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Source: (consider it) Thread: AS: Job Search Support Thread
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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I had a job interview this afternoon. The job's not quite what I'd wanted originally and not quite as much as I'd like to earn. However, it's with a fantastic employer and will give me the change that I'm desperate to achieve. Fingers crossed. I'll find out the results in the next few days.
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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Curiosus, I hope you have a positive outcome from your interview.

--------------------
il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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Well, I now need another job for sure.

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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Agent Smith
Shipmate
# 3299

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quote:
Originally posted by Agent Smith:

Applying to get into some form of "Education" adminsitration as I am enjoying where I am now. However trying to convince future employers that 1) I will stay (not had a permanent job in 3 years due to travel and not finding a real job yet) and 2) that the skills I have are transferrable.

Have applied to a university for a role which I would enjoy, could do, would be challenged by etc. however previous experience in a different sector!.

I have an interview for this role next tuesday.

Now the worrying thing is that 1) I am in a temporary role whcih would mean i need the day off (not keen on doing this so quickly into a new contract!)

2) What are universities looking for in the way of information etc. (as I said I have not worked in "education" for long but would enjoy the post, be challenged etc!. Any views?

Pleased I have an interview NOT from an agency and for a real job paying real money (salary is quite good!)

[Votive] all those still looking and losing confidence in themselves.

--------------------
"I'm so English, I am probably descended from a Cricket Bat and a cup of tea".

James May - 20th Century

http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentsmith1974/

Posts: 536 | From: Inside M25 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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Papio, sorry things didnt work out, but it was what you expected,do PM me with regards to this and other matters.

--------------------
il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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Didn't get the job. Thought that the interview went really well but should have realised that it wouldn't work out - am never quite good enough to get the job. Quite cross with myself for getting my hopes up, makes the fall that much harder.
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557

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Had an interview for the permanant teaching post that I have been temporarily doing for a year. Didn't get the job - am feeling gutted. [Waterworks]

I think I didn't use the right buzz words, and probably didn't sell myself enough. I'm just not very good at stating my strenghts.

--------------------
Less is more ...

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EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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quote:
Originally posted by The Kat in the Hat:
am feeling gutted. [Waterworks]

[Votive]

I know what you're going through and am thinking of you. What we both really need right now is a bottle of wine to go with the box of tissues [Biased]

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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557

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I've cracked open the lager - I'm now feeling angry.
I've just spoken to my job-share partner, who confirmed what I thought. The job has gone to another NQT, who has done 2 TPs at the school, as well as temporary cover in Y3. She has very little experience in Y2, and had said to me that she wasn't keen on teaching the KS1 year group. Now I really want to know what I did or said that made her more desirable than me. [Mad]

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Less is more ...

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Corpus cani

Ship's Anachronism
# 1663

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Applied for a job I really wanted - I mean really really - not just applied 'cos I need to find a job and anything'll do, but the sort for which I'd have applied even if I wasn't looking for a job. Spend hours honing my CV and letter to perfection and many pounds sending it by courier.

Didn't even get an interview. Didn't even get a letter saying I wasn't getting an interview. Just a weasly e-mail.

Naturally, I'm feeling depressed and disappointed and insecure and inadequate, but most of all I feel an entirely unjustifiable anger. How DARE they not want me for the job I wanted?!?! [Confused]

Cc

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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.

Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Cheer up, Corpus. It may not have been anything personal. It is depressing, but - better luck next time. You could contact them to ask why you weren't selected for interview, if sufficiently motivated, although you might get the "we had so many excellent candidates to choose from, it was extremely difficult" kind of response.

I too have wasted my time in the past in this way. And sometimes discovered afterwards that they had a suitable candidate in mind all along, and that it wasn't me, but that as they were legally required to advertise the job they had to go through the formalities. You rarely do know what's going on behind the scenes, or what the competition is like if it genuinely is an open market.

