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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Pastor "stiffs" the help! Or, Americans are weird about tips.
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
Hey, you're funny! You ought to write for television.
We already do. Most of your funny people are Canadian.
Well, that made ME laugh. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
ignorant loud US tourists
BTW this is fucking rich. The aussies who come through here are loud, rude, ass-grabbers who like to get in fights at the drop of a hat and think they have a right to get drunk and be dicks and we're somehow obliged to serve them.
but you know what? I'm going to be the better man and assume these assholes don't represent an entire nation.
No, no... the getting massively drunk part sounds about right...
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Seeing as American tourists spent AUS$1.8 billion in Australia in 2011, the "fuck you" attitude seems potentially self-harming.
Was that about when Oprah visited?
EDIT: Note, on no account should any Aussies go offending the Chinese. It's just not going to be worth it.
[ 01. February 2013, 01:14: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
but you know what? I'm going to be the better man and assume these assholes don't represent an entire nation.
Sounds fair. I'll meet that and work on the basis it's possible not all Americans are uncouth fat jerks.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Seeing as American tourists spent AUS$1.8 billion in Australia in 2011, the "fuck you" attitude seems potentially self-harming.
Was that about when Oprah visited?
Was that in 2011? My numbers were for 2011.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Sigh. You're gonna make me Google it...
Yep. She was here in December 2010, and the shows aired in January 2011. So if any year was going to be boosted my a whole bunch of Oprah fans coming down to ooh and ah at the things they saw on television, it would've been 2011. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Love your toque, by the way.
Now I'm putting you on speed dial or whatever the ship allows. This is about the most lovingest thing anymouse has ever said to me. (and yes, I am wearing a toque in the house, always do, how'd you know, and I am not making this up. Must be love, I'm just giddy.)
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
ignorant loud US tourists
BTW this is fucking rich. The aussies who come through here are loud, rude, ass-grabbers who like to get in fights at the drop of a hat and think they have a right to get drunk and be dicks and we're somehow obliged to serve them.
but you know what? I'm going to be the better man and assume these assholes don't represent an entire nation.
No, no... the getting massively drunk part sounds about right...
The reason the Aussies don't like the loud Myrrhcan tourists is precisely because many of our own are of the same stereotype.
I have a mild American accent because I attended an International school in SE Asia. Some people hear me and immediately give me cold shoulder. It's quite remarkable.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I see no prophet takes Mercans to task for paying low wages to waitstaff. Like Canadians don't as well? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
I see no prophet takes Mercans to task for paying low wages to waitstaff. Like Canadians don't as well?
at least in the Yukon the tipping tradition is the same as here. I have no idea what the servers make, though. figured it was rude to ask.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Trust me, it is all over Canada. At least two of my 40 something years old nieces would be living in abject poverty if it were not for tips.
I learnt not to tip in New Zealand. There they earn wages. In India tipping is not expected, but I find that a 20 rupee tip on a bill of 150 rupees is gratefully received.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Comment has been made about Australian being notoreously bad tippers - rightly so, because we pretty well all grew up with the understanbding that tipping was ONLY to give thanks for exceptional service.
Furthermore, we also grew up with realistic mandated wages, a system supported to varying degrees by both major parties. The Liberal (i.e. Republican) party was removed from office in 2007, after 12 years in office, due to an intense public campaign against their wage/conditions policy.
Our national minimum wage acts as a safety net for employees to provide minimum rates of pay for employees not covered by awards or agreements.
In 2012 Australia's minimum wage was $15.96 per hour or $606.40 per week. Now, realistically, an employee's basic rate of pay depends on such things as their age, job classification and what industrial instrument they're covered by (e.g. a modern award, pre-modern award, transitional Pay Scale, workplace agreement and so on). Employers and employees cannot agree to a rate of pay which is less than the applicable minimum wage. An employee may also be entitled to other allowances or loadings, depending on the job they do (e.g. a casual employee may be entitled to a casual loading).
National minimum wages for apprentices, juniors & trainees
For junior employees, the minimum rates are:
Under 16 years of age $5.87
At 16 years of age $7.55
At 17 years of age $9.22
At 18 years of age $10.90
At 19 years of age $13.17
At 20 years of age $15.59.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re signing "pastor" instead of a proper title:
Actually, in some Christian circles, that is a proper title.
