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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Bombing in Boston
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Also, having just spotted the relevant photo, the caption does NOT say clearly this image was obtained after his capture.
What do you mean 'capture' in this context? It seems there were several stages to this, from being discovered by the boat owner and then surrounded by the police / FBI through to him emerging from the boat and then being handcuffed and led away.
I presume the photograph was taken after he was surrounded by the police, but before the police made physical contact with him and handcuffed him.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Also, having just spotted the relevant photo, the caption does NOT say clearly this image was obtained after his capture.
What do you mean 'capture' in this context? It seems there were several stages to this, from being discovered by the boat owner and then surrounded by the police / FBI through to him emerging from the boat and then being handcuffed and led away.
I presume the photograph was taken after he was surrounded by the police, but before the police made physical contact with him and handcuffed him.
Well exactly. The caption's use of the word 'capture' is another reason that it's not very good at indicating just when it was taken. It's not a question of what I would mean by 'capture', because I didn't write the caption and I wouldn't write it like that. Not if I had any professional pride left after abandoning legislative drafting and deciding to work for the media instead...
If your presumption is correct (and it does seem a reasonable possibility), then a better caption would have referred to him emerging from the boat after he was surrounded. At least one news report suggests that he gave himself up after concluding that further resistance would be futile.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
It does seem to me that the photograph was taken when the suspect was surrounded with no possibility of escape. I suppose some people might see him as being 'captured' at this point.
My (Concise Oxford) dictionary defines 'capture' as: seizing, taking possession of; thing or person seized; take prisoner, seize as prize.
I agree that 'capture' requires some kind of physical seizure which isn't present in the photograph.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
It seems to me that the most likely structure of the caption is that it isn't even attempting to explain when the photo was taken.
First part of caption is answering the question, who is this a blurry photo of? Answer: this is a photo of Dzhokar Tsarnaev.
Second part of caption is answering the question, who is Dzhokar Tsarnaev? Answer: Dzhokar Tsarnaev is the man who was captured after he was found hiding in a boat.
Running these separate pieces of information into a single sentence is a very clumsy structure, but also a quite common one.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
If this caption annoys you, you should start reading photo captions on dailymail.co.uk. I don't know who writes them, but they sometimes directly contradict what's written in the main article.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
"My innocent sons were set up," says mother. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Do you think this sort of view is a cultural thing? Would mothers who've lived in the West for a while say the same? It just surprises me every time when there appears more or less clear evidence of a crime, and we hear family not even considering they might have gone astray. I find this really striking. Is it because family bonds mean much more in their culture?
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
...I should start deliberately reading things that annoy me? Um, no thank you. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Anyway, I didn't raise the caption. Eutychus did because he found the photo confusing. I got involved to explain the major reason it's confusing - because the caption is written in such a way as to be open to more than one interpretation, and the interpretation Eutychus took is probably not the one that was actually meant. That's not Eutychus' fault, it's the fault of poor writing.
The other reason it's confusing is because the photo, while 'dramatic', is of very poor quality and would be rejected out of hand in ordinary circumstances.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
"My innocent sons were set up," says mother.
Do you think this sort of view is a cultural thing? Would mothers who've lived in the West for a while say the same? It just surprises me every time when there appears more or less clear evidence of a crime, and we hear family not even considering they might have gone astray. I find this really striking. Is it because family bonds mean much more in their culture?
I hear Anglo-Celtic parents say the exact same thing.
In one case here in Australia, an Anglo-Celtic aunt even attempted to engineer the removal of guilt from her nephew onto the police when she KNEW her nephew was responsible for someone's death.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I was involved, there, present at a manhunt in broad daylight in the English countryside three years ago. I'd worked out where he was, exactly on the map from previous intel (I was SO impressed with myself), that's where a friend found him, spoke to him. A few nights before he had evaded police on the ground and in the air who had spotlit him again in open country. That was part of the intel. He'd moved on 15 miles by then. I shoulda bin a cop. Or something ... My friend who found him where I said lost him in a moment. The cops poured in from two or three counties, with dogs and a helicopter.
Not a trace. We were there for getting on for an hour. Had everywhere covered. Were systematic, used beaters.
My friend's daughter was there and she was desperate for a pee and stepped in to a gap in a hedgerow. She came out silent and wide eyed in a trice and pointed. She'd seen a trainer. He was attached to it. The determinism of a gap in the hedgerow where many other creatures will have paused and peed is filed away.
He'd evaded police with dogs and a helicopter, sneaky old me, his mother, a farmer but not a woman with a weak bladder.