Meanwhile TICTH companies that send you maps of how to get to their offices that aren't to scale (very clever, you didn't actually say it was on a soulless industrial estate on the other side of town, it looks as if you're only a relatively short walk from the station), and present the truth about the job and the working conditions in such a way that, while not technically untrue, it's misleading. I can see why they do it - if they told it like it was most people wouldn't apply, but it does just waste both parties' time.

[ 17. June 2006, 10:37: Message edited by: Ariel ]

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Six months, not a single interview. [Waterworks]

I don't know what's going on. Is it the d*&^& PhD? Is it the churchwork in my history? Am I still being blackballed by my employer of six years ago?

[Waterworks]

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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LC, you might need to rethink your strategy, do you need to use your employer of six years ago, can you use a more recent referee instead? A good website to check out is the httP://www.JobHuntersBible.com

[ 19. June 2006, 11:08: Message edited by: les@BALM ]

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il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Are you applying for jobs that need a PhD? You may be coming across as over-qualified.

My own strategy would be not to mention it, and see if you get any further, but that's my own personal view.

Is the churchwork relevant to the jobs you're applying for? If not, you may have to look at what you've got out of it that could be used in the setting of whatever job you're applying for.

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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LC - I find I have to just tell most jobs that I got a degree in order not to be "over-qualified" and even then I am sometimes seen as "over-qualified" - what are you applying for?

I have had employers ask me directly what i got in my degree, and I gave some of them a lower grade than what I actually got.

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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

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les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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Papio, I think you are doing a diservice to yourself by not giving you correct degree grade, it should be something that opens doors not closes them. Most employers would probably expect you to have a post grad, perhaps this is what you need to address [Biased]

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il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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I think so.

I am not sure what percentage of people with my degree grade go on to do post-graduate study or end up in academia. I think ken once said that it was a "significant proportion" but that could mean anything. [Biased]

Employers who are less well educated do not like to employ people who may have a better standard of education then themselves.

--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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Papio, the answer is to choose your future employers with care, who will value you and your degree.

--------------------
il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Having got a new job recently, I will pass on my experience - for any help it may be.

My main problems were: a) I'm a bit old and b)the job I was in was markedly more senior/well paid than the ones I was applying for and c) I was really desperate to leave where I was

I compiled a CV that categorised my Skills & Experiences - so I had Information Skills: Management and Administration: IT and Technical. I had an optional 4th which was stuff outwith formal work - writing, craftwork, theatre.

I had three or four lines to begin with, saying what I was really killer at (innovation, creative problem solving, originating & organising) - and to prove it - and then I would arrange my 3 groups with whichever I thought was the most relevant to that particular job at the top.

I would say that interesting as my present post was, I was getting a bit stale etc and was really looking for job satisfaction - which this particular post would so provide.

Of 4 applications, I got one inexplicable refusal, and 3 offers of interview. First one I didn't get (but didn't want, so that was ok), 2nd I did, and 3rd was after I had accepted No 2, so I don't know how that one would have gone.

I think the difference this time from other periods in my life (frequently running to months, years even) when I have been job hunting, is that I was a lot clearer on my selling points. I had enough perspective to see that in 30 odd years, I actually had done some good stuff. 30 years is also long enough to 'lose' some duff patches (quite a few directionless years in my 20s/30s).

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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I am not sure how I say this, without sounding like an insufferable snob, but I have two problems with work that i don't know how to solve.

The first is that the jobs "at the bottom" tend to bore me to tears, at best, and I don't perform well simply because I am so crashingly bored out of my skull and because I am not giving a chance to use any of my real skills because they are considered above my pay grade. It's like the fact that I found my degree very considerably easier then my GCSEs - for the same sorts of reasons.

The second is that I tend to be working alongside people with very little education who are clearly lower working class and, I have been told, my middle-classness is rather apparent to most people.

Therefore, my face tends not to fit, I tend to have little in common with my co-workers and I tend to be so bored and grumpy that the management won't promote me even if I was doing a good job (which usually I am not) because I might "infect" the rest of the team.

I am not really sure what I can do about these things.

