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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: A right to know about a persons gender history?
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
A person's preference for, or against, red-haired people. Tell me how that is about procreation.
Or preferring blondes? Or..... You get the picture. Many things which have nothing to do with procreation get engines running.
Well, if preferences are nicely spread out, it means everyone will find a mate, hence more babies!
Having said that, studies have shown that certain 'types' are more desirable than others. Colonialisation and globalisation have created a certain worldwide 'standard' of beauty that many aspire to, consciously or otherwise. Transgendered people are influenced by such standards as well.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Having said that, studies have shown that certain 'types' are more desirable than others. Colonialisation and globalisation have created a certain worldwide 'standard' of beauty that many aspire to, consciously or otherwise. Transgendered people are influenced by such standards as well.
But the current "standard of beauty" in the United States, at least, is a level of thinness that is associated with low or entirely suppressed ovulation, and hence exactly contrary to reproductive desirability.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
A "standard of beauty" is mostly a fiction invented by fashion magazines, though. Do these waif-like creatures turn the heads of males?
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Having said that, studies have shown that certain 'types' are more desirable than others. Colonialisation and globalisation have created a certain worldwide 'standard' of beauty that many aspire to, consciously or otherwise. Transgendered people are influenced by such standards as well.
But the current "standard of beauty" in the United States, at least, is a level of thinness that is associated with low or entirely suppressed ovulation, and hence exactly contrary to reproductive desirability.
And yet, as far as we foreigners are concerned, most Americans have a far more comfortable relationship with chubbiness than is found in many other countries. Maybe the extreme thinness is a class thing? Maybe it's a psychological response to a world in which educated people have become genuinely scared of raising children? There may be a struggle going on between the impulse to reproduce and a fear of the future. Perhaps poor people don't fear the future so much since the present is already tough for them, and they have little to lose.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
And yet, as far as we foreigners are concerned, most Americans have a far more comfortable relationship with chubbiness than is found in many other countries. Maybe the extreme thinness is a class thing?
No, I'm pretty sure its something invented and perpetuated by the fashion industry rather than a class thing.
Making an argument based on the sorts of figures fashion models have is rather silly imo.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
As is procreation being the only relevant driver of attraction.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
And yet, as far as we foreigners are concerned, most Americans have a far more comfortable relationship with chubbiness than is found in many other countries. Maybe the extreme thinness is a class thing?
No, I'm pretty sure its something invented and perpetuated by the fashion industry rather than a class thing.
Making an argument based on the sorts of figures fashion models have is rather silly imo.
I wasn't thinking about extreme thinness, to be honest; someone else brought that into the conversation. Yet thinness as desirable has exported itself across the world.
Black women have have certainly found that Western ideals of beauty have been applied to them. If they want to be taken seriously they almost always have to straighten their hair (or at any rate, they feel as if they have to). Not to do so it to be 'making a point'. Some feel that the requirements of thinness (not extreme thinness) compete with the more 'traditional' preference in black (i.e. African and diasporic African)communities for women to be curvaceous.
Then, above and beyond thinness and straight hair, there's the widespread appeal of light (or, of course, white) skin, especially as a mark of feminine beauty. This owes little to 'fashion models', as it predates them by some way. Read Frantz Fanon's 'Black Skin, White Masks' if you've never come across this idea before.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
And yet, as far as we foreigners are concerned, most Americans have a far more comfortable relationship with chubbiness than is found in many other countries.
Your view is not terribly nuanced, then. Yeah we're a fat nation, but we also try to brainwash our women into hating their bodies and doing all sorts of unhealthy things to look like the photoshopped, impossibly-skinny (literally impossibly skinny) models that are presented on magazine covers and runways and such. When someone talks about a "standard" of beauty, unless they're using words in a way I'm not familiar with, they are talking about what society holds up as the ideal, not what society actually produces.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
And on that note-- pardon my bluntness, but then again why not? --when you walk out in the real world, you see plenty of evidence that people who don't even come close to the "ideal," whatever the hell it is, are out there fucking away like bunnies, regardless of what part of the continuum they have been relegated to. There are stunningly attractive men that have chosen rather plain women, there are stunningly beautiful women who have chosen butt ugly men. All kinds of less than perfect folk are out there falling madly in love and fucking merrily away, so the visual doesn't answer everything.