If a lion was two metres from you in metre high grass, in full daylight, you wouldn't know it. I have watched a deer disappear in front of my eyes in exactly those conditions. Tech is JUNK. There is no substitute for the mark I human eyeball. And patience.
I have evaded hostile pursuers more than once by being very still in both rural and urban situations, once pursued on an open rooftop at night. You CAN hide in plain sight ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Apart from me. You can track people and they don't know it with you in plain sight too. The risk is you'll burst out laughing. Yep, I was very impressed with myself in those days too.
So the lad getting away from a gunfight at night with cops - even SWAT - and not special forces isn't surprising at all.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
"My innocent sons were set up," says mother.
Do you think this sort of view is a cultural thing? Would mothers who've lived in the West for a while say the same? It just surprises me every time when there appears more or less clear evidence of a crime, and we hear family not even considering they might have gone astray. I find this really striking. Is it because family bonds mean much more in their culture?
No, it's a mom thing. I would expect many Western moms would say/do the same. I might if it were one of my kids-- but that would never happen of course, because my kids would never go astray.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Let's hope the suspect is the right man, sometimes people run because they're chased.
I was kind of relieved (as well as kind of concerned) about hearing about the bombs in the car chase for that reason. You might run if chased, (in America) you might even shoot if innocent, but the details given looked premeditated...
quote:
Originally posted by WesleyJ:
"My innocent sons were set up," says mother. [Roll Eyes]
Do you think this sort of view is a cultural thing? Would mothers who've lived in the West for a while say the same?
I'm pretty sure that's what we (and the papers) say when it's in another country. I can think of a few cases (although some of the times we might be saying that because it's true).
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
"My innocent sons were set up," says mother.
Do you think this sort of view is a cultural thing? Would mothers who've lived in the West for a while say the same? It just surprises me every time when there appears more or less clear evidence of a crime, and we hear family not even considering they might have gone astray. I find this really striking. Is it because family bonds mean much more in their culture?
I hear Anglo-Celtic parents say the exact same thing.
In one case here in Australia, an Anglo-Celtic aunt even attempted to engineer the removal of guilt from her nephew onto the police when she KNEW her nephew was responsible for someone's death.
I think you'll find that many non-Anglo-Celts have done that, too. It's a people thing. A kind of natural extension of the guilty person saying they didn't do it. Almost every soap opera has this kind of thing as its plot at least once in a while.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
It's a paranoid thing. A victim culture thing. His poor father said the same. His superb uncle said the opposite. There are people here who believe conspiracy theories, anything but the simple, chaotic, inept, real, inevitable, broken truth.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I think you'll find that many non-Anglo-Celts have done that, too. It's a people thing.
Yes, I know. But given the suggestion that only 'they' did it, my point was to make it clear that 'we' do it too.
Recognising that many Ship mates are not, in fact, Anglo-Celtic, but the question was set up as "oh look, funny people not like us do this", and Shipmates who are not from the dominant culture of the English-speaking world are less prone to "funny people not like us" statements.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Recognising that many Ship mates are not, in fact, Anglo-Celtic, but the question was set up as "oh look, funny people not like us do this", and Shipmates who are not from the dominant culture of the English-speaking world are less prone to "funny people not like us" statements.
Funny why that might be so....
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
It's a paranoid thing. A victim culture thing. His poor father said the same. His superb uncle said the opposite.
Chechnyans are victims. When you have been persecuted, you tend to view the world with a somewhat justified caution.
Truly, though, I think it is a parent thing. Parents, most, do not wish to think their children are capable of such. Also, parents do not inherently know their children. As to the uncle, he does not communicate with the family. The history behind that could have more weight on his statements than knowledge.
We tend to think reasonable the people who agree with us, even barring any evidence. You may look at the outcome and say, "Aha, but he was right!" But was he knowledgeable right or broken clock right?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
"Zubeidat Tsarnaev alleged that her oldest son, Tamerlan, was controlled by the FBI for years"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22229263
In the audio she says the boys called her every day, as part of her proof they could not have done this. And she insists the FBI controlled him. Huh?
But what's missing from the "he's innocent" claim is - fine, but Boston Bomb is in a sense irrelevant, these two guys robbed a 7-11 and intentionally killed a (campus) policeman and hijacked a car, is there any doubt about those incidents? That alone is enough to have gotten one killed and the other life in prison. If I were prosecutor I might even bring just those charges, easily proved.
But as to the Mom, Mom's believe in their kids. They just do. "My kid is a good kid" is heard everywhere, no matter what the kid did - bullying in school, shoplifting, cheating, joyriding a car, murder. Good kids. Bad friends maybe but good kid.