--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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When I say "churchwork" I mean professional, paid church work--the kind of thing you can't leave off a resume without having embarrassingly huge wholes (like, years long). But I have a vague suspicion that "missionary" puts a few people off.

As for the PhD--it's true I'm applying for jobs that don't specify it, because the only ones that DO specify it are in higher ed--and I'm most unlikely to get those because I haven't paid my dues by teaching first as adjunct staff for several years (the normal career path). I could start now, of course, but it's much less than a living wage, because it's designed for people still living on grant money. No benefits. And this is a VERY competitive town, and I can't relocate.

The blackball is from a job I held for three years (thus can't omit) and the only job that doesn't involve a certain amount of self-employment.

I could leave the PhD off my resume, but here that's called "falsifying" and can get you the boot if you're discovered later. Which would not be a hard thing, if anyone bothered to google my real name. Advice?

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Papio--have you considered looking at this issue itself as a major challenge, to be solved creatively? You have a real challenge there, and not an easy one to solve. You have the brain to do it. And I suspect the challenge would keep you mentally busy enough that you'd have no time to feel bored--at least, until the promoted you for being an all-round nice guy. [Biased]

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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LC, you could rephrase missionary with the title of the role you had, i.e. Educator. Regarding the reference problem, isnt there someone else at the previous employment who would give you a reasonable reference, you have the choice who gives you the references from previous employment, can be tricky, but there are always ways round seemingly impossible problems.
Papio, you need to find a place of employment where you are happy to work. Do some evaluating now of who you are and what you want, and want to be, before launching yourself back into the job market.

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il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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Papio, give the following a go. http://www.cdm.uwaterloo.ca/index2.asp

--------------------
il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Papio, why are you looking for jobs at the bottom anyway? They don't seem to be all that easy to get.

I bottom-jobbed for a long time (in my case, secretarial work). I didn't look for work in the profession I had a qualification in because I thought Oh, I've forgotten all that stuff. Then I got one via a temping agency, discovered I could do it on the basis of native wit and general experience, and the rest is history. Later, in the same line of work, I went for an interview, was asked 'Why didn't you work in # for 10 years?' replied cheerfully 'Just lucky, I guess' and got away with it...

So, go for non-bottom jobs: what's to lose?

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
When I say "churchwork" I mean professional, paid church work

Sorry, still haven't any idea what that involves - whether it's admin or pastoral.

quote:
I could leave the PhD off my resume, but here that's called "falsifying" and can get you the boot if you're discovered later.
Yes; claiming qualifications you don't have will certainly get you that here but not claiming qualifications you do have is more of a grey area and it does happen. But if it's illegal where you are, don't do it.

You say you're in a competitive town - it could be that there are a lot of people going for the same jobs. If an employer has 50 applications to choose from and only plans to interview about 8 at the most, then they can pick and choose and if you haven't had direct solid recent experience in that field, then, unless you have personal contacts, you're unlikely to come close to getting an interview.

It might be worth asking someone to look over your CV and a specimen covering letter to see if you're presenting yourself to your best advantage and whether your applications are coming across in the way you intended. I once got my CV checked out by a recruitment agency who gave me a lot of good advice as to why I wasn't getting interviews and I did after that.

I don't know what sort of jobs you're applying for but I wonder if temporary work might be a way in if you can get it? OK it is temporary and the pay isn't great, but it would give you up-to-date work experience and could get you some new referees. Also, once you're in a company you're in a better position to apply for other jobs in it - or decide having seen it for yourself that you don't want to work there.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Yes, I'm signing up for a temp agency today. (Not many of them seem to take writers/editors!)

"Professional church work" refers to missionary service (in every area but those reserved to pastors in our denom) and to several years at our denom headquarters, putting out national publications, doing educational stuff, and leading workshops. I could lump that under "publications" or "education" but the name of the organization I worked for is a dead giveaway that I was in Christian mission service.