You know why? Because while physical cues enter into how people become attracted to each other, a whole lotta other things do, too.(Was it Franklin who commented that very often what isn't so pleasing to the eye is pleasing to the touch?)
The media sells us on an image-- it has to. That's all it's got. You can't smell, taste, touch something on TV, in film, or on the web. You can't make genuine eye contact with someone on these media, and you can't even really get an authentic read on the timbre of their voice, even with the best audio we got.
To relate this to the OP- Pair-bonding is not just about selecting the perfect genetic candidate, ti is about sorting out whether or not you will get along with someone, and the brain is constructed such that it needs multi-sensory input to figure that out. Foreplay is not just about arousal, it's about learning. Figuring the other person out.
Take kissing-- I read something recently saying scientists haven't really figured out why we do it, but they figure it has something to do with nursing. As someone schooled in "ages and stages" I have a different theory. Kissing takes us back to the oral stage, sure-- but in the oral stage,we weren't just nursing, we were learning about everything via our mouths. The entire world was coming to us through lips and tongue, because aside from the erogenous zones, lips and tongue are the most sensitive areas of our body. They give the most neurological information. Even as adults, they do.
So, kissing isn't just an acting out of infantile hunger gratification, it's a return to the most intimate way of learning-- and when we kiss, what we get is a little snapshot of the emotional/ sexual character of the person-their rhythms, their preferences, comfort level, initiative, fun- quotient...
Sorry, my mind wandered.
Anyway, to the OP- I am in favor of transgendered folk being open about their situation to partners--indeed, to everyone-- as soon as comfortably possible, only because life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you. And pray God you will run into people who aren't into all the algebraic rules of attraction above, but are open to letting their libido surprise them.
[ 19. April 2013, 05:35: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
So, kissing isn't just an acting out of infantile hunger gratification, it's a return to the most intimate way of learning-- and when we kiss, what we get is a little snapshot of the emotional/ sexual character of the person-their rhythms, their preferences, comfort level, initiative, fun- quotient...
I agree. Never did care for the Freudian rubbish.
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you.
Amen.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I am in favor of transgendered folk being open about their situation to partners--indeed, to everyone-- as soon as comfortably possible, only because life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you. And pray God you will run into people who aren't into all the algebraic rules of attraction above, but are open to letting their libido surprise them.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
As is procreation being the only relevant driver of attraction.
At this point I have to consider myself totally baffled. Who is arguing that? I understood IngoB to be making the argument that these things are oriented towards procreation. To say that procreation is the only relevant driver is to get your vectors pointing the wrong way round.
[ 19. April 2013, 10:54: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Kelly Alves: only because life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you.
Not wanting to have sex with someone = not being able to deal with someone?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I'm sorry, I wanted to reply to this some more, because I think it's utter bullshit:
quote:
Kelly Alves: Anyway, to the OP- I am in favor of transgendered folk being open about their situation to partners--indeed, to everyone-- as soon as comfortably possible, only because life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you. And pray God you will run into people who aren't into all the algebraic rules of attraction above, but are open to letting their libido surprise them.
I agree with you in that I hope that every transgender person who wants to find somebody to share there life with will be succesful in doing so.
But in your post, you seem to pose the ideal that everyone should be completely open to 'let their libido be surprised', by anyone without any restriction, otherwise they aren't able to 'deal' with some people because they're into 'all the algebraic rules of attraction'.
I think that there are no people at all who match this description you're giving here. George Michael might come close, but I'm sure that even he has some sexual preferences.
I don't know much about you, besides that you're a female living somewhere in the West of the US, but let me try to come up with an example.
