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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Pastor "stiffs" the help! Or, Americans are weird about tips.
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Not true. Sometimes they sneeze on it, too.
Especially over the food of those who think all they do is carry it to the table ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) .
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
And there was me thinking that the fees for the occassional offices were the in-lieu of tips thing for clergy.
What fees for occasional offices? In the C of E they go straight to the diocese.
After a little look, so they do!
It was one of the suggestions in the Harries Report in the CinW that the Occassional Office fees be paid to the PCC instead of the Incumbent but that has been widely resisted so I don't know at the minute. Have to wait and see whether the working group on all of this is going to go forwards with the proposals from the report...
Posts: 722 | From: Sneaking across Welsh hill and dale with a thurible in hand | Registered: Dec 2012
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Not true. Sometimes they sneeze on it, too.
Especially over the food of those who think all they do is carry it to the table .
Surely not ..
...sometimes they spit in it instead
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
On reflection, I've realised that one of the most distasteful things about the pastor's written remark is treating giving God money as equivalent.
You give God 10 per cent? How, exactly? By depositing it in His bank account?
And it's also false equivalence to say 10% without identifying 10% of what. If it's 10% of your income, then it's okay, honey, "God" is still coming out ahead of the waitress who gets 18% of the cost of one meal out. Unless your income is really small.
So yeah, not only was the remark nasty, it's only purpose was to set up a false comparison to suggest that getting more than God was wrong. And you know, actually getting more than God might well be wrong, or at least questionable, but that wasn't in fact what was being asked for. Which only makes our Pastor look worse for employing a cheap rhetorical flourish.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
On reflection, I've realised that one of the most distasteful things about the pastor's written remark is treating giving God money as equivalent.
You give God 10 per cent? How, exactly? By depositing it in His bank account?
And it's also false equivalence to say 10% without identifying 10% of what. If it's 10% of your income, then it's okay, honey, "God" is still coming out ahead of the waitress who gets 18% of the cost of one meal out. Unless your income is really small.
So yeah, not only was the remark nasty, it's only purpose was to set up a false comparison to suggest that getting more than God was wrong. And you know, actually getting more than God might well be wrong, or at least questionable, but that wasn't in fact what was being asked for. Which only makes our Pastor look worse for employing a cheap rhetorical flourish.
Are you suggesting pastors might use some kind of cheap rhetoric? Plenty of 'em major in it and I don't want to get driven into the 10% debate, because that belongs on the cheap burger board (IMHO).
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re signing "pastor" instead of a proper title:
Actually, in some Christian circles, that is a proper title.
The pastor, if officially ordained, might technically be a reverend. But some people balk at the title, saying only God is to be revered. Plus "Pastor" sounds more personable. You can use it the same way someone might address a priest as "Father".
This is true. In many African American churches, the term "pastor" denotes seniority and respect.
I recall one pastor telling about going into a difficult church and how hard a time he had relating to people who were suspicious of anyone new. They respectfully called him, "Rev," (in america it's used as an honorific title, even though it's not technically proper) until he somehow cracked the elderly curmudgeon, who began to call him, "Pastor." That was the indication that he was accepted as their spiritual leader.
Still a pretty low-down thing to do. One ought not throw their title around. Period.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
In regards to the Pastor, she claims her comment was a lapse in judgement. So what is her method of repentance? To complain to the establishment and cause further trouble. Bitch.
Yes, I was 'impressed' by that as well.
Exactly. How about, "I'm so sorry for my behavior. I wrote that impulsively because I do disagree with automatic gratuities, but I shouldn't have responded in that way." And then contacting the owner privately, acknowledging what she said is wrong, but expressing her displeasure with it having been made public - not getting up a lawsuit blaming Applebee's for ruining her ministry - she did that on her own!
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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anne
Shipmate
# 73
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
And there was me thinking that the fees for the occassional offices were the in-lieu of tips thing for clergy.
What fees for occasional offices? In the C of E they go straight to the diocese.
After a little look, so they do!
It was one of the suggestions in the Harries Report in the CinW that the Occassional Office fees be paid to the PCC instead of the Incumbent but that has been widely resisted so I don't know at the minute. Have to wait and see whether the working group on all of this is going to go forwards with the proposals from the report...
DBF and PCC it is! As the 2013 fees list shows, fees are now divided between the portion for the Diocesan Board of Finance and the portion retained by the PCC. A new system this year, and judging by a discussion at clergy chapter this week, there are still some gremlins to deal with - but no 'incumbent's fees' or equivalent. Which is as it should be, I think.
anne
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‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale
Posts: 338 | From: Devon | Registered: May 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Even better would be a petition to get the poor staffer her job back.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Even better would be a petition to get the poor staffer her job back.