When you totally mess up, two people will be on your side - the hired lawyer, and your Mom.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I think you'll find that many non-Anglo-Celts have done that, too. It's a people thing.
Yes, I know. But given the suggestion that only 'they' did it, my point was to make it clear that 'we' do it too.
Recognising that many Ship mates are not, in fact, Anglo-Celtic, but the question was set up as "oh look, funny people not like us do this", and Shipmates who are not from the dominant culture of the English-speaking world are less prone to "funny people not like us" statements.
Exactly.
Of course, cultural differences do exist. But some things transcend culture. A mom's undying belief in the goodness of her kids (despite all evidence to the contrary) is one of those things.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But what's missing from the "he's innocent" claim is - fine, but Boston Bomb is in a sense irrelevant, these two guys robbed a 7-11 and intentionally killed a (campus) policeman and hijacked a car, is there any doubt about those incidents?
Yes, about one at least - apparently they did not rob the 7-11.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But what's missing from the "he's innocent" claim is - fine, but Boston Bomb is in a sense irrelevant, these two guys robbed a 7-11 and intentionally killed a (campus) policeman and hijacked a car, is there any doubt about those incidents?
Yes, about one at least - apparently they did not rob the 7-11.
Said robbery being the gravest of the charges, the revelations of their innocence in that matter should lead us to cast out the other charges. Not to mention he wasn't read his Miranda rights! (You'd think being shot at would be worse than not being notified of your right to remain silent, but maybe not.)
[I am, of course, joking.]
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Grammatica
Shipmate
# 13248
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
There are people here who believe conspiracy theories, anything but the simple, chaotic, inept, real, inevitable, broken truth.
Martin ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Posts: 1058 | From: where the lemon trees blosson | Registered: Dec 2007
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But what's missing from the "he's innocent" claim is - fine, but Boston Bomb is in a sense irrelevant, these two guys robbed a 7-11 and intentionally killed a (campus) policeman and hijacked a car, is there any doubt about those incidents?
Yes, about one at least - apparently they did not rob the 7-11.
Good catch! I figured that one at least would be on camera, which would be an easy conviction.
I guess all we have is camera placing them at the location where someone killed a cop, threw explosives, one ran over the other, etc. Let the conspiracy theories run wild! "It was somebody else ran over the dead guy, the surviving brother was just caught in the cross fire as he ran to safety." :-)
Actually that is an interesting correction, because it means it wasn't a couple of incredibly arrogant or death wishing guys that they would call attention to themselves by robbing a place when they needed to stay "normal." They mistakenly thought the cop was after them when his presence was just coincidence.
Still, if they were trying to seem normal and innocent, why were they carrying explosives? The mind of the sociopath works differently, I guess.
I wonder what the survivor thinks about the possibility that he killed his brother. Does he know?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But what's missing from the "he's innocent" claim is - fine, but Boston Bomb is in a sense irrelevant, these two guys robbed a 7-11 and intentionally killed a (campus) policeman and hijacked a car, is there any doubt about those incidents?
Other have already picked up that they DIDN'T rob a 7-11. They just happened to be there, by sheer coincidence, when it GOT robbed.
But of course everyone leapt to the assumption that they were the robbers.
And why not? It seems a reasonable assumption. But the point is that it was an assumption, and it illustrates nicely the danger of assumptions and the importance of evidence.
The District Attorney, in the press conference immediately after the arrest, spoke about how for her team this was just the start. There's a lot of work required to get a conviction unless Tsarnaev makes a full confession.
[ 21. April 2013, 00:14: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
PS You might like to erase 'one ran over the other' from your statements as well, as this is also open to doubt. He escaped the shootout on foot. It's quite difficult to run someone over in your getaway car when you're on foot.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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poileplume
Shipmate
# 16438
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Posted
According to the Boston Globe "Dzhokhan Tsarnaev was so desperate to escape he ran over his brother as he lay wounded. He later abandoned the car in Watertown and fled on foot, disappearing from sight"
Posts: 319 | From: Quebec | Registered: May 2011
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Yes, we Mom's believe in our kids, I'm surprised anyone is surprised at this or why it made the news. One reason is we knew them when they were innocent children and that seems like yesterday.
Another thing that might factor in the thinking of this particular mother's mind is that just a few days before the bombing, U.S. TV aired a Ken Burn's documentary about the "Central Park Five." Five teenage boys who were rounded up by the police, charged with a vicious rape, tried, found guilty and sentenced to from 5 to 15 years in prison. They were entirely innocent, no physical evidence at all and witnesses saw them somewhere else at the time of the crime. The cases are similar in that both crimes had lots of publicity and the police were under a huge amount of pressure to find the perpetrators.