Suppose there is a middle-aged lady working at the counter of the coffeeshop where you come sometimes for breakfast. She doesn't have a very high IQ, but she's quite sympathetic and always greets you when you come in. She spends most of her free time watching TV, and sometimes she repeats the latest headlines of Fox News to you. She has a bit of limp and sometimes she coughs a bit because of smoking, but otherwise she is reasonably healthy.
Would you be able to see this person as a potential romantic partner? Otherwise, you have no business at all taking the higher ground here, by saying that I wouldn't be able to 'deal' with transgender people because I don't see them as potential romantic/sexual partners.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I did not read Kelly's post as everyone should be open to anything. Only the hope for the transgendered be able to find partners who are open and they should not waste time chasing those who are not.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
LeRoc
The real issue is that if you fancy them before you discover they are transgendered, and don't afterwards, what's caused your change of heart?
Doublethink argued, rightly in my view, that it really is the sort of information you need to disclose in advance. Particularly if "no surgery yet".
And then there's the other dimension about which frankly I know nothing; the social politics and manners of casual sex.
There's some confusion on this thread between disclosure on the way to a serious relationship (where everyone seems to be saying 'be upfront in advance') and disclosure on the way to a (for want of a better phrase) recreational encounter. Since that's not a "market" I've ever been in or ever wanted to be in, I'll leave comments about that scenario to others.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Barnabas62: LeRoc
The real issue is that if you fancy them before you discover they are transgendered, and don't afterwards, what's caused your change of heart?
I think I already answered this a couple of times on this thread. But in the way Kelly's post is worded, it strongly suggests that people who wouldn't be interested in having a sexual/romantic relationship with a transgender person (whether they know the other person is a transgender or not, in fact her wording suggests the former) are closed and algebraic and can't deal with people who are different from themselves. I strongly disagree with this view.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
But FFS, none of this is rational, in any case, is it? You can't rationalize about why you fancy tall red-heads, or feel disappointed when the latest one turns out to have dyed hair, or a wig, or freckles. Are we supposed to provide rational reasons for attraction or non-attraction? That is bizarre.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
And then there's the other dimension about which frankly I know nothing; the social politics and manners of casual sex.
Nobody does. Which is another practical reason why casual sex is not necessarily a great idea.
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
But FFS, none of this is rational, in any case, is it?
Rational? Ooh, hadn't added that into the equation. Hmmm, objective over subjective multiplied by innate over reasoned times the square of paradigm shift.....hang on, I can work it out....if we then factor in......
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
lilBuddha: Nobody does. Which is another practical reason why casual sex is not necessarily a great idea.
I disagree. Surely, casual sex isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I disagree that there aren't any moral rules in this case, or that they aren't knowable.
For myself, honesty, trust and respect are of crucial importance when it comes to casual sex. Of course, these values have different applications in this case than within a long-term relationship, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there.
For example, I would never make another person believe that I was interested in a long-time relationship if I were only interested in getting them in the sack and then leaving them. I would be open about the fact that to me it would be just casual sex, and then the other person can take it or leave it. This kind of honesty is one example of a moral rule that exists with regard to casual sex.
There are probably other moral rules, but honesty is surely one of the most important. Which is another reason why I think that no-one should hide that they're a transgender.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Morals are subjective and plastic.
But, I believe B62 was speaking of social politics. And those can be vary convoluted and not everyone is using the same rulebook.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
lilBuddha: But, I believe B62 was speaking of social politics. And those can be vary convoluted and not everyone is using the same rulebook.
I don't know very well what 'social politics' means in this context.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
But the current "standard of beauty" in the United States, at least, is a level of thinness that is associated with low or entirely suppressed ovulation, and hence exactly contrary to reproductive desirability.
In fashion magazines and celebrity TV shows, yes. I suspect that body-shape in porn mags and websites targeted at men is much more variable than in fashion media targeted at women. Though I can;t say I've ever done any quantitative research.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I did not read Kelly's post as everyone should be open to anything. Only the hope for the transgendered be able to find partners who are open and they should not waste time chasing those who are not.
Exactly. I'm just saying some surprising people might not have a problem with it.