I read Facebook. Apparently you don't.
The restaurant chain in question has been scrambling to cover its ass in a fairly large shitstorm of negative opinion.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
The restaurant chain in question has been scrambling to cover its ass in a fairly large shitstorm of negative opinion.
And failing spectacularly.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
All the waiters do is carry it to the table.
Not true. Sometimes they sneeze on it, too.
Especially over the food of those who think all they do is carry it to the table .
Penny from "Big Bang Theory", is that you? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re firing the waitress:
There was a discussion on NPR today. (Don't remember which show.) One caller works in Human Resources, in a different industry.
He said that it was right to fire her, since she included identifiable info (the signature) from the receipt; without that, he said he wouldn't have fired her.
He also said that he warns his kids and everyone he knows to stay off Facebook, because it's too easy for something to go wrong and come back to bite you.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
He said that it was right to fire her, since she included identifiable info (the signature) from the receipt; without that, he said he wouldn't have fired her.
"One strike and you're out," then? No warning, no reprimand, just fire on the spot? Saying that it was right to reprimand her, or that what she did was wrong, does NOT mean it was right to fire her. (not arguing with you personally, GK)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re firing the waitress:
There was a discussion on NPR today. (Don't remember which show.) One caller works in Human Resources, in a different industry.
He said that it was right to fire her, since she included identifiable info (the signature) from the receipt; without that, he said he wouldn't have fired her.
In Applebee's case, they themselves posted a receipt with a name prior to the waitress having done so. Of course, that one contained a positive note.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
MT--
I think the HR guy's position was that the waitress endangered the pastor's security and identity by putting the signature on the Net. Anyone could copy and paste it, and use it for identity theft.
As I said, he wasn't against her posting the receipt (or, at least, wouldn't have fired her for it)--it was just the revealing of personal info. If there were to be identity theft, I suspect the restaurant could be in deep doo-doo.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
That doesn't answer what I said, though. I can agree that she did something wrong without agreeing that the proper course of action was to fire her. Also, what lilBuddha said.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
The restaurant chain in question has been scrambling to cover its ass in a fairly large shitstorm of negative opinion.
And failing spectacularly.
Oh WOW. A fascinating read.
I think the most bizarre bit of that is telling people again and again that the person who was fired wasn't the person who served the table. When a heck of a lot of people already know that. Thinking that this would somehow change people's opinion about the incident is just a little loopy.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re firing the waitress:
There was a discussion on NPR today. (Don't remember which show.) One caller works in Human Resources, in a different industry.
He said that it was right to fire her, since she included identifiable info (the signature) from the receipt; without that, he said he wouldn't have fired her.
In Applebee's case, they themselves posted a receipt with a name prior to the waitress having done so. Of course, that one contained a positive note.
Yep. Nothing will kill you faster in this situation than proof of your inconsistency. You can get away with a nasty, mean decision if people can see it fits within the rules. But when you're making a nasty, mean and inconsistent decision, people just aren't going to buy it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
The restaurant chain in question has been scrambling to cover its ass in a fairly large shitstorm of negative opinion.
And failing spectacularly.
Oh WOW. A fascinating read.
I think the most bizarre bit of that is telling people again and again that the person who was fired wasn't the person who served the table. When a heck of a lot of people already know that. Thinking that this would somehow change people's opinion about the incident is just a little loopy.
Completely insane. To take off on something Mamacita said on Facebook, it's like watching a bunch of thirteen year old girls engage in status update wars.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re firing the waitress:
There was a discussion on NPR today. (Don't remember which show.) One caller works in Human Resources, in a different industry.
He said that it was right to fire her, since she included identifiable info (the signature) from the receipt; without that, he said he wouldn't have fired her.
In Applebee's case, they themselves posted a receipt with a name prior to the waitress having done so. Of course, that one contained a positive note.
Yep. Nothing will kill you faster in this situation than proof of your inconsistency. You can get away with a nasty, mean decision if people can see it fits within the rules. But when you're making a nasty, mean and inconsistent decision, people just aren't going to buy it.
It's one thing for head office to post a nice happy feedback note (quite possibly with permission even) and a completely different thing for a waitress to post one on her own initiative for the purpose of embarrassing a customer.