I don't think that's the case here but the mother might think so.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Just wanted to point out the mother is in Russia. She isn't seeing American television broadcasts.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Oops sorry, what I read sounded like the mother and sons were together.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
24/7 news values are not the same as the rules of evidence at work in a court. So in a sky-high profile case like this, the police get to do their job, not just in a goldfish bowl but under various telescopes and microscopes.
That the result is confusion over the reported facts is hardly surprising, is it? I hope the unusually close attention does not screw up the prosecution and defence processes. That's certainly happened before.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
I want to extend sympathy to all who've lost friends or family, all the injured, and to all in shock because something evil has intruded into their lives.
But there's a little voice in my mind that says something less publicly-appropriate. And I want to let it have its say, in the hope of getting rid of it.
I lived and worked in London in the 1980s, when bomb alerts were relatively common. The possibility of explosions was part of the culture; everyone knew that the reason there were no litter bins around Victoria Station was because they would provide such a good place for IRA terrorists to conceal bombs. Terrorists financed by Irish-Americans, probably many from Boston.
And I know it's way too much to hope for that any of those who've been hurt in the current evil are those who put some money in the box for the old country 20 or 30 years ago. Boston is a big city.
And it's way too much to hope for that any of the US government and media pronouncing on present-day terrorism should make any sort of mention of the fact that pre-9/11 the US government was cool about private citizens sponsoring terrorism overseas. Repentance ? What would be the point ? Old news.
Too much to hope for an adequate reckoning this side of the grave - that's part of the attraction of religion.
Thanks; feel better for saying that.
Russ
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Hmmm Russ. You remind me of me. A very understated, underwrought me. As I said on the cruelty thread I was so upset and angry on HEARING the bombing on the radio I wanted to track them down and make them stand up while I shot them in the face.
Which ups your ante on wishing that IRA bombing funders of a generation ago had been caught in the Boston bombing. No, a little boy, a young woman and a young Chinese student died. And 170 innocent people like us were mutilated.
Now that we've caught this sick boy, we've got to love him.
Wipe his feet clean with our tears and hair. Reconcile him to those he's grieved. As we grieved him.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Is that correct that the US was 'cool' about collections of money for terrorism? I knew that there were such collections, but didn't know about the coolness. You mean that that they didn't issue warnings and so on?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
Did you feel the same way, Russ, on 9/11? There are a hell of a lot of Irish in New York.
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I do wish, ever so much, that the recent events of my dear city would not become an instance for patronizing sermons. How I do wish it!
[ 21. April 2013, 12:59: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
Did you feel the same way, Russ, on 9/11? There are a hell of a lot of Irish in New York.
I was in Kingston, Ontario, listening on a car radio. The voices of those interviewed - the blankness, the disorientation, the bewilderment - induced intense flashback to Belfast in the early 70s. I could almost feel the grit on my skin. And yes, the thought came to mind that ah weel, they ken now... at the same time as I knew it was vanishingly unlikely that any of those caught up in the events were the same as those who'd given the money to buy the bullets and bombs that made for those interesting times.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
I want to extend sympathy to all who've lost friends or family, all the injured, and to all in shock because something evil has intruded into their lives.
But there's a little voice in my mind that says something less publicly-appropriate. And I want to let it have its say, in the hope of getting rid of it.
I lived and worked in London in the 1980s, when bomb alerts were relatively common. The possibility of explosions was part of the culture; everyone knew that the reason there were no litter bins around Victoria Station was because they would provide such a good place for IRA terrorists to conceal bombs. Terrorists financed by Irish-Americans, probably many from Boston.
And I know it's way too much to hope for that any of those who've been hurt in the current evil are those who put some money in the box for the old country 20 or 30 years ago. Boston is a big city.
And it's way too much to hope for that any of the US government and media pronouncing on present-day terrorism should make any sort of mention of the fact that pre-9/11 the US government was cool about private citizens sponsoring terrorism overseas. Repentance ? What would be the point ? Old news.
Too much to hope for an adequate reckoning this side of the grave - that's part of the attraction of religion.
Thanks; feel better for saying that.
Russ
No, thank you, Russ, for illustrating how someone can start by expressing sympathy for bombing victims and then effortlessly pivot to being OK with the idea of maiming as some kind of karmic punishment.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I do wish, ever so much, that the recent events of my dear city would not become an instance for patronizing sermons. How I do wish it!