The pastor, if officially ordained, might technically be a reverend. But some people balk at the title, saying only God is to be revered. Plus "Pastor" sounds more personable. You can use it the same way someone might address a priest as "Father".
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
the giant cheeseburger: quote:
That's why staff in Australia are offended when ignorant loud US tourists offer them tips, they don't like being associated with sex workers.
You mean Americans do their odious tipping in restaurants by tucking bills in Aussie wait staff g-strings?
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
[QUOTE]You've basically got a bunch of slaves who have to rely on the kindness of their masters rather than actually being entitled to wages.
I thought slavery had been abolished in the USA or are my textbooks incorrect?
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Comment has been made about Australian being notoreously bad tippers - rightly so, because we pretty well all grew up with the understanbding that tipping was ONLY to give thanks for exceptional service.
Pretty much true for England too. The expectation is that you you are paid for what you do and very few people in other jobs get tips so why should a restaurant be any different?
I always tip but tip much more if the person serving smiles, listens and has some interaction over and above waiting duties. Following the company format never gets a big tip: individuality and character always does. It helps too if there's a child or older adult in the party and there is a genuine desire to help them. A bigger tip always comes when Mrs Mark has her teapot refilled with hot water for free without asking. Small beer I know but attention to detail gets rewarded.
I always ask how tips are allocated: adding to the crecit card bill doesn't necessarily mean that the staff get it. If it's been a great time I like to reward everyone, if one person has been esp good, I give something extra to them.
If it's bad, I've been known to remove/not pay cover charges or automatically added service charges. One or two have questioned this but I always have a reason to hand with facts. If you don't meet the contract, you don't get the deal.
I'd never advertise my occupation in the way that the OP says whatever the provocation. Remember though, be kind to your waitoing staff, they have sight of your food before you get it.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
The situation of wait staff / servers whatever you call them in the US seems more akin to them being self-employed contractors. The restaurant pays them for what they do for the restaurant but you also need to directly pay them for what they do for you. Seems weird to those of us who come from places where such staff are actually proper employees but lets face it, if the staff are going to be paid proper wages then the food is going to cost more so the net effect to your pocket is the same. However I presume the employers don't want to do this as they would have more responsibility in other ways for their staff, and they don't want that and there is sadly nothing in the law to make them do it.
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
This thread's certainly an interesting insight into the entirely different social conventions around eating out across SoF.
In the UK (and AFAICT Australia and New Zealand) there is the expectation that wait staff will be properly (if not generously) waged. The tip is an expression of thanks for something over and above a minimum level of service - or an expression of generosity or joie de vivre or whatever.
In the US (and Canada?) and possibly elsewhere, the restaurant just pays enough to the wait staff for them to be there, a kind of retainer as it were. Then it's up to the customer buying the meal to make sure they are paid a living wage; and there is a standard expectation of the size of the tip (varying form 10-20% depending on the quality of service).
Have I got it right?
{X-posted with Lucia]
[ 01. February 2013, 09:32: Message edited by: BroJames ]
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
'Everyone else knows' = everyone who grew up with the same social conventions. Not tourists. I point this out partly because Australians have a reputation as exceptionally bad tippers? You know why? Because no-one taught us growing up that it was necessary.
Also, food might cost what it says on the menu, but I certainly remember buying other things in the USA and being astounded that there was additional VAT to pay at the till. In this country, such a practice would be illegal.
Yeah, but we're clapped out pinko dolphin shaggin' commie poofters. We don't even carry guns into a restaurant, and have no plans or fallback second amendments (because we the fuck got it right in the first place) to overthrow governments with assault weapons. We hold elections which is just so lefty-democratic (like George Dubya, who imposed that kind of nasty nonsense on Iraq, though even that was because he couldn't spell Iran) , and we pay staff, which is so communist, and .. what can I say ... our Prime Minster is a Sinner™ I tell you ...
