, 02:30: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Hmm...havn't heard yet and the person who would have the answer is away until tomorrow. Not a good sign.
But, talked to a lot of people and almost got a counselling appointment for next week.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Didn't move on in the job interview process. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I relied upon my intellect far too much and thus made some significant mistakes - at least 3 that I know of, all because I put far too much pressure on myself. Not happy with myself. Learning from it but not happy.
I really hope that community gets a good person for that position.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
job in works #2
recruiter's e-mail for job-in-my-own-backyard"[young sales guy] feels AWFUL that he missed your call and has not reached out since… He says hang tight. Has had a rough time managing the interviews and getting his work done, so he says he’s sorry!
He is meeting the VP of Sales later today and he’ll get back to me tomorrow."
job in works #1
About the other job with French VP...I called my recruiter who is contacting her colleague overseas to find out the scoop. "No news is often good news", she said. I do hope so. I see they were in the news, so a lot going on at the company. But I can't think what could be more important than moi.
[edited...correcting grammar till the fat lady sings.]
[ 30. July 2010, 02:05: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Looks like there might be a lot of commiserating going on... wish I could help, folks.
I have, however, found the ideal job to mention to sphincters who feed me platitudes about "going for the dream". I could really grab with both hands a job as a fitter here. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Just wanted to kvetch gently here.
I am sick and tired of men who can not be gentlemen and women who can not be ladies in replying back with a simple
"Yes" or "No"-especially. Let us know.
To date (Just in case anybody cares outside of my little disco-bubble):
-#2 job opportunity based in my backyard, young tired salesmen never ever returned my calls
-#1 job opportunity based in Holy Land continues to be silent to even recruiter. They were in the news..AGAIN...but I don't makes excuses for them anymore. I need to face that fact that they are JUST NOT THAT INTO ME. Recruiter 'fessed up that they have a golden internal candidate referral. May they kiss my left bountiful beautiful butt cheek. I GIVE UP and you will hear NO MORE about them now. I also will apply to 5 new places tonight and say out loud "TAKE THAT!" each time. Good motivation.
-#3 job opportunity based in SJ, new one, head-hunter did not submit me there as I had no experience with that particular product line 3 or 4 weeks ago but AHA...said company got TURNED DOWN when they made an offer to someone to hire..and are desperate. Plus they did an internal audit co$ting them I am $ure a fair bit of money...finding out what mama knew all along "hire someone good at making sales, they don't need to have this product line experience coming in". Well DUH. So now I have just been freshly submitted by surfer dude head-hunter. May they wisely hire me. I am "annoyingly perky" (have been told) and a joyful ray of sunshine. with double-rainbows.
Gossip: The company I did interviews with and thought I had an offer coming...a head-hunter told me "the reason you did not hear back from them was that the VP suddenly resigned...hello? Hello?" "Um, I am just digesting that information, thank you" (when I was really thinking #$%@! SO it wasn't something lame-o I said to ruin it...no...he jumped ship!)
So I will now play "Room at the Top" by Adam Ant and other such motivating songs...I need to get cracking at applying to 5 different jobs tonight... ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
[edited with rainbows.]
[ 04. August 2010, 02:01: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Gossip company is one based on the East Coast that I never talked about as I thought after a great interview the VP either hated something I said about a partner when I was candid or freaked out by my blue checkered wallet matching my shirt (he actually expressed that, this dynamic white-haired man, to me "Wait...your wallet matches your shirt...?" "Yes, I like the color BLUE.")
[colorfully edited.]
[ 04. August 2010, 02:04: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
for all here on the jobhunting merry-go-round.
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
4 days away from things but bot feeling all that rested and refreshed.
The heat isn't helping.
Gotta start networking.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Hints and tips about networking would be appreciated... Mine is on hold whilst I revise both message and targets, as it just kept giving me gloomy answers.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
You have to know generally what you want to do, otherwise when they ask you, you go...Ummm....and look foolish.
Then, you contact anybody you know who possibly knows somebody who does that, trying to get a connection.
I draw the line at talking to strangers on buses.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Hints and tips about networking would be appreciated... Mine is on hold whilst I revise both message and targets, as it just kept giving me gloomy answers.
AG
Linkedin. I use it to see who knows who. I also apply to jobs in it. I also do searches on the internet. I once applied to a company in my
area that was just featured in an article. About 2 weeks later, a VP called me assuming I saw his fresh job posting. So it pays to be a detective on the internet.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Got another interview with a company #4. VP from great white north, zooms down a lot of Silicon Valley. Interview in person with this person next week.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
You have to know generally what you want to do, otherwise when they ask you, you go...Ummm....and look foolish.
Unfortunately, that pretty much sums up my problem at the moment. I'm currently at the stage of finding out what people I have known have done/are doing in the hope of getting some idea. It's not going very well... It doesn't help that people keep suggesting the Careers Service computer system which, being aimed at undergraduates, generates a list of things I'd have to get (yet...) another degree to go into at the bottom. Or that the most obvious ones to go into from where I am now are all on my faecally-contaminated stick list. Doesn't help either that the people I get to talk to most often are sales reps, which is on that list too.
I know we have a bunch of other scientists on the ship (one has offered a prayer for guidance - hope he has St Jude's ear), but I don't know how to attract them to this thread, and I think a separate thread would be considered undue duplication.
I know what I'd love to do, but I could have exactly the same effect on my career by leaving my job, donating all my savings to charity, and camping out in a library for the rest of my life. I know, I've researched it fairly thoroughly, which is why I get so pissed off by people who tell me to go for the dream. Hence the comment about Bravissimo.
Duchess, I don't know where I'd be without LinkedIn (in terms of finding people, at least). Have you paid up for the full version? If so, is it worth it?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Hey AG, Nope, I have not paid for the full version of Linkedin. Glad to see you are utilizing it though. I don't bother with other social networks for looking for work...maybe I should...
[edited for grammar]
[ 07. August 2010, 15:36: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
This has been read. Oh well, c'est le guerre. *Sigh*
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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sewanee_angel
Shipmate
# 2908
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Posted
For all searching for jobs and searching for knowledge of what sort of jobs for which they want to search.
Posts: 598 | From: a van down by the river | Registered: Jun 2002
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