I think a more mundane libido surprise would be "Gee, this person is perfectly ordinary-looking, and I am still wildly attracted to them!" (It happens. Fellini was dating fashion models before he fell all over Guilieta Massina. When his buddies ribbed him for dating her, he said, "She makes me laugh." Gene Wilder was asked why he didn't' marry "the hot chick" in "Woman in Red" and he cocked an eyebrow at the asshole who asked the question and said, "I did.." Some people are more open than others to let sources other than the media and their mates tell them what to look for. Best source of all is yourself.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Kelly Alves: only because life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you.
Not wanting to have sex with someone = not being able to deal with someone?
Sexually. Yes. Why waste the time? I mean, we are discussing a transgendered person looking for a sexual partner, right?
[ 19. April 2013, 17:30: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Kelly Alves: Sexually. Yes. Why waste the time? I mean, we are discussing a transgendered person looking for a sexual partner, right?
Hm, your formulation wasn't exactly clear before, but ok. Maybe I've been reading more into your post than there was.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I thought the topic was more than just sex. I had thought it included, but went beyond.
Just shows that a percentage of these threads is trapped within the confines of our skulls.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Kelly Alves: only because life is too short to deal with people who can't deal with you.
Not wanting to have sex with someone = not being able to deal with someone?
Sexually. Yes. Why waste the time? I mean, we are discussing a transgendered person looking for a sexual partner, right?
Hm. If that's what "deal with" means in both halves of your sentence, though, it sounds like advising transgendered people to stop being attracted to people who aren't attracted to them, which is a little problematic for those who consider their attractions not to be under conscious control.
(Advice not to pursue the unattracted seems eminently sensible, but no longer pursuing isn't the same thing as no longer feeling attracted.)
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Suppose there is a middle-aged lady working at the counter of the coffeeshop where you come sometimes for breakfast. She doesn't have a very high IQ, but she's quite sympathetic and always greets you when you come in. She spends most of her free time watching TV, and sometimes she repeats the latest headlines of Fox News to you. She has a bit of limp and sometimes she coughs a bit because of smoking, but otherwise she is reasonably healthy.
(This may be the optimum time in my life to answer this question... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
Based on the above-- and adding none of the sensory cues I specifically mentioned above-- which would be a certain level of physical attraction[I personally prefer-- erm-- unique attractiveness over ideal], eye contact, timbre of voice, etc.-- the only thing that would theoretically put me off would be the IQ (somewhat) and the Fox news (BIGTIME.)The limp and the age would not. The smoking wouldn't either (I actually kind of like how smokers taste.)The gender-- well, I have experienced a few untested libido-surprises, let's say.
If the middle sentence was more like "She watches Mythbusters and The Daily Show and knows everything there is to know about brine shrimp", and there were indeed some crazy sparks flying, I would at least give it some solid thought.
Otherwise, full disclosure works both ways, and me saying,"You know, I sense a connection but I have traditionally stuck with men" is just as important as someone saying "I am trans." I could just as easily say, "There are crazy sparks flying but I can't deal with the Fox News thing, at all." Nobody of any persuasion likes to get the "let's be friends" talk, but sometimes you have to give it.
[ 19. April 2013, 18:14: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
lilBuddha: But, I believe B62 was speaking of social politics. And those can be vary convoluted and not everyone is using the same rulebook.
I don't know very well what 'social politics' means in this context.
Well, attempting to explain my understanding, casual sex isn't always truly casual. In theory, casual sex is simply that. In practice, not every participant views it so. There can be expectations, jealousies. There is reaction of one's social circles, etc. In short, unless it is a one time, not see again type of experience, it is a relationship of some sort.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
(Advice not to pursue the unattracted seems eminently sensible, but no longer pursuing isn't the same thing as no longer feeling attracted.)
Yeah that's true,and if it came off that flip, I didn't mean it that way. I was thinking more of the tortured "when do I say it" wait.. IMO it's better to get that over with.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
lilBuddha: But, I believe B62 was speaking of social politics. And those can be vary convoluted and not everyone is using the same rulebook.
I don't know very well what 'social politics' means in this context.