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Having established the different tipping conventions in the United States / Canada and the rest of the Anglosphere, have any studies been done to compare the cost of dining out? Does a meal for two at a modest restaurant (with generous tips) in the United States work out at roughly equal to a similar meal (with a 10% tip) in the United Kingdom?
[ 01. February 2013, 11:29: Message edited by: Anglican't ]
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
The tipping situation in Canada is IME indentical to that in the US. On occasion I have read about waitstaff designating days on which they donate their tips to particular charities- a not inconsiderable sacrifice that this thread makes me appreciate all the more. And I believe that tips are required to be declared for taxation, though I'm sure there's some "slippage".
In any case, 20% is my standard tip (more if service is exceptional), particularly since servers are often required to share their tips with other restaurant staff.
I'm with comet - if it weren't for the tips, nobody'd want the job 'cause restaurant patrons frequently exhibit behaviour they'd never tolerate in their own homes.
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Having established the different tipping conventions in the United States / Canada and the rest of the Anglosphere, have any studies been done to compare the cost of dining out? Does a meal for two at a modest restaurant (with generous tips) in the United States work out at roughly equal to a similar meal (with a 10% tip) in the United Kingdom?
To do that sort of comparative analysis you would need to incorporate other factors as well: such as the amount of government tax that is imposed (VAT in the UK is 20%; the same sort of tax here in Aus. is only 10%; I don't know what federal/state taxes are levided in the US. Also, one would have to take into consideration the 'compulsary' service levies mentioned in the OP and elsewhere, as aginast the 'tipping' and at what level.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
I see no prophet takes Mercans to task for paying low wages to waitstaff. Like Canadians don't as well?
$10/hour is not good, but it's better than what they're quoting. That's the minimum wage, give or take some ¢. This said, the economy is growing, it's on fire with the oil boom here and there is difficulty retaining employees, such that Tim Hortons is paying $15/hour to start.
I suspect Pete, that you and I, from what I've seen from you previously, would tend to agree that economic policies that cut corp taxes with the notion that this would lead to more jobs and increased "prosperity", has led instead to increased bonuses for executives and continued poor wages. This is Hell however, and we are entitled to point fingers at sinners worse than ourselves. But we Canadians should burn too, and we might welcome it, particularly given the rather cold weather these past weeks.
Indeed, tipping occurs in Canada, but Americans seem to tip everyone. Not just waiters/waitresses (who get 10% rounded to the nearest dollar, but nil if service is poor, and only in real restaurants, i.e., not fast food and not resembling fast food). Americans tip for hair cuts, taxi rides, delivery people. It's just not done on the western Canadian prairies, even if there are those who are progressively adopting customs from the Excited States, like those living in that most American wannabe city of Tronna, which includes all of southern Ontario in western perception.
So, I'll admit to engaging in assholery in some of my posts. Rather enjoying it.
[edited the duplication out - orfeo]
[ 01. February 2013, 12:47: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
no prophet, I took the liberty of editing out the duplicate post - and hence your notice about the duplicate.
orfeo
Hellhost
PS See how nice and fluffy I can be? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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The Riv
Shipmate
# 3553
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
quote:
Okay, Shipmates, is this a legitimate member of the clergy to you, or a 'pastor?'
What, precisely, do you mean?
I don't have any research to corroborate this, but since it's Hell and I don't have to, I'll opine that the Church is so micro-fractioned any more, that where two or three are gathered in the Lord's name, it's not long before one is dubbed 'pastor,' usually by themself. One can be a self-styled 'Bishop,' 'Deacon,' or 'Priestess,' for that matter just by claiming so. Clerical titles (and beyond) got hijacked a l-o-n-g time ago, at least here in the "tippy" USA, and while it's not out of my belief system to acknowledge that God still speaks to and through some of us, this woman makes me skeptical.
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"I don't know whether I like it, but it's what I meant." Ralph Vaughan Williams
"Riv, you've done a much better job communicating your passion than your point. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about." Tom Clune
Posts: 2749 | From: Too far South, USA. I really want to move. | Registered: Nov 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
This tipping crap has me thinking. With the declining number of parishioners and financial squeeze I hear many places, probably we should tip priests and ministers. Poor sods with no money. Y'know, slip them a little something for a good sermon and maybe even a little extra if we felt moved by the spirit. It'd be pretty easy, just a little jar by the door or into the hand while shaking on the way out. If you have a large family, the greeters and ushers will just give you a Holy Tip Total or Godly Gratuity and won't let you leave until you pay out.