I don't think it's deserving of sacking, but I can see why they can afford to when there's such an oversupply of unskilled labour (including skilled labour who are unemployed) in the US and management needs to keep the pecking order intact. A head chef at an independently owned high-end specialty restaurant probably would have gotten away with a slap on the wrist because they would be harder to replace than a waiter at a diner only one step above McD's.
[ 05. February 2013, 08:00: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
Before I get too outraged about this, can somebody explain where that 18% added service charge would usually go? To the wait staff? If so, then my understanding from American friends is that 15-20% is the usual tipping rate, right? So not leaving anything extra would be OK (though you could add more if it had been really good service).
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Applebees could have dealt with this by throwing the particular restaurant under the bus. They did mention it was a franchisee. That means the actual owner of the restaurant had to follow rules about appearance, costs, menu, etc., but is not otherwise controlled by Applebees.
It really doesn't matter to me though. I have never seen Applebees serve anything other than dreck and will not go back to one short of having a loaded gun pointed at me.
The 18% theoretically goes to the wait staff.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
How about do the 'right thing' and legislate wages that people can live on?
Indeed. I get tired of being over a barrel to pay the restaurant owner's employees for him. We do pay at least 15% but it's always seemed archaic to me.
My first job was as a waitress (45 cents an hour) and no tips because I was new and the older waitresses sent me to the tables where they knew the customers didn't tip. For the rest of my life I worked in other customer service jobs like bank teller, made minimum wage but of course never got tips. Only a few of the customer service jobs have the expectation of tips figured in, why certain jobs like food service do, I don't really know.
I do know the low wage can be misleading in many cases. The fast food places like MacDonalds usually do pay minimum wage because tips aren't expected there -- yet I've never know a waitress who would rather quit her nice restaurant job to work fast food. My husband drove a cab in this town for years and he drove waitresses home every evening. They would sit in the back and count the hundreds of dollars they had made that day. Not one of them ever left him a tip.
I still don't envy them. I would rather have my guaranteed low income than depend on the kindness of strangers. The whole idea of tipping is gross to me. I feel patronizing when I leave a tip and would much rather pay twice as much for the food and know the wait staff had decent pay and benefits from their employer.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I've always checked on local tipping practice-- one size does not fit all. In Chile, I was told that the maid gets folding money-- even the same or a larger amount of coins would be insulting. In Spain, I've had tips returned to me. A compensation specialist friend in Toronto leaves 10-15% in Canada, but 15-20% in the US-- when asked why, she said that very few US restaurants provided health insurance and, while she felt that this was irresponsible on the employer's part (as well as foolish, as lack of benefits increases turnover and seriously increases staffing and training costs), she could not honestly penalize the employee.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I must remember that Add Reply does not equal a paragraph break. A few waiting friends have told me of the practice of leaving small cards with a text of scripture instead of a tip. I do not know if this practice has increased reverence for the Bible among the waiting classes, or if there have been many spontaneous conversions on this account. One Toronto friend told me that her best tips were from a small group of priests who came for lunch after their AA meeting.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
t's one thing for head office to post a nice happy feedback note (quite possibly with permission even) and a completely different thing for a waitress to post one on her own initiative for the purpose of embarrassing a customer.
Intent is irrelevant, only permission would be a factor.
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
I must remember that Add Reply does not equal a paragraph break. A few waiting friends have told me of the practice of leaving small cards with a text of scripture instead of a tip. I do not know if this practice has increased reverence for the Bible among the waiting classes, or if there have been many spontaneous conversions on this account.
Yeah, I shall hazard a guess and say the instead part will gain no good will.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I tip 20%. It's part of the cost of the meal or drink, and if I can't afford that, I can't afford to go out.
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:And if you order pizza to be delivered to your home, the pizza delivery person has to pay his own car expenses. Keep that in mind when you're deciding how much to tip!
My last job (1999) was part time, lunch relief, teller in a Georgia bank. I made five dollars per hour. I had to have at least five nice business suits or dresses to start the job. My first week there the boss told us that we were to have "casual Fridays," when we would wear Atlanta Braves shirts and jeans. It cost me my first week's pay.
My point is that every job has hidden costs, whether it's the Pizza driver's car expenses or the supermarket worker's back brace.
Why is it that when I was a waitress the expected tip percentage was 10% and now Ruth is paying 20%? It can't be inflation because the rising cost of the meal itself should have taken care of that.
Basing your tip on what you perceive to be the person's need is feeding into the Republican view that we don't need welfare because charities and churches should take care of the needy. No person's livelihood should be dependent upon the whim of random customers. Comet says her customers are tipping less because "times are hard," that's horrible and illogical and oh so typical of human nature.