Well, attempting to explain my understanding, casual sex isn't always truly casual. In theory, casual sex is simply that. In practice, not every participant views it so. There can be expectations, jealousies. There is reaction of one's social circles, etc. In short, unless it is a one time, not see again type of experience, it is a relationship of some sort.
That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. In my innocence ...
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Kelly Alves: the only thing that would theoretically put me off would be the IQ (somewhat) and the Fox news (BIGTIME.)
(When I was composing this paragraph, I was deperately looking for things that would turn you off, based on the little things I might know about you from your posting on the Ship. I had already finished this paragraph and was going to hit 'Add reply' when I had the brilliant thought: put in Fox News! I'm glad I didn't miss with this one.)
quote:
Kelly Alves: Otherwise, full disclosure works both ways, and me saying,"You know, I sense a connection but I have traditionally stuck with men" is just as important as someone saying "I am trans." I could just as easily say, "There are crazy sparks flying but I can't deal with the Fox News thing, at all." Nobody of any persuasion likes to get the "let's be friends" talk, but sometimes you have to give it.
With this I agree. I have receieved the 'let's be friends' line on occasions and it's a definite 'ouch' moment, but sometimes it's the best answer. You don't have to be honest in all details when you're not entering a relationship.
quote:
lilBuddha: Well, attempting to explain my understanding, casual sex isn't always truly casual. In theory, casual sex is simply that. In practice, not every participant views it so. There can be expectations, jealousies. There is reaction of one's social circles, etc.
I agree that with casual sex there are some 'unknown variables' involved (but isn't this also the case with long-term relationships?) and you can't rule out every negative side- or after-effect. But it's exactly because of this that I feel that honesty is important.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Kelly Alves: the only thing that would theoretically put me off would be the IQ (somewhat) and the Fox news (BIGTIME.)
(When I was composing this paragraph, I was deperately looking for things that would turn you off, based on the little things I might know about you from your posting on the Ship. I had already finished this paragraph and was going to hit 'Add reply' when I had the brilliant thought: put in Fox News! I'm glad I didn't miss with this one.)
Good call.
.. but there were quite a few thing you thought might matter that didn't, right?
I will also add (and please take this in only the academic way in which we were discussing the matter) when it hit me that you were carefully thinking about what might or might not put me off, my interest level really sparked-- in a way that might provoke me to hand over my phone number, in real life. Somebody showing that much insight into me? Wow!
[ 19. April 2013, 18:47: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Kelly Alves: .. but there were quite a few thing you thought might matter that didn't, right?
I admit that I had put some money on the smoking thing. I'm actually a bit disappointed that that didn't get through.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
( )
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
LeRoc,
Where Kelly lives, about the only thing that would work is the Fox News type of slur.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Zaftig, baby. I ain't nothing but zaftig.
What does zaftig mean please? Is it a real word that isn't used round here, or a made up one?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I was thinking this exchange over, and I realized I wasn't making my case by only focusing on the potentially off-putting, so:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Suppose there is a middle-aged lady working at the counter of the coffeeshop where you come sometimes for breakfast. She doesn't have a very high IQ, but she's quite sympathetic and always greets you when you come in. She spends most of her free time watching TV, and sometimes she repeats the latest headlines of Fox News to you. She has a bit of limp and sometimes she coughs a bit because of smoking, but otherwise she is reasonably healthy.
OK, first off-- she's a waitress. My grandma was a waitress, as were a few of my cousins and my stepsis. I will tend to have friendly feelings toward a waitress. They will have to work at proving to me they are an asshole, if they are.
She is friendly and sympathetic-- full disclosure: I come from a not- very- nurturing background, so someone of either gender who exhibits nurturing qualities will make me fall at their feet-- not necessarily in a sexual way, but it would definitely loosen me up. I might even forget the Fox thing and become passionately attracted to her as potential friend material, which is nothing to sniff at. If there was a "spark",and the above, I might stupidily ignore the Fox thing. Which is why we need to not let the libido fully reign in these things.