If your church uses those weekly envelopes, it'd be easy to add a tip amount line. Part of stewardship would be to target the low tippers and tell them how rude they are.
Problem solved! The clergy would have no further excuse for not tipping waiters.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
This tipping crap has me thinking. With the declining number of parishioners and financial squeeze I hear many places, probably we should tip priests and ministers. Poor sods with no money. Y'know, slip them a little something for a good sermon and maybe even a little extra if we felt moved by the spirit. It'd be pretty easy, just a little jar by the door or into the hand while shaking on the way out. If you have a large family, the greeters and ushers will just give you a Holy Tip Total or Godly Gratuity and won't let you leave until you pay out.
If your church uses those weekly envelopes, it'd be easy to add a tip amount line. Part of stewardship would be to target the low tippers and tell them how rude they are.
Problem solved! The clergy would have no further excuse for not tipping waiters.
And there was me thinking that the fees for the occassional offices were the in-lieu of tips thing for clergy.
Posts: 722 | From: Sneaking across Welsh hill and dale with a thurible in hand | Registered: Dec 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
And there was me thinking that the fees for the occassional offices were the in-lieu of tips thing for clergy.
You would continue to get that plus a tip. If you really did it well, you might get, say 22%. If not so well, maybe get stiffed. If average, I'll leave you 10%.
Lots of great possibilities. In your local deanery meetings, you can debate whether the bishop gets a cut of the tip pool.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Anyone else think signing the check with the title "Pastor" was just her way of being a douchebag in Jesus' name?
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
[QUOTE]You've basically got a bunch of slaves who have to rely on the kindness of their masters rather than actually being entitled to wages.
I thought slavery had been abolished in the USA or are my textbooks incorrect?
Absolutely incorrect. We just hide it under the rug a lot better.
Of course, there's slaves in Australia, Europe, England, Asia... Some facts on human trafficking.
[ 01. February 2013, 15:08: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
quote:
If you have a large family, the greeters and ushers will just give you a Holy Tip Total or Godly Gratuity and won't let you leave until you pay out.
I came home to my trailer park from the bi-weekly local gun show this morning with several bags of Burger King for the missus, and logged on to find that you are still twatting off about this whole tipping/gratuity thing. It must bother you terribly that social convention differs in other countries. The thought that someone else does something differently than you must really get your toque in a bunch.
Or you're just ignorant. That's where my money is (when it isn't buying assault weapons, that is).
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
It must bother you terribly that social convention differs in other countries.
Not half as much as it seems to bother you...
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Lots of great possibilities. In your local deanery meetings, you can debate whether the bishop gets a cut of the tip pool.
He probably shouldn't, but I imagine they would expect... no, sorry... demand a share.
We have a very early Easter Vestry, though it's at the start of Lent (don't ask!) I might think about bringing this up...
Posts: 722 | From: Sneaking across Welsh hill and dale with a thurible in hand | Registered: Dec 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Automagically increasing costs to individuals because they happen to show up in group beyond a particular number.
I understand this might be asking a bit too much, but a tiny bit of reasoning and logic reveals why.
-Serving a large group can be a magnitude more difficult than serving the same number at separate tables.
-People are bastards and some will assume others will cover their paucity or, owing to the size of the group, their individual lack of tip will not be traced to them.
quote:
Originally posted by The Riv:
I'll opine that the Church is so micro-fractioned any more, that where two or three are gathered in the Lord's name, it's not long before one is dubbed 'pastor,' usually by themself. One can be a self-styled 'Bishop,' 'Deacon,' or 'Priestess,' for that matter just by claiming so.
And this is different from how all "established" churches began how?
In regards to the Pastor, she claims her comment was a lapse in judgement. So what is her method of repentance? To complain to the establishment and cause further trouble. Bitch.