As for choosing my references, well.... It appears that nobody ever bothers to ask for references around here (at least the people I've applied to). Even when an alternate reference is in their hands, they just pick up the phone and call HR at the organization they want a reference from. And since HR there is precisely the place which is badmouthing me (based on a nasty thing left in my file by my ex-friend), well....

I'm attempting to head this off at the pass by handing them names and phone numbers up front, like in my cover letter (people they also know and respect) or by including typed letters of reference in the original application. But as long as they continue to call HR instead of the people I've referenced, well, I'm stuffed. Unless HR somehow comes to their senses and stops, as I've asked them. But it may be too late.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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LC, I think you are being over sensitive about your past missionary work, you cant change the organisation you worked for, but you can make it best work for you. Consider the transferable skills you've gained and have these in your personal profile of your CV, and as I said list the professional roles you had with the missionary organisation, most employers will look at this rather than just the name of the organisation and write you off. Many clergy leave the church and get jobs elsewhere, not too dissimilar to yourself.

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il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

Posts: 1863 | From: Canada, eh! | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I could lump that under "publications" or "education" but the name of the organization I worked for is a dead giveaway that I was in Christian mission service.

I think my CV was more effective when I extracted the actual skills and then only mentioned the context they were developed in second. (The actual employers I worked for were all listed in my job history at the end, but not necessarily in the headline information).

I found in that way I could make stronger, better supported, statements eg 'Developing information resources, and proactively shaping acquisitions policy for the needs of users in the areas of education, research and public policy' pulled together aspects of 3 different jobs.

So I would tend to hit 'em with 'Skilled communicator, accustomed to producing publications to high standards and tight deadlines etc etc..an experienced educator who has lead participative workshops for multi-lingual, all-age groups etc etc'. You can indicate a degree of ethical and moral concern about what you put you highly accomplished skills towards communicating without having to foregroud your particular religious affiliations, I would have thought.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Suzywoozy
Shipmate
# 6259

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I think my CV was more effective when I extracted the actual skills and then only mentioned the context they were developed in second. (The actual employers I worked for were all listed in my job history at the end, but not necessarily in the headline information).

Can I ask how you structured this? I've been advised (as I( have a 8 year employment gap) to do this sort of CV but am not sure how to actually structure it.

Thanks.

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My life.

Posts: 658 | From: Ambridge | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I'd love to know too.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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moi aussi

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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jen.

Godless Liberal
# 3131

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This might be of interest to you.

Skills Based CV

PM me for more info.

J

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Was Jenny Ann, but fancied being more minimal.

Posts: 5318 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
obble
Shipmate
# 10868

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My turn to dive into this thread...

My current job in the Chaplaincy finishes at the end of August, so from the beginning of September I am currently jobless. As my accommodation is provided with the job, I'm loosing that too, though I could move back in with my parents if I have to (but would rather not).

So far have managed to get one interview for more work in the same field, but didn't get the job [Frown]

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Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

Posts: 1700 | From: Some other planet | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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To all those who asked about skill-based CV:

Opening Statement - about 4 lines - in which I summed myself up. eg 'I am a skilled information manager with a wide experience in print and electronic media. Adept at creative problem solving, I have particular strengths in setting up new projects...'

I would say, DO NOT BE MODEST at this point. You have skills and achievments: sell them.

Then consider what the main types of work you have done, and what the essential skills were that enabled you to do it.

What do you know most about?

What, in generalised terms, are the big things you have done?

I think you will be surprised at just what you can justly lay claim to. Don't think 'church work' so much as the activities and roles - teaching? writing? managing? organizing? administering?

Words like 'flexible', 'versatile', 'innovative', 'creative', 'energetic', 'committed', 'dedicated' - if you can honestly apply them to yourself, so so unsparingly.

By the time I had finished my CV even I felt I would employ me - I just sounded so good.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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Many thanks to both Obble and Firenze!

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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

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Suzywoozy
Shipmate
# 6259

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Thank you Firenze and Jenny Ann.I found what you had to say very useful as this is a completely new way of looking at a CV for me and didn't really know where to start.

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My life.