The one thing that kind of jumps out at me is the limp-- why the hell would I fault someone for a limp? Shit happens, people develop limps. I guess I can see it making a difference to some folk but it just wouldn't, for me.
I use myself as a case study to point out another area that fosters attraction-- a person's psychosexual background. For good or ill.
Back to my "algebra" snark-- this is Purg so if I am going to snark, I better unpack it, so sorry for that-- I guess I was looking at some of the biology based arguments as kind of like this
A= 8/d+ 76(r) -xyz/54 * f
And what I was seeing was "let d equal visual fertility cues and z equal gender definition cues."
...
...
And... what about all those other letters?
And IMO, if you intergrate the possiblilty of a person having a transcendant soul, you get a lot more letters. That entails really listening to your own soul above all else, because that, if you will, is where God speaks to you.
And God may just like surprises. Just to shake folk up.
To use my current favorite metaphor, why look at the world with the visual spectrum of a cocker spaniel when you can look at the world with a visual spectrum of a mantis shrimp? (Yes, this is hyperbole. But you know what I mean.)
[ 19. April 2013, 21:17: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Zaftig, baby. I ain't nothing but zaftig.
What does zaftig mean please? Is it a real word that isn't used round here, or a made up one?
If only there were some easy way to find out...
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Zaftig, baby. I ain't nothing but zaftig.
What does zaftig mean please? Is it a real word that isn't used round here, or a made up one?
Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Did proctor gamble in the glade
Zaftig is a similar condition.
Can we go back a few steps to a question which has yet to be answered. Several of us have made it clear that we consider transwomen as still male from the point of view of jumping into bed. How would a lesbian consider them, and how would a gay man consider a transman.
To some extent, this goes to the experience related above, where a married man had divorced his wife and become a transwoman, only now to think she was a lesbian. She had been sufficiently sexually attracted to women years before to marry one and was still sexually attracted to them.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Zaftig, baby. I ain't nothing but zaftig.
What does zaftig mean please? Is it a real word that isn't used round here, or a made up one?
If only there were some easy way to find out...
No need to be quite so sarky. Despite those links, it obviously expresses something more than just 'fat'. I'm still not sure I get the original reference.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I fancy Little Buttercup was zaftig.
...a plump and pleasing person...
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Zaftig, baby. I ain't nothing but zaftig.
What does zaftig mean please? Is it a real word that isn't used round here, or a made up one?
If only there were some easy way to find out...
I love this Dave W - how did you do it? Could you google it for me? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
{google tangent}
Boogie and others, it's easy. Here's the link address Dave used
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=zaftig
lmgtfy stands for "let me google that for you" and you just add the word you want after the /?q=
[ 20. April 2013, 09:27: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
Or, even more simply:
- Go to lmgtfy.com
- Type text into the mock-Google search box
- Hit one of the mock-Google buttons ("Google Search" or "I'm Feeling Lucky"
The website automatically creates a link you can copy and paste, so you don't have to remember the /q= part yourself.
[ 20. April 2013, 13:06: Message edited by: Dave W. ]
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Can we go back a few steps to a question which has yet to be answered. Several of us have made it clear that we consider transwomen as still male from the point of view of jumping into bed. How would a lesbian consider them, and how would a gay man consider a transman.
I fail to see why sexuality would be a determining factor in how one would view a transgender person.
Sexuality is about which gender you find attractive. Transgender is about questions of gender identity. They are two completely independent questions.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Kelly Alves: And God may just like surprises. Just to shake folk up.
Of course, surprises happen. My mother always thought she liked brown-eyed, dark-haired men, until she met my blue-eyed, white-haired father. Our sexual preference aren't cast in stone, at least not all aspects of them.
But this isn't limitless either. I was walking through the city I live in, and I saw plenty of people for which there exists no plausible scenario in which they would become romantic interests. We may be surprised by our libido, but that doesn't mean that anything goes. It is this that I wanted to say with my example (no need to overanalyze it).
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Well, part of the idea behind a "surprise" is "doesn't happen often, right?
IOW, I agree.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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