Personal behaviour: if I expect anyone to serve me, to do something for me that I am damn well capable of doing myself; I will attempt to ensure they are compensated. In some countries this means their wage, in others my tip. Not difficult to ascertain the local customs. There exist a plethora of guides, books and websites. Attempting to understand the cultures to which you are traveling should be the fucking default.
As to all the cross-cultural sniping, there exists a multitude of sins in all our cultures. No, this is not a can we get along, this is a quit whinging ya bastards!
A "servant of God" used her credentials to display the exact opposite of what those credentials are supposed to represent. And made another suffer for her own (the pastor's) sins.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
So, I'll admit to engaging in assholery in some of my posts.
That's what it is! I knew there was something about them, but couldn't quite puzzle it out.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Meg the Red:
And I believe that tips are required to be declared for taxation, though I'm sure there's some "slippage".
I'm expected to declare all my tips for taxation. in reality I declare about 15% of over all sales, where my average tip income is closer to 20%.
and then there's days like yesterday where I work an 8 hour shift and walk home with ten bucks. some days, it sucks. you just never know. but if I claim less than my 15%, I'm setting myself up for an IRS audit, where I'll be forced to prove the unprovable and then be asked to pay taxes on an "average" tip rate. even if people chose not to tip, I have to claim a tip. so there are times I'm paying taxes on money that doesn't exist. as far as I'm concerned, it makes up for my under-declarations at other times.
yesterday, I claimed $45 in tips for tax purposes, though I only made $10. it's a tough time of year, people here are broke. I cut them a lot of slack.
so if you're considering not tipping as making a statement of how you disapprove of our system, remember who you're harming. and think carefully about who is hearing your statement. the government will not hear and does not care.
and yes, when the right cause comes up, and/or when we're asked, staff will have times where all tips are given to a charity in need. this is voluntary and we're happy to do it.
I will still have to declare those tips and pay the tax, and I don't get credit for the donation because the money never went through my hand.
FYI here, tips are taxed at the exact same rate as wage income.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
It would be unfair not to tip according to the custom of the country you're visiting. My limited experience of service in the USA is that the waiters usually work very hard to gain their 'share' of the profit on a meal, and are understandably keen on making their customers' dining experience pleasant. If that's how it works out it ought to be a win-win situation.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
So, I'll admit to engaging in assholery in some of my posts.
That's what it is! I knew there was something about them, but couldn't quite puzzle it out.
Understood. Like I said previously, "tipping crap". Direct physical effort might be more efficient though than "puzzling it out".
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
Why do waiters get tips but not the chef? After all, he's the one who's actually done the work. All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Why do waiters get tips but not the chef? After all, he's the one who's actually done the work. All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Most places the servers have to share tips with the other staff.
A interesting blog on this is located at the fantastic site Waiter Rant.
[ 01. February 2013, 19:35: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Why do waiters get tips but not the chef? After all, he's the one who's actually done the work. All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Chefs don't get tips because they usually get a living wage--sometimes (if they are really good) a quite fantastic salary. They also (usually) have benefits.
Of course, some of them own the restaurants in which they work as well. Lest one get the idea that waiting tables is a sentence to long term poverty, I'll point out that in some of the finer dining establishments it is quite possible for a waiter to make enough to pay for their own benefits and still have more left over than a teacher with a graduate degree would have. That requires a large city though--that's not the way it's going to be in a small town. It's also not the way it's going to be at the bottom of the "food chain"--which is what Applebee's is.
The thing is, almost everyone in the US has either worked in food service or had a close friend who worked in food service at some time in their life (quite often in college). There was a time I was grateful to have the job. If you're not in a large rich city, though, it's a crap way to have to make a living. That's one reason why it is often a "moonlight" job.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
I've never been waitstaff. However, merely from observation, I know this is bollocks.
The job is pure customer service.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spike:
All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Remind me not to eat in the sort of restaurants you evidently frequent.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Not true. Sometimes they sneeze on it, too.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
And there was me thinking that the fees for the occassional offices were the in-lieu of tips thing for clergy.
What fees for occasional offices? In the C of E they go straight to the diocese.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
In regards to the Pastor, she claims her comment was a lapse in judgement. So what is her method of repentance? To complain to the establishment and cause further trouble. Bitch.