If our country worked harder toward equality-- things like minimum wage and free health care and reasonable university costs for everyone-- with less distraction toward certain groups that seem to tug at the heart strings then surely we would all be better off.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
If our country worked harder toward equality-- things like minimum wage and free health care and reasonable university costs for everyone
Do that first, then complain about tipping.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
It's one thing for head office to post a nice happy feedback note (quite possibly with permission even) and a completely different thing for a waitress to post one on her own initiative for the purpose of embarrassing a customer.
If the reason given for sacking her was that she violated customer privacy, then no, it's not two different things. It's the same thing. They violated a customer's privacy. They don't then get to turn around and use that as a reason to come down heavy on someone else without being decried as hypocritical and heartless. It just don't work.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
I'm violating my own rule here about posting with having read the thread fully, but time is a little short so here goes, with full apologies if it's already been answered upthread.
Is it not the case that people in the US who do tip are actually propping up an unjust system, where some people are treated unequally because of the job they do by both the Government and by employers.
What would be the result if people stopped tipping. I mean everywhere. No tipping in any restaurant or bar. A national campaign organised by some of the big unions with Hollywood endorsee's and so on.
Yes I will be the first to admit that the immediate effect would be very hard on the waiting staff, but beyond that wouldn't it result in something better and more just?
[ 05. February 2013, 14:20: Message edited by: deano ]
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Is it not the case that people in the US who do tip are actually propping up an unjust system, where some people are treated unequally because of the job they do by both the Government and by employers.
That's the way I see it but there will always be people who have a knee jerk response to those who have been stereotyped as "poor," and will bend over backward to help them while ignoring others who are equally hard up but don't fit the image. Is that impulse kindly meant? Yes, but like you, I don't think it's ultimately very helpful.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
What would be the result if people stopped tipping. I mean everywhere. No tipping in any restaurant or bar. A national campaign organised by some of the big unions with Hollywood endorsee's and so on.
An awful lot of people would be cast out of their homes and onto the street, and an awful lot of restaurants would close. This would have a ripple effect on the economy which would not be salutary, and would contribute to potential recession, which would put more people out of work.
It's a simplistic, short-sighted, unworkable, and very very very cruel idea.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
What would be the result if people stopped tipping. I mean everywhere. No tipping in any restaurant or bar. A national campaign organised by some of the big unions with Hollywood endorsee's and so on.
An awful lot of people would be cast out of their homes and onto the street, and an awful lot of restaurants would close. This would have a ripple effect on the economy which would not be salutary, and would contribute to potential recession, which would put more people out of work.
It's a simplistic, short-sighted, unworkable, and very very very cruel idea.
It wouldn't lead to an increase in meal prices to compensate and better wages provided for by those higher prices for the waiting staff then?
Would restaurant owners definitely choose to close down their businesses rather than changing their system?
And will customers stop buying those meals because they are being asked to pay... the same as they were before but knowing that the money is going to the higher wages?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It wouldn't lead to an increase in meal prices to compensate and better wages provided for by those higher prices for the waiting staff then?
You are absolutely ADORABLE that you think they give a shit about anything but the almighty dollar in their pocket.
[ 05. February 2013, 15:57: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
deano, I think you'll have to face up to the fact that almost any American knows more about American labour relations than almost any Brit.
(and yes, we've all heard that you sell fancy software to Americans, but they are Americans with money not Americans with jobs paying minimum wage or below.)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... Americans with jobs paying minimum wage or below.)
It's the paying below minimum wage which has me baffled. The employees of similar eateries here get $10/hour, with an online seach suggesting Applebee employees get less than $4.50. Not sure how "less than minimum" ever developed. Very odd.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... Americans with jobs paying minimum wage or below.)
It's the paying below minimum wage which has me baffled. The employees of similar eateries here get $10/hour, with an online seach suggesting Applebee employees get less than $4.50. Not sure how "less than minimum" ever developed. Very odd.
We'll have to leave explaining that to Americans, won't we?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It wouldn't lead to an increase in meal prices to compensate and better wages provided for by those higher prices for the waiting staff then?
You are absolutely ADORABLE that you think they give a shit about anything but the almighty dollar in their pocket.
Which is exactly why all employees, everywhere, in whatever business or trade or industry, should be in a union. And be prepared to strike in soilidarity with other workers. And if the local laws where you make that illegal, be prepared to break the unjust anti-union laws. If we were all in it together they could not possibly beat us.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It wouldn't lead to an increase in meal prices to compensate and better wages provided for by those higher prices for the waiting staff then?