Posts: 658 | From: Ambridge | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
DO NOT BE MODEST

Ok.

"blah blah I'm great everyone loves me I am highly intelligent and breezed my degree and I am not a bad guitarist either blah blah manager X thinks I was fantastic at Y and Dr Z thinks I could be a Dr myself if I wanted and blah blah waffle waffle employ me 'cos I rule blah blah"

Will that do?

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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
DO NOT BE MODEST

Ok.

"blah blah I'm great everyone loves me I am highly intelligent and breezed my degree and I am not a bad guitarist either blah blah manager X thinks I was fantastic at Y and Dr Z thinks I could be a Dr myself if I wanted and blah blah waffle waffle employ me 'cos I rule blah blah"

Will that do?

I think you might want to lose the note of defensive insecurity.

You have a degree - is that something everyone has? Chances are you've even read a book - several probably. Lots haven't. In short, you are literate, educated and intelligent.

You've had jobs, done tasks, taken responsibilities - learnt things, formed judgments, made decisions.

To summarise those things concisely and positively is not immodest, merely truthful.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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I dunno, I find that employers don't want someone who is literate, educated and intelligent.

They want a mindless droid who will do things without thinking, asking questions or raising objections, who finds it easy to concentrate on tasks of mind-numbing, soul-destroying vacouity and who is good at all the important but rather uninteresting basic, daily things that the less academically able do tend to be good at. In all honestly, I am not good at those things. I tend not to notice if the carpet needs hovering (well, until it really *does* need hovering. Then I notice) or that a label is on a bit squint. Then again, I will notice if what Smith says on Page 146 of his treatise on Hick's Theodicy is not easy to square with what Hick said on page 32 of "Evil and The God of Love", or if Jones is using a re-hash of a discredited argument in page 328 of her "Towards a Feminist Anarcho-Communitarianism". I don't think I am better, or worse, than someone who will notice a bit of dust but wouldn't make it past the first page of Jone's work (or would not even consider picking it up in the first place) but the fact remains that the other person is the sort of person employer's want. They do not want people like me.

Unless my friends are right when they say I will only be truly happy in academia and the best thing I can do is get on an MA, MPhil or possibly Ph. D asap and try and keep myself alive as best I can until then. Perhaps they are. I am not quite sure why I am fighting this idea, but maybe I do need to stop fighting it and got on with my proposal. Close friends and family assure me, and would probably assure you if you asked them, that I tend to be too laid back, not terrifically interested, and to "walk around with my head in the clouds" - until I am asked about books, ideas, theories (or, tbh, popular music) when I suddenly become alert and interested. I am the sort of person who can write a First class essay without too much of a strain (provided there is a spell-checker handy), but walks past the end of my street or takes half an hour to find his keys. People regularly say they saw me in the street, but that I appeared so deep in my own thoughts/own little world that I walked straight past them without noticing. They are probably right - at any rate I never recall seeing them or hearing them shout my name at me. I have looked up from a book I was reading on the train, and found that I was several stations (or more) past the one I had intended to alight at. I got called a nutty professor before I even had an undergraduate degree. (Why am I telling you lot all about this?)

My last job seriously expected me to believe that you can't know someone or get on with them unless you know their brother's birthday off the top of your head and you know exactly what school they went to. I am sorry, but that is bullshit.

I am aware that I sound like a snob and a loser. Perhaps I actually AM a snob and a loser - although I very much hope otherwise.

[Hot and Hormonal]

My secret fear is that I am not very bright, and wouldn't be capable of a Ph. D. What I would do then, I truly do not know. It would probably involve becoming the drunk at the end of the bar whom everyone wishes would just piss off and leave them alone.