As you're discovering your dear city is public property, and when things like this happen to it, it's fair game for anyone and everyone. My dear city - and country - was a permanent instance for all such kinds of abuse, ignorance and misguided philanthropy (see up-thread reference to IRA foreign collections) for nearly 40 years. Hopefully, you won't have to learn how to live with it as 'normal', and the 'Boston Bombings' will just be another tragic but isolated episode of what doesn't usually happen in your part of the world.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I admire your courage Russ. In confessing to the nasty, unChristlike thoughts we all have. Unless we're unreal. Jesus had the same anger, He just NEVER let it go where we let it.
[ 21. April 2013, 13:55: Message edited by: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's quite a common story that some Boston bars used to sell drinks called 'car bomb' and 'kill a brit' - I don't know if it's true.
It shows how people's views change when it comes close to home. I suppose terrorism in Ireland seemed very abstract to many Americans, and to some Irish-Americans, made them feel patriotic.
But then the history of terrorism is quite curious, since the terrorist can easily become the freedom fighter, or the politician.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It's quite a common story that some Boston bars used to sell drinks called 'car bomb' and 'kill a brit' - I don't know if it's true.
I hope it's not. So very sad if it is. As a Northern Irish woman, that's wildly insulting. Imagine going into a bar and saying I'll have a "kill a brit", or "two car bombs please". Utterly, utterly disgusting if true.
Posts: 2614 | From: Midlands | Registered: Jul 2005
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I think you can still buy an Irish car bomb, Guinness with whisky and Bailey's dropped into it. Kind of black humour, I guess.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I think you can still buy an Irish car bomb, Guinness with whisky and Bailey's dropped into it. Kind of black humour, I guess.
Not if you've seen the consequences. It's like walking into a bar and saying please can I have two glasses of cancer.
Posts: 2614 | From: Midlands | Registered: Jul 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Black humour's one thing, if you're in the situation. You had to, it was a way of coping.
But if you're not here, and never have been, then it's a bit of a wank.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Is that correct that the US was 'cool' about collections of money for terrorism? I knew that there were such collections, but didn't know about the coolness. You mean that that they didn't issue warnings and so on?
The US knew full well that NORAID was funding the IRA - NORAID were forced to state as much on their financial returns after a court case in the US. The collections and the funding of the IRA continued.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I do wish, ever so much, that the recent events of my dear city would not become an instance for patronizing sermons. How I do wish it!
As you're discovering your dear city is public property, and when things like this happen to it, it's fair game for anyone and everyone. My dear city - and country - was a permanent instance for all such kinds of abuse, ignorance and misguided philanthropy (see up-thread reference to IRA foreign collections) for nearly 40 years. Hopefully, you won't have to learn how to live with it as 'normal', and the 'Boston Bombings' will just be another tragic but isolated episode of what doesn't usually happen in your part of the world.
If you wish for me to be more familiar with the experience, do have the courage to say so plainly instead of putting on a cowardly show of wishing otherwise.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Is that correct that the US was 'cool' about collections of money for terrorism? I knew that there were such collections, but didn't know about the coolness. You mean that that they didn't issue warnings and so on?
The US knew full well that NORAID was funding the IRA - NORAID were forced to state as much on their financial returns after a court case in the US. The collections and the funding of the IRA continued.
Your argument is incoherent. According to Wikipedia NORAID was forced to list the Provisional IRA as it's "foreign principal" by a US court at the urging of the US Department of Justice, so it hardly makes sense to use this as evidence both of NORAID funding of the IRA (which it isn't) and of official US acquiescence in such funding, particularly in light of many gunrunning investigations and convictions by US law enforcement.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Not to mention the fact that the victims were all either not alive, or children during all that. So if you feel schadenfreude over this because the Boston tribe indirectly harmed your tribe a few decades ago, you might want to come to terms with the fact that you are a cold-hearted savage.
[ 21. April 2013, 16:52: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Not sure who the Schadenfreude comment is addressed to, but that's not my take on it. I see it as a comment on the various diasporas. Thus the Irish diaspora in part sent money to the IRA; the Muslim diaspora seem in part compelled to actually do the bombing themselves.
[ 21. April 2013, 16:59: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
The way I'm reading it, several posters have shown up to say they don't feel too bad about people getting their limbs blown off in our city because 20-30 years ago some Irish people here raised money for people in Northern Ireland to murder other people in Northern Ireland. That'll learn us to live in the same city as people who supported terrorists!
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The way I'm reading it, several posters have shown up to say they don't feel too bad about people getting their limbs blown off in our city because 20-30 years ago some Irish people here raised money for people in Northern Ireland to murder other people in Northern Ireland. That'll learn us to live in the same city as people who supported terrorists!
If it's good enough for that logic to be applied to civilians living in Iraq...
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Especially considering that competitors come from all over the world for the marathon. Who knows where the injured are from?
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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