You are absolutely ADORABLE that you think they give a shit about anything but the almighty dollar in their pocket.
Which is exactly why all employees, everywhere, in whatever business or trade or industry, should be in a union. And be prepared to strike in soilidarity with other workers. And if the local laws where you make that illegal, be prepared to break the unjust anti-union laws. If we were all in it together they could not possibly beat us.
Ken you are just the best!!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... Americans with jobs paying minimum wage or below.)
It's the paying below minimum wage which has me baffled. The employees of similar eateries here get $10/hour, with an online seach suggesting Applebee employees get less than $4.50. Not sure how "less than minimum" ever developed. Very odd.
We'll have to leave explaining that to Americans, won't we?
And here you go. (The Google is an American, yes?)
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Which is exactly why all employees, everywhere, in whatever business or trade or industry, should be in a union. And be prepared to strike in solidarity with other workers. And if the local laws where you make that illegal, be prepared to break the unjust anti-union laws.
Agree.
quote:
If we were all in it together they could not possibly beat us.
Which is why the powers that be will do everything they can to prevent that from happening.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It wouldn't lead to an increase in meal prices to compensate and better wages provided for by those higher prices for the waiting staff then?
You are absolutely ADORABLE that you think they give a shit about anything but the almighty dollar in their pocket.
Which is exactly why all employees, everywhere, in whatever business or trade or industry, should be in a union. And be prepared to strike in soilidarity with other workers. And if the local laws where you make that illegal, be prepared to break the unjust anti-union laws. If we were all in it together they could not possibly beat us.
sounds great!
but for many of us, the daily tip money is how we eat. we can't voluntarily opt out of work or we don't eat. more importantly, our kids don't eat. I'm all for solidarity and standing up for what's right, but first I have to feed my kids. and yes, I'd cross picket lines if it was the only way to feed my kids.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Of course.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
It's one thing for head office to post a nice happy feedback note (quite possibly with permission even) and a completely different thing for a waitress to post one on her own initiative for the purpose of embarrassing a customer.
'Quite possibly' with permission. Aye there's the rub. Because the correct response, if they had customer permission, would be to point that out. Again, that would give them a basis for showing that there was a consistent policy applied.
Because if there wasn't permission, you're just back to a form of "Do As I (head office) Say, Not Do As I Do".
The other part of the problem, though, is that the initial response gave the impression that no-one in Applebee's can post customer information. Ever. In Any Circumstances. It didn't give the impression that it could only be done with permission.
So they have to back-pedal out of that overreach.
EDIT: It appears that someone attempted to do the back-pedal at around 3am, with a reference to a policy requiring written approval from the Vice President of Operations, but they buried this in an awful lot of extraneous detail that people already knew and would have been very irritated to be told again. That key point is buried about 75% through a long-winded Facebook comment, buried amongst 20,000 other Facebook comments. You think that's going to work?
If there is a policy that personal information can be revealed with the approval of specific people, then that could just about work as an explanation. But given the failure to initially say "the policy is that permission is required", Applebee's is going to have to work much, much harder to stop the fallout.
[ 06. February 2013, 00:43: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
In short, Lesson Number One is do not say "We never do X" if the correct situation is "We do X according to the following procedures". Because someone is going to call you on it, and then explaining the procedures, however reasonable they might be, becomes far harder.
Whoever wrote that first, "we never release personal information" response seriously fucked up.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
In short, Lesson Number One is do not say "We never do X" if the correct situation is "We do X according to the following procedures". Because someone is going to call you on it, and then explaining the procedures, however reasonable they might be, becomes far harder.
Whoever wrote that first, "we never release personal information" response seriously fucked up.
I expect that was stated for public consumption. To state the truth, ie, "We never release personal identification" unless a) or b) or c) or ..... r), s) or t) wouldn't convince anyone, least of all Facebookers, but that's closer to the truth.
Applebee's will continue the damage limitation and will happily sacrifice employees and franchisees to that end.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Of course.
Oh Ken, you've let me down. Comet would be a scab, a blackleg surely!
Have some courage man and tell her what she would be if she crossed a picket line under ANY circumstances. Kids have been sacrificed to "the cause" before, why should hers be special?
Come on Ken. Grow a pair man!
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Read all about it! Lefty fails to live down to rightwinger's unflattering caricature!
In other news, Pope - does he lean towards the church of Rome? Bears and woodlands - could there be a scatalogical connection?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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