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Infinite Penguins.
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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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On the other hand, the charity shop manager where I volunteered for a year, quickly noticed the fact that I love (almost worship, frankly [Hot and Hormonal] ) books and put me in charge of them. I trippled sales of books (and profits on books) within the first six months. [Big Grin]

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Infinite Penguins.
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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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Papio, it sounds to me as though you've been going for the wrong sort of jobs so far. You need something where intellectual nuttiness is postively encouraged [Biased] You mentioned that you did really well selling books: have you thought about working for a specialist bookseller or as an editor for a small publishing house? I'm not talking about Waterstones or Penguin but somewhere that really values specialist knowledge. The pay wouldn't be great but you might enjoy the work and perhaps even meet like-minded colleagues?
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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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If Oxfam would pay my bills, without a penny left over, I would go and do the books there again tomorrow and never come out ever again. Unless I ever get 'round to that Ph. D proposal......

[ 26. June 2006, 13:52: Message edited by: Papio ]

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Infinite Penguins.
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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808

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If that's the case, why don't you start a serious search for a job as a specialist bookseller or a trainee editor? Your charity shop experience will look really good on the CV - make sure that you actually put down "tripled book sales in six months". Potential employers like to see quantifiable evidence that you can do the job as it helps them to visualise what you can do for their business.

Have a look at The Bookseller's job page to see what's about. You might have to work part-time to start with but it might just get your foot in the door. You could even combine PhD research and part-time bookselling at some point in the future......

[ 26. June 2006, 14:03: Message edited by: Curiosus ]

Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio:
I dunno, I find that employers don't want someone who is literate, educated and intelligent.

You're hanging out with the wrong employers

quote:
They want a mindless droid ...[snip]
STOP going for jobs as a mindless droid. It's obviously not your forte

quote:
Unless my friends are right when they say I will only be truly happy in academia
Possibly. But there are other areas of work between Drudge and Professor (or, indeed Drudge and Drunk). Curiosus' suggestion of bookselling is a good one. I've done that. I've also been various sort of administrator, record-keeper, librarian, researcher, editor, proof-reader, craftworker, system admin, web developer and general IT bod(for all that I can't program a line).

quote:
People regularly say they saw me in the street, but that I appeared so deep in my own thoughts/own little world that I walked straight past them without noticing.
I've got one at home like that. So you too could go from absent-minded geographer with musical leanings to leading scientist.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Okay, maybe they don't want mindless droids, but I'm finding that in my field (writers and editors) they seem to prefer people without advanced degrees. All the notices say "BA", "some college" or even (god forbid) "high school diploma."

I can't UN-get my PhD. I'm afraid I'm starting to leave it off my resume (bad Lambie). But I can't leave the master's off as well, since it's clear from my job history that I taught at university, and they all know what that means.

I wish there was some proper way of saying to people, "Look, I know I've got the damned degree, but will you just forget about it please and offer me whatever money you choose? Stop trashing my resume before you ever contact me because you're so sure that I would want too much." Meanwhile the desperate PhD goes off to work at McDonald's....

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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What does "some college" mean?

I assume it doesn't mean "went to uni but lost interest and/or was too thick to get the BA" so what it means I cannot tell.

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Infinite Penguins.
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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Actually, that's exactly what it means. Took some college classes but for whatever reason, came away without a degree.

Of course, there might be better reasons for that. [Biased]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965

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One job hunting tip is to network, network, network...!

Seriously, I lived in the Far East for years and it's second nature to me now but I'm surprised that back here in the UK almost no-one seems to do it.

If you know what kind of work you want to go get in touch with people already doing it at interesting organisations/companies/institutions. Doesn't matter whether there's a job going there or not. Say you'd really appreciate some of their time telling you what the job/company is like.

They may then remember you if they hear of an interesting opportunity and pass the details on to you. Or recommend you if someone asks them if they need any good people. Or they may think of other useful people you can talk to. And so the chain leads on.

It's not about getting a job through the back door (though than can happen and very unfair it is too to other candidates) but may just mean that your application form is looked at just that little bit longer / you get to know about jobs you may not otherwise have spotted the ads for...etc etc

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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen

Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?

Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Actually, that's exactly what it means. Took some college classes but for whatever reason, came away without a degree.

Of course, there might be better reasons for that. [Biased]

Bill Gates quit college to be a billionaire instead.
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged



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