Yes, I was 'impressed' by that as well.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by Meg the Red:
And I believe that tips are required to be declared for taxation, though I'm sure there's some "slippage".
I'm expected to declare all my tips for taxation. in reality I declare about 15% of over all sales, where my average tip income is closer to 20%.
and then there's days like yesterday where I work an 8 hour shift and walk home with ten bucks. some days, it sucks. you just never know. but if I claim less than my 15%, I'm setting myself up for an IRS audit, where I'll be forced to prove the unprovable and then be asked to pay taxes on an "average" tip rate. even if people chose not to tip, I have to claim a tip. so there are times I'm paying taxes on money that doesn't exist. as far as I'm concerned, it makes up for my under-declarations at other times.
yesterday, I claimed $45 in tips for tax purposes, though I only made $10. it's a tough time of year, people here are broke. I cut them a lot of slack.
so if you're considering not tipping as making a statement of how you disapprove of our system, remember who you're harming. and think carefully about who is hearing your statement. the government will not hear and does not care.
and yes, when the right cause comes up, and/or when we're asked, staff will have times where all tips are given to a charity in need. this is voluntary and we're happy to do it.
I will still have to declare those tips and pay the tax, and I don't get credit for the donation because the money never went through my hand.
FYI here, tips are taxed at the exact same rate as wage income.
About every second sentence of this post made me think the system is even more fucked up than I realised. Paying tax on income you didn't get because it's easier than telling the truth and going through the hoops? That is just nuts. Not you individually, the fact that the situation arises.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
<in reply to comet> Paying tax on income you didn't get because it's easier than telling the truth and going through the hoops? That is just nuts. Not you individually, the fact that the situation arises.
It's exactly the reverse of the situation that large corporations and the super-rich are in, namely not paying tax on income they do get, because the taxman makes it easy.
When you look at it like that, the impulsiveness of a waitress and a pastor looks trivial compared to that of Applebees for sacking an employee.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Yes, Applebees are the bigger bastards in this. The customer is not always correct.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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nomadicgrl
Shipmate
# 7623
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Why do waiters get tips but not the chef? After all, he's the one who's actually done the work. All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Chefs don't get tips because they usually get a living wage--sometimes (if they are really good) a quite fantastic salary. They also (usually) have benefits.
Of course, some of them own the restaurants in which they work as well. Lest one get the idea that waiting tables is a sentence to long term poverty, I'll point out that in some of the finer dining establishments it is quite possible for a waiter to make enough to pay for their own benefits and still have more left over than a teacher with a graduate degree would have. That requires a large city though--that's not the way it's going to be in a small town. It's also not the way it's going to be at the bottom of the "food chain"--which is what Applebee's is.
The thing is, almost everyone in the US has either worked in food service or had a close friend who worked in food service at some time in their life (quite often in college). There was a time I was grateful to have the job. If you're not in a large rich city, though, it's a crap way to have to make a living. That's one reason why it is often a "moonlight" job.
Posts: 437 | From: Living in the land of Anne (with an e) | Registered: Jun 2004
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nomadicgrl
Shipmate
# 7623
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Posted
Sorry for screw up of reply there.
Was just going to say that in some family restaurants most of the cooks don't make above minimum wage (the head cook made a bit more, but not that much). I know that was the case when I worked in a family restaurant similar to Applebee's. In my province, at the time - it may have changed since, wait staff made the same minimum wage as anyone else. So most kitchen workers wanted to move to front staff for the increase in pay via tips.
That being said, I know that in many provinces and in the USA minimum is different for wait staff and even if not, it's bloody hard to make ends meet on a minimum wage. So even if it's the system that is screwed up and it SHOULD be the establishment that pays a living wage, I wouldn't feel right letting someone work for such a pittance to serve me, and if I can't afford to tip I don't eat out.
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The care of another,even material, bodily care is spiritual in essence. Bread for myself is a material question; bread for my neighbor is a spiritual one.- Jacques Maritain
Posts: 437 | From: Living in the land of Anne (with an e) | Registered: Jun